Cleveland Indians & MLB

by **swerb** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:50 pm

MLBastian Jordan Bastian
Asked Acta if he was running out of ideas to fix offense: "I've got a few more up my sleeve," he said. "Watch tomorrow."

Kipnis? Lonnie?

by **motherscratcher** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:06 pm

I wouldn't mind seeing some fresh blood out there. They have to do SOMETHING. This is absolutely brutal to watch and it's depressing the hell out of me.

I do wonder if the trick up the sleeve is more along the lines of Nick Johnson, who i believe has to be added to the roster by july 1if we want to keep him.

by **skatingtripods** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:13 pm

swerb wrote:MLBastian Jordan Bastian
Asked Acta if he was running out of ideas to fix offense: "I've got a few more up my sleeve," he said. "Watch tomorrow."

Kipnis? Lonnie?

Chiz Kid's hitting .250 in Columbus.

Kipnis is up to .290 though. He's a possibility, but I wouldn't think until Tuesday in Detroit.

My guess is he puts Brantley 3rd or 5th in the lineup. I also expect Marson behind the plate and LaPorta pulling splinters. I think Buck's back in too.

Sizemore back at the top too. Middle of the order's not working. He'll try and get him comfortable again in the leadoff spot.

by **TribeinLA** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:37 am

I was on board with LaPorta at one time, but he's gotta go. He's going to cost this team in the end.

I like Buck (has he been injured?). He deserves some steady PT, but do not let him hit cleanup. Also, move Sizemore way down...one of the worst clutch hitters we've had this year along with most of the lineup. Grady is just really stinking it up.

I think the lineup should be:

1. Brantley, lf
2. Choo, rf
3. A Cabrera, ss
4. Santana, 1b
5. Buck, dh
6. Phelps/O Cabrera, 2b
7. Sizemore, cf
8. Hannahan/Phelps, 3b
9. Marson, c

LaPorta, Kearns, Everett only when needed. Give Marson 1/4 days off and put in LaPorta at 1b or dh. IF and when Pronk comes back and healthy, shop LaPorta somewhere for a seller with a #3 or 4 starter they'd be willing to give up for Matt and maybe a prospect. In the meantime, call up someone and give Kearns options, if he has any or just part ways. He has contributed very, very little and makes me realize how much more we got out of a David Dellucci.

by **gotribe31** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:55 am

swerb wrote:MLBastian Jordan Bastian
Asked Acta if he was running out of ideas to fix offense: "I've got a few more up my sleeve," he said. "Watch tomorrow."

Kipnis? Lonnie?

Kip has been on fire, and I think he's closer to getting the call than Lonnie. Maybe give Kip the keys to 2B and turn Phelps/Hanahan into a platoon? That doesn't give too many AB to Cord though, and the D takes a hit if Hanahan's not in.

I think it's more along the line of lineup tinkering. For what it's worth, I think they should put Phelps in the #2 slot and move Asdrubal to 3 and Grady down.

by **Bigfist** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:04 am

Well, if Kipnis is called up to Cleveland, who goes down? Kearns DFA'd? O Cab DFA'd? Phelps to 3B, I think, is not good...he has shown very little defensive ability there.

Kipnis has a bright future, I think, but it is highly unlikely he will make much of an impact at first. Like it or not, I think we are pretty much stuck with what we have and have to hope that the guys we are counting on remember how to hit.

by **gotribe31** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:56 am

Bigfist wrote:Well, if Kipnis is called up to Cleveland, who goes down? Kearns DFA'd? O Cab DFA'd? Phelps to 3B, I think, is not good...he has shown very little defensive ability there.

Kipnis has a bright future, I think, but it is highly unlikely he will make much of an impact at first. Like it or not, I think we are pretty much stuck with what we have and have to hope that the guys we are counting on remember how to hit.

Like I said, I think it's more along the lines of tinkering with the lineup than making another prospect move. But if Kearns/Everett/OC get DFA'd, you won't see any tears in my eyes.

Did you go to the Kinston game yesterday? If so, did you stay for all 23 innings???

by **Erie Warrior** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:14 pm

I would think that since no one is hitting, removing you better defenders would be counter-productive. Leave Mannahan at 3B, Keep Ocab and Phelps at 2B.

It's a funk. We've seen they play great, now they are playing awful. Lets try and even out against Detroit. Splitting the series would be a win.

by **peeker643** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:05 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:I would think that since no one is hitting, removing you better defenders would be counter-productive. Leave Mannahan at 3B, Keep Ocab and Phelps at 2B.

It's a funk. We've seen they play great, now they are playing awful. Lets try and even out against Detroit. Splitting the series would be a win.

Yep.

Keep fucking with a lineup and guys won't know whether to shit or wind their watch.

Bottom line is if Santana, Grady and Choo don't hit it doesn't matter what you do with AAA kids. Expecting those kids to come up and make a difference is unrealistic. Guys like Santana and LaPorta were Kipnis and Phelps at one point.

Not saying they don't get their chance, they do. But expecting them to fare much better than top tier prospects isn't realistic at all.

Work out of it. If they don't you'll see those kids anyway for the second half of the season.

by **Bigfist** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:12 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
Bigfist wrote:Well, if Kipnis is called up to Cleveland, who goes down? Kearns DFA'd? O Cab DFA'd? Phelps to 3B, I think, is not good...he has shown very little defensive ability there.

Kipnis has a bright future, I think, but it is highly unlikely he will make much of an impact at first. Like it or not, I think we are pretty much stuck with what we have and have to hope that the guys we are counting on remember how to hit.

Like I said, I think it's more along the lines of tinkering with the lineup than making another prospect move. But if Kearns/Everett/OC get DFA'd, you won't see any tears in my eyes.

Did you go to the Kinston game yesterday? If so, did you stay for all 23 innings???

Hi..yes, I was there and stayed the entire 23 innings! Had it been a night game, no way I would have lasted, but the game started at 1:30 and ended around 7:45. Only a handful of us were there at the end..and we received cardboard plaques that read "I was part of the longest game in Carolina League history".

What an amazing game. Bo Greenwell, outfielder, took a ball off his hand while batting in the first and had to leave the game, putting the only reserve OF in the game for Kinston, Delvi Cid. Somewhere around 11th, Myrtle Beach put their DH into the game defensively, which forced their pitch to bat, as it turned out, several times. I think in the 13th, another Kinston OF, Tyler Holt, was ejected from the game, but it wasn't clear to me why. That forced Doug Pickens into LF, and he normally catches or plays 1B. We loaded the bases with none out in the 22nd, but couldn't score. In the top of the 23rd, Cid caught a fly ball for the 3rd out, but came up limping and had to be carried off the field...and I think he was the last position player available. Had the game gone to 24 innings, one of the starting pitchers would have had to come in and play. But, with C Roberto Perez on 3rd, and two out in the 23rd, Casey Frawley hit a shot just by the Myrtle Beach third baseman to end the game!

Thanks for asking.

by **gotribe31** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:33 pm

Bigfist wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
Bigfist wrote:Well, if Kipnis is called up to Cleveland, who goes down? Kearns DFA'd? O Cab DFA'd? Phelps to 3B, I think, is not good...he has shown very little defensive ability there.

Kipnis has a bright future, I think, but it is highly unlikely he will make much of an impact at first. Like it or not, I think we are pretty much stuck with what we have and have to hope that the guys we are counting on remember how to hit.

Like I said, I think it's more along the lines of tinkering with the lineup than making another prospect move. But if Kearns/Everett/OC get DFA'd, you won't see any tears in my eyes.

Did you go to the Kinston game yesterday? If so, did you stay for all 23 innings???

Hi..yes, I was there and stayed the entire 23 innings! Had it been a night game, no way I would have lasted, but the game started at 1:30 and ended around 7:45. Only a handful of us were there at the end..and we received cardboard plaques that read "I was part of the longest game in Carolina League history".

What an amazing game. Bo Greenwell, outfielder, took a ball off his hand while batting in the first and had to leave the game, putting the only reserve OF in the game for Kinston, Delvi Cid. Somewhere around 11th, Myrtle Beach put their DH into the game defensively, which forced their pitch to bat, as it turned out, several times. I think in the 13th, another Kinston OF, Tyler Holt, was ejected from the game, but it wasn't clear to me why. That forced Doug Pickens into LF, and he normally catches or plays 1B. We loaded the bases with none out in the 22nd, but couldn't score. In the top of the 23rd, Cid caught a fly ball for the 3rd out, but came up limping and had to be carried off the field...and I think he was the last position player available. Had the game gone to 24 innings, one of the starting pitchers would have had to come in and play. But, with C Roberto Perez on 3rd, and two out in the 23rd, Casey Frawley hit a shot just by the Myrtle Beach third baseman to end the game!

Thanks for asking.

Yeah, I saw that Myrtle Beach had to hit their pitchers, can't beleive their manager did that. Crazy, crazy game, and I can't believe they have a doubleheader today. Awesome that you were there, and even cooler that you stuck it out for the whole thing. I talked about it on ATF today, but Perez is a warrior catching all 23 innings.

As for Greenwell, really tough break as he ended up fracturing his pinky finger and is out 4-6 weeks.

by **gotribe31** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:41 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing some fresh blood out there. They have to do SOMETHING. This is absolutely brutal to watch and it's depressing the hell out of me.

I do wonder if the trick up the sleeve is more along the lines of Nick Johnson, who i believe has to be added to the roster by july 1if we want to keep him.

Johnson CAN opt out if not on the roster by July 1, but he doesn't have to. If he doesn't feel like he's healthy and up to speed, no reason for him to opt out unless he has a gaurenteed MLB slot with another team.

by **skatingtripods** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:39 pm

I don't know if they are tricks up Acta's sleeve or not, but today's lineup is interesting to say the least...

Sizemore, Santana, Brantley, Cabrera, Choo, Buck, Phelps, Hannahan, Marson.

by **bookelly** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:43 pm

Bigfist wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
Bigfist wrote:Well, if Kipnis is called up to Cleveland, who goes down? Kearns DFA'd? O Cab DFA'd? Phelps to 3B, I think, is not good...he has shown very little defensive ability there.

Kipnis has a bright future, I think, but it is highly unlikely he will make much of an impact at first. Like it or not, I think we are pretty much stuck with what we have and have to hope that the guys we are counting on remember how to hit.

Like I said, I think it's more along the lines of tinkering with the lineup than making another prospect move. But if Kearns/Everett/OC get DFA'd, you won't see any tears in my eyes.

Did you go to the Kinston game yesterday? If so, did you stay for all 23 innings???

Hi..yes, I was there and stayed the entire 23 innings! Had it been a night game, no way I would have lasted, but the game started at 1:30 and ended around 7:45. Only a handful of us were there at the end..and we received cardboard plaques that read "I was part of the longest game in Carolina League history".

What an amazing game. Bo Greenwell, outfielder, took a ball off his hand while batting in the first and had to leave the game, putting the only reserve OF in the game for Kinston, Delvi Cid. Somewhere around 11th, Myrtle Beach put their DH into the game defensively, which forced their pitch to bat, as it turned out, several times. I think in the 13th, another Kinston OF, Tyler Holt, was ejected from the game, but it wasn't clear to me why. That forced Doug Pickens into LF, and he normally catches or plays 1B. We loaded the bases with none out in the 22nd, but couldn't score. In the top of the 23rd, Cid caught a fly ball for the 3rd out, but came up limping and had to be carried off the field...and I think he was the last position player available. Had the game gone to 24 innings, one of the starting pitchers would have had to come in and play. But, with C Roberto Perez on 3rd, and two out in the 23rd, Casey Frawley hit a shot just by the Myrtle Beach third baseman to end the game!

Thanks for asking.

+1 Internets to you good sir.

by **Bigfist** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:45 pm

To GoTribe...damn, I had not heard that Greenwell fractured his little finger. That is a bad break..no pun intended. Both catchers were beat (understandably so) at the end. In the 22nd, the inning the Ktribe loaded the bases with no out, Adam Abraham (who was Kinston's DH yesterday), struck out with no out and a runner on second, and the ball got by the catcher by about a foot...normally an easy play for the catcher to get an out at first. But the catcher was so tired and sweaty, he could not even pick the ball up!

My actual favorite part of the game was one of my fellow fans (who goes to all the games and is much older than me {I am 58}) yelled at the home plate ump in the 19th that he (the ump) was a disgrace to the profession (and for no apparent reason that I could see). I think we all were a little loopy at that point.

by **FortheWin** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:49 pm

Everyone can quit wondering what the lineup will look like tonight

Sizemore DH
Santana 1B
Brantley CF
A-cab SS
Choo RF
Buck LF
Phelps 2B
Hannahan 3B
Marson C

Carrasco pitching

by **gotribe31** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:04 pm

skatingtripods wrote:I don't know if they are tricks up Acta's sleeve or not, but today's lineup is interesting to say the least...

Sizemore, Santana, Brantley, Cabrera, Choo, Buck, Phelps, Hannahan, Marson.

Interesting. Tony LaRussa always liked to hit a slugger in the #2 hole because if the leadoff hitter gets on base, he'll get more fastballs to hit. I like Santana 2 to see if he can get some straightballs (he hit them very much), but the theory doesn't work if Sizemore doesn't get on base in front of him. I'd have kept Brantley at 1 and moved Cabrera to 3 in that lineup. We'll see how it works.

by **bookelly** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:08 pm

skatingtripods wrote:I don't know if they are tricks up Acta's sleeve or not, but today's lineup is interesting to say the least...

Sizemore, Santana, Brantley, Cabrera, Choo, Buck, Phelps, Hannahan, Marson.

At least he's trying. I like Grady at #1. That's where he's always had his best success.

by **TonyIPI** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:13 pm

Peeker is spot on. It doesn't matter where you move guys in the lineup or who you call up because until Santana, Choo and Sizemore get their heads out of their collective asses and Hafner comes back, it won't mean jack shit. This offense needs all four of those guys to play up to their capabilities. Without them doing so, all the other guys are overexposed.

Not sure what Acta is implying, but not a lot he can do. Perhaps we see Kearns dumped and someone like Goedert brought up as a bench RH bat to play some 1B, LF, and 3B. If anyone is going to platoon with Hannahan at 3B, to me it is him. Goedert is a below average defender at 3B, but he appears the most likely short term solution over Phelps who has barely played any 3B in his career (1 G this year and like 8-10 games last year in the AFL).

I don't see Kipnis being an option at the moment. They just gave the 2B keys to Phelps, so have to see how that goes for a little bit before considering that move.

by **cozmeesah** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:39 pm

Not exactly fair to include Sizemore in the same shit pile with Choo, guys.

Well, as far as in clutch situations, yes. Grady never really was great in the clutch, even in his All-Star years. Which is why I was kinda like "errrr" when he was put in the 3-hole. I pretty much knew that wouldn't end well. Had to try though. But I wouldn't exactly say he's got his head up his ass. Though I admit the last 6 games haven't been great.

June #'s - .250/.386/.389 Sure, .250 average isn't great but a .386 OBP is. Also, his BB/K in June is 6/13 as opposed to 1/17 in May. So he's getting on base now and looks to be getting at least some plate discipline back. Which may lead to the average going up. Again, he's just not exactly clutch in knocking in the guys on base in front of him, never was. Therefore maybe moving him back to leadoff will work since he's getting on base at a much better clip than before. Leaving the guys who have been a bit better in the clutch (Brantley and Droobs) a chance to drive him in.

Choo is just a mess in general. June #'s - .158/.238/.211 There's nothing good in any of that.

I know everyone will look at ME posting this as "typical" since he's my favorite player. But, all bias aside, looking at the #'s it's not fair to lump him in with Choo. Also taking into consideration that he probably wasn't exactly 100% when coming off the DL the 2nd time.

by **Bigfist** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:57 pm

Thanks Bookelly. As soon as I can get there, I will be headed for the Double Header, which has already started.

by **YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:07 pm

At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

by **Dnthateonthepronk** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:15 pm

cozmeesah wrote:Not exactly fair to include Sizemore in the same shit pile with Choo, guys.

Well, as far as in clutch situations, yes. Grady never really was great in the clutch, even in his All-Star years. Which is why I was kinda like "errrr" when he was put in the 3-hole. I pretty much knew that wouldn't end well. Had to try though. But I wouldn't exactly say he's got his head up his ass. Though I admit the last 6 games haven't been great.

June #'s - .250/.386/.389 Sure, .250 average isn't great but a .386 OBP is. Also, his BB/K in June is 6/13 as opposed to 1/17 in May. So he's getting on base now and looks to be getting at least some plate discipline back. Which may lead to the average going up. Again, he's just not exactly clutch in knocking in the guys on base in front of him, never was. Therefore maybe moving him back to leadoff will work since he's getting on base at a much better clip than before. Leaving the guys who have been a bit better in the clutch (Brantley and Droobs) a chance to drive him in.

Choo is just a mess in general. June #'s - .158/.238/.211 There's nothing good in any of that.

I know everyone will look at ME posting this as "typical" since he's my favorite player. But, all bias aside, looking at the #'s it's not fair to lump him in with Choo. Also taking into consideration that he probably wasn't exactly 100% when coming off the DL the 2nd time.

No I dont think its typical. I acompletely agree. Grady never has been that great of a clutch hitter. I would bat him leadoff or 6-9

by **gotribe31** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:25 pm

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

by **peeker643** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:59 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

That was my assumption and benefit of the doubt. Otherwise I need to re-think my visitation hours.

by **YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:04 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

by **dazindiansfanuk** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:05 pm

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Is there a "sort by bad routes" option?

by **peeker643** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:16 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Is there a "sort by bad routes" option?

Awesome.

Put this immediately into numbers vs. eyes library. Guy takes a more direct route on his drunken drives home.

by **gotribe31** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:56 pm

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Ignoring this for a moment; have you watched Choo play OF this year? If so, do you believe his defense has been "stellar" and that he's one of the top defensive OF in baseball this year?

by **FortheWin** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:59 pm

gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Ignoring this for a moment; have you watched Choo play OF this year? If so, do you believe his defense has been "stellar" and that he's one of the top defensive OF in baseball this year?

He has his moments.

by **gotribe31** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:11 am

FortheWin wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Ignoring this for a moment; have you watched Choo play OF this year? If so, do you believe his defense has been "stellar" and that he's one of the top defensive OF in baseball this year?

He has his moments.

So did General Lee, but the South lost the war.

Regardless, that's not what he said.

by **YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:19 am

gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Ignoring this for a moment; have you watched Choo play OF this year? If so, do you believe his defense has been "stellar" and that he's one of the top defensive OF in baseball this year?

Stellar wasn't the right word to use. Got ahead of myself there, just because he's 2nd in RF doesn't mean he's been playing amazing defense. But, he hasn't been bad by any means.

I will admit living in NY makes it hard for me to watch every game, but I work in a bar so I can usually catch most of the games.

by **pup** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:40 am

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Ignoring this for a moment; have you watched Choo play OF this year? If so, do you believe his defense has been "stellar" and that he's one of the top defensive OF in baseball this year?

Stellar wasn't the right word to use. Got ahead of myself there, just because he's 2nd in RF doesn't mean he's been playing amazing defense. But, he hasn't been bad by any means.

I will admit living in NY makes it hard for me to watch every game, but I work in a bar so I can usually catch most of the games.

Work more. Drink less.

Funny. That is the same advice I would give Choo.

by **leadpipe** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:59 am

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Ignoring this for a moment; have you watched Choo play OF this year? If so, do you believe his defense has been "stellar" and that he's one of the top defensive OF in baseball this year?

Stellar wasn't the right word to use. Got ahead of myself there, just because he's 2nd in RF doesn't mean he's been playing amazing defense. But, he hasn't been bad by any means.

I will admit living in NY makes it hard for me to watch every game, but I work in a bar so I can usually catch most of the games.

This is where you get into trouble with stats.

Cause NOBODY in their right mind who's watched the guy in the outfield this year is going to tell you he's playing it close to well.

He's been as disconnected there as he's been at the plate or on the bases. And he needs a GPS to help him find the most direct route to the ball. Not to mention he still has trouble approaching either wall.

Perhaps every other RF, who I don't see every day really, really blows - but that would need to be true in order for him to rank decently.

I believe the truth lies in the fact that there still aren't defensive stats that are better than the eye.

by **Jumbo** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:32 am

At least as far as the Indians are concerned, UZR makes no sense so far this year. Aside from Choo, Asdrubal Cabrera rates as the worst shortstop in the AL. Remember: even though the defense stats have value, they aren't really effective for evaluation until you have at least the whole year in the books. To take another Asian right fielder for an example, Ichiro Suzuki's UZR this year is -8.3, worst in the AL. Not only is that contrary to his reputation and watching him play, it's also contrary to his career defensive stat history.

Although I agree that UZR isn't enough to say that Choo has been a good fielder, one minor issue: As far as the box score is concerned, the route taken to the ball doesn't matter a whit as long as you caught it.

On the main point, Peeker is right: Cord Phelps' inauspicious first week is enough to show that, even though the reinforcements of AAA may be just as good (or bad) as the guys they replace, they won't actually make a difference in contention if the key hitters - the ones who woudn't be replaced - aren't hitting.

by **TonyIPI** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:57 pm

peeker643 wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Is there a "sort by bad routes" option?

Awesome.

Put this immediately into numbers vs. eyes library. Guy takes a more direct route on his drunken drives home.

Yeah, the stats are really poor in this case and not depicting how awful he has been this year in the outfield. He has a nice arm and is tops in assists, but the defensive prowess ends there. He has been well below average as a defender this year. Guy makes a mistake out there judging a ball or almost misjudging seemingly every night. Poor route runner. Guys entire game save for the arm has gone into the crapper this year.

by **Lokais** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:19 pm

Here's one guy watching Choo tripping over his own glove, running into the wall while the ball lands 50 feet away, and then kicking the ball every time he reaches down to pick it up.

And here's the guy watching only numbers saying "Holy shit, this guy is GOOD!"

by **Lokais** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:20 pm

If I could draw, there'd be a cartoon here somewhere.

by **statmasta** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:23 pm

YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:
gotribe31 wrote:
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! wrote:At least Choo has been playing stellar defense in RF. 2nd best among all major league RFs.

This is sarcasm, yes?

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

Sort by UZR

Ignoring this for a moment; have you watched Choo play OF this year? If so, do you believe his defense has been "stellar" and that he's one of the top defensive OF in baseball this year?

Stellar wasn't the right word to use. Got ahead of myself there, just because he's 2nd in RF doesn't mean he's been playing amazing defense. But, he hasn't been bad by any means.

I will admit living in NY makes it hard for me to watch every game, but I work in a bar so I can usually catch most of the games.

He is bad. He has definitely been bad.

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