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Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:21 pm

skatingtripods wrote:I'm glad we have Masterson going tomorrow.


Lucifer just put on a sweater.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby RickNashEquilibrium » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:24 pm

bookelly wrote:
RickNashEquilibrium wrote:Win or lose, the best part of this series will be tomorrow's B-List take on Santana's last AB.


We may even have a fungus sighting.


I don't know about fungus, but when one of your best young players puts up an AB worse than ANYTHING Chris Giminez ever did, its time to ride the pine.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby RickNashEquilibrium » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:29 pm

Between Santana looking as comfortable as Andy Dufresne getting a rectal exam and Bruce Chen being mistaken for Tom Glavine's left handed Chinese half-brother, I'd say Buff has a lot of good material to work with tomorrow.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby skatingtripods » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:45 pm

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Lucifer just put on a sweater.


Yeah, never thought I'd say that.

Santana's AB is still pissing me off and it happened an hour ago.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby Dnthateonthepronk » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:50 pm

skatingtripods wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Lucifer just put on a sweater.


Yeah, never thought I'd say that.

Santana's AB is still pissing me off and it happened an hour ago.


He never even took the bat off of his shoulder :pb: Its F@%%ing ridiculous
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby pup » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:31 am

Buster Posey my ass
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby Jumbo » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:19 am

pup wrote:Buster Posey my ass


Death, taxes, and this post.

:thumb up:

Yeah, that sucked.

I retract any and all Buster Posey comparisons. :bag:

But I reserve the right to change my mind in a few months once Santana gets it going. :hic:
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:43 am

Those last two pitches were awesome. He wouldn't have hit them even if he swung.

This game was lost earlier when they botched the pick-off and the pitchout. Those plays cost them two runs.

That being said, Santana is in a 3-for-33 slump. He's not hitting any line drives, either. He's taking a big swing and popping a lot of balls up. I know he's a natural pull hitter but he needs to shorten up his swing and use the whole field.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby Jumbo » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:55 am

Prosecutor wrote:This game was lost earlier when they botched the pick-off and the pitchout. Those plays cost them two runs.


[excuses]
Quite frankly, it was unlikely that they were going to be in that game at all after going down 5-0. And they arguably shouldn't have been in that bases loaded situation either if Betemit doesn't make that comically bad error.
[/excuses]
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby rebelwithoutaclue » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:55 am

skatingtripods wrote:
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Lucifer just put on a sweater.


Yeah, never thought I'd say that.

Santana's AB is still pissing me off and it happened an hour ago.


It's the next morning and it's still pissing me off.
Fuck the Browns...
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:10 am

[quote="Prosecutor"]Those last two pitches were awesome. He wouldn't have hit them even if he swung. quote]

That's quite the statement. Wanna give me some #s for the Mega Millions?

They were both nice pitches. Fastballs on the outside edge. But a good hitter battles to spoil them into foul territory. A great hitter laces a liner to left. I think most here believe Santana will be a good or great hitter.

Step 1 is to take a cut.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby Dellucci TailGator » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:32 am

bookelly wrote: Jeremy Sowers could mow us down.

Woah.
Woah.

Woah.

Let's not say things we can't take back.

Jeremy Sowers now pitches in the Rocky River 10 and Under league as a left-handed reliever while rehabbing his arm following surgery. The slightly Milk Dud-stained scorebook the coach faxed me over says his ERA is 6.43.

The jerseys are just his size, though. So he has that going for him.

Apropos of nothing, I found out that the doctor's name that did Sowers' surgery is Dr. Mark Schickendantz.

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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby gotribe31 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:42 am

skatingtripods wrote:Grow a pair and run him over.


Catchers don't typically run over catchers. It's an unwritten rule.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby gotribe31 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:47 am

Dellucci TailGator wrote:Brantley leads off. Sizemore hits third. Hafner in clean-up. Choo fifth and Santana sixth.

This isn't rocket science, Acta. Do it. Do it now. No time to be diddling with the bullshit AB's Choo and Santana are putting up right now.

They'll hit eventually and I understand not wanting left-handers back-to-back, but for now there are some baseball games to win.

Odds are when that line-up turns around late in the game for the fourth/fifth time, it's going to be the heart of the order up in the key situations. Choo and Santana should not be in those situations right now.


So you want us go go L/S/L/L/L/S 1-6? Really?

Care to revise your statement, sir?
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:56 am

gotribe31 wrote:Catchers don't typically run over catchers. It's an unwritten rule.


I know. Doesn't mean I can't use it to get pissed off about Lou Marson. ;-) ;) :wink:
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:50 pm

JacksonDysonJackson wrote:
Prosecutor wrote:Those last two pitches were awesome. He wouldn't have hit them even if he swung. quote]

That's quite the statement. Wanna give me some #s for the Mega Millions?

They were both nice pitches. Fastballs on the outside edge. But a good hitter battles to spoil them into foul territory. A great hitter laces a liner to left. I think most here believe Santana will be a good or great hitter.

Step 1 is to take a cut.


You could be right, he might have fouled the third one off and stayed alive. Yes, he should have been protecting the plate with two strikes and swinging at anything close. He said after the game that all three pitches were backdoor fastballs, so after seeing the movement on the first two he should have been ready for the third. I agree with you that he should have swung at the third pitch.

But he is not close to being a great or even a good hitter right now. He looked great his first three weeks in a Tribe uniform last June but since then he's hitting right around .200. Not too many major league hitters could have hit line drives off those last two Soria pitches, and Santana (at the moment) is not one of them.

The Tribe also pissed away a scoring opportunity when they sent Everitt home on that Brantley single to left. Brantley has no opposite field power so Gordon was playing him shallow to begin with, then he charged the ball. He had the ball in his glove before Everitt got around third. I was screaming to hold him at third but they sent him anyway and he was thrown out by ten feet. Too many dumb mistakes that are not characteristic of this team so far did them in, along with their inability to get to Chen.

With Masterson pitching the Royals will be running again tonight. Let's hope they don't steal five more bases because they're pretty good at slapping the ball through the infield once they get a runner on second. At least we'll have Grady and Pronk back in the lineup with a right-hander on the mound.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby JacksonDysonJackson » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:29 pm

Not too many major league hitters could have hit line drives off those last two Soria pitches, and Santana (at the moment) is not one of them.


Never said he was a good /great hitter at present. He projects to be. But that is beside the point.

I not going to argue against your "not too many major league hitters could have hit line drives off those last two Soria pitches" statement, even though I dont agree with it.

The point is that he didnt battle. Fuck...he didnt swing. I dont care if he makes an out there...I want to see a guy fouling pitches off, working the count, and putting a good AB together. You know...kinda what you should expect in a one run game with the bases loaded, two outs in the 9th.

The Tribe also pissed away a scoring opportunity when they sent Everitt home on that Brantley single to left. Brantley has no opposite field power so Gordon was playing him shallow to begin with, then he charged the ball. He had the ball in his glove before Everitt got around third. I was screaming to hold him at third but they sent him anyway and he was thrown out by ten feet. Too many dumb mistakes that are not characteristic of this team so far did them in, along with their inability to get to Chen.


I wasnt too broken up about sending him there. We couldnt hit Chen at all so it was a desperate move to be sure. Worth the risk? Thats debateable.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby skatingtripods » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:35 pm

Marson was thrown out at home, not Everett. No issue with sending him. Not with the way Asdrubal's hit over the last 4 games (incl. last night) (3-for-17).

Trevor Crowe made a good point on Twitter yesterday, (yes, Pipe, I follow Trevor Crowe) that he was shocked that Gordon was playing so shallow with Grady up as the tying run. He basically called it a stupid baseball play that got lucky.

Santana dropping that pickoff throw is the biggest play of that game. He's got a young kid on the mound making his first ML start of the year and he had a guy picked off. Like Rick Manning commented during the game, Gomez had much better control from the windup than he did the stretch. He goes back to the windup and who knows what Getz does.

Can't give a team extra outs.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby Rat_Tail » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:09 pm

We still battled back. Just wish Santana would've swung. His teammates even looked shocked.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby davemanddd » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:23 pm

i still wanna know why santana was at first base instead of laporta in the first place and not just on the bench???

i mean how is that giving him a day off from behind the plate??? he should have been on the bench to truly been given a day off from behind the plate, or at worst been inserted as the dh. playing him at first base was in no way, shape, or form a day off. he's been struggling mightily this year and the opportunity to rest him then was certainly there and yet acta kept him in the lineup and took laporta out instead???

not only did it weaken their offense (laporta .260, santana .193 prior to the game, and don't even get me started on austin kearns and his whopping .154 average), they also weakened their defense and it really came to a head in the third inning when santana was unable to pick cabrera's throw from out of the dirt and the deaf, dumb and blind official scorer ruled the obvious error a hit for escobar. i have no doubt that laporta woulda picked it and escobar woulda been out.

not to be outdone, gomez then had escobar picked off, except the catcher, err, first baseman dropped the ball and again escobar was safe but still no error was called. i think maybe the kansas city official scorer has a man-crush on santana??? i dunno???

of course when you tempt fate not once but twice, it's eventually going to bite you in the butt and sure enough that's exactly what happened as chris getz promptly stepped up and mashed a triple to score escobar. had santana made either of those plays like he should have and laporta would have, they could have gone into extra innings, all things staying the same.

i know, shoulda, coulda, woulda still doesn't take away the fact that the tribe lost the game. i guess i should be happy that they are still in first place. i just hope they can continue playing as well as they have so far this year for the rest of the season. we can only hope. go tribe!!!

:itcf:
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:24 pm

DAVE'S BACK!@@$@$!!@$!

:hic:
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:31 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:DAVE'S BACK!@@$@$!!@$!

:hic:


Yep. Telling me LaPorta's .260 makes him a better hitter than Santana at whatever he's at two weeks in.

I can only fight on so many fronts.

And now I don't know if JB is serious with his Heat sweeping Celtics post or if he's rattling cages.

So I'll mark all as 'read', step away for 45 minutes and then hit Twitter for Tribe game and NBA playoff action.

Hate to do it but sometimes it's for the best.

I love the fact I get to pick whose shit I read and that I can make even them disappear with a click.

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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:35 pm

IMO, JB is hedging his bets between being a fatalist and reverse jinxing.

Dave's obviously been in the Mountain Dew Again.

Either way, as always, I'll catch you on the Twitter side when the games start.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby davemanddd » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:29 pm

peeker643 wrote:
e0y2e3 wrote:DAVE'S BACK!@@$@$!!@$!

:hic:


Yep. Telling me LaPorta's .260 makes him a better hitter than Santana at whatever he's at two weeks in.

I can only fight on so many fronts.

And now I don't know if JB is serious with his Heat sweeping Celtics post or if he's rattling cages.

So I'll mark all as 'read', step away for 45 minutes and then hit Twitter for Tribe game and NBA playoff action.

Hate to do it but sometimes it's for the best.


I love the fact I get to pick whose shit I read and that I can make even them disappear with a click.

/*Jennifer sigh*


um, i don't know where you went to school, but in my high school, i was taught that .260 was certainly higher than .193. meanwhile, laporta is a heap much better first baseman than santana will ever hope to be. my point was that it hurt the tribe on both fronts, offensively and defensively as they not only took out laporta, but they put austin kearns in there too.

the lineup was just putrid as far as i'm concerned and you saw the result of them being held to 2 hits through 6 innings by one bruce freaking chen, not to be confused with some guy named cy young.

anyway, santana is struggling and needs a true day off just so he can get his wits about him and not just moved from catcher to first base for a day. if you are not 100% comfortable at a particular position, believe me when i tell you, the ball is going to find you and show how absurd it is for you to even be there. see garko, ryan - lf, circa 2009.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:49 pm

davemanddd wrote:um, i don't know where you went to school, but in my high school, i was taught that .260 was certainly higher than .193.


So at your school LaPorta is also a better hitter than Albert Pujols since .260 is higher than .239 and playing Pujols over LaPorta would weaken you offensively.

Gotcha. Maybe we're watching different sports.

Where I went to school Santana is a better hitter than LaPorta, Dave. Feel free to continue arguing otherwise. :thumb up:
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby davemanddd » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:02 pm

peeker643 wrote:
davemanddd wrote:um, i don't know where you went to school, but in my high school, i was taught that .260 was certainly higher than .193.


So at your school LaPorta is also a better hitter than Albert Pujols since .260 is higher than .239 and playing Pujols over LaPorta would weaken you offensively.

Gotcha. Maybe we're watching different sports.

Where I went to school Santana is a better hitter than LaPorta, Dave. Feel free to continue arguing otherwise. :thumb up:


are you seriously comparing carlos santana with albert pujols??? all i'm saying is at the present time, laporta is hitting better than santana and is a much better defensive first baseman. you can't argue the fact that santana's defense directly led to the royals scoring two of their runs. i'm just saying at the present time, the better thing to have done would have been to sit santana down and actually give him a true day off from behind the plate and allow him to get his wits about him as he is obviously struggling, whereas laporta has been hitting much better of late and is much better at picking ground balls out of the dirt than what santana is.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:09 pm

davemanddd wrote:are you seriously comparing carlos santana with albert pujols???


Yes. That's exactly what I'm doing Dave. You're all over this thread in your return.

Santana had two straight days off less than a week ago.

Hit or get off the pot and more days watching ain't gonna help. Unless you can tell us all the day that he will get off the schneid and then we can just sit him til then. But it's not an on/off deal. You work your way into slumps and you work your way out every single day, at-bat by at-bat.

You're focus is hindsight and it's looking at a single game. Acta is making the call in real-time and is concerned about the next 140.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby davemanddd » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:52 pm

peeker643 wrote:
davemanddd wrote:are you seriously comparing carlos santana with albert pujols???


Yes. That's exactly what I'm doing Dave. You're all over this thread in your return.

Santana had two straight days off less than a week ago.

Hit or get off the pot and more days watching ain't gonna help. Unless you can tell us all the day that he will get off the schneid and then we can just sit him til then. But it's not an on/off deal. You work your way into slumps and you work your way out every single day, at-bat by at-bat.

You're focus is hindsight and it's looking at a single game. Acta is making the call in real-time and is concerned about the next 140.


fair enough. but i'm certainly not the first to play monday morning quarterback.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby WarAdmiral » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:09 pm

Carlos is no flash in the pan. That swing is golden, and he will hit the hell out of the ball when it is all said and done. He has been in a bad place. Every player ends up there one time or another. I agree with Peek, and they just got to let him find his way out of it. He is stuck in a guessing slump, where he is guessing way to much, and missing on his guesses way to much. Eventually he will get used to being pitched backwards to, and start mashing and guessing way less. With confidence, comes less guessing, they start trusting their natural instincts, and reactions. He is an all star caliber catcher, right now. IMO.

His defensive blocking is top shelf, and he has to be one of the quickest, I have ever seen to recovering blocked/deflected balls. He is like a Cat, with a ball of yarn back there.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby Prosecutor » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:22 pm

I doubt you can find a manager in all of baseball history that didn't try to help a player break out of a deep slump by giving him a day off. That seems to be Plan A when a player is 3-for-33 like Santana was going into that game.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but it's about all a manager can do other than dropping the player down in the order.

The question is how long to wait before giving a slumping hitter a day off. Considering the Royals were starting a lefty and LaPorta has been swinging the bat well lately (.412 in the last seven days), it seemed like a strange time to sit LaPorta down and put a struggling Santana at first base. When the lineup was announced I was very surprised to see Santana starting, so I can see where Dave is coming from.

Like all managers Manny looks at how his hitters have done in the past against opposing pitchers. Chen faced the Indians five times last year. I haven't looked it up, but maybe Carlos hit him pretty well, or LaPorta couldn't buy a foul ball off him. Like Peeks said, Manny thought it through and decided to go with Santana for a reason, even if it's not immediately obvious. So far this year most of Manny's moves have worked out brilliantly, this one being a rare exception. I'd give him a pass on this one.
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Re: Indians vs. Royals 04/19/11

Unread postby davemanddd » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:47 pm

Prosecutor wrote:I doubt you can find a manager in all of baseball history that didn't try to help a player break out of a deep slump by giving him a day off. That seems to be Plan A when a player is 3-for-33 like Santana was going into that game.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but it's about all a manager can do other than dropping the player down in the order.

The question is how long to wait before giving a slumping hitter a day off. Considering the Royals were starting a lefty and LaPorta has been swinging the bat well lately (.412 in the last seven days), it seemed like a strange time to sit LaPorta down and put a struggling Santana at first base. When the lineup was announced I was very surprised to see Santana starting, so I can see where Dave is coming from.

Like all managers Manny looks at how his hitters have done in the past against opposing pitchers. Chen faced the Indians five times last year. I haven't looked it up, but maybe Carlos hit him pretty well, or LaPorta couldn't buy a foul ball off him. Like Peeks said, Manny thought it through and decided to go with Santana for a reason, even if it's not immediately obvious. So far this year most of Manny's moves have worked out brilliantly, this one being a rare exception. I'd give him a pass on this one.


thanx!!! it's not often that someone understands my opinion. hee-hee!!!

no but seriously though, i agree that manny has been pushing all the right buttons for the most part this season, but if he wanted to keep santana's bat in there, well then he shoulda put him at dh and still kept laporta at first base.

that particular move cost them both offensively and defensively and ultimately, the game. yes, i have the advantage of looking back on it in hindsight, but that was my point in a nutshell.

looking forward to the tribe maybe taking 3 of the 4 games now. we can only hope. go tribe!!! :itcf:
dave . . .
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