Clash of the Titans: Indians/Royals

[swerb]

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/mlb/ga ... y&c_id=cle

Who saw this coming?

Tribe has won the season series with the Royals seven straight years. Royals coming off a 3-2 loss to the Mariners yesterday, but took the first three of the series. Alex Gordon looks like he's finally starting to live up to the hype he got as one of baseball's top prospects a couple years ago. He and Billy Butler have given the Royals two solid young bats in the middle of that lineup and they've gotten hot starts from guys like Wilson Betemit and Jeff Francouer. KC leads the AL in batting average, runs, and OBP and are second in stolen bases with 19.

Like the Indians, the Royals are also hitting well with RISP, have gotten better than expected starting pitching, and their bullpen has been outstanding. They have five guys in their bullpen I've never heard of with ERA's < 2.25, and Soria is not one of em.

Let's keep it rolling Tribe. This is really fun ...

Tonight, 8:10 PM - Carlos Carrasco (1-1, 5.03) vs Kyle Davies (1-1, 9.00)
Tomorrow, 8:10 PM - Jeanmar Gomez (0-0, 0.00) vs Bruce Chen (2-0, 2.37)
Wedns, 8:10 PM - Justin Masterson (3-0, 1.33) vs Luke Hochevar (2-1, 4.21)
Thurs, 8:10 PM - Josh Tomlin (3-0, 2.75) vs Sean O'Sullivan (1-1, 5.00)

[peeker643]

13 straight division games including 7 of the next 10 against the Royals. That'll end April and start May.

Pretty good idea where this team really stands after that as they'll have seen everyone in the Central.

7 straight on the road. I know we looked at last week as a big trip but this one is just as important.

Been pimping this team for 2 weeks now simply because it's an easy team to like. They're having fun and they're playing good fundamental baseball, pulling for each other and getting lifted each night by someone else in the lineup.

Talbot aside, they're also getting healthier with Sizemore back (first time he and Santana have ever been in the same lineup was yesterday) and Hafner getting further and further away from his shoulder issues.

The bullpen is having one of those years and their starters have a 1.86 starting with Game 3 of the season.

How can you not be enjoying this even if it's not meant to last? Those who aren't enjoying this start to the Tribe season are the guys who bitch about having to go back to work on their first day of their two-week Hawaiian vacation.

Fuck that.

[Erie Warrior]

Hafner getting further and further away from his shoulder issues.

It cannot be overstated how important this is to the lineup. Changes the entire way 1-5 are pitched.

[swerb]

Hafner getting further and further away from his shoulder issues.

It cannot be overstated how important this is to the lineup. Changes the entire way 1-5 are pitched.

Hafner is ripping the effing cover off the ball.

And looks ripped. Looks noticably bigger and stronger than the last couple years.

Also hitting .313 against lefties (5-16) so far.

[Bayou Tribe]

I've been rolling with the free month of mlbtv so far and I've watched almost every inning thus far. I'll get to catch 12 of the aforementioned 13 games before this free trial ends, so in my superstitious ways I'll be interested to see what the splits are before and after the Tribe cause me shell out my own coin for the season long subscription.


Also, probably a question for Tony, but can we expect to see Chisenhall come in and contribute early (before the all star break) in Cleveland? Can he be a difference maker for us this year, or am I putting the cart ahead of the horse?

[skatingtripods]

Not much I can add to what has already been said. I've been a good soldier through the last three years and it gives me a real sense of pride that I'm not crawling back to the bandwagon like so many are right now. There's still 90% of the season to go, and I figure the Tribe's gotta play around .537 or better (.537 would be 90 W) to really have a great shot at the division.

There's no way the pitching keeps this ridiculous pace, but there's no way Santana and Choo continue hitting a combined .220-.230. Grady looked good yesterday, we'll see how does going forward, but having Burns platoon off the field for at least 4 or 5 of 7 days can only help this team.

Big trip. I want 4-3. I'll take 3-4. Nice homestand after that with KC and DET to close out the month.

I'm enjoying the hell out of this, though.

[peeker643]

JMO Bayou, but if they get .250 and the defense they're getting from Hannahan and they continue to win, they're not changing horses at 3B.

That doesn't mean Chisenhall won't be here if they struggle or Hannahan is abysmal, but that guy can pick it at 3B and their infield defense has been outstanding. You have a stable of GB type pitchers and I think they'll live with Hannahan's weak bat and excellent defense.

I've been rolling with the free month of mlbtv so far and I've watched almost every inning thus far. I'll get to catch 12 of the aforementioned 13 games before this free trial ends, so in my superstitious ways I'll be interested to see what the splits are before and after the Tribe cause me shell out my own coin for the season long subscription.


Also, probably a question for Tony, but can we expect to see Chisenhall come in and contribute early (before the all star break) in Cleveland? Can he be a difference maker for us this year, or am I putting the cart ahead of the horse?

[pup]

Love the way these guys are playing. A good measuring stick for team chemistry is how the lineup rolls over, and this team obviously feeds off each other. When those cats at the top are itching to get up there and swing it because they bottom of the order has set them up, you have a great bunch.

I did what I could to not get caught up in the early season success. Wanted to wait and see for a solid month. Then, for the first time in I have no clue how long, I found myself severely disappointed realizing last Thursday was an off day. WTF was I going to do without having a Tribe game?

[Kingpin74]

Hafner is ripping the effing cover off the ball.

And looks ripped. Looks noticably bigger and stronger than the last couple years.

Also hitting .313 against lefties (5-16) so far.

The big question is, if a team steps up in July with an offer to pay the rest of Hafner's contract and throws us a prospect or two, will Antonetti bite? Obviously if we keep looking great and are on a 90 something win pace, you don't mess with it. But if it's something like '02 where we're a little over .500 and a few games back in a crappy division, I think he'll take it.

Personally, I think you hang on to him regardless if his production is decent. It's only a 2 year commitment now and we're finally getting something after eating three bad years (which are now a sunk cost anyway). Interesting issue to watch as the season develops, though.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

Based on my research, this is the first time since April 3, 2003, these teams have gone into a game against each other with winning records.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

This team is different. I can't remember but I'd bet they've already swept more series' this year then they did all last year. Really excited for the rest of the season.

[swerb]

Hafner is ripping the effing cover off the ball.

And looks ripped. Looks noticably bigger and stronger than the last couple years.

Also hitting .313 against lefties (5-16) so far.

The big question is, if a team steps up in July with an offer to pay the rest of Hafner's contract and throws us a prospect or two, will Antonetti bite? Obviously if we keep looking great and are on a 90 something win pace, you don't mess with it. But if it's something like '02 where we're a little over .500 and a few games back in a crappy division, I think he'll take it.

Personally, I think you hang on to him regardless if his production is decent. It's only a 2 year commitment now and we're finally getting something after eating three bad years (which are now a sunk cost anyway). Interesting issue to watch as the season develops, though.

This team cannot take the PR hit of trading a key cog this summer without getting equivalent MLB ready talent back. On the contrary, if they're in it in late July, and they don't make a move to get the team help ... fans will be pissed.

And the Dolans are firmly on record as saying they will spend when they can contend as part of their defense against the angry fans complianing about payroll.

Almost 6,000 walk up fans Friday night. For a game in 50 degree weather on a Fri night against the Orioles. If each fan spent $35 on their ticket and other crap, that's over $200,000 in revenue.

Have to believe the team will not do anything that will not improve their chances to win games.

[tired]

Got my broom out and ready to sweep.

[skatingtripods]

Almost 6,000 walk up fans Friday night. For a game in 50 degree weather on a Fri night against the Orioles. If each fan spent $35 on their ticket and other crap, that's over $200,000 in revenue.

Lots of kids around my age or slightly younger who seemed to have a $40-50 budget because they were buying $10 bleacher seats and 4-6 beers. Your $35 number seems spot on as an average.

I wish STO would do a lot more than they do to promote us, because most people only read newspaper coverage or watch the TV coverage and there's so much cynicism and skepticism in the print guys and the TV news media that they will constantly try to tell people that the bottom is going to fall out. If they'd read us, they'd get excited and hopefully follow more closely or attend more games.

[Damage]

Our lineup is really potent and the pen is having an on year. I typically underrate how important defense is, but man does it really pay off to have a phenomenal infield and Choo as our RF.

As for Chisenhall, I think it all depends on everyone else not playing 3B for the Tribe. If we continue to mash, we can live without Hannahan's bat and just rely on his glove. If the offense fizzles, the Indians brass won't fuck with the Super 2 status.

[Am I Here Again?]

This team is different. I can't remember but I'd bet they've already swept more series' this year then they did all last year. Really excited for the rest of the season.

Baseball Reference has an Indians' page with all the stats from last year. They have a win/loss column with all the game results. I could be wrong but I counted five sweeps. Two were four-game series. Two were back-to-back in September. Unless my finger or eyes wavered those numbers should be OK.

FWIW our Tribe spent ZERO days in first place last year and never lead a game. Wow...

[skatingtripods]

FWIW our Tribe spent ZERO days in first place last year and never lead a game. Wow...

They hadn't been in first place since mid-May of 2008.

[danwismar]

I wish STO would do a lot more than they do to promote us, because most people only read newspaper coverage or watch the TV coverage and there's so much cynicism and skepticism in the print guys and the TV news media that they will constantly try to tell people that the bottom is going to fall out. If they'd read us, they'd get excited and hopefully follow more closely or attend more games.

I agree it would be great if they did more, but it is cool how they're running ads on Tribe telecasts at the bottom of the screen to specific TCF articles at the stohd.com website. It's something, and it's bound to drive some additional traffic our way.

Any numbers yet on traffic coming from those stohd.com hits, Swerb?

[skatingtripods]

I agree it would be great if they did more, but it is cool how they're running ads on Tribe telecasts at the bottom of the screen to specific TCF articles at the stohd.com website. It's something, and it's bound to drive some additional traffic our way.

It is nice, but I'm talking a step further. I'm talking about a Sunday morning panel using the Indians writers to discuss Tribe baseball. Some sort of panel show for football season, both OSU and the Browns.

Their original programming, if we can call it that, is brutal. I never watch STO except for Tribe games. It shouldn't be that way. Not as a Cleveland sports fan. Drennan should be getting some of our guys on his show, whether by phone or in person.

This can be a symbiotic relationship that benefits them as much as it benefits us. They have a wealth of talent, passion, and knowledge at their disposal and they don't use it to its full potential.

I'm sure the ratings for Pro Wrestling Ohio and the 75,000 re-runs of the OHSAA playoff games are off the charts.

[Bayou Tribe]

This team cannot take the PR hit of trading a key cog this summer without getting equivalent MLB ready talent back. On the contrary, if they're in it in late July, and they don't make a move to get the team help ... fans will be pissed.

Agreed 100%, this will be put up or shut up time.

That same sentiment is what got me thinking about Chisenhall in the first place. A cheaper route to signing a FA to make a run. If Good-Hannahands is holding it down on defense, though, that money may be well spent at first or in the starting rotation.

[Rat_Tail]

I wish STO would do a lot more than they do to promote us, because most people only read newspaper coverage or watch the TV coverage and there's so much cynicism and skepticism in the print guys and the TV news media that they will constantly try to tell people that the bottom is going to fall out. If they'd read us, they'd get excited and hopefully follow more closely or attend more games.

I dunno, there's a lot of cynics here too.

We've been getting more and more national attention with every win. If we keep it up people will hop on the bandwagon.

A split in KC still keeps us in 1st.

My friend and I got on TV at Friday's game. My friend was flicking off the camera when they intentionally walked Hafner. Surprised that gone on.

[swerb]

I wish STO would do a lot more than they do to promote us, because most people only read newspaper coverage or watch the TV coverage and there's so much cynicism and skepticism in the print guys and the TV news media that they will constantly try to tell people that the bottom is going to fall out. If they'd read us, they'd get excited and hopefully follow more closely or attend more games.

I agree it would be great if they did more, but it is cool how they're running ads on Tribe telecasts at the bottom of the screen to specific TCF articles at the stohd.com website. It's something, and it's bound to drive some additional traffic our way.

Any numbers yet on traffic coming from those stohd.com hits, Swerb?

Traffic is up. Highest traffic levels (not counting the madness that surrounded your Bobby Lowder piece) since a week or so after LeDouchebag and The Decision.

A lot more people are watching STO, and they have done a good job promoting the web thus far this season.

[redneckofsc]

As long as Darrell May isnt pitching, we will sweep.

[Bayou Tribe]

I wish STO would do a lot more than they do to promote us, because most people only read newspaper coverage or watch the TV coverage and there's so much cynicism and skepticism in the print guys and the TV news media that they will constantly try to tell people that the bottom is going to fall out. If they'd read us, they'd get excited and hopefully follow more closely or attend more games.

I dunno, there's a lot of cynics here too.

We've been getting more and more national attention with every win. If we keep it up people will hop on the bandwagon.

A split in KC still keeps us in 1st.

My friend and I got on TV at Friday's game. My friend was flicking off the camera when they intentionally walked Hafner. Surprised that gone on.

I definitely caught that live. In a moment of immaturity, I lol'd

[skatingtripods]

I dunno, there's a lot of cynics here too.

Mostly talking about the writers. A small percentage, something like 25-30%, who view the main page content actually view the forums.

[cozmeesah]

I wish STO would do a lot more than they do to promote us, because most people only read newspaper coverage or watch the TV coverage and there's so much cynicism and skepticism in the print guys and the TV news media that they will constantly try to tell people that the bottom is going to fall out. If they'd read us, they'd get excited and hopefully follow more closely or attend more games.

I dunno, there's a lot of cynics here too.

We've been getting more and more national attention with every win. If we keep it up people will hop on the bandwagon.

A split in KC still keeps us in 1st.

My friend and I got on TV at Friday's game. My friend was flicking off the camera when they intentionally walked Hafner. Surprised that gone on.

That was YOU?! We saw you guys from further back in the bleachers and were laughing. Nice.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

The Tribe is flat out playing good ball. And I couldn't be any happier.

Plus we all know Choo ain't gonna hit in the .220s all year. His bat will come around.

[peeker643]

The Tribe is flat out playing good ball. And I couldn't be any happier.

Plus we all know Choo ain't gonna hit in the .220s all year. His bat will come around.

You know nothing about South Korean born players and their hitting slumps.

Choo hates your avatar.

Hates it.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

You don't think Choo is going to hit?

OT:

Go to NetFlix, search for The Vice Guide To Travel and watch the episode on North Korea. It's hilarious and scary.

The one on Liberia is also very disturbing.

[peeker643]

Of course I do. He'll be fine. I was just adding to the list of things know nothing about as I may publish it as a book.

You don't think Choo is going to hit?

OT:

Go to NetFlix, search for The Vice Guide To Travel and watch the episode on North Korea. It's hilarious and scary.

The one on Liberia is also very disturbing.

[Jumbo]

OT:

Go to NetFlix, search for The Vice Guide To Travel and watch the episode on North Korea. It's hilarious and scary.

+1. That episode is amazing.

[The Brook]

OT:

Go to NetFlix, search for The Vice Guide To Travel and watch the episode on North Korea. It's hilarious and scary.

That was one of the craziest things I've ever watched.

[leadpipe]

I dunno, there's a lot of cynics here too.

Mostly talking about the writers. A small percentage, something like 25-30%, who view the main page content actually view the forums.

Well, if you count the really condescending article posted last week - you now, the one that basically called people morons for merely getting excited about the Tribe's early season success....if you count that one it could be said there's cynics amongst that group as well.

Go to any city, take the field over the home team, and you'll be correct nearly every damn time. That's why people do it, and that's why local newspaper guys that are mailing in work in a dying industry do it.

[skatingtripods]

Well, if you count the really condescending article posted last week - you now, the one that basically called people morons for merely getting excited about the Tribe's early season success....if you count that one it could be said there's cynics amongst that group as well.

Was that Benz? I'll assume so. It's always raining on that guy.

[skatingtripods]

Clayman's article was a great comparison of the two teams, and I understand at the end with the homegrown players section, but it irritates me that it's not really accepted that minor leaguers who come through the Indians system aren't considered "homegrown". Maybe we didn't draft them, but they developed here. We took minor leaguers and helped round them in to major leaguers.

In most cases, they've done just as much, if not more growing in our system than the system we got them from.

I realize the point, but just because we didn't draft them doesn't mean we didn't develop them.

[leadpipe]

Well, if you count the really condescending article posted last week - you now, the one that basically called people morons for merely getting excited about the Tribe's early season success....if you count that one it could be said there's cynics amongst that group as well.

Was that Benz? I'll assume so. It's always raining on that guy.

It's always raining and you're stupid.

Or I'm stupid.

Or we're stupid.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

Let's hope there's a few more people in the stands when the Indians return to town than there are tonight in KC.

That of course is contingent upon the Indians continuing to win til then.

[motherscratcher]

Clayman's article was a great comparison of the two teams, and I understand at the end with the homegrown players section, but it irritates me that it's not really accepted that minor leaguers who come through the Indians system aren't considered "homegrown". Maybe we didn't draft them, but they developed here. We took minor leaguers and helped round them in to major leaguers.

In most cases, they've done just as much, if not more growing in our system than the system we got them from.

I realize the point, but just because we didn't draft them doesn't mean we didn't develop them.

I totally agree. I think that the main reason is that the thundering hoard of Shapiro haters would rather pull out their toenails with pliers than give Shap a have inch of credit if they can avoid it.

[peeker643]

Clayman's article was a great comparison of the two teams, and I understand at the end with the homegrown players section, but it irritates me that it's not really accepted that minor leaguers who come through the Indians system aren't considered "homegrown". Maybe we didn't draft them, but they developed here. We took minor leaguers and helped round them in to major leaguers.

In most cases, they've done just as much, if not more growing in our system than the system we got them from.

I realize the point, but just because we didn't draft them doesn't mean we didn't develop them.

I totally agree. I think that the main reason is that the thundering hoard of Shapiro haters would rather pull out their toenails with pliers than give Shap a have inch of credit if they can avoid it.

Meh...it's just acquisition method. Nothing being inferred in regard to developing young players. The opposite really if you know who the Indians received in the CC, Vic, CPLee deals.

They are excellent at identifying other young pros. If they continue along the recent path of doing that AND drafting well you've got a proces you can replicate and an annual infusion of talent.

[googleeph2]

[quote="Kingpin74"]90 something win pace[quote]

If this is happening in June, a LOT of Tribe fans are going to be pulling out the Dolan "we'll spend when the time is right" comment.

[aclayman]

Clayman's article was a great comparison of the two teams, and I understand at the end with the homegrown players section, but it irritates me that it's not really accepted that minor leaguers who come through the Indians system aren't considered "homegrown". Maybe we didn't draft them, but they developed here. We took minor leaguers and helped round them in to major leaguers.

In most cases, they've done just as much, if not more growing in our system than the system we got them from.

I realize the point, but just because we didn't draft them doesn't mean we didn't develop them.

I totally agree. I think that the main reason is that the thundering hoard of Shapiro haters would rather pull out their toenails with pliers than give Shap a have inch of credit if they can avoid it.

Meh...it's just acquisition method. Nothing being inferred in regard to developing young players. The opposite really if you know who the Indians received in the CC, Vic, CPLee deals.

They are excellent at identifying other young pros. If they continue along the recent path of doing that AND drafting well you've got a proces you can replicate and an annual infusion of talent.

Yeah, my use of the infamous "homegrown" tag was more about seeing the different methods the AL Central teams have used to build their cores. It really has nothing to do with assessing any of the clubs' minor league systems or talent development. It's more about who's managed to score big leaguers in the draft (Twins) and who has relied more on working the phones (Indians, White Sox). I think it would be a mistake, though, to say that trading for prospects is just as good as drafting them. If any of those failed first round picks had panned out for us, you're filling a position from within, allowing your trades more room to build depth. I've never been on one side of the fence on Shapiro. I don't think he's a genius or a moron. Each move should be looked at independently and weighed against its realistic alternatives. He's objectively done a great job fleecing the Mariners, at least.

Meanwhile, I don't think any bias or judgment is needed to find it intriguing that the Indians didn't draft a single position player on this year's team. Whether bad or good or irrelevant in the grand scheme, it's at least pretty odd when you think of the hundreds of picks we've had over the past decade.

[Jumbo]

I think it would be a mistake, though, to say that trading for prospects is just as good as drafting them. If any of those failed first round picks had panned out for us, you're filling a position from within, allowing your trades more room to build depth.

There's also the fact that trading for prospects implies that the team both has valuable pieces to trade and is out of contention for the season. So, even if trading for prospects is objectively a Good Move, it can create the kind of ill will that the Indians have picked up the last few years.

Of course, that doesn't make any difference now, when it comes it enjoying the team this year. But, if we're hoping/expecting/believing that the Indians are going to be successful the next few years, then it means that they aren't going to picking up impact prospects in trade. So, when it comes to replenishing the major league team over the next few years, it makes the recent drafts all the more important.

[skatingtripods]

Meanwhile, I don't think any bias or judgment is needed to find it intriguing that the Indians didn't draft a single position player on this year's team. Whether bad or good or irrelevant in the grand scheme, it's at least pretty odd when you think of the hundreds of picks we've had over the past decade.

Wasn't a condemnation of your column at all, Andrew. More of an overall observation/gripe.

I get, though, that it is strange to see the Indians with none of their drafted players in the lineup, and furthermore, on the bench as backups.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Last night's game showed that both these teams are still young and still need some seasoning in learning how to win and close out games. Looking back, this could prove be a crucial game for the development of the Indians. They were up for most of the game and in one fell swoop found themselves down in the late innings. Undaunted they (the bottom of the order no less!) tied the game up their very next at bat. After that, the Indians and Royals of old showed up with poor situational hitting and multiple terrible decisions from both sides. The 10th inning gave was very encouraging as they didn't let up once they got the lead.


Liking this team more and more every day.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Liking this team more and more every day.

Do you like them more than pictures of Brunettes with breakfast food?

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Liking this team more and more every day.

Do you like them more than pictures of Brunettes with breakfast food?

Not quite yet. And not nearly as much as I like burning effigies of ex-wives.