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Josh Tomlin

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Josh Tomlin

Unread postby redneckofsc » Tue May 17, 2011 8:54 am

Tomlin has the 2nd lowest WHIP in all of baseball, at .85. Haren is first with a .84.

He is tied for the 2nd fewest walks of all that qualify. Haren has the fewest with 8. Guthrie is tied with Tomlin with 9. Colon suprisingly has the 4th lowest.

4th in fewest hits allowed.

14th in K/BB.

10th in pitches per plate appearance.

2nd in lowest pitches per inning.

9th in ERA.

Tied for 4th in wins.

Tied for 2nd in quality starts (8 out of 9), Verlander is first.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby smalls1129 » Tue May 17, 2011 10:45 am

His style is starting to remind me of a pitcher who came up in the late 80's for the Cubs. Relies on accuracy and keeping hitters guessing, and he was up for a decent while last year so there should be somewhat of a book on him and as of yet he's stayed one step ahead of the hitters. Very promising, at this rate I would say his ceiling is between Jake Westbrook and that other pitcher whom I will not name.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby TonyIPI » Tue May 17, 2011 12:34 pm

Tomlin has been incredible this year and in his year-plus start to his career. At some point he is going to struggle, and it is then that will prove whether he is for real or not. I said it a few weeks ago, but to me he is the MVP so far of the pitching staff, if not the entire team. You expect Carmona to do what he does, and Masterson has always had the talent....but no one expected this from Tomlin and to get that much needed third guy in a rotation giving quality start after quality start has been HUGE.

Great kid, and great story. Have talked to him so many times during his times in the minors with interviews and still keep in touch via texts and also with his family. Down to earth quiet guy who is a very simple person...likes to hunt, drink beer, and have fun.

With the way he pitches, there certainly some Maddux-like comparisons for sure. Doesn't have the precision control (yet) nor the great secondary stuff, but certainly pitches a lot like him at times and lives off pitching with intelligence and guts moreso than on pure stuff.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Tue May 17, 2011 12:45 pm

He's fun to watch too. Even with the 19 runs the offense was pouring on, it was still just as fun to watch Tomlin pitch. He's quick, fires strikes and makes batters look ridiculous. What's better then seeing Tomlin blow an 89 mph fastball by a hitter, who's then just left with a look of confusion on his face.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue May 17, 2011 1:31 pm

He's got boulder-sized testicles. Never fazed. Loves to attack hitters. I'm a big fan.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby bac5665 » Tue May 17, 2011 1:40 pm

Tomlin's been great. Doing me some good in fantasy too.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby swerb » Tue May 17, 2011 1:40 pm

skatingtripods wrote:He's got boulder-sized testicles. Never fazed. Loves to attack hitters. I'm a big fan.

What Adam said. Dude has massive gonads and is calm, cool, and collected. Makes big pitches in big situations. Love watching him pitch.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue May 17, 2011 1:59 pm

Maddux threw harder at the same stage of his career. 92-94 is different than 89-90. Tomlin has been outstanding but he's not in the Maddux category. I know we love to put the relative soft tossers into that category but Maddux wasn't always upper 80's and as others mentioned Maddux always had that ability to throw to a baseball-sized zone on either side of the plate.

For what it's worth Buff's closest comp is Paul Byrd.

I don't know if Tomlin is Byrd but I don't see him as Maddux either. Plenty of zip codes between the two. Maddux had 75 wins before he was 26 and had thrown a thousand innings before his first Cy Young season. Maddux is also a Top 10 pitcher of all time if you believe Baseball Reference (and he's clearly one of the best I've ever seen).

That said, you hear a lot about Tomlin regressing to his mean but he keeps actually progressing.

He's fun to watch because he competes and throws strikes for sure.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby statmasta » Tue May 17, 2011 2:04 pm

Let's stop trying to compare him to people.

How many right-handed starters are there whose fastball sits at 86-88 and he can still not only get guys out, but dominate?

Nobody I can think of immediately. Tomlin's one of a kind.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby redneckofsc » Tue May 17, 2011 2:08 pm

Joe Borowski topped out at 86, but he didnt exactly dominate
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Tue May 17, 2011 2:13 pm

Tomlin's done it throughout his career..... people have written him off as not much of a prospect with mediocre stuff and he's continually produced in spite of all that.

Let's be realistic, he's not THIS good.... he's not going to finish the year with an ERA in the 2's and allowing a BAA under .200. That said, I expect him to continue to pitch well enough to give us a chance to win games because, plain and simply, that's what he does!

The kid had a .680 win pct in the minor leagues for a reason and that reason wasn't his stuff!
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue May 17, 2011 2:15 pm

statmasta wrote:Let's stop trying to compare him to people.

How many right-handed starters are there whose fastball sits at 86-88 and he can still not only get guys out, but dominate?

Nobody I can think of immediately. Tomlin's one of a kind.


I'll appreciate his dominance when it exits after 50 starts or so and it has continued after each team has seen him a time or two.

But I'll enjoy it for as long as it lasts for sure.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby smalls1129 » Tue May 17, 2011 3:14 pm

That's why I wouldn't mention Maddux by name, because of the short amount of time he's done it. But this is already the third time he's faced the Royals this year so it's not like teams haven't had an opportunity to adjust to him. And Peek I think your over valuing Maddux's fastball, he may have hit 93 but he lived around 88-89 with precise control and changing speeds, which is exactly how Tomlin's thriving right now.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby statmasta » Tue May 17, 2011 3:16 pm

peeker643 wrote:
statmasta wrote:Let's stop trying to compare him to people.

How many right-handed starters are there whose fastball sits at 86-88 and he can still not only get guys out, but dominate?

Nobody I can think of immediately. Tomlin's one of a kind.


I'll appreciate his dominance when it exits after 50 starts or so and it has continued after each team has seen him a time or two.

But I'll enjoy it for as long as it lasts for sure.

Yeah, I have no idea what to expect from him in the long haul, but this run sure has been fun.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby statmasta » Tue May 17, 2011 3:17 pm

smalls1129 wrote:That's why I wouldn't mention Maddux by name, because of the short amount of time he's done it. But this is already the third time he's faced the Royals this year so it's not like teams haven't had an opportunity to adjust to him. And Peek I think your over valuing Maddux's fastball, he may have hit 93 but he lived around 88-89 with precise control and changing speeds, which is exactly how Tomlin's thriving right now.

Maddux also had crazy movement on his fastball. He could throw it right at a lefty and it'd end up on the inside corner.

Tomlin's fastball is straight.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby peeker643 » Tue May 17, 2011 3:18 pm

smalls1129 wrote:That's why I wouldn't mention Maddux by name, because of the short amount of time he's done it. But this is already the third time he's faced the Royals this year so it's not like teams haven't had an opportunity to adjust to him. And Peek I think your over valuing Maddux's fastball, he may have hit 93 but he lived around 88-89 with precise control and changing speeds, which is exactly how Tomlin's thriving right now.


The last third of Maddux's career I think you're right Smalls. But Maddux threw harder at that 26-32 yrs of age. I have no empirical evidence to back that up other than fading memories so I wouldn't go to my death clinging to it. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby smalls1129 » Tue May 17, 2011 3:25 pm

peeker643 wrote:
smalls1129 wrote:That's why I wouldn't mention Maddux by name, because of the short amount of time he's done it. But this is already the third time he's faced the Royals this year so it's not like teams haven't had an opportunity to adjust to him. And Peek I think your over valuing Maddux's fastball, he may have hit 93 but he lived around 88-89 with precise control and changing speeds, which is exactly how Tomlin's thriving right now.


The last third of Maddux's career I think you're right Smalls. But Maddux threw harder at that 26-32 yrs of age. I have no empirical evidence to back that up other than fading memories so I wouldn't go to my death clinging to it. ;-) ;) :wink:


You might be right, my memory might be fading, but thanks to WGN and then TBS I grew up idolising Maddux and never missing a start. And statsmasta you might be right about movement but I'm stuck in SC so can only go by hammy's call and the kids just continues to get the job done.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby metalhead9x9 » Tue May 17, 2011 3:29 pm

Tomlin reminds me more of Mark Buerhle. Mediocre stuff but backed up by moxie, good control, and relentless pacing.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby Jumbo » Tue May 17, 2011 4:39 pm

You have to admit, this board has gone a little bit insane when Josh Tomlin can be casually compared to Greg Maddux and nobody immediately says, "Wait a minute! That's completely insane!"

Next thing you know, there will be comparisons of Michael Brantley to Rickey Henderson, Jack Hannahan to Brooks Robinson, and Carlos Santana to Buster Posey!

;-) ;) :wink:

Really, what set Maddux apart (and Rob Neyer wrote a few really good articles on this back in the day) was his intense preparation and understanding going into games. It wasn't just that his location and command were perfect, but also that his location and command were perfect at taking advantage of the weaknesses of each hitter he faced.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue May 17, 2011 4:53 pm

I'd also read that Maddux was so into the mental angle of the game that he'd intentionally pitch guys a certain way in spring training games as a way of setting them up for the regular season.

Most guys are just trying to get their work in those games. He was setting guys up before the season even started.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue May 17, 2011 6:18 pm

After the Indians the top four scoring teams in the A.L. are the Yankees, Texas, Detroit, and Toronto. Tomlin hasn't faced any of them, which means he hasn't faced any of the top five scoring teams.

Not that he's been completely feasting on weak offenses. KC is 6th in scoring, or slightly above average, and he's given them only 4 ERs in three starts. He pitched against Seattle, Oakland, and Baltimore, all of whom are at or near the bottom in scoring. Let's see how he does on the road against NY, Texas, Detroit, and Toronto. And Cincinnati if he draws them.

But damn, he sure looks fantastic so far. If they had to pick the All-Star team today, I don't know how they could justify not taking him.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue May 17, 2011 7:39 pm

WiscTribeFan wrote:I'd also read that Maddux was so into the mental angle of the game that he'd intentionally pitch guys a certain way in spring training games as a way of setting them up for the regular season.

Most guys are just trying to get their work in those games. He was setting guys up before the season even started.


This is awesome. I'd love to know where you read that. Was it a book or an article?
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Tue May 17, 2011 8:55 pm

Peeker wrote:For what it's worth Buff's closest comp is Paul Byrd.



statmasta wrote:How many right-handed starters are there whose fastball sits at 86-88 and he can still not only get guys out, but dominate?

Nobody I can think of immediately. Tomlin's one of a kind.



I'd say his closest comparison is Shaun Marcum, now pitching (and dominating) for the Brewers and formerly on the Blue Jays. I have him on my fantasy team and had never seen him pitch, even while on the Jays, so I watched a Brewers game earlier in the year that he started and was very surprised. He tops out at 89 and has a good 4 pitch arsenal to get guys out without throwing smoke.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue May 17, 2011 10:03 pm

The percocet I'm on right now must be AWESOME. I could swear that I'm reading people on this board compare Josh Tomlin to Greg Maddux. I should probably take it every 6 hrs instead of every 4 though...this is a little freaky.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Tue May 17, 2011 10:33 pm

OK, I know Smiff's outing was painful but PERCOCET? Isn't that just a tad extreme? I'm good enough with a nip of Bourbon...
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby gotribe31 » Tue May 17, 2011 11:12 pm

Am I Here Again? wrote:OK, I know Smiff's outing was painful but PERCOCET? Isn't that just a tad extreme? I'm good enough with a nip of Bourbon...


I should clarify that a doctor perscribed me the percocet because he cut a hole in my back and took a small piece out from inside of it. Although it did make Smith easier to tolerate tonight. Win-win.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Tue May 17, 2011 11:16 pm

Oh...OUCH! Hubby's had two back thingies. One required surgery and the other resolved with PT. He's due for another one if I don't start cooking "skinny" soon.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby TonyIPI » Wed May 18, 2011 12:38 am

I don't think anyone is saying Tomlin is Maddux, just there are some comparisons with his lack of velocity but his pitching smarts, exceptional preparation, ability to change eye levels, and guts. I think a more favorable true comp would be Charlie Nagy....but Nagy with a set of gonads. Could have a career similar to his and be our third best pitcher on the team for a long time like Nagy was.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed May 18, 2011 8:03 am

I like the Nagy comp, but he can be better than Nagy. Charles benefitted from some great offensive teams in the late 90's. A few Nagy seasons -

17-11, 4.95 ERA
15-10, 5.22
16-6, 4.55

I know he was pitching in the steroid era so I suppose you have to adjust those ERA's downward a bit to get a true comparison to Tomlin, but Tomlin is well below those ERA's so he has a chance to have a better career, IMO.

OTOH, at age 25 Nagy went 17-10 with a 2.96 ERA. Tomlin is already 26 so he's behind a bit. We'll see if he an keep it going or if the league will eventually catch up. Like I said, he hasn't faced any of the top offenses yet.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed May 18, 2011 10:12 am

TonyIPI wrote:I don't think anyone is saying Tomlin is Maddux, just there are some comparisons with his lack of velocity but his pitching smarts, exceptional preparation, ability to change eye levels, and guts.


Right.

So Paul Byrd and maybe Charlie Nagy are also comps.

Although no one would look back and compare Nagy or Byrd to Maddux.

Point being, once again, no one else in all of baseball, not media members, fans or front office people, except people here, would even think of comparing Josh Tomlin to Greg Maddux.

Kinda like every soft tossing lefty we've had here has been compared to Jamie Moyer at one time or another before they were released or demoted. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby scrambler » Wed May 18, 2011 11:41 am

TonyIPI wrote:I don't think anyone is saying Tomlin is Maddux, just there are some comparisons with his lack of velocity but his pitching smarts, exceptional preparation, ability to change eye levels, and guts. I think a more favorable true comp would be Charlie Nagy....but Nagy with a set of gonads. Could have a career similar to his and be our third best pitcher on the team for a long time like Nagy was.


Really?? How quickly we forget. Game 6 of the 1997 ALCS was one of the greatest clutch performances in the history of Cleveland sports by Nagy. Mussina was completely unhittable in the post season in 1997...completely. Nagy was tasked with allowing zero runs to have a chance to win that game. Similar to what CC had to do against Beckett in 2007 game 5. Mussina was 2-0 in the ALDS against Seattle with an ERA under 1 then struck out 15 in 7 innings in game 3 against Cleveland. Nagy did what CC couldn't do. Mussina gave up 1 hit in 8 that game, Nagy allowed 9 hits, 3 walks and hit a batter in 7.1 innings and none of them scored. The Indians then won the battle of the bullpens. I would not have liked the Tribe's chances going to game 7 in Camden Yards...judging how Hershiser pitched in the WS not sure how his game 7 would have gone. The Mesa perhaps never happens without this massive gonad performance by Mr Nagy in game 6 of the ALCS. Again one of the greatest clutch performances in the history of Cleveland sports.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Wed May 18, 2011 2:40 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
WiscTribeFan wrote:I'd also read that Maddux was so into the mental angle of the game that he'd intentionally pitch guys a certain way in spring training games as a way of setting them up for the regular season.

Most guys are just trying to get their work in those games. He was setting guys up before the season even started.


This is awesome. I'd love to know where you read that. Was it a book or an article?


I can't recall right now, to be honest. I'm pretty sure it was during his final year with the Cubs a couple of years ago. It might have even been a second hand type of a story. I'll see if I can dig it up...
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby redneckofsc » Wed May 18, 2011 2:43 pm

scrambler wrote:
TonyIPI wrote:I don't think anyone is saying Tomlin is Maddux, just there are some comparisons with his lack of velocity but his pitching smarts, exceptional preparation, ability to change eye levels, and guts. I think a more favorable true comp would be Charlie Nagy....but Nagy with a set of gonads. Could have a career similar to his and be our third best pitcher on the team for a long time like Nagy was.


Really?? How quickly we forget. Game 6 of the 1997 ALCS was one of the greatest clutch performances in the history of Cleveland sports by Nagy. Mussina was completely unhittable in the post season in 1997...completely. Nagy was tasked with allowing zero runs to have a chance to win that game. Similar to what CC had to do against Beckett in 2007 game 5. Mussina was 2-0 in the ALDS against Seattle with an ERA under 1 then struck out 15 in 7 innings in game 3 against Cleveland. Nagy did what CC couldn't do. Mussina gave up 1 hit in 8 that game, Nagy allowed 9 hits, 3 walks and hit a batter in 7.1 innings and none of them scored. The Indians then won the battle of the bullpens. I would not have liked the Tribe's chances going to game 7 in Camden Yards...judging how Hershiser pitched in the WS not sure how his game 7 would have gone. The Mesa perhaps never happens without this massive gonad performance by Mr Nagy in game 6 of the ALCS. Again one of the greatest clutch performances in the history of Cleveland sports.


Second to Sandy, who gave Mo Rivera, I believe his only loss ever in the playoffs....I could be wrong.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Wed May 18, 2011 2:52 pm

Found it. It may have been excerpted from another interview, but it gives the crux of what I remembered....

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010 ... -pitchers/
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby scrambler » Wed May 18, 2011 3:12 pm

Second to Sandy, who gave Mo Rivera, I believe his only loss ever in the playoffs....I could be wrong.[/quote]

He also lost game 7 of the '01 World Series. Actually game 7 was his only loss as the Sandy homer only tied the game. Someone else took the loss.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby scrambler » Wed May 18, 2011 3:21 pm

I guess my only point was that we will be extremely, extremely lucky if Josh Tomlin turns out to be as good as Charles Nagy. And the claim that guy had no gonads is beyond ludicrous.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby redneckofsc » Wed May 18, 2011 4:19 pm

scrambler wrote:Second to Sandy, who gave Mo Rivera, I believe his only loss ever in the playoffs....I could be wrong.


He also lost game 7 of the '01 World Series. Actually game 7 was his only loss as the Sandy homer only tied the game. Someone else took the loss.[/quote]


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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby Bigfist » Wed May 18, 2011 6:04 pm

scrambler wrote:Second to Sandy, who gave Mo Rivera, I believe his only loss ever in the playoffs....I could be wrong.


He also lost game 7 of the '01 World Series. Actually game 7 was his only loss as the Sandy homer only tied the game. Someone else took the loss.[/quote]



Ramiro Mendoza was the guy. Torre wanted to save Rivera, in the event he was needed to close out game 5, and it never happened.
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Re: Josh Tomlin

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed May 18, 2011 6:29 pm

Nagy was a winner. He won 129 games in his career, which was basically over at age 32. If Tomlin can match that by winning 118 games over the next 7-8 years he'll have done very well.

Maybe I'm recalling Nagy towards the end of his career, but he used to drive me crazy with his nibbling at the edges of the strike zone. It seemed like he was always falling behind the hitters trying to get them to swing at a bad pitch. Tomlin goes right after them and is almost always working ahead in the count. One thing they have in common is if they make a bad pitch it gets hit a long way.
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