Text Size

Cleveland Indians & MLB

The Lineup

Talk Tribe, talk baseball in this forum.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau

The Lineup

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sun May 08, 2011 6:33 am

Far be it from me to criticise a winning formula but Grady has been a joke of a leadoff hitter for the majority of his playing time this season. He hasn't been patient and taking pitches during this entire road trip. He is hacking and looking awful in the process.

Brantley saw more pitches in his second at bat than Gr.ady did in 3 out of his 4 total at bats last night.

Brantley is a guy who is patient, knows the strike zone (that's why he is second on the team in walks. A guy who has minimal power.) and puts the ball in play with great swings. He has the second best OBP behind Hafner. In comparison, Sizemore has 4 walks to 18 strike outs.

I don't know why the lineup hasn't changed but surely the coaches and Manny can see what we've seen so there must be a reason for it.

Hafner needs to take back the cleanup spot. I mean come on do we really want our best hitter so far this season to be hitting with nobody on base all the time?? Even if he does look like a singles hitter right now.
We're forfeiting runs with the lineup we have at the moment. Because we're still winning it doesn't seem detrimental but I assure you it is.
Santana and Hafner need to switch places.

I think Manny is using the winning as an excuse not to change anything, but you can always be better. And changing the lineup makes us better.
"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

-Marcus Aurelius
User avatar
British_Pharaoh
Tony Sipp IS HERE!
 
Posts: 9154
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:31 pm
Location: Pardubice, Czech Republic
Favorite Player: Michael Brantley
Least Favorite Player: Alexei Ramirez

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Sun May 08, 2011 11:00 am

I agree and I disagree, but Im at work so I cant give full response, I'll try later
Alex White: Just like School on Sunday......No Class.
User avatar
Dnthateonthepronk
 
Posts: 1823
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Favorite Player: Dan Marino
Least Favorite Player: Alex Rodriguez

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Sun May 08, 2011 12:12 pm

Everybody was loving Grady in the leadoff spot when he was crushing the ball and of course only a week later and people want him moved down. I agree his approach has been less than stellar but it's just a slump, he'll figure it out. Santana and Choo are slowly figuring it out too, I'd keep them in the same positions even though I was in the move-Santana camp earlier when he K'ed looking at 3 straight fastballs to end the game. The only thing about the lineup I'd change would be to switch LaPorta and Orly Cabrera. Still want Orly to play everyday but just have him hitting 8th. LaPorta has shown to me that he's a real major league hitter and deserves to be moved up to 6th. I think this is what Acta was waiting for by hitting him 8th at the outset of the season and he should be rewarded.
Fuck the Browns...
User avatar
rebelwithoutaclue
 
Posts: 3639
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 11:43 am
Location: Under them Skies of Blue
Favorite Player: Kyrie Irving
Least Favorite Player: Mike Lombardi

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sun May 08, 2011 12:42 pm

Brantley has a higher OBP than Grady so far - .366 to .324, so if OBP is your biggest consideration and you assume those numbers will continue then Brantley's your guy. But the difference isn't that much, just one more time getting on base every 25 at-bats.

OTOH, Grady has a huge edge in OPS - .898 to .723, so by that measure Grady is a much better offensive player overall and should get more at-bats.

These numbers represent a small sample size since it's still early in the season and Grady got a late start, but I think we all agree that Grady should have a higher OPS than Brantley over the course of an entire year. He also has the speed you want at the top of the lineup. I woud keep things as they are for now.

I agree that Hafner should be moved back to cleanup now that he's shown his bat speed is back. The fact that he's hitting about 140 points higher than Santana is a factor, too. Batting average isn't everything, but that's a huge difference.

I agree with moving LaPorta up to 6th in place of Orly. LaPorta's OPS is 160 points higher (.815 to .655) and he is really coming on lately. If Hafner and his .412 OBP stays in the 5 hole, then I'd rather have LaPorta coming up next.
Prosecutor
Plutonian Outliers
 
Posts: 2867
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 11:59 am

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sun May 08, 2011 1:09 pm

rebelwithoutaclue wrote:Everybody was loving Grady in the leadoff spot when he was crushing the ball and of course only a week later and people want him moved down. I agree his approach has been less than stellar but it's just a slump, he'll figure it out. Santana and Choo are slowly figuring it out too, I'd keep them in the same positions even though I was in the move-Santana camp earlier when he K'ed looking at 3 straight fastballs to end the game. The only thing about the lineup I'd change would be to switch LaPorta and Orly Cabrera. Still want Orly to play everyday but just have him hitting 8th. LaPorta has shown to me that he's a real major league hitter and deserves to be moved up to 6th. I think this is what Acta was waiting for by hitting him 8th at the outset of the season and he should be rewarded.

I'm pretty sure when Grady was about to be activated off the DL we all wanted Brantley to stay as the leadoff hitter
"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

-Marcus Aurelius
User avatar
British_Pharaoh
Tony Sipp IS HERE!
 
Posts: 9154
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:31 pm
Location: Pardubice, Czech Republic
Favorite Player: Michael Brantley
Least Favorite Player: Alexei Ramirez

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sun May 08, 2011 1:18 pm

Prosecutor wrote:Brantley has a higher OBP than Grady so far - .366 to .324, so if OBP is your biggest consideration and you assume those numbers will continue then Brantley's your guy. But the difference isn't that much, just one more time getting on base every 25 at-bats.

OTOH, Grady has a huge edge in OPS - .898 to .723, so by that measure Grady is a much better offensive player overall and should get more at-bats.

These numbers represent a small sample size since it's still early in the season and Grady got a late start, but I think we all agree that Grady should have a higher OPS than Brantley over the course of an entire year. He also has the speed you want at the top of the lineup. I woud keep things as they are for now.

I agree that Hafner should be moved back to cleanup now that he's shown his bat speed is back. The fact that he's hitting about 140 points higher than Santana is a factor, too. Batting average isn't everything, but that's a huge difference.

I agree with moving LaPorta up to 6th in place of Orly. LaPorta's OPS is 160 points higher (.815 to .655) and he is really coming on lately. If Hafner and his .412 OBP stays in the 5 hole, then I'd rather have LaPorta coming up next.

Grady's OPS just supports my suggestion to move him down the order (maybe 3rd) We want the sluggers and power guys in the middle of the order. Solo shot and leadoff doubles do little damage. Brantley is a good table setter. I think the advent of leadoff hitters with power, guys like Rollins (although he doesn't leadoff anymore, precisely because he has power and because Victorino came along) Reyes et al has clouded your judgement. High OPS might be nice in your leadoff hitter but first and foremost you want a guy who works that count and makes a pitcher throw everything in his repetoire for all your other guys to get a look at. Someone patient with a sharp eye, just like Brantley. Brantley gets on base, has speed and makes a pitcher work. Brantley is a blessing and the guy who can finally free up Grady to hit lower in the order in a spot where he can drive in runs and do damage.
"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

-Marcus Aurelius
User avatar
British_Pharaoh
Tony Sipp IS HERE!
 
Posts: 9154
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:31 pm
Location: Pardubice, Czech Republic
Favorite Player: Michael Brantley
Least Favorite Player: Alexei Ramirez

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby skatingtripods » Sun May 08, 2011 1:45 pm

Everybody loved Grady crushing the ball in the leadoff spot, sure, but we also had a comfort zone with him there because we never had another leadoff hitter. Asdrubal Cabrera might as well have been the leadoff hitter on Friday night because he lead off the 4th, 6th, and the 11th.

Mike Brantley looks like a leadoff hitter. He has no issue hitting with two strikes, has worked a lot of counts this year and has that opposite field mentality. But, at this point, where do we want Grady? He's been a human rally killer. Do we want him in a position to hit 6th and drive in runs? I can't answer that because I don't know.

Either way, I don't see any lineup overhauls any time soon. But, once the bullpen starts to regress and scoring runs becomes much more important, then we could see Acta start to roll the dice a little when making the lineup.
A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe
User avatar
skatingtripods
Sloth Duncan
 
Posts: 14346
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Cleveland
Favorite Player: Mike Aviles
Least Favorite Player: Every Detroit Tiger

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby statmasta » Sun May 08, 2011 4:11 pm

I really don't care anymore. Grady's healthy, and he's a great talent so he'll get it going again.

We're 22-10 so it's not a concern at the moment, imo.
User avatar
statmasta
 
Posts: 1743
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:45 pm
Favorite Player: Sandy Alomar Jr.
Least Favorite Player: A.J. Pierzynski

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby 1Perry » Sun May 08, 2011 5:24 pm

I was concerned when Grady came back with inserting him back at the top. So far, so good though.

I think many have said that Grady isn't the best person to lead off. I'd hate to see a constantly changing line-up. I can't argue against some of the points but I'm certainly of the notion that if it's working don't be messing much.
User avatar
1Perry
The Shapiro of Posters
 
Posts: 1835
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:56 pm

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Sun May 08, 2011 6:32 pm

Today's game is a case in point. Grady 3 hits and the only run he drives in is his own on a solo shot. Because he continually comes up with no one on base with such a waste of space bottom of the order.
"There is but one thing of real value: to cultivate truth and justice and to live without anger in the midst of lying and unjust men"

-Marcus Aurelius
User avatar
British_Pharaoh
Tony Sipp IS HERE!
 
Posts: 9154
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:31 pm
Location: Pardubice, Czech Republic
Favorite Player: Michael Brantley
Least Favorite Player: Alexei Ramirez

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Mon May 09, 2011 1:41 pm

Why does LaPorta continually swing at terrible pitches? Shouldn't Nunnally be getting on his case about it? I could probably strike him out.

I like this lineup:

Brantley L
A. Cabrera S
Choo L
Hafner L
Santana S
O. Cabrera R
Sizemore L
Hannahan L
LaPorta R
Cleveland is the city where we come from so run run
User avatar
Rat_Tail
Take Me Back To 2007
 
Posts: 844
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:18 pm
Favorite Player: Pronk
Least Favorite Player: Marson

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon May 09, 2011 6:21 pm

According to BaseballProspectus, Grady has driven in 5 out of 40 base runners or 12.5%. The rankings:

Marson 33.3% (6 for 18). Tofu is clutch in a small sample.
Sloth 22.2
OCab 20.2
Hannahan 20.0
ACab 18.7 (the middle infielders have been clutch with RISP)
MaTola 17.4
Santana 16.1
Pronk 15.4
Choo 13.7 (13 for 95, ugh!)
Brantley 12.7
Grady 12.5
Buck 10.5
Kearns 6.9 (2 for 29, speaking of Human Rally Killers)
Everett 0 for 15

The leadoff hitter only leads off in the first inning, after that it's random. So if Grady's OPS is 175 pts higher than Brantley's, I want Grady getting more at-bats, which he will if he's hitting 1st rather than 7th.
Prosecutor
Plutonian Outliers
 
Posts: 2867
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 11:59 am

Re: The Lineup

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Mon May 09, 2011 6:47 pm

I would switch Hafner and Santanna. Though the two consecutive lefties could be problematic but as of right now Hafner is the far better hitter

Sizemore just seems more comfortable in leadoff, so I dont want to mess with him. It really seems that he just doesnt like hitting anywhere but leadoff and I dont want to mess with his psyche.
Alex White: Just like School on Sunday......No Class.
User avatar
Dnthateonthepronk
 
Posts: 1823
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Virginia Beach
Favorite Player: Dan Marino
Least Favorite Player: Alex Rodriguez


Return to Cleveland Indians & MLB

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], gbot and 2 guests

Who is online

In total there are 4 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], gbot and 2 guests