Cleveland Indians & MLB

by **RedDawg53** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:08 pm

Gawd. I miss Raffy right's arm. I don't miss his 3 minutes between each pitch. Like watching paint dry

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:09 pm

How was that slider not a strike?

by **skatingtripods** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:10 pm

statmasta wrote:How was that slider not a strike?

Wondering the same thing.

Also wondering why Buck didn't hit for OC.

by **Dellucci TailGator** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:12 pm

I now know how all of the Indians' opponents felt all those years when Betancourt pitched for the Tribe. I feel that pain. That long, never-ending pain of him getting ready to pitch.

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:13 pm

LOL Matt Underwood with another blown call. Wow.

And that umpire sucks.

by **Dellucci TailGator** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:13 pm

Awful, awful call. Awful.

Awful.

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:13 pm

He was clearly safe. It wasn't even close.

WTF is that ump thinking? It really wasn't a tough call. What BS.

by **skatingtripods** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:14 pm

Umpires are having a bad night. That wasn't close at all.

by **Dellucci TailGator** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:14 pm

Edit: he wasn't even shielded. He just blew that.

by **skatingtripods** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:15 pm

So, Buck hits for Marson?

by **drum** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:16 pm

ump was on the wrong side of the play. he beat it AND he never tagged him

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:16 pm

Troy Tulowitzki has such a long swing.

by **DeanSheen** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:17 pm

Nice call ump.

Thanks for nothing Carmona.

by **Dellucci TailGator** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:22 pm

I'm a tad disappointed that Cabrera didn't get tested more at third base. I want to see if he's an option there as a utility guy.

by **Dellucci TailGator** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:24 pm

The ghost of Todd Hollandsworth to pinch hit for the Tribe. Ugh.

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:24 pm

Sizemore needs to go yard.

by **skatingtripods** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:24 pm

Worst at bat of the night. What the fuck was that?

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:25 pm

statmasta wrote:Sizemore needs to go yard.

well that was disappointing

by **drum** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:25 pm

by **Dellucci TailGator** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:25 pm

Oh boy, I hope Hammy didn't get people's hopes up on that swing.

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:26 pm

What a disappointing game.

by **drum** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:26 pm

Rockies get lucky as hell for the 15th time tonight

by **Dellucci TailGator** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:27 pm

Two good swings off Street.

Travis Buck can go get his perms in C-Bus for all I care.

Fausto would be a very talented long man.

by **skatingtripods** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:27 pm

Winnable game. Have to bounce back.

Go Clayton Kershaw!

by **FortheWin** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:27 pm

This loss is on
Fausto Carmona-RETIRE YOU SUCK
Lou marson-don't do that throw, you aren't yadier molina
2nd base umpire..get in the right position

by **FortheWin** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:27 pm

Dellucci TailGator wrote:Oh boy, I hope Hammy didn't get people's hopes up on that swing.

Ohhhh he did

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:27 pm

Asdrubal Cabrera "Season of Web Gems" coming up on Baseball Tonight.

Sounds like it's a feature showing nothing but Asdrubal highlights. Sounds awesome.

by **skatingtripods** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:27 pm

I blame Bruce Fields.

by **Dellucci TailGator** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:29 pm

skatingtripods wrote:I blame Bruce Fields.

WHEN WILL HIS REIGN OF TERROR END!?!

by **googleeph2** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Must have been one darn satisfying win for Rockies fan.

by **drum** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:36 pm

Til tomorrow. I've got to get to bed before this one pisses me off more.
2 home runs miss by a foot
bad calls
bad bounces
bad pitching save hermann and first 4 innings

by **Dnthateonthepronk** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:36 pm

Dellucci TailGator wrote:Oh boy, I hope Hammy didn't get people's hopes up on that swing.

Oh he did....... almost had an accident while driving :thud:

by **gotribe31** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:40 pm

Fire Belcher. Clearly he has ruined Carmona.

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:41 pm

statmasta wrote:Asdrubal Cabrera "Season of Web Gems" coming up on Baseball Tonight.

Sounds like it's a feature showing nothing but Asdrubal highlights. Sounds awesome.

coming up soon after this commercial break

tune into ESPN!

by **RedDawg53** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:51 pm

statmasta wrote:
statmasta wrote:Asdrubal Cabrera "Season of Web Gems" coming up on Baseball Tonight.

Sounds like it's a feature showing nothing but Asdrubal highlights. Sounds awesome.

coming up soon after this commercial break

tune into ESPN!

Fuck espe, don't feel like waiting through those Yankee/red sux in depth looks, commercials, and why A-roid is the man and how screwed the Cards are without Pujols. Bring me Chucks Last Call, lol.

by **statmasta** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:53 pm

RedDawg53 wrote:
statmasta wrote:
statmasta wrote:Asdrubal Cabrera "Season of Web Gems" coming up on Baseball Tonight.

Sounds like it's a feature showing nothing but Asdrubal highlights. Sounds awesome.

coming up soon after this commercial break

tune into ESPN!

Fuck espe, don't feel like waiting through those Yankee/red sux in depth looks, commercials, and why A-roid is the man and how screwed the Cards are without Pujols. Bring me Chucks Last Call, lol.

Well you missed out.

by **RedDawg53** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:58 pm

Last Callllllllll. I can get the Asdrubal replays there.

by **Am I Here Again?** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:04 am

Well don't go looking for them on ESPN. MLB must have made them pull the video. And I was all ready for it.. :pop:

by **Symbolic47** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:42 am

well this game sure sucked. Carmona needs to ride the pine. Call up Zack to take his spot for Saturday.

by **scrambler** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:20 am

IN the end, it was bad luck for Carmona, I don't see how you get rid of him. The big deal about walking Ianetta on here, the guy is 3rd in the NL in walks this year. Guy's a patient hitter. Lots of guys walk him. the hit by Tulo was pure luck and then some. by all rights Fausto should have been out of the inning 4-2, but it happens. Yeah he screwed up the inning, but I remain convinced the guy will turn it around this year to some extent. He's been terrible no doubt but he had a real good stretch up until the melt down with tons of ground balls and he did get the ground ball against their man in the 5th just horrendous luck. when you combine physical errors, with mental errors, with horrendous luck you get current Fausto. At some point 1 or 2 of those 3 will disappear and we will get last year's Fausto.

by **skatingtripods** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:54 am

scrambler wrote:IN the end, it was bad luck for Carmona, I don't see how you get rid of him. The big deal about walking Ianetta on here, the guy is 3rd in the NL in walks this year. Guy's a patient hitter. Lots of guys walk him.

He also hits in front of the pitcher.

Talk about a misleading stat.

Fact is, in the AL, you can't walk the #9 hitter with CarGo, Helton, and Tulo to come.

The chopper off the bag ruined him because he has no mental toughness. Nothing more. Bad luck is part of the game. You have to overcome it. He doesn't. Period.

by **GtX11** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:03 am

DeanSheen wrote:Nice call ump.

Thanks for nothing Carmona.

Carmona has got to go. He had one good year.

by **Bigfist** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:09 am

skatingtripods wrote:
scrambler wrote:IN the end, it was bad luck for Carmona, I don't see how you get rid of him. The big deal about walking Ianetta on here, the guy is 3rd in the NL in walks this year. Guy's a patient hitter. Lots of guys walk him.

He also hits in front of the pitcher.

Talk about a misleading stat.

Fact is, in the AL, you can't walk the #9 hitter with CarGo, Helton, and Tulo to come.

The chopper off the bag ruined him because he has no mental toughness. Nothing more. Bad luck is part of the game. You have to overcome it. He doesn't. Period.

Well, the guys in front of Ianetta (in terms of walks) are Votto, Prince Fielder, Carlos Pena, and Lance Berkman (tied with Ianetta). None of those guys hit eighth. So, I would say Ianetta's walks are not solely explained by hitting eighth..there is a lot more to it.

by **skatingtripods** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:31 am

Bigfist wrote:Well, the guys in front of Ianetta (in terms of walks) are Votto, Prince Fielder, Carlos Pena, and Lance Berkman (tied with Ianetta). None of those guys hit eighth. So, I would say Ianetta's walks are not solely explained by hitting eighth..there is a lot more to it.

Those are guys are good and have good plate discipline and decent protection behind them.

Iannetta has 38 walks hitting 8th. 3 hitting 7th. 1 hitting 9th (last night). Pretty sure it's because he's hitting in front of the pitcher. He's willing to take a walk and give the pitcher a chance. A good quality in a NL #8 hitter.

Iannetta has 29 walks with a 2 strike count, all coming from full counts. Because he gets 3-2 breaking balls with the pitcher behind him instead of fastballs. Explains why he's also hitting .150 with 2 strikes. The other 13 are 3-0 or 3-1 counts, aka, being worked around.

by **motherscratcher** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:40 am

GtX11 wrote:
DeanSheen wrote:Nice call ump.

Thanks for nothing Carmona.

Carmona has got to go. He had one good year.

That's right. He only had one good year those two times.

by **scrambler** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:05 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
scrambler wrote:IN the end, it was bad luck for Carmona, I don't see how you get rid of him. The big deal about walking Ianetta on here, the guy is 3rd in the NL in walks this year. Guy's a patient hitter. Lots of guys walk him.

He also hits in front of the pitcher.

Talk about a misleading stat.

Fact is, in the AL, you can't walk the #9 hitter with CarGo, Helton, and Tulo to come.

The chopper off the bag ruined him because he has no mental toughness. Nothing more. Bad luck is part of the game. You have to overcome it. He doesn't. Period.

I apologize, I am an unabashed carmona apologist. I just like the guy. I'm going to debate the mental toughness thing. To go from top 5 in the Cy Young voting to regressing to pitching in low clas A rookie ball in 2009 and make it all the way back to a pretty darn good pitcher in 2010 takes some mental toughness in my opinion...I mean he reached the absolute depths in 2009. And was back to pretty good last year...I mean he was by a large margin their best starter in 2010. It's depressing to see what he's doing the last month and a half, but I can't yet bury him. He already came back once from the depths...I think he can do it again, and I think it takes at least a touch of mental toughness to come back from what he came back from.

by **scrambler** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:12 pm

Bigfist wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
scrambler wrote:Well, the guys in front of Ianetta (in terms of walks) are Votto, Prince Fielder, Carlos Pena, and Lance Berkman (tied with Ianetta). None of those guys hit eighth. So, I would say Ianetta's walks are not solely explained by hitting eighth..there is a lot more to it.

thank you. you are 100 percent correct. the guy in his career is a .234 hitter but has an OBP of .360. He is a walker. And the facts are in the NL if the 8 hitter comes up with 2 outs nobody on, the last thing you want to do is walk him as you WANT the pitcher leading off the next inning and not the leadd off guy...although there is certainly merit to the fact that with runners in scoring position, they will pitch around the 8 hitter as well...especially with 2 outs.

by **WiscTribeFan** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:41 pm

scrambler wrote:I apologize, I am an unabashed carmona apologist. I just like the guy. I'm going to debate the mental toughness thing. To go from top 5 in the Cy Young voting to regressing to pitching in low clas A rookie ball in 2009 and make it all the way back to a pretty darn good pitcher in 2010 takes some mental toughness in my opinion...I mean he reached the absolute depths in 2009. And was back to pretty good last year...I mean he was by a large margin their best starter in 2010. It's depressing to see what he's doing the last month and a half, but I can't yet bury him. He already came back once from the depths...I think he can do it again, and I think it takes at least a touch of mental toughness to come back from what he came back from.

Up and down, up and down, up and down.

Can the Tribe bet $7M (his contract option for next year) that he'll bounce back, though? 2013 and 2014 are even bigger. Which Carmona's going to show up to collect those paychecks?

His lack of consistency not only hurts us in terms of his production, it makes him virtually un-tradeable even when he is pitching well. No team's going to give up anything for a guy with a history of huge valleys he's got to dig himself out of.

If he continues to struggle, I could see them not picking up that option next year.

by **scrambler** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:27 pm

WiscTribeFan wrote:
scrambler wrote:Up and down, up and down, up and down.

Can the Tribe bet $7M (his contract option for next year) that he'll bounce back, though? 2013 and 2014 are even bigger. Which Carmona's going to show up to collect those paychecks?

His lack of consistency not only hurts us in terms of his production, it makes him virtually un-tradeable even when he is pitching well. No team's going to give up anything for a guy with a history of huge valleys he's got to dig himself out of.

If he continues to struggle, I could see them not picking up that option next year.

I honestly don't know. I don't think anyone else does either. He's still got 3 and a half months left in this season to bounce back, which should give them plenty of time to make the $7 million dollar decision next year easier. Personally, I think he's worth the gamble in 2012 regardless of what happens the rest of this year. AFter that, I'd cut him off if he continues to stink. considering he has no trade value right now (not sure I agree with that) from what's been written I'd keep him.

by **pup** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:03 pm

scrambler wrote:
Bigfist wrote:
skatingtripods wrote:
scrambler wrote:Well, the guys in front of Ianetta (in terms of walks) are Votto, Prince Fielder, Carlos Pena, and Lance Berkman (tied with Ianetta). None of those guys hit eighth. So, I would say Ianetta's walks are not solely explained by hitting eighth..there is a lot more to it.

thank you. you are 100 percent correct. the guy in his career is a .234 hitter but has an OBP of .360. He is a walker. And the facts are in the NL if the 8 hitter comes up with 2 outs nobody on, the last thing you want to do is walk him as you WANT the pitcher leading off the next inning and not the leadd off guy...although there is certainly merit to the fact that with runners in scoring position, they will pitch around the 8 hitter as well...especially with 2 outs.

A typical 8 hitter, maybe. But Ianetta can hit with good pop. The last thing you want to do is give up a home run in that spot. You pitch him carefully early in the count. Get ahead and attack. Fall behind and punt to face the pitcher.

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