Cleveland Indians & MLB

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:14 pm

Top of the first already complete.

Hamilton with a two run jack off Carmona.

Dont wanna play chicken little here, but things appear to be heading south quickly for us here.....Our SP is coming back to earth in a huge way and were still not hitting.

by **Cerebral_DownTime** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:16 pm

I don't think I care for Fausto anymore.

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:16 pm

We made Holland slave through and 8 pitch 1st. The beat goes on.

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:18 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I don't think I care for Fausto anymore.

Ditto. I used to be a fan of his, but he clearly is a massive headcase. Maybe he needs to go back to the set up role. Thats the only spot he really excelled in, besides 1 season in 07 as a starter. Although he was pretty good last year. Hes just way to inconsistent. He drives me insane.

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:32 pm

I cannot believe this teams luck the past few weeks. This is just annoying.

by **statmasta** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:32 pm

Our base running is so atrocious.

by **FortheWin** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:32 pm

by **statmasta** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:35 pm

Who has a lower IQ, Fausto Carmona or Matt LaPorta?

by **FortheWin** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:36 pm

COME ON UMP!!!!
TIM TIMMONS!!!!

by **FortheWin** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:36 pm

statmasta wrote:Who has a lower IQ, Fausto Carmona or Matt LaPorta?

Laporta by a mile.

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:36 pm

HORRIBLE call. Santana clearly had his foot on the bag.

by **Am I Here Again?** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:36 pm

Just came in from gardening, get the game going on-line, and I come in to THIS??? :gah:

Two words: June Swoon.

Symbolic47 wrote:I cannot believe this teams luck the past few weeks. This is just annoying.

So that blown call by Tim Timmons right now...HOW many does that make it in the past week or so? :thumbdown:

by **Am I Here Again?** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:38 pm

statmasta wrote:Who has a lower IQ, Fausto Carmona or Matt LaPorta?

I bet my cat has a higher baseball IQ than either of them...and she's not the sharpest tool in the chest, not the sharpest tack in the box, not the brightest crayon in the tray...you get the idea. ;-) ;) :wink:

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:43 pm

Josh Hamilton scares the hell out of me when hes batting.

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:50 pm

Is it just me or has every team we have faced for the past month played gold glove defense all over the diamond?

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:52 pm

Holy crap its a miracle! The other team hit an atom ball! what do you know

by **FortheWin** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:53 pm

Nice play OC!!

by **FortheWin** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:00 pm

Are the T-storms gonna go through cleveland?

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:05 pm

Quiet night here I see. Guess everyone's out enjoying the weekend.

by **Am I Here Again?** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:11 pm

Not much to say tonight... Quick game, too. Half done and it's just over an hour since it started. OUR guys better start working the Texas pitcher.

by **FortheWin** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:24 pm

Make this guy work!!

by **Jumbo** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:31 pm

Free.

Cord.

Phelps.

by **Jumbo** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:33 pm

Come on Carlos. Gotta make it happen here.

by **Jumbo** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:37 pm

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:37 pm

Boooo

by **Am I Here Again?** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:39 pm

Damn! Thanks Carlos.

From the way Hegan was talking about the ball/strike calls while Santana was at bat it seems like the HP umpire has a rather fluid strike zone depending on how he views the batter's skill. WHY can't umpires be consistent with their strike zones? So far we've had blow calls at first and a moving strike zone for the pitchers. Why can't the umps be accountable for crappy calls???

by **FortheWin** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:45 pm

Damn it.

by **Symbolic47** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:48 pm

Well things are trending south in a hurry

by **CURS1004** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:10 pm

Just curious when the time comes to make some moves whether it be trade or optioned who really has the last call on the move, Acta or Antonetti? Do they also consult the minor league coordinator, just not sure of time factors or actually who is pulling the trigger when the time comes.

One question I cannot determine: Left handed pitcher, Laporta hitting for a higher average than Lou Marson and Santana could still be behind the plate, is this mainly to give Carlos a break behind the plate and is this pretty consistant in the Major League Level, didn't see much in AA or AAA, didn't see these types of moves the last couple of years.

by **Am I Here Again?** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:39 pm

Wow, right now it sucks to be us. *sigh* Right now, in the top of the 8th in ChiTown, Detroit and the White Sux are tied at two. I don't know about you guys but I'm pulling for Ozzie's team right now...

by **skatingtripods** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:07 am

This is a team that is not built to overcome mistakes. It's been a different mistake every night of late. Bad baserunning, errors, pitchers giving up HRs at an alarming rate.

Someone's gotta step up and stop the bleeding. I don't know who it will be, but it has to be someone. If it takes Acta sending a shockwave through the clubhouse, get it done.

At some point, a slump becomes a huge concern. With the remaining schedule for the next 2+ weeks, this is a huge concern.

by **RedDawg53** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:53 am

First game of the year for me tonight. I went ape shit when Everett failed to make it to 3rd base with one out. He's a veteran for chrissakes! Not sure if it would had mattered much, would had been 2-1. You just can't let oppertunities like that go by.

After Fausto gave up a hit in the last inning he pitched.. I noticed Santana was at the mound talking with him. Where was the catcher, Lou Marson? Still at home plate, doing nothing, probably trying to figure out how the hell Onion won the Hotdog Race. It wasn't until the pitching coach came out is when Marson finally jogged to the mound. Where is the communication between pitcher & catcher?? Not sure if Carmona knows english but why have Marson behind the plate then? Lefty/righty mqtch-up, sure. But is beinh able to communicate a big part of the game?

Santana, in what I saw, is still learning where to be positioned during certain situations as the 1st baseman. It was subtle. I saw OCab gesture to Santana where to move over to with a runner on 1st & 2nd. Good to have a veteran presence. These things you cannot see on tv or even notice at the game itself.

Also anyone know of an update on Vinnie? Not sure exactly what he did. My friend said he probably pulled something in his leg sprinting to the pitchers mound.

by **RedDawg53** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:03 am

Oh and I'll drive Everett to the airport to send his ass back home. Someone needs to, judging by the number of Ushers working at the ball park tonight. Which didn't ammount to much.

by **CURS1004** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:07 am

RedDawg

Vinnie has had flu that seemed to get into his lower back, he says he wanted pitch the inning but coach Acta said no way and is day to day, but nothing real serious from what I was told by vinnie.

by **TribeinLA** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 am

Lost 8 of our last 11 games. This is not a "slump" so much as the first 45 games being 100 percent due to Cleveland being the best team in the AL. We are not.

I am worried like hell about this team and now that they're not hitting, somehow the starting pitching is being exposed. I posed a question not 2 weeks ago about being worried about Justin Masterson for THIS season. Many stated I had nothing to worry about and that he was the "ace" of this staff. Now that I have seen Tomlin come back to earth and Carmona looking like 2008 meets 2006 all over again. Hell, I am now hoping that Talbot might actually be our best pitcher. Carrasco has nasty stuff, but really has no clue how to pitch a game the correct way. He'd be a great short story writer and a horible novelist if that analogy makese any sense. The bullpen still has my confidence despite now seeing Tony Sipp look human. I am also a little nervous about the lack of work for Perez lately. I hope he doesn't get cold.

So what do we do? Well, clearly it is is TIME to make a move and I do not mean a Kenny Lofton move. I mean, let's go after a stud hitter to bat between Shoo and Santana and stop relying on hopes that Hafner is going to come back and be healed forever. Hafner had a great start, but he's done as far as talking about his prime. Let's make an offer for David Wright. The Mets are likely sellers or...Let's try to get back Aramis Ramirez and pay that salary for a year. I like Wright, myself. Is this reasonable to think that we could possibly give up young talent for a guy like Wright? I think it's fair to say we need a #2-3 starter. I would love to have a guy like Jake Peavy...hell give me back Jake Westbrook! The problem with elying on what we have now, 1-5, is that none of them have any big game experience except Carmona and we saw how pathetic he was in his final start. Tomlin, I believe, would do well in a pressure-packed game. Let's say we had to play a 1 game playoff to get in the ALDS. I would want him to have the ball. But damn, I do not think any of the five have even played in a College World Series regional. No team can last in the postseason without a veteran guy like a Paul Byrd or a Chuck Finley or a Dave Burba or El Presidente. Who, for a playoff potential team, is going to be the wise old bird who keeps the other 4 starters in calm and collected check and advises them about hitters? Carmona!? Ha! We're better off letting Steve Phillips give the pregame pep talk. Obviously, Dolan and Shapiro didn't plan on this team being in first place in June (after losing 8 of 11) with a 4 game lead. A Paul Byrd could have possible been found. We MUST HAVE that presence in the clubhouse.

I am frustrated by like some of you, I totally saw this coming. I am not sure what is going wrong can be fixed. Do we just sit back and wait for Choo and Santana to both hit .400 for the month of June? Is Sizemore realistically going to perform as he did from 2005-2008? Is LaPorta going to get his head out of his ass and be the player he's supposed to be and move out of the 8 hole? Is Hannahan an overall liability, despite showing good leather? These are the questions that I think link us to our destiny. I feel very comfortable with A Cab, Orlando, and Brantley in the lineup. I wish Orlando would hit a little more -- hell I will take the equivalent to a 2005 Ronnie Belliard. Brantley, meanwhile, is hardly stunning but I think he's go a ton of game still waiting to seep out and he's very intelligent and just a great team player. BUT, can you win a division and then compete in the ALDS when your best three hitters are the Cabreras and Michael Brantley? And suppose Hafner comes back and Sizemore stays healthy, too. Then what of Buck, Kearns, Sloth, and what some thought would be Trevor Crowe's breakthru season? Kearns has little to no trade value. Sloth is a bench player no matter where he goes. I like Buck and think he stays healthy and provides us some QAB's...but 4 hitter? Come on! If Travis Buck is your cleanup hitter then you're the Nationals or the Royals or some team. Surely we can fork out some bucks and/or make a solid trade and get a REAL cleanup hitter. NO knock on Buck, but that's just not his forte. The bottom line here is that Shapiro has been using the same formula with hitters...moderately good and cheap and in some cases past prime corner platoon firstbasemen and OF's and well, we haven't done much due to any of them. 2007 was won on 2 aces and a good playoff vet pitcher, along with amazing timely 9th inning dramatics. Jason Michaels and Pie Nixon and Dellucci were not the reason. Eduardo Perez and Ben Broussard was a waste when we could have just kept Thome around.

I hope to God that we do not wait on a move and hope that it's not Joe Borowski who shows back up in Cleveland. WHy do I have a feeling that Shapiro just "lets her ride" and whatever happens happens. This year was not part of the "success timetable" that's 2 years removed from Wichita State Wedge. If we lose 15 in a row and fall behind the White Sox and Tigers, do we do anything about it? I mean damn...are we REALLY taking this season seriously or looking at it as 1993-like? I hope John Hart calls up his former sidekick and tells him what to do.

by **leadpipe** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:30 am

skatingtripods wrote:This is a team that is not built to overcome mistakes. It's been a different mistake every night of late. Bad baserunning, errors, pitchers giving up HRs at an alarming rate.

Someone's gotta step up and stop the bleeding. I don't know who it will be, but it has to be someone. If it takes Acta sending a shockwave through the clubhouse, get it done.

At some point, a slump becomes a huge concern. With the remaining schedule for the next 2+ weeks, this is a huge concern.

This is pretty spot on, and I would add - what looks to be a pretty poor offensive team from the last month, and from here on out, combined with the fact there is no "stopper" in the rotation, tells me that this team is going to proned to some prolong slumps. That's a pretty good recipe for them anyway.

The season has played out opposite of what I thought, figured the Tribe would have pitching issues. As it turns out, the pitching has been pretty good, and upon further review of the division - even with the pitching getting a bit roughed up as of late, it still is on par with anyone in the division. But the offense is lagging behind - and getting worse.

If you look at the line-up on a nightly basis, it's hard to find a 6-9 that's worse in the league, and you're also many nights sesing a Duncan, a Buck or a struggling Santana in the clean-up hole. And your big gun is not up to snuff yet either. I think, when 7-8-9 are LF, 1B and 3B - 3 positions you need to generate offense from, you put yourself behind the 8 ball.

Detroit is going to be a problem ILO. With Verlander establishing himself as a dominant starter and "stopper" (along with Porcello turning the corner) and Miggy being Miggy....petty solid make-up for the long haul.

And reason 5,645 why blaming managers is futile, cause it was all Manny Acta hand jobs based on a few bunts earlier in the season, now they can't run the bases (just like last year) and this won't be Acta's fault, whereas if it were Wedge, we'd be hearing about it every night. The manager ain't winning or losing the Tribe jack-shit. Players gotta play.

by **Prosecutor** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:23 am

It looks like the Tribe was playing way over its head in April. The team as a whole hit well over .300 with RISP, and there's no way they could keep that up. Marson, Hannahan, and Orlando Cabrera hit well above their norms in April. Now they're all regressing to the norm. Marson is below .200, Hanny is down to his .225 career average, and OCab is down to about .250. That and Hafner's injury has really impacted the offense.

On top of that Choo is in a season-long slump and admitted he is pressing. The legal implications of the drunk driving case are also probably affecting his concentration.

Three starting pitchers went down for various lengths of time; Talbot, Carrasco, and White. And the schedule got a lot tougher in May. If the Tribe was not in such a weak division they'd be in 3rd or 4th place by now.

Still, there's been a lot of good news and things are looking good for 2012 and beyond. This year I think we're looking at about a .500 finish, or possibly a little better if Hafner comes back 100% and Choo can get back to normal. Playing so many games against the Twins, White Sox, and Royals helps.

by **Bigfist** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:29 am

To Red Dawg...Carmona's English is just fine. Even as a 20 year old in Kinston, his English was pretty good, at least compared to many that have come through here. Whether he prefers Santana over Marson is a whole separate issue.

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