Why not bring up Jason Kipnis as the LF?

[statmasta]

The Indians have done it before with a player that had no experience in the outfield. Why can't we do it with Kipnis?

First, the obvious: everybody knows Kipnis was a centerfielder in college. He has the experience playing in the outfield.

Second, and more importantly, there's a precedent. Richie Sexson, a first baseman his entire life, moved from first to left field so he could get major league playing time early in his career. Remember that? 6'7" Big Sexy manning left field? He played in 109 games as a left fielder. That experiment worked out pretty well to give the offense some extra pop. So if god damn Richie Sexson of all people, a monstrous, awkward freakazoid could be moved to left field to get to the major leagues, why can't we move an athletic former OF to left field to get him to the majors?

Seriously, if Richie Sexson could do it, there's no reason Kipnis cannot.

[WiscTribeFan]

Because Kipnis can't hit the ball 600 feet like Sexson could.

[peeker643]

I'm all for moving Kipnis, Phelps and Chisenhall as far away from the infield as humanly possible.

Unless it's an infield in Akron and only then provided I'm not seated behind first base.

[Bigfist]

In a way, I agree with statmasta. I would guess Kipnis could play an acceptable LF. But gosh...what is the evidence he can hit better than Buck? I think we all would agree that AAA stats may not mean much at the major league level. I think Tony has also said the brass have no intention of doing this.

But, sure...if Sexson and Garko can play the OF (remember that one?), so can Kipnis.

[statmasta]

Because Kipnis can't hit the ball 600 feet like Sexson could.

true, true

but he'd be an offense upgrade nonetheless, no?

[statmasta]

I'm all for moving Kipnis, Phelps and Chisenhall as far away from the infield as humanly possible.

Unless it's an infield in Akron and only then provided I'm not seated behind first base.

ROFL

[peeker643]

Because Kipnis can't hit the ball 600 feet like Sexson could.

true, true

but he'd be an offense upgrade nonetheless, no?

We don't know that. You can argue he might never be worse than what they have but we don't know he can hit at the major league level.

Given the quality of play out there this season there's a pretty good chance he wouldn't be worse. But that doesn't mean he'd be better.

They need a proven ML bat though.

[WiscTribeFan]

Because Kipnis can't hit the ball 600 feet like Sexson could.

true, true

but he'd be an offense upgrade nonetheless, no?

Hard to say. Asking a kid to be introduced to the majors by playing a position he hasn't played in years, all while trying to hit major league pitching WHILE in a pennant race might be asking a lot of him.

Phelps was playing a position he'd played quite a bit and had his lunch handed to him at the dish.

This thread had me looking at Sexson's career numbers. Man that dude had some power.

[statmasta]

Because Kipnis can't hit the ball 600 feet like Sexson could.

true, true

but he'd be an offense upgrade nonetheless, no?

We don't know that. You can argue he might never be worse than what they have but we don't know he can hit at the major league level.

Given the quality of play out there this season there's a pretty good chance he wouldn't be worse. But that doesn't mean he'd be better.

They need a proven ML bat though.

Asdrubal Cabrera was even less proven than Kipnis (IIRC, he was rushed through 9 games in Triple-A Buffalo before getting the call to the bigs)

And yet he provided a big time offensive spark in 2007. Sure, your first priority would be a proven MLB bat, but that may not happen.

[statmasta]

Because Kipnis can't hit the ball 600 feet like Sexson could.

true, true

but he'd be an offense upgrade nonetheless, no?

Hard to say. Asking a kid to be introduced to the majors by playing a position he hasn't played in years, all while trying to hit major league pitching WHILE in a pennant race might be asking a lot of him.

Phelps was playing a position he'd played quite a bit and had his lunch handed to him at the dish.

This thread had me looking at Sexson's career numbers. Man that dude had some power.

Phelps also sucks. Jason Kipnis is far more talented than Phelps is. Phelps never put up good numbers until he got to the hitters' paradise that is Huntington Park.

[dazindiansfanuk]

There is 100% no chance Kip is coming up to play the OF.

They're not going to risk his development by moving the guy around.

The fact of the matter is, this is the guy they see as the 2Bman of the future. He's a bit green defensively there right now but, for the most part, his conversion has gone pretty well, but there's still some work to do. He can't do that by playing LF!

Not happening.

[statmasta]

There is 100% no chance Kip is coming up to play the OF.

They're not going to risk his development by moving the guy around.

The fact of the matter is, this is the guy they see as the 2Bman of the future. He's a bit green defensively there right now but, for the most part, his conversion has gone pretty well, but there's still some work to do. He can't do that by playing LF!

Not happening.

He'll have the entire off-season to work. We're trying to win.

[WiscTribeFan]

Phelps also sucks. Jason Kipnis is far more talented than Phelps is. Phelps never put up good numbers until he got to the hitters' paradise that is Huntington Park.

But their numbers there are almost identical. Why assume one would transition better than the other?

[statmasta]

Phelps also sucks. Jason Kipnis is far more talented than Phelps is. Phelps never put up good numbers until he got to the hitters' paradise that is Huntington Park.

But their numbers there are almost identical. Why assume one would transition better than the other?

Check out their numbers before Triple-A. Phelps is a product of Huntington Park, it's a hitters' paradise.

Kipnis has a career .877 OPS. Phelps has a career .802 OPS in the minors. Kipnis is simply more talented.

He may not transition well, but I think he's far more likely to be a productive MLB hitter right away than Phelps was.

[statmasta]

Let me make myself clear.

I'm not saying we should do it. That's why I worded it as a question. I just think it's an interesting debate. I don't know if we should.

[gotribe31]

There is 100% no chance Kip is coming up to play the OF.

They're not going to risk his development by moving the guy around.

The fact of the matter is, this is the guy they see as the 2Bman of the future. He's a bit green defensively there right now but, for the most part, his conversion has gone pretty well, but there's still some work to do. He can't do that by playing LF!

Not happening.

He'll have the entire off-season to work. We're trying to win.

Any offensive upgrade he brings from Buck etc wouldn't be worth the lost developmental time from jerking him around from INF to OF. If you want to bring him up and have him play 2B over the OC, I'm all for it. But I don't see any reason to have next year's opening day 2B come up and play LF right now.

[statmasta]

There is 100% no chance Kip is coming up to play the OF.

They're not going to risk his development by moving the guy around.

The fact of the matter is, this is the guy they see as the 2Bman of the future. He's a bit green defensively there right now but, for the most part, his conversion has gone pretty well, but there's still some work to do. He can't do that by playing LF!

Not happening.

He'll have the entire off-season to work. We're trying to win.

Any offensive upgrade he brings from Buck etc wouldn't be worth the lost developmental time from jerking him around from INF to OF. If you want to bring him up and have him play 2B over the OC, I'm all for it. But I don't see any reason to have next year's opening day 2B come up and play LF right now.

I don't like the phrase "jerking him around". It's not like we're trying to make him some super-utility player. We'd be moving him one time to left field. It's not complicated. Playing left field doesn't make you forget how to play another position.

Have to do what's best for the team. If that's moving Kipnis to left, then so be it. If that's keeping Kipnis at second, that's fine. When you're in contention, you're #1 priority shouldn't be individuals. It has to be the team.

[gotribe31]

There is 100% no chance Kip is coming up to play the OF.

They're not going to risk his development by moving the guy around.

The fact of the matter is, this is the guy they see as the 2Bman of the future. He's a bit green defensively there right now but, for the most part, his conversion has gone pretty well, but there's still some work to do. He can't do that by playing LF!

Not happening.

He'll have the entire off-season to work. We're trying to win.

Any offensive upgrade he brings from Buck etc wouldn't be worth the lost developmental time from jerking him around from INF to OF. If you want to bring him up and have him play 2B over the OC, I'm all for it. But I don't see any reason to have next year's opening day 2B come up and play LF right now.

I don't like the phrase "jerking him around". It's not like we're trying to make him some super-utility player. We'd be moving him one time to left field. It's not complicated. Playing left field doesn't make you forget how to play another position.

Have to do what's best for the team. If that's moving Kipnis to left, then so be it. If that's keeping Kipnis at second, that's fine. When you're in contention, you're #1 priority shouldn't be individuals. It has to be the team.

Put it this way; every inning he plays in LF is an inning he doesn't play at 2B. The best thing for the team (in my opinion) is for him to continue to develop as a 2B and be at the very least next year's opening day 2B if not called up this year. I don't see any evidence that he would step in from day 1 and be a quality major league OF at the plate and in the field.

I'm not saying keep Kip at 2B because he's on my fantasty team, so I'm not sure I get your best for the team/best for the individual paragraph.

[scrambler]

It's time to go full bore on Kearns right now. He had a prlonged hot streak last year for a month or so. He's on it right now. It won't continue, but ride him for a few weeks while he's smoking!! (I'm pretty serious about this actually...guy hit really well for a period last year so much the Yanks wanted him...he's hitting right now. go with it,)

[Dellucci TailGator]

If they are staying pat, they need to decide on Kearns or Buck. Give the guy every day at bats and live with that decision. Kearns is not going to hit if he's not in the line-up every day. Buck probably isn't either.

I'd bet on Kearns right now. At least amidst all his horrible at-bats, you'll get some home runs out of it.

[motherscratcher]

Kipnis is obviously our future 2B and I think it's a bad idea to move him, even for half of a season. Right now his offensive production (assuming it translates) would be good for someone playing second, but not as good for an outfielder.

I'm not sure I'm on board with Peeks idea of turning the entire farm system into a bunch of outfielders. It would be like those kids wandering around the outfield during the home run derby. Maybe if you let Tomlin start every game.

What would it cost to rent Beltran?

[peeker643]

Kipnis is obviously our future 2B and I think it's a bad idea to move him, even for half of a season. Right now his offensive production (assuming it translates) would be good for someone playing second, but not as good for an outfielder.

I'm not sure I'm on board with Peeks idea of turning the entire farm system into a bunch of outfielders. It would be like those kids wandering around the outfield during the home run derby. Maybe if you let Tomlin start every game.

What would it cost to rent Beltran?

Not the entire farm system you tool. Just the infielders. Except the catchers. Be a mess chasing every pitch to the backstop.

Unless Talbot is pitching. He can't get anything past a hitter.

ESPN scroll says Mets would agree to paying the Beltran salary for whomever deals for him.

[statmasta]

Kipnis is obviously our future 2B and I think it's a bad idea to move him, even for half of a season. Right now his offensive production (assuming it translates) would be good for someone playing second, but not as good for an outfielder.

I'm not sure I'm on board with Peeks idea of turning the entire farm system into a bunch of outfielders. It would be like those kids wandering around the outfield during the home run derby. Maybe if you let Tomlin start every game.

What would it cost to rent Beltran?

We shouldn't be looking for "good for an outfielder". We should just be looking for improvement.

Kenny Lofton wasn't good for an outfielder in 2007, yet he was still a big improvement offensively when we dealt for him.

[Pressrunnr]

I kind of like that idea especially if the cost for an established OF, like Ludwick or Beltran is, essentially, a prospect of Kipinis' caliber anyway. If you can pick a guy up for cheaper, great. But otherwise, I don't see that big a problem.

Buddy Bell came up as an outfielder & it didn't seem to hurt his career as a third baseman. I realize the situations aren't identical -- Kirpinis has just switched relatively recently to 2B and in a perfect world the Tribe wouldn't want to slow his development. On the other hand, Bell was just a teen-ager when he came up as an outfielder and again starting off there --aside from the time he fell over the HR fence -- it didn't seem to hurt him all that much. (In fact, had they gotten more for Nettles than they eventually did, one might even say it was a perfect plan.)

[WiscTribeFan]

Kipnis is obviously our future 2B and I think it's a bad idea to move him, even for half of a season. Right now his offensive production (assuming it translates) would be good for someone playing second, but not as good for an outfielder.

I'm not sure I'm on board with Peeks idea of turning the entire farm system into a bunch of outfielders. It would be like those kids wandering around the outfield during the home run derby. Maybe if you let Tomlin start every game.

What would it cost to rent Beltran?

Not the entire farm system you tool. Just the infielders. Except the catchers. Be a mess chasing every pitch to the backstop.

Unless Talbot is pitching. He can't get anything past a hitter.

ESPN scroll says Mets would agree to paying the Beltran salary for whomever deals for him.

I've read that they also want a top prospect back for him if they are picking up the tab on his salary.

[paulcousineau]

According to Heymann, the Indians are one team (the Pirates are the other) in which Beltran is "unlikely to approve a trade to", so the question with him isn't as much prospects or who's picking up the tab...it's whether or not he'd approve a trade here.

The Indians could offer the Mets the whole farm system and offer to pick up his remaining salary (not that they would on either count) and Beltran could simply say no to the deal.