Will you go to games?

[Rally Squirl]

First off, in no way am i trying to be a dick head, and ive got thousands who think just like me. so....

are you going to drop cash on this year's indians? Im planning NOT to. 2 cy young winners gone 2 yrs in a row then Vic was enough for me. Il be WATCHING every single game but be dammned if i give a cent to our top 7 worst owner in sports. I really want em to win but at the sametime anything to make Dolan give up the team is a plus. I dont know, its going to be the same song and dance since that joke bought the team, i guarantee it.

go indians

[motherscratcher]

How exactly are you guaranteeing it?

[skatingtripods]

Watching his network increases ratings, which gives them a better price-per-point for advertising. But, hey, don't give him a cent!

Douche.

[Rally Squirl]

Well in terms of "guarantee" dolan hasn't put out cash to re-sign a player we previously locked up early.....ever. I don't think he magically going change his attitude and mind.

As for being a douche....well sorry you feel that way. I'll join my fellow douches at the bar instead of in the 30k epmty seats the other douces didn't buy.
B

But hey! You will have like a 300x better chance to be on camera!! Maybe try a real post instead of personal insult next time. And I believe if this were the product market a smart consumer would do the same. He's going to get his TV revenue regardless at least its not coming out of MY wallet. My cable bill stays the same no matter how much I watch

[RickNashEquilibrium]

Rally, while the Dolan's can take some blame in terms of the past 10 years of results, the Indians being a bad product is mostly due the lack of good drafting by Shapiro and the economics of baseball. My formula is simple, if the Indians are winning, I am going to go to some games which is the case right now. If they fall off the map and start sucking and Grady/Choo/Whoever gets traded, I am more prone to go the Lake County games because its right down the street from me. Again, as some other people put it, consistant winning will put people in the seats. It goes beyond what they do this year - gotta have YEARS of winning until people come back in droves.

[gotribe31]

First off, in no way am i trying to be a dick head

Fail

[swerb]

One of the ten most moronic posts in site history, and that's saying a lot.

Have had nothing to feel good about with this team for 3.5 years. Nothing but angst in these forums. They reel off six straight and you post this garbage?

The Cleveland.com forums are calling your name. Idiot.

[peeker643]

One of the ten most moronic posts in site history, and that's saying a lot.

Have had nothing to feel good about with this team for 3.5 years. Nothing but angst in these forums. They reel off six straight and you post this garbage?

The Cleveland.com forums are calling your name. Idiot.

He should start a 'Wedge- Bradley Disagree on Ear-Plugs' thread. That's a more thinly-veiled 'they reeled off six straight and you post this garbage' way to post such garbage.

I wish we would have kept the other 9 moronic posts in site history somewhere in the library. That would be tremendous to look back on.

We need a historian.

Can we at least set up a poll seeking to name the 3 biggest tools in TCF History?

cmstophe is my number one. Guy's gotta be here these days under a different screen name. Gotta be.

[Rally Squirl]

One of the ten most moronic posts in site history, and that's saying a lot.

Have had nothing to feel good about with this team for 3.5 years. Nothing but angst in these forums. They reel off six straight and you post this garbage?

The Cleveland.com forums are calling your name. Idiot.

meh, whatever. If I woulda posted when they are 1-6 id be called a bandwagon/fair weather, etc fan.

Keep in mind im not trashing the team or players, but once people start going to the games (which they wil and i dont blame them, the team is fun), Dolan will once again see that we settle for the meagerest of teams that manage to pull some Ws and will have a fire sale once again by 2015.

im not in the business of makin people kiss my ass and like be, but you can certainly line up to do the first option.

[peeker643]

You know, with as tough as it's been here baseball-wise and economically and with people in general staying away in droves, one might want to ask himself about the audience he's addressing when talking about going to games and following the games.

This is a community of pretty hard-core zealots regardless of whether you're speaking in terms of Indians, Cavs or Browns.

The people here, by and large, never STOPPED going to the games.

[BruceK]

I'm sure Rally Sqrl is looking forward to becoming a bitter old man, living alone in a decaying house, and yelling "Hey, kids, get off my lawn!"

[e0y2e3]

Can we merge this thread with Pros +/- thread and change the title to poop?

[peeker643]

Can we merge this thread with Pros +/- thread and change the title to poop?

Isn't it great how Pros goes all balls a blazin and guns up on his defense of +/- and then cites the dismembered corpse of Terry Pluto's newspaper career to defend it?

Oh.but...oh but....oh but.... they keep the stat at 82games. Therefore it's critical despite the fact they keep every fucking stat at 82games.

Christ almighty, I don't know whether to be disgusted anymore with some posters or disgusted with myself for not owning my own business that would summarily reject any application for employment these morons would color and submit.

God damn my youthful laziness.

[GodHatesClevelandSport]

But ... are the Dolans a Top 7 worst owner in sports if the Indians are good this year?

No question in my mind that the Dolans are in over their heads. Don't know if it had to be that way. They did buy high, and like most homeowners probably couldn't get back what they put into their investment if they sold it to today. I think everything was rolling along OK until the Hafner/Westbrook signings. In their zeal to prove to everyone they had the $$ to put out a good product, the Dolans chose to give $23 mil or so a year to those two instead of lock up Sabathia. The Hafner contract is still killing them, and will continue to bring them down the next two years. Unless he's found the Fountain of Youth.

Thing is, you going or not going to the games will have no effect on the Dolans' decisions regarding this team. You'll only be spiting yourself if you actually do want to go to the games but don't. With the availability of tickets on the secondary market, you can get good prices on tickets. The money is already in the Dolans' pockets. Then you can get into the stadium for lower prices, park on the street for free, bring your own food, and get a great deal without the Dolans touching a nickel of your money.

So go sit on the couch with your arms folded and scowl at the TV while you're watching the Indians. That'll show 'em.

[danwismar]

If I woulda posted when they are 1-6 id be called a bandwagon/fair weather, etc fan.

Huh?

Going for two spots in the top ten?

[hermanfontenot]

I have a feeling if the Indians keep winning people WILL come out to the games in a way they didn't in 2005 or 2007. The atmosphere in the city has changed since then, what with LeBron leaving and the Tribe struggling through back-to-back 90-loss seasons. People are more keen to jump on the bandwagon of any team that's performing well.

Don't have anything really concrete to base this on. I just have a feeling people really want to get excited about SOMETHING good in Cleveland sports right now.

[e0y2e3]

Herm - honestly that would make me really happy.

My problem isn't bad attendance, honestly, it is near no attendance. This is a city that still supports one of the worst run franchises of all time in the Browns with 100% loyalty. All I want for the Indians is for them to get "bad" support. Right now it's nonexistent.

[hermanfontenot]

Eeyore, a good chunk of the people that go to Browns games are there for the social experience, not the game itself. They're there to get wasted, grill steaks and toss footballs around the Muni lot. The stadium is half full at kickoff because the drunks don't stagger through the gates until the beginning of the second quarter.

For all the vaunted fan support the Browns get, I'm actually not too impressed with the overall knowledge or savvy of the fans. They're not there to support the team- a lot of them, at any rate. They're there to drink, eat and boo.

I think the years of losing has corroded the quality of the Browns fanbase, honestly.

[e0y2e3]

I feel that and have read that from many peeps I respect. But that opens the door to the whole "why in the fuck do Cleveland fans never stop crowing about how awesome a fanbase they are" argument.

I mean, I see Boston fan daily and while they are the most blessed fan-base ever they continue to impress with their support (and they have as many stupid fans as anywhere else). If Cleveland is really just an excuse to get drunk fan-base, fine, admit that and STFU.

[motherscratcher]

I feel that and have read that from many peeps I respect. But that opens the door to the whole "why in the fuck do Cleveland fans never stop crowing about how awesome a fanbase they are" argument.

I mean, I see Boston fan daily and while they are the most blessed fan-base ever they continue to impress with their support (and they have as many stupid fans as anywhere else). If Cleveland is really just an excuse to get drunk fan-base, fine, admit that and STFU.

I do think that the makeup of the fanbase is due to success of the team. Herm's right about the a lot of Browns fans at the games being a lot of drunks how care more about the booze than the team, but give the Browns success like the Pats have had the last decade and the stadium is full. They're still drunk, but it's full of the same type of fans you are talking about in Boston.

[hermanfontenot]

I feel that and have read that from many peeps I respect. But that opens the door to the whole "why in the fuck do Cleveland fans never stop crowing about how awesome a fanbase they are" argument.

I think Cleveland does have a great fanbase and that it is a great football town. But the culture of losing doesn't stop with the team.

You can't put fans through what the Browns have put them through for twenty years and expect the level and sophistication of support to just continue unabated.

And from what I hear about Boston, not all teams there are created equal either. My impression has always been that it's a Sox-Celtics-Bruins town first with the Pats not quite at that level. It wasn't exactly SRO at Foxboro when the Pats were owned by Victor Kiam and going 2-14 every year.

[e0y2e3]

I will say that the Pats and Boston's relationship pisses me off - as it is a bandwagon new era fan-base. That said - the Celtics, Bruins and Sawx have real fan-bases that blow me away.

The people here at TCF impress me as fans too.

But I just don't get having no attendance numbers. When the Celtics tanked for Durant I sat court-side on the cheap a few times, loved it and there was still over 50% attendance for a team that was obviously tanking. The Bruins have possibly the worst owner in the history of sports and they still have never approached this year Indians capacity.

The Pat's, well, fuck the Pats. My one golden win over Boston fan is that I knew the NFL existed before 1994.

[hermanfontenot]

IMO what's going on with the Tribe is as much a conscious boycott as unconscious neglect. It isn't like how it was with the pre-LeBron Cavaliers, who could have slipped away to Vegas without people here finding out for a month.

[e0y2e3]

1) you nailed it re the Cavs. Cleveland really doesn't give a fuck at all about hoops and in a few years it'll be just like the Ricky Blunt era.

2) My problem is that Cleveland supposedly does care about the Tribe. How do you consciously boycott this team? Pauly C nailed this situation so perfect in today's article it can't be stated and clearer. That is my disconnect. I'm not an MLB first guy, but fuck I'm almost hurt by this showing.

[e0y2e3]

And FWIW: Bruins fans did consciously object to the and boycott the Bruins thanks to fuckstain owning them before the new CBA.

I dare you, or anyone here, to look up fuckstains record and worth as an owner and comp it to Dolan. Dolan's bad rap is absurdly miss-appropriated.

[e0y2e3]

Perspective: http://espn.go.com/page2/s/2001/0710/1224543.html

And I once sat down with Jacobs in a meeting to work on a development that would have been attached to the Garden. That is a slime-fucking-ball.

[Rat_Tail]

6-2 start and all this negativity? Cleveland sure has some bitter fans.

Friday is dolla dog night. If the Tribe can come home with an 8-4 record and it doesn't end up raining there better be at least 20K in the stands or this fan base is seriously embarrassing itself.

[e0y2e3]

And for fuck's sake you assholes have no put me on the same side of an argument as Rat-Retard. I gotta find a rope now.

[swerb]

I have a feeling if the Indians keep winning people WILL come out to the games in a way they didn't in 2005 or 2007. The atmosphere in the city has changed since then, what with LeBron leaving and the Tribe struggling through back-to-back 90-loss seasons. People are more keen to jump on the bandwagon of any team that's performing well.

Don't have anything really concrete to base this on. I just have a feeling people really want to get excited about SOMETHING good in Cleveland sports right now.

I agree.

This fan base right now is so volatile. More so than I've ever seen it. Ready to ignore a loser and embrace a winner. The extremes on both ends of the spectrum are greater than I've ever seen it.

[The Brook]

I'm going to the games on Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday :)

[Bayou Tribe]

I'll be making two games during the Rangers series (first week of June). I was amped up out of my brain about that trip before the win streak. Not having pro ball around here, trying to catch the Tribe on my ipad or gametracker, when I have a shot to see them live in Cleveland it's like Christmas morning.

[FUDU]

Good article by Paulie C.

IMO there is just so much that goes into why a fan base (in CTown) gets into going to Tribe and Cavs games. I exclude the Browns b/c this IS a football town and as Herm said there are other extracurriculars the have been adapted by football fans (nationwide) that attract a lot of people to go to a Browns games just for something to do (and not for football).

I think economics is over looked as a reason why NEO can be so disinterested in their baseball and hoops teams at times. But make no mistake about it, Cleveland (NEO) will support a winner in baseball and basketball, they've proven it. The problem is we seem to go from one extreme to the other. Granted neither the Tribe or Cavaliers have won a title since I was a gleam in the old man's eye, but we've had some pretty damn good teams, then we seem to go right into the gutter. Rarely does either franchise go into a span of mediocre/competitive success to keep a larger number of fans front and center for the turn.

I'll be the first to admit I'm a fair weather fan of how baseball plays out in this town, I'm a baseball fan (it's a great game) but I dislike how MLB is set up and run, and for me it plays out directly in my back yard with the Indians. But I'll be damned if young teams with starts like this won't get me down there 10 times this summer to get back into it, if not for the thrill of a championship alone. Call me selfish I don't care.

[Kingpin74]

I've been as critical of the Dolans as anyone but I've averaged probably 20 games a season since '04 for two simple reasons: 1. I love the Tribe/MLB and 2. I don't cut off my nose to spite my face. It would take Marissa Miller holding two pitchers of beer (a la Happy Gilmore's dream) to keep me away from Progressive this weekend and I think more and more fans will start following suit. Whether I like the Dolans or not, the fortunes of the Cleveland Indians are unlikely to improve unless interested fans like me buy tickets. It's still a great stadium, the season has good weather for the most part, the prices are reasonable, and baseball is a fun spectator sport.

And as FUDU sort of touched on, the attendance issues, as unfortunate as they have been, are a bit miscast. They had some real momentum after the '05 and '07 seasons and completely squandered it after terrible starts. So the attendance problem is more like a petty issue (dislike of the Dolans) that was able to snowball because the team sucked at the worst possible times. I'm not downplaying the putrid numbers but I think they're easily cured by winning this time. This is still a passionate (albeit dormant) baseball town and as mentioned before, it's a much different sports climate in 2011 compared to 2008. The LeBron hurt/anger has made us a lot more defensive and a lot more likely to support a new winner no questions asked.

And I'm glad someone came out and said why the Browns sell out games so easily. The 8 game social scene is why football vs. baseball/basketball/hockey is a total apples vs. oranges comparison. Is the Kentucky Derby such a popular event to attend because of hardcore thoroughbred racing fans? No. Do SEC sorority girls flock to games because they love the intricacies of Gus Malzahn's offense? No. This is obviously a football town but take out the social element and you'd have a lot more people sticking with TV like they have for the Indians.

[tribetalk]

I will say this, if the Indians win this Angels series, I really think you will see some massive walk-up crowds next weekend and dare I say 23-25k?

I am not being an optimist, I am being a realist. Go Tribe!

[e0y2e3]

FWIW: Kingpin (the good one) just opened a huge can of worms I have not even touched on.

Cleveland has one of the five best baseball stadiums in the country.

And no one goes.

I did my part, I bought the MLB package. That is all I can do.

[e0y2e3]

And FWIW II: there are 13 guests reading this forum right now. People are starting to look and that is good.

[swerb]

I will say this, if the Indians win this Angels series, I really think you will see some massive walk-up crowds next weekend and dare I say 23-25k?

I am not being an optimist, I am being a realist. Go Tribe!

I agree. Fans desire to feel good about something will outweigh Joe Fan's dislike for the Dolans. The weather too ... people been cooped up for 3 months. This winter sucked.

We keep this up, this team will draw.

Ticket prices are amongst the lowest in the league now too. And yes, the Prog is an outstanding park.

Shame the Indians are so abysmal at marketing and PR.

[FUDU]

What if they never built Progressive Field?

[hermanfontenot]

What if they never built Progressive Field?

There'd be 50,000 at the Stadium on Friday night.

(I went to a game in 1986, the year the Indians won 84 games, where there were 72,000 in attendance. For a baseball game. Amazing.

[e0y2e3]

^ still waiting for one of yall to telll me why it didnt just change, it went polar opposite.

I reallly want to defend Cleveland fan. Please tell me why and how.

[hermanfontenot]

^ still waiting for one of yall to telll me why it didnt just change, it went polar opposite.

Remember back in the day when the Sacramento Kings were terrible every year, their best player was, like, Wayman Tisdale, and yet they sold out every game?

Well, the Kings are again terrible... and they no longer sell out every game. What changed?

Simple. They got a glimpse of the mountaintop.

[e0y2e3]

Kings still have attendance that runs in the top half of the league per capacity and have an awesome effort to keep them home going on right now.

The self proclaimed best sports town ever is fighting for the worst attendance in the history of the MLB.

[motherscratcher]

What if they never built Progressive Field?

There'd be 50,000 at the Stadium on Friday night.

(I went to a game in 1986, the year the Indians won 84 games, where there were 72,000 in attendance. For a baseball game. Amazing.

It's not when you are talking about, but I remember a game in the late 80s when 70,000 showed up to vote Sandy Jr in the All Star game. Maybe i have that wrong, but that's how I remember it.

[DeanSheen]

I already have. (gone to games)

This start is impressive and we all hope it continues.

Either you accept that Shapiro effed this whole thing up (mostly) or I keep yelling at clouds.

[e0y2e3]

( think me and Dean need an internet HUG )

[RickNashEquilibrium]

Its like what DJ Shadow said years after his semi-revolutionary album Endtroducing....., "Repeat Endtroducing over and over again? That was never, ever in the game plan. Fuck that. So I think it's time for certain fans to decide if they are fans of the album, or the artist."

Seriously, I understand being pissed off at the Dolans/Shapiro, but you either a fan of baseball or a fan of winning. If you're a fan of the latter, consider yourself one of the local Yankee bandwagoners that infect The Jake a couple times a year. The weather is nice, the team is playing great, and its muthafuckin' baseball on the North Coast and 85° on April 10th. Tribe Time bitches.

[FUDU]

What if they never built Progressive Field?

There'd be 50,000 at the Stadium on Friday night.

(I went to a game in 1986, the year the Indians won 84 games, where there were 72,000 in attendance. For a baseball game. Amazing.

C'mon now I was playing off of Swerb's set up, with the Indians worst marketing campaign in a long time the "what if" crap.

I remember a lot of Indian nation being a bit upset b/c the Jake was built for 40K instead of the 80K of the old Muni, LOL.

Herm you might remember this, IIRC 87 when we were competing (with Carter, Snyder etc...) and the Tribe won 10 in a row, wasn't there a few sell outs or close to it, I remember being at the Blue Jay game the 10th win or 11th maybe and the place was jam packed?

While the Jake is a great stadium I've been in about 8-9 of the newer built ones since Camden and I have to say once you're in em you can get the cookie cutter feel they have to them, IMO the uniqueness of some of them wears off.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

I'm sure the few thousand people that are out $1K+ on their Cavs season tickets aren't too keen to spend more money on a losing sports team right about now. Specially on a Cleveland budget. Hell, it could just be post LBJ hangover keeping people away. The Decision fucked with a lot of people's outlooks on sports in general.

Next year will be the true litmus test. When there's >10K in the Q and the LBJ stink has worn off, will we still have such shit crowds at the Jake?

Also, I know that when I looked at the 25 man before the season, I thought we were facing a 55 win season. When the Sox went up 14-0, I had never had lower hopes for a team's season so early (non-Browns edition). The timing of this streak could be the best thing that ever happened.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Yes I will go.

[swerb]

Whoever was responsible for the "What If" marketing campaign should be fired immediately.

Never seen anything that bad in my life when it comes to sports marketing. How can you be so disconnected with the pulse of your fan base?