Cleveland Indians & MLB

by **Lokais** » Wed May 18, 2011 10:59 am

The concept is kind of a joke, as you pretty much never agree with how they are ranked, but this comment struck me as even dumber than usual.

In an ideal world (and column), the Indians would've been lapped by a few teams last week, making it easier to demote them down into the 5-7 range where they belong. Alas, nobody stepped up. So congratulations, I guess. ... There are ominous signs, though: the first hints of the inevitable rotation regression, Grady Sizemore's latest injury crawlabout, the refusal of Carlos Santana and Shin-Soo Choo to participate in ritualistic deslumpifications. Then there's the weather-tampered schedule. Through Sunday, the Indians had played the fewest games of any MLB team; they'd played four fewer than the White Sox. This portends some bullpen drag when the makeup-game bills come due. And beware the Reds/Red Sox/Rays schedule trifecta that looms a few dark days away. ... So basically, yeah, we're all trying to get a head start on trumpeting their demise, for reasons that have everything to do with our expectations and nothing to do with reality. Except the Josh-Tomlin-will-revert-to-sucking part. That's pure inevitability.

Bolding is mine. So let me get this straight, the best team in baseball right now actually belongs in the 5-7 range because you don't THINK they deserve to be at #1, even though you put them there? Because a team that exceeds expectations must be flawed, not the expectations themselves made long before a single pitch had even been thrown?

And let me also try to understand the second thing. The Indians aren't as good as other teams because they have been rained out? Does it not matter that 2 of those rain outs came against a terrible Seattle Mariners team? And that the 3rd was against arguably the worst team in baseball right now? Or how about all the other teams that have been rained out this year? Like, you know, pretty much all of them.

Sheesh. I wish I had a job where I didn't have to even try.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/powerrankings

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:04 am

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:05 am

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:05 am

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:05 am

by **Lokais** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:07 am

I just think the best part is how he begrudgingly puts them in #1 even though they don't deserve it because he didn't think they would be good back in January.

by **British_Pharaoh** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:43 am

Tomlin will go back to sucking???

Excuse me but he never sucked. He's still on the quality start streak to begin his season.

And has gone at least 5 innings in every game he has ever started.

Normally I will agree if a guy doesn't seem to have the makings for prolonged success (to this kind of extent) and say that he will coem down to earth but he has a 0.85 WHIP

If you're allowing less than 1 baserunner per inning you're going to be good and it's not based on luck.

by **rebelwithoutaclue** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:55 am

Bolding is mine. So let me get this straight, the best team in baseball right now actually belongs in the 5-7 range because you don't THINK they deserve to be at #1, even though you put them there? Because a team that exceeds expectations must be flawed, not the expectations themselves made long before a single pitch had even been thrown?

You think that's ridiculous? Fangraphs has the Indians ranked 20th BEHIND the White Sox because of their computer formula being mostly based on, get this... preseason fan voting! It's actually a combination of team WAR and preseason fan voting but you get the point. You'll never guess who the #1 and 2# teams are...

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fangraphs-power-rankings-51611/#more-50405

by **motherscratcher** » Wed May 18, 2011 12:02 pm

I'm not cure why this kind of thing pisses anyone off. They are power rankings. They are basically a ranking of how good this guy thinks the teams are. He has to base it on his view of their performance, schedule, record, stats, roster, and a whole shitload of things.

It's not, I repeat NOT, just a list of team records in order from best to worst. What the hell would the point of that be? We already know what the teams records are. This guy thinks that the Indians are probably around the 5-7th best team in MLB right now. Maybe that's too low. Maybe not. I do know that it's still pretty damn good. And I do know that some really good teams got off to rocky starts. I'm not convinced that the Indians are actually better than teams like the Red Sox, Rays, Yankees, and Phillies, despite our better record.

I mean, are you ABSOLUTELY convinced of that?

Power rankings are what they are, one guy's opinion. You may disagree, but I don't understand getting bent about it.

by **Lokais** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:30 pm

I'm not mad. I just find it funny. And as I said in the first post, I know they are silly, but his reasoning isn't even sound. Since a power ranking is one guys opinion of a team at a certain specific point in time, than that one guy can put the Indians in 5-7 if he wants to. Not put them in first and say they should be 5-7. And using rain outs to justify it makes no sense. That's all.

by **Toxicadam** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:29 pm

I don't see what the problem is. History has shown that young guys begin to falter as a season wears on and this team is loaded with youth. Especially in the starting pitching staff. So, as the regression happens, it's going to mean more losses.

I guess the X factor in all of this is our offense. I think the Indians offense is one of the best in the AL. That might be enough to offset some of the pitching regression we are going to see.

You can't really blame the mainstream guys for being doubters. You can count the successful 40-50 million dollar payroll teams on one hand. History is on their side to be skeptics.

by **The Brook** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:37 pm

I think the 2nd point is pretty legit. Bullpen has been able to rest because of the rainouts, and when we have to make up the games it will really be a strain on the pitching staff overall.

by **skatingtripods** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:39 pm

I understand the skepticism. People have been talking about our weak schedule and guys overachieving all season long.

What it doesn't change is the fact that we've won 26 of 37 and have been impressive doing so. Beat up the scrubs, play a little over .500 against the good teams.

Power rankings are about nothing more than clicks. You're feeding the monster with a thread like this.

by **cozmeesah** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:41 pm

I think a couple of you are missing Lokais' point. He's not saying that the guy is an ass just for thinking they're not this good or won't keep it up, nor is he saying they won't level off.

He's saying it's the CBS guy's own personal power rankings so it's odd that he didn't just put them down at 5-7 if that's really where he thinks they belong. Also how it's very silly that a reason he uses to back up his opinion is that they've played less games. Which is not their fault and has nothing to do with how good or bad they are.

Using the word "revert" in reference to Tomlin shows flawed thinking as well. As "to revert" is to go back to something you were before. Tomlin was never bad up here, so he can't revert to that. He can "regress" to sucking but not "revert" to it.

I don't think he's knocking the guy for his opinion of the team, just his odd "support" for said opinion.

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 3:12 pm

Our bullpen has been rested because out starting pitchers are averaging 6.1 IP per game.

by **Lokais** » Wed May 18, 2011 3:31 pm

cozmeesah wrote:I think a couple of you are missing Lokais' point. He's not saying that the guy is an ass just for thinking they're not this good or won't keep it up, nor is he saying they won't level off.

He's saying it's the CBS guy's own personal power rankings so it's odd that he didn't just put them down at 5-7 if that's really where he thinks they belong. Also how it's very silly that a reason he uses to back up his opinion is that they've played less games. Which is not their fault and has nothing to do with how good or bad they are.

Using the word "revert" in reference to Tomlin shows flawed thinking as well. As "to revert" is to go back to something you were before. Tomlin was never bad up here, so he can't revert to that. He can "regress" to sucking but not "revert" to it.

I don't think he's knocking the guy for his opinion of the team, just his odd "support" for said opinion.

Bingo.

by **XUDawg** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:18 pm

by **bookelly** » Wed May 18, 2011 7:59 pm

by **FUDU** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:01 pm

motherscratcher wrote:I'm not cure why this kind of thing pisses anyone off. They are power rankings. They are basically a ranking of how good this guy thinks the teams are. He has to base it on his view of their performance, schedule, record, stats, roster, and a whole shitload of things.

It's not, I repeat NOT, just a list of team records in order from best to worst. What the hell would the point of that be? We already know what the teams records are. This guy thinks that the Indians are probably around the 5-7th best team in MLB right now. Maybe that's too low. Maybe not. I do know that it's still pretty damn good. And I do know that some really good teams got off to rocky starts. I'm not convinced that the Indians are actually better than teams like the Red Sox, Rays, Yankees, and Phillies, despite our better record.

I mean, are you ABSOLUTELY convinced of that?

Power rankings are what they are, one guy's opinion. You may disagree, but I don't understand getting bent about it.

While I agree with your general point, I always took PR to be more of an in depth ranking method other than just saying team with most wins is better than team with fewer wins. IOW the opinion originates from some sort of more in depth evaluation of the line up and staff and often incorporates some stats, and definitely includes up to date schedule analysis. Maybe that is why people get bent b/c the Tribe is doing well in many of those areas?

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:36 pm

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:36 pm

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:37 pm

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:37 pm

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:38 pm

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:39 pm

by **Lokais** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:55 pm

I'm saving all these for your next Shapiro hate post.

by **e0y2e3** » Wed May 18, 2011 8:57 pm

by **Commodore Perry** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:05 pm

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:24 pm

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:25 pm

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:25 pm

by **redneckofsc** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:26 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:

Got to be honest, this one might top them all.

by **motherscratcher** » Wed May 18, 2011 9:32 pm

Lokais wrote:
cozmeesah wrote:I think a couple of you are missing Lokais' point. He's not saying that the guy is an ass just for thinking they're not this good or won't keep it up, nor is he saying they won't level off.

He's saying it's the CBS guy's own personal power rankings so it's odd that he didn't just put them down at 5-7 if that's really where he thinks they belong. Also how it's very silly that a reason he uses to back up his opinion is that they've played less games. Which is not their fault and has nothing to do with how good or bad they are.

Using the word "revert" in reference to Tomlin shows flawed thinking as well. As "to revert" is to go back to something you were before. Tomlin was never bad up here, so he can't revert to that. He can "regress" to sucking but not "revert" to it.

I don't think he's knocking the guy for his opinion of the team, just his odd "support" for said opinion.

Bingo.

Gotcha

by **rebelwithoutaclue** » Thu May 19, 2011 12:27 am

by **rebelwithoutaclue** » Thu May 19, 2011 12:32 am

by **British_Pharaoh** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:15 am

Commodore Perry wrote:

Brilliant

by **British_Pharaoh** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:18 am

by **Jumbo** » Mon May 23, 2011 11:37 am

Most accurate power rankings ever:

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/5/23/2185169/mlb-power-rankings-chicago-white-sox-new-york-yankees-news

by **WiscTribeFan** » Mon May 23, 2011 11:45 am

Jumbo wrote:Most accurate power rankings ever:

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/5/23/2185169/mlb-power-rankings-chicago-white-sox-new-york-yankees-news

Brian's not going to like this, although the Eckstein/Middle Earth thing was pretty damn funny.

13. Los Angeles Dodgers - Jamey Carroll
It’s not necessarily Carroll's personally that puts him here, but the type of player he represents. Now that David Eckstein is relaxing at a beachfront condo somewhere in Middle-Earth, Carroll is the best example of a scrappy middle infielder. And, man, those guys tend to foul off 12 pitches before fisting a pitch over second for an RBI single. Carroll stands in for the entire genre.

by **peeker643** » Mon May 23, 2011 12:21 pm

WiscTribeFan wrote:
Jumbo wrote:Most accurate power rankings ever:

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/5/23/2185169/mlb-power-rankings-chicago-white-sox-new-york-yankees-news

Brian's not going to like this, although the Eckstein/Middle Earth thing was pretty damn funny.

13. Los Angeles Dodgers - Jamey Carroll
It’s not necessarily Carroll's personally that puts him here, but the type of player he represents. Now that David Eckstein is relaxing at a beachfront condo somewhere in Middle-Earth, Carroll is the best example of a scrappy middle infielder. And, man, those guys tend to foul off 12 pitches before fisting a pitch over second for an RBI single. Carroll stands in for the entire genre.

Bastards.

Never should Jamey Carroll be mentioned in the same article as AJ Pierzynski and the Yankees unless it's a compare and contrast situation.

Most inflammatory piece in 'journalism' history.

by **Lokais** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:15 pm

Ummm, does this guy look at this forum or something. Here's his blurb this week:

You've got the league's best record and run differential. You're on pace to win something like 108 games. Does it really matter if some media halfwit fails to celebrate these undeniable truths with an OMG U R THE BEST!!! notation in a silly rankings column... or if he wonders whether the defense will keep catching everything hitters put in play; if the pitching staff's middling strikeout numbers portend a course correction ahead; or whether Josh Tomlin might ultimately settle in as a No. 4/5, rather than the No. 1 he's been in nine -- not 30 or 80 or 244 -- April and May starts (actual reader email from last week: "He throws strikes, keeps the ball in the park and does not get rattled. Hmmm... same thing they said of [Greg] Maddox (sic) when he was young.")? I do love that Cleveland fans are ready to fall in love again post-LeBron, though. ... Judging by my email, Tribe apostles caught the weekend series against the Reds but not the one against the White Sox that preceded it. ... To repeat what was written in this space three weeks ago: I am on your side. I like your players, your manager, your management, your minimalist uniforms and your ballpark, which I will refer to as "The Jake" until I am legally enjoined from doing so. It will make my heart soar with the joy of a thousand Christmas mornings if the Indians emerge from this Boston/Tampa/Toronto/Texas schedule stretch with their competitive bona fides intact. I'm just skeptical by nature. If you must, blame my parents.

Also, who was it that compared Tomlin to Maddux here? Was that you emailing him? Come clean...

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/powerrankings

Cleveland Indians & MLB

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