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What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby pup » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:03 pm

skatingtripods wrote:Upton sucks. Unless you mean Justin, in which case I give up Pomeranz and Hagadone for him.


No. BJ.

And he would be our 3rd best hitter and our best OF right away.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:07 pm

pup wrote:And he would be our 3rd best hitter and our best OF right away.


Agree defensively. No desire to give up valuable assets for a guy with a .240 average and 160 K/yr over the last 3 years.

He doesn't make our lineup better to the point where it's worth using Frank Herrmann as a matchup righty.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby swerb » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:20 pm

pup wrote:If they add Mike Morse and fall a couple of games short, you are going to lose the people that still have hope that Antonetti > Shapiro.

Go big (Pence/Upton) or sell.

Buying a mid level bat will have people chanting Dolan is cheap AND Antonetti is an idiot.

And it doesn't matter what joe fan thinks. If they did that deal and Allen Craig becomes the RH corner OF they NEED next season..the same joe fan that returned this year and got pissed off because we traded Joe Smith will come back next year when they are winning.

At the end of the day they need to balance improving their chances this year with the larger goal of staying good for the next 5-6 years.

To go big would mean trading Pomeranz or Chisenhall, which they aren't going to do. They aren't going to deal seven years of controlling Pomeranz for a couple of years of Pence. At least I don't think they'd make that trade.

And they aren't selling. Nor should they. So it's moot.

They're in first place with 60 games left and have the best overall pitching staff in the division. Selling would be defeatist and idiotic given the nature of baseball's playoffs. How hard it is to get in over in the AL ... and how anything can happen when you get in.

I agree with you that fans they may piss off will return if they win next season. But shit ... we got a chance now. Every time this team has had expectations they've fallen on their ass. Eff selling. Eff next year.

I disagree strongly that fans would be more pissed by the add of a middle bat than no move at all.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:25 pm

TribeinLA wrote:Well how about getting Casey Nagy...I mean Charlie Blake back? He could dh vs. LHP's and play 3rd and even some lf. What's he 37? :hide:


Blake may be undergoing necksurgery in the not to distant future. He's back on the DL for the 3rd time this season. He's not going to be an option.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby The Math God » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:37 pm

We might be able to get Pence from Houston for a collection of A and AA prospects. They are awful and it does no good to have our name AAA guys on their team if they are going to still be awful.
I think we have to GO BIG or go home.
We will control Pence beyond this season.
I would rather take the known talent than wait for yet another prospect.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:55 pm

They wont get Pence without having to give up at least one major upper level prospect like Kipnis or White and another guy or without having to give up 5 or 6 double A to low A guys. Im not saying he is worth that but that is what it would take to get him.

The Astros know what they have in Pence and are not just going to give him away for a bunch of crappy guys. 1) They don't have to trade him and 2) If they did trade him, it would be to restock their system so he would go to the highest bidder, which wouldnt be Cleveland, as well it shouldnt be because Hunter Pence is not the difference in making this team a world series contender/winner.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby TribeinLA » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:07 am

I do not understand why some think we'd be sellers. We have nothing to sell and we're in first place and have nothing but prospects and members of our pen to gove up.

The sellers look to be:

Mets
Orioles (way too high of a payroll and they want to lock up Jones and Markakis)
Padres
Twins (and I could be wrong, but with Mauer locked up and causing an awful salary hierarchy that basically won't allow them to become buyers, I would expect them to have to sell 2-3 players)
Astros
Cubs (though they really have nothing to sell)
Nationals
And to a degree, the BlueJays


So, which team provides the best option of us and what we'd have to give. Beltran would be a rental and the Mets would absorb much of his salaray and they want TOP prospects. Who could we give them besides Pomeranz?

Pence is the name that seems to be most popular with most here -- over Ludwick, Beltran, and Morse. With us not picking up Grady's option, is this a kid we'd be willing to sign for a long period of time and become our next highest paid player? I am thinking Houston would go for less than Mets would. Maybe give them Weglarz and Phelps?

I still like Ludwick. Give SD some backend bullpen help which means either Smith or Pestano or Perez and also a good prospect. Maybe McAllister even? :hide:

On the record, I would be willing, if we continue to play well over the next week and a half, to go ahead and offer for Beltran. He'd fit very nicely in the lineup and give Hafner and Santana protection. It may be illogical, but I want to win NOW.

I like Swerb's point. We have to do something to keep the fanbase in a good place with ownership. Plus, the outfield is now very average. The Dolans promised they'd spend at the right time. This looks awfully close to '07 to me when we were just trying to distance ourselves from Det. Sizemore may have been doing poorly, but he's a vet and we need vet bats in this lineup. We have to find a replacement for him. He's likely done for the year even if she comes back. He truly is brittle.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:57 am

TribeinLA wrote:Pence is the name that seems to be most popular with most here -- over Ludwick, Beltran, and Morse. With us not picking up Grady's option, is this a kid we'd be willing to sign for a long period of time and become our next highest paid player? I am thinking Houston would go for less than Mets would. Maybe give them Weglarz and Phelps?


We'd all do that deal, except Houston's GM.

TribeinLA wrote:I still like Ludwick. Give SD some backend bullpen help which means either Smith or Pestano or Perez and also a good prospect. Maybe McAllister even? :hide:


If you called SD and told them you'd give Pestano for Ludwick, he'd be on the next plane to Cleveland. There would be no need to add a player to the deal. He'd serve as the replacement for Bell and Adams and probably would become their closer for the rest of the year. If you look at his numbers, he's actually better than Pure Rage in terms of peripherals. Can he handle the pressure of closing full time is the only unknown.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:05 am

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:They wont get Pence without having to give up at least one major upper level prospect like Kipnis or White and another guy or without having to give up 5 or 6 double A to low A guys. Im not saying he is worth that but that is what it would take to get him.

The Astros know what they have in Pence and are not just going to give him away for a bunch of crappy guys. 1) They don't have to trade him and 2) If they did trade him, it would be to restock their system so he would go to the highest bidder, which wouldnt be Cleveland, as well it shouldnt be because Hunter Pence is not the difference in making this team a world series contender/winner.


Hunter Pence would be one of Cleveland's best offense players on the roster right now. He's basically a tick below Choo in terms of career numbers. A little less pop and doesn't walk quite as much. He would be a huge addition to our offense the rest of the way.

So would Washington's Mike Morse, who homered again yesterday, and is the object of a few people's affection here (he's a solid player who'd help this team, no doubt about it). He's a FA at the end of the season, though.

The key to pushing forward to make over-all improvements. We can't afford Beltan, and probably not Pence, but we can improve the team we have, although Alex White is pretty much untradeable right now.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby paulcousineau » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:32 am

Morse is actually a FA at the end of the 2013 season, but I wanted to pass this along as this is one of the best comments that I've ever seen that puts this time of year into some perspective. Surprisingly, it's on cle.com, but it's the perfect slap at the "I think I figured out a way to get (Fill in the Blank)...and we really wouldn't have to give up that much..."

Based on the comments I've read the past few days, let me throw in some names and trades for the Indians.

o Laporta, Gomaz and Judy to the Red Sox for Adrian Gonzalez. Laporta can play first for them and the Red Sox could always use a few arms.

o Kearns, Valbuena and Scott Barnes to the Cardinals for Albert Pujols. Puhols is injured some but I'd be willing to take a chance on him. He's a free agent at the end of the year, but I'd overpay with these guys because we're making a pennant run.

o Choo, Laporta , Corey Kluber and Justin Germano to Toronto for Jose Bautista and Adam Lind. We trade a RF and1B and get a RF and 1B back. But we give Toronto two good arms so they'll probably do it.

o Mitch Talbot, Travis Buck, Beau Mills and Josh Judy to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw. Kemp is the leader for NL MVP, but he's 26 years old already and the Dodgers would be getting Beau Mills who's having a breakout year in his 3rd or 4th year in AA Akron at age 25. We'd be giving up some good pitching prospects, but Kershaw with his 2.88 ERA, 10-4 record on a bad team, 155 k's and 1.05 WHIP looks like he might be OK. Besides, he's a left handed pitcher which is good, but he's already 23 years-old and it appears he Dodgers are getting tired of waiting for him. And the Dodgers are ready to be fleeced.

o I have some more trades that think will be of benefit to the Indians for now - Prince Fielder for 2 AA 2nd stringers but the Dolan's may be too cheap. Joey Votto and Mike Leake for Jason Knapp. Willing to throw in Austin Kearns if I have to. Lou Marson and the rights to Wes Hodges to Atlanta for Brian McCann. We could move Santana to 1B and then trade Laporta and Gomez to the Astros for Hunter Pence.

Have Andretti give me a call.

That's inspired...
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:34 am

Willing to throw in Austin Kearns if I have to

That's pure gold.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:16 am

Awesome.

And I too wonder why TribeinLa is willing to give up far more for Ludwick than Pence.

I also understand why Pete Franklin rarely took calls from kids and why he preferred a bullet in his ass to trade talk from callers.

I also wonder when people will figure out that for the last 4-5 years the trade deadline has been as much ESPN created hype as the ESPYs.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby swerb » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:46 am

That .... is A Classic. Thanks for posting Paulie.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby paulcousineau » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:03 pm

swerb wrote:That .... is A Classic. Thanks for posting Paulie.

The misspellings are the best as I'm sure they're intentional.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:19 pm

Holy fucking shit. Those trade scenarios are incredible. They have to be a joke, no? I mean what kind of fucktard would think we'd have to give all those studs and the immortal Corey Kluber for Jose Bautista? We'd be getting the short end of that stick Kluber is a LOCK for the Hall Of Fame. Leave it to Shitpiro to give up so much for so little in return. C'mon... These are STARS in the making, what has Bautista ever done? Isn't he a utility guy anyhow?

I sugest we gvie up Tarvis Buc, Astin Kurns, Fatsuo Cramona, Lewis Valbana, Stig Legman, and Andee Matrog 4 Prince Felder, Ryan Brown, Ricki Wooks, and Smerf Todd Grigsby. ITS ALL WIN, FOO.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Pressrunnr » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:49 pm

Holy fucking shit. Those trade scenarios are incredible. They have to be a joke, no? I mean what kind of fucktard would think we'd have to give all those studs and the immortal Corey Kluber for Jose Bautista? We'd be getting the short end of that stick Kluber is a LOCK for the Hall Of Fame. Leave it to Shitpiro to give up so much for so little in return. C'mon... These are STARS in the making, what has Bautista ever done? Isn't he a utility guy anyhow?

I sugest we gvie up Tarvis Buc, Astin Kurns, Fatsuo Cramona, Lewis Valbana, Stig Legman, and Andee Matrog 4 Prince Felder, Ryan Brown, Ricki Wooks, and Smerf Todd Grigsby. ITS ALL WIN, FOO.


I do remember the one offseason thinking that what the Indians really needed was to get a good, ace starting pitcher like Bert Blyleven as well as to rid themselves from a whole lot of junk that had been cluttering up the roster, like Bob Owchinko, Victor Cruz, Rafael Vazquez and Gary Alexander. Would once every 30 years be too much to ask for that type of deal? (Yes, of course it's too much to ask for, but I had to try anyway)
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Symbolic47 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 5:29 pm

Again I would personally consider Josh Willingham the best option. We could probably re sign him, and with the uncertainty with Grady and Choo, with ZERO power bats upcoming besides Weglarz, he would improve the team alot IMO. Hes having a down year with Oakland, but he would immediately become our second best power hitter( maybe first). If need be we could open next season with JW in LF, Brantley in CF and Choo in RF. I really didn't envision Grady being around next season....What Im looking for is a move that would benefit us now AND in the future. Thats the key with our small margin for error and limited resources. Hell I bet Beane would entertain the idea of trading him for Weglarz strait up, as Nick is a Beane type guy with his off the charts walk rate. Plus Weglarz is still an unknown, immense potential, but is always hurt, and has never transferred his power potential in game yet. Just something to put out there. A move I would do in a heartbeat......
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:18 pm

Symbolic47 wrote:Again I would personally consider Josh Willingham the best option. We could probably re sign him, and with the uncertainty with Grady and Choo, with ZERO power bats upcoming besides Weglarz, he would improve the team alot IMO. Hes having a down year with Oakland, but he would immediately become our second best power hitter( maybe first). If need be we could open next season with JW in LF, Brantley in CF and Choo in RF. I really didn't envision Grady being around next season....What Im looking for is a move that would benefit us now AND in the future. Thats the key with our small margin for error and limited resources. Hell I bet Beane would entertain the idea of trading him for Weglarz strait up, as Nick is a Beane type guy with his off the charts walk rate. Plus Weglarz is still an unknown, immense potential, but is always hurt, and has never transferred his power potential in game yet. Just something to put out there. A move I would do in a heartbeat......



Are you Willingham's dad or something? You love that guy. I have never seen such an average player get so much love :cheers:
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:07 pm

JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
Indians working hard on deals for one of Josh Willingham and Ryan Ludwick
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby scott » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:34 pm

skatingtripods wrote:JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
Indians working hard on deals for one of Josh Willingham and Ryan Ludwick


Which of the 8 guests now reading this site is Bowden?
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:46 am

Dnthateonthepronk wrote:Are you Willingham's dad or something? You love that guy. I have never seen such an average player get so much love :cheers:


The scarier thing is that Willingham actually is an upgrade for us in the OF. That's kinda sad.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:08 am

I still believe with all my heart the most reasonable to move to make just might be nuking these message boards.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:13 pm

Here's a new name from SI: Aaron Harang. He's having a revival year down in San Diego and is pitching well even away from the friendly confines. Someone said Kuroda has full no-trade and would never come to Cleveland so Harang might be the next best bet and might not cost very much i.e. not one of White, Pomeranz, Kipinis, Chiz, Hagadone. He doesn't strike out many guys but he's used to being a workhorse from his Cinci days and with so many young guys with possible innings caps, a veteran like Harang wouldn't be too bad an idea.


Also, the article mentions the Tigers (literally only says "The Tigers and Indians are interested in Harang") so keeping him away from them would be an added bonus.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby TribeinLA » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:58 pm

I'd like Harang, though I have not seen him since his Cincy days. He'd likely squeeze into the 4 role and be welcomed.

Sounds like the Pirates are going to get Ludwick and if the Red Sox want him, Beltran will waive his no trade claus and stay on the east coast.

Bat wise, we'd have a shot at getting Houston to do business with us, but we'd have to give up the most in the deal with them for Pence. They may not even trade him. They'd likely deal with us for 3 A/AA prospects and of course Pom would be asked about but hopefully they'll get over the fact that we're not gonna do that. Other rumors I am picking up are Willingham for possibly one of our AAA bats. Florida doesn't want any more pitching help, according to sources. The Dodgers and Indians are likely not going to do buisness for Asian man. Morse from the Nats is possible. Right now, Morse, Ludwick, M Byrd, and Willingham are the best shots with Beltran being a longshot if we can outdeal the Red Sox, Tigers, Giants, and Yankees. Sure.

My gut says Pestano for Ludwick or Weglarz for Willingham. For Byrd, we'd likley have to give up hardly anything...maybe give his GM a night in bed with Shap's wife?

For Beltran...jeez 2 months is not gonna be worth it almost. We're looking at giving up 3 players that we'd like to keep as long as it's not Pomeranz and Chisenhall. I wonder if we could go McAllister, R Perez, and Valbuena. Ok, that sucks...damn. I cannot think of the right package to put together. Too bad Jeanmar exposd himself Sunday. I was hoping he'd be good bait. No one would trade for him right now unless he was the side of breadsticks to go with the pizza.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby pup » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:00 pm

Drew and Chiz for Beltran and Wright.

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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby TribeinLA » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:16 pm

I think Buck and Phelps for Kemp and cash. The Dodgers need a corner OF who can hit RHP's. They also need a platoon for Tiny Jesus. We'd almost be stupid to give that up for Kemp, but $5,000.00 certainly would almost make it worthwhile.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:29 pm

TribeinLA wrote:I think Buck and Phelps for Kemp and cash.


Have you been drinking?
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:35 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
TribeinLA wrote:I think Buck and Phelps for Kemp and cash.


Have you been drinking?


I was guessing heroin, actually.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby pup » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:36 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
TribeinLA wrote:I think Buck and Phelps for Kemp and cash.


Have you been drinking?


OK. No cash.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby TribeinLA » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:47 pm

I suppose it's not Sarcasm Day. Even I know better than to say something like that with seriousness. I thought the $5,000 gave it away.

Ok, so I will try harder...

I think we should trade Valbuena and Kearns to Astros for Pence. The Stros need some vets and who better than Kearns who played for a Central team and knows the division well...and Valbuena would be a steal considering he can play 2nd base AND left field.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:27 am

SI_JonHeyman: the indians called on ryan ludwick and are eying coco crisp. could battle reds/others for the 2 ex-indians
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:00 pm

skatingtripods wrote:SI_JonHeyman: the indians called on ryan ludwick and are eying coco crisp. could battle reds/others for the 2 ex-indians


I think I'd rather get Crisp/Carroll over Ludwick/Willingham. I think we need to go for AVG/OBP over HR/RBI. How many sub .250 hitters do we need on this team?

And anyone actually know how much payroll the Indians are willing to add? I think Crisp and Harang are two reasonable moves that would help us now and wouldn't break the bank.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:45 pm

I would be okay with Crisp, since its becoming obvious they are going to add a marginal player in a trade so as long as they give up a c level prospect, Im okay with crisp, who would be an upgrade.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:50 pm

A trade might be done sooner rather than later. @wahoo_baseball on Twitter, who broke the Phelps call-up, says Valbuena's on his way back to Columbus and no corresponding roster move has been made.

Could be Crisp, since this rumor shot up pretty quickly and he'd fill the need for an OF.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:52 pm

Where does Crisp play when Grady comes back(if he does)? He's never played an inning of RF in his ML career and doesn't really have the arm to do so.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:01 pm

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:Where does Crisp play when Grady comes back(if he does)? He's never played an inning of RF in his ML career and doesn't really have the arm to do so.


Choo will be back before Sizemore, if Sizemore comes back at all.

Have Kearns/Buck platoon RF, Crisp in LF when one of those two isn't out there.

This is assuming we don't get a bigger name like Pence or Byrd or Ludwick or someone else.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:05 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:Where does Crisp play when Grady comes back(if he does)? He's never played an inning of RF in his ML career and doesn't really have the arm to do so.


Choo will be back before Sizemore, if Sizemore comes back at all.

Have Kearns/Buck platoon RF, Crisp in LF when one of those two isn't out there.

This is assuming we don't get a bigger name like Pence or Byrd or Ludwick or someone else.


Just saw that Sizemore is out 4-6 weeks right after I posted that. If we get Crisp we're looking at Brantley-Crisp-Kearns/Buck?
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby pup » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:07 pm

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:Where does Crisp play when Grady comes back(if he does)? He's never played an inning of RF in his ML career and doesn't really have the arm to do so.


Choo will be back before Sizemore, if Sizemore comes back at all.

Have Kearns/Buck platoon RF, Crisp in LF when one of those two isn't out there.

This is assuming we don't get a bigger name like Pence or Byrd or Ludwick or someone else.


Just saw that Sizemore is out 4-6 weeks right after I posted that. If we get Crisp we're looking at Brantley-Crisp-Kearns/Buck?


That should scare the rest of the Central right into submission.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:35 pm

Well, rotating door with Kearns/Buck/Crisp. By the time Choo comes back, rosters should be expanding shortly thereafter so you don't lose one of Kearns/Buck to keep Crisp. Crisp is your 4th OF, with the Kearns/Buck platoon rotating in LF, Brantley in CF, Choo in RF.

Have to keep Kearns as a RH PH bat.

All of this is speculative though, because there's no certainty they get Crisp and even if they do get Crisp, I'm sure they'd still be interested in one of the other OF available.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:38 pm

It would be more surprising to me if Jason Donald wasn't replacing Valmala.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:38 pm

Rat_Tail wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:SI_JonHeyman: the indians called on ryan ludwick and are eying coco crisp. could battle reds/others for the 2 ex-indians


I think I'd rather get Crisp/Carroll over Ludwick/Willingham. I think we need to go for AVG/OBP over HR/RBI. How many sub .250 hitters do we need on this team?

And anyone actually know how much payroll the Indians are willing to add? I think Crisp and Harang are two reasonable moves that would help us now and wouldn't break the bank.



Coco Crisp career OBP: .330
Josh Willingham career OBP: .362
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:43 pm

Frankly, with Sizemore AND Choo out for most of the season, and Santana struggling, I don't bother to make a move. You bring someone in if you still have those guys to get this team over the hump. But at this point its like throwing good money after bad.

4 years from now, you'll be glad we didn't throw prospects away on 2011.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:00 pm

peeker643 wrote:It would be more surprising to me if Jason Donald wasn't replacing Valmala.


Donald's in the lineup for the Clippers right now down in AAA.

I agree with you that the move would make sense and, I too thought it was likely. But, if Donald was the planned move to come up for tomorrow's game then I'm sure he'd be on his way already and not playing for the Clippers today.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Pressrunnr » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:05 pm

4 years from now, you'll be glad we didn't throw prospects away on 2011


There probably aren't as many prospects as we think that we'd be glad we didn't "throw away" four years from now. That's not a knock on the Indians, but on prospects in general. Once you get past Pomeranz, Kipinis, Chisenhall and White (and even one or more of those guys will turn out, in hindsight, to fall short), there are probably a lot more Max Ramirez's than Carlos Santana's; a lot more Ted Cox's than Jeff Bagwells; a lot more Albie Lopezes than Carlos Perez's. You get the idea.

Problem is knowing which ones won't burn you, either for making a deal or not making a deal. The blessing -- and curse -- of having a lot of prospects.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:35 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:Coco Crisp career OBP: .330
Josh Willingham career OBP: .362


I was going off of this year.

Crisp
AVG .265 OBP .315 HR 4 RBI 31 SB 27

Willingham
AVG .240 OBP .315 HR 12 RBI 47 SB 4


If you wanna argue stats it all depends on what you're looking for. We already have enough "Willinghams" on our team.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby pup » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:42 pm

Rat_Tail wrote:
rebelwithoutaclue wrote:Coco Crisp career OBP: .330
Josh Willingham career OBP: .362


I was going off of this year.

Crisp
AVG .265 OBP .315 HR 4 RBI 31 SB 27

Willingham
AVG .240 OBP .315 HR 12 RBI 47 SB 4


If you wanna argue stats it all depends on what you're looking for. We already have enough "Willinghams" on our team.


None of which are RH. Who has hit the most HR for the 2011 Cleveland Indians from the right side of the plate?

LaPorta has 8.
Orlando has 4.
Asdrubal has 3 from the right side.
Santana has 1 from the right side.
Duncan 3.
Kearns 2.
Marson 1.

22 Home runs from the right side of the plate. In 97 games. Or the same number as Paul Konerko. But shit, we are up 1 on Nelson Cruz and Mark Reynolds. Kiling Adrian Beltre and Miguel Cabrera who only have 20. And that stiff Carlos Quintin? We have three more home runs from the right side than he does.

If RH power bat is not the acquisition, we might as well trade for more pitching.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:45 pm

Kipnis just tweeted..."ITS TIME!!!!"

Any chance that means he's coming up?
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:46 pm

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:Kipnis just tweeted..."ITS TIME!!!!"

Any chance that means he's coming up?


Fair assumption to make.

Looks like it's time for OC to get pissy and pout again. Once he might be able to deal with, twice, he's mailing it in the rest of the way.
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:49 pm

Rumors are starting to float around about the Tigers and James Shields. If he's available, that's someone I'd pay a big price for. He has team options of 7, 9, and 12 mill from 2012-2014 which is pretty reasonable for a good starter. And you might be able to catch Tampa at a good time because they don't want to pay him going forward (especially with David Price due for a raise soon). Obviously a righty bat is the need right now but since it's a seller's market for hitters, maybe we can go in another direction. We still have a giant hole in the rotation and this would help us for the future also. Most of our prospects would be lucky to turn out as good as James Shields.

I guess the big question is what the Rays would ask for. It would have to be a significant package but would they insist on Pomeranz?
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Re: What reasonable moves do you see us making? If any?

Unread postby Bigfist » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:18 pm

I would give a lot for Shields. Sort of surprised, as that would mean the Rays are throwing in the towel. He will cost a lot, though. Don't know what the Tigers have to offer. Anyone familiar with what they have in AA and AAA?
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