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Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby OldDawg » Sun May 08, 2011 10:33 pm

leadpipe wrote:What was the Breathalyzer on Choo after that 8th inning drunken route to the ball?

Would he have gone "right of center?"
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Mon May 09, 2011 5:55 am

I'm not disappointed with 3-3 but the manner in which we lost makes it difficult not to moan about how we should be 4-2 and 5.5 games ahead of KC.

One thing we can take away from this road trip is that we faced the 2 best pitching staffs and haven't lost a single game lead in the Central.

We just need to weather the storm of the Tampa Bay pitching at home and then it ends a tough opening to the month of May.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon May 09, 2011 8:46 am

Prosecutor wrote:Sipp pitched in three of the last four games coming into today so I think Manny decided he wasn't going to use him no matter what.


No reason a professional pitcher can't throw 15-20 pitches every day. Unless he's injured, get him out there. Yes, every day. Especially if it could mean the difference between a win and a loss.

And if he can't, they need to do a better job of conditioning.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon May 09, 2011 10:21 am

Erie Warrior wrote:No reason a professional pitcher can't throw 15-20 pitches every day. Unless he's injured, get him out there. Yes, every day. Especially if it could mean the difference between a win and a loss.

And if he can't, they need to do a better job of conditioning.


Find me a team in the league that adopts this philosophy.

You're also talking about a guy with a surgically repaired elbow a few seasons ago.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon May 09, 2011 10:35 am

skatingtripods wrote: Find me a team in the league that adopts this philosophy.

You're also talking about a guy with a surgically repaired elbow a few seasons ago.


I can show you dozens of busts in Cooperstown that agree with me.

It's a philosophical change that needs to be made. Unless he's hurt, I would play whomever gives me the advantage.

Sipp threw 28 pitches in 3 days, including one appearance where he threw 4. No reason not to throw him.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby OldDawg » Mon May 09, 2011 11:00 am

All this talk about Sipp...
No one seems to jump in with me about letting Raffy Perez finish his one inning with his 0.00 ERA. That's not even a medical decision, or a rest decision. It's letting your most proven reliever face four batters and finish an inning. Dunno.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon May 09, 2011 11:23 am

OldDawg wrote:All this talk about Sipp...
No one seems to jump in with me about letting Raffy Perez finish his one inning with his 0.00 ERA. That's not even a medical decision, or a rest decision. It's letting your most proven reliever face four batters and finish an inning. Dunno.


I would imagine that has to be a numbers decision. Bad splits maybe?

The way they have been playing, arguing over one win against a good team seems crazy, but I keep waiting for the bottom to fall out. The late inning fight is a very good thing to see.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Mon May 09, 2011 12:22 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
skatingtripods wrote: Find me a team in the league that adopts this philosophy.

You're also talking about a guy with a surgically repaired elbow a few seasons ago.


I can show you dozens of busts in Cooperstown that agree with me.

It's a philosophical change that needs to be made. Unless he's hurt, I would play whomever gives me the advantage.

Sipp threw 28 pitches in 3 days, including one appearance where he threw 4. No reason not to throw him.


That's right! Fuck these guys and their fragile arms! Get out there and throw, we've got a must-win game in early May to win!

I'm going to have to call bullshit here.

Burning out your bullpen in the first week of May doesn't make that much sense. If this were the playoffs, Sipp would have pitched, no question. This ain't the playoffs yet, and he's pitched a lot this year. The entire bullpen has shouldered a pretty good load with all those extra inning and close games. Acta's done a pretty nice job of trying to make sure he rotates through guys so as not to cook them.

As for Acta's position, it's tough. Sipp's elbow gets creaky after pitching a lot in one week early in May people would be all over him for over-using him. Lose one game because you didn't put him in, same thing. Can't win, but I have no issue with him not using Sipp.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon May 09, 2011 1:21 pm

WiscTribeFan wrote: Burning out your bullpen in the first week of May doesn't make that much sense.


This is my only point of contention. What number constitutes burning out? 70-80 pitches in a week is not a terrible work load. Back to back 30+ pitch games may be pushing it, but this is not the case.

Condition your pitchers to pitch. If there are elbow issues, that's something different.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Mon May 09, 2011 1:56 pm

British_Pharaoh wrote:I'm not disappointed with 3-3 but the manner in which we lost makes it difficult not to moan about how we should be 4-2 and 5.5 games ahead of KC.

One thing we can take away from this road trip is that we faced the 2 best pitching staffs and haven't lost a single game lead in the Central.

We just need to weather the storm of the Tampa Bay pitching at home and then it ends a tough opening to the month of May.


This loss didn't really hurt me. Angels got some lucky ass bounces. Not much anyone could do. We still split the road trip and are coming home to face Tampa Gay and Seattle.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby skatingtripods » Mon May 09, 2011 2:26 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:I can show you dozens of busts in Cooperstown that agree with me.

It's a philosophical change that needs to be made. Unless he's hurt, I would play whomever gives me the advantage.

Sipp threw 28 pitches in 3 days, including one appearance where he threw 4. No reason not to throw him.


That's a completely different era. Apples and oranges and such.

Fact is, very, very few, if any, teams are going to trot out their guys 4 of 5 days in May.

Have to protect your arms in today's MLB. Back then, guys probably pitched with torn UCLs and had no idea they were doing so.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Mon May 09, 2011 2:46 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
WiscTribeFan wrote: Burning out your bullpen in the first week of May doesn't make that much sense.


This is my only point of contention. What number constitutes burning out? 70-80 pitches in a week is not a terrible work load. Back to back 30+ pitch games may be pushing it, but this is not the case.

Condition your pitchers to pitch. If there are elbow issues, that's something different.


If you're going to go this route, maybe we should use our starters as relief pitchers on their off days, just like teams do in the playoffs. What could those extra innings hurt?

You can condition them all you want, but the rigors of a major league season will start to wear these guys out. Very few relief pitchers log 80 innings a year. If you do a search on last year's 'games' leaders for the AL, none of the top 20 plus guys, including Sipp, pitched more than 75 innings. Only one pitcher pitched in over 80 games. A lot were situational lefties, of course, but the fact remains that over the course of a season relief pitchers do wear down. Pitching in games doesn't take into account times they warm up but don't pitch as well.

It's a long season, a manager has to pace his staff. Does no-one any good to over-use them in May. It's one of those things you really need to differ to the guy's judgement in the dugout and refrain from second guessing this early. If it's playoff time, Sipp's in.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon May 09, 2011 6:07 pm

I think if you researched it you would find that most or all of the relievers who appeared in 80 games were toast the following year. I haven't researched it and I'm not going to, but I believe that is the case. Bobby Howry is an example with the Tribe a few years back.

The games we really need to win are against the AL Central. Maybe Sipp pitches four times in five days down the stretch against the Tigers or Twins if we're fighting for a playoff spot, but not against Oakland and LA in May.
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Re: Indians vs Angels: Pink bat day

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Mon May 09, 2011 7:33 pm

Prosecutor wrote:I think if you researched it you would find that most or all of the relievers who appeared in 80 games were toast the following year. I haven't researched it and I'm not going to, but I believe that is the case.


So this take is just made up? You have to win the games you have a chance to, when you have the chance to.
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