Chad Durbin?

[peeker643]

Which Major League offer did he turn down to take ours?

He had no other offers on the table when he signed with the Indians. Just like the stiff Germano.

But if it helps your headache to win this one, go ahead.

Bwah!!

People want stats, they get stats, they want proof of offers, they get proof of offers, yet they're so hell bent on hating that they can't let it go. That's cool. You're haters. You can't see past it.

I can.

I don't give a shit if Chad Durbin pitches for this team. If Chad Durbin walked into my house right now and shat on the floor I wouldn't know who he was. After the initial shock I'd demand an answer or two and to see his ID before I shot but initially I wouldn't know who it was.

I do know he does a mediocre to decent job of getting out major league hitters. The Indians play a major league schedule. Therefore I'm fine with Chad Durbin on the roster while three guys closer to 30 than 20 bide their time and hope to one day be the next Chad Durbin.

And if Chad Durbin's mediocre major league ass gets waived after a spate of bad outings and one of the precocious kids who could have been doctors by now get a chance then Bully for them and so long to Chip Drebbin.

Alright. This has been an exciting evening and the party got a little out of control when that condescending short busser had to press his bet. But you know, doing what I do for a living there comes a time in a negotiation when you're supposed to concede a little something so that your adversary (and not in a real life sense Pup, you know that) can walk away with a little bit of dignity.

So let it be known that I have no affinity for Chad Durbin. He's not even close to the pitching equivalent of Jamey Carroll so if you guys wanna dnosco it and call for someone's head over giving a major league pitcher $800k while the Golden Girls go wanting and waiting their turn in Columbus I will not tell you how petty and ridiculous you sound.

Hate away.

[Ziner]

Three fucking pages on Chad Durbin, thanks for reminding me why I travel over to this forum but once a month.

[leadpipe]

THE TRIBE BOARDS ARE COOKIN' WITH GAS!!!!

Love it.

And Pros, if you're going to put nonsensical posts (and retorts) in every forum, cut down the condecension level. Might save you a bludgeoning or three.

[TonyIPI]

I've got no real problems with the Durbin signing. Only paying him about $380K more than the minimum salary guy he is replacing on the 25-man and there is no shortage of candidates worthy of removal on the 40-man to get him on it.

I have three small concerns with the signing though. 1.) He pitched effectively in the NL....but how much of that was because it was the NL where for just about every team the 7-8-9 guys are black holes? 2.) the lack of offers from ML teams is disturbing, and several teams have mentioned they viewed him as just a kick the tires minor league signing guy. 3.) Pushing another young guy back is really creating a logjam in Columbus/Akron with quality relief prospects.

To expound on the third point, you've got major league depth like Todd, Martinez, Germano, Herrmann, Pestano, Judy, Laffey, Putnam, and Stowell fighting for the last spot and then the 7 spots in Columbus. This does not include other relievers like C.C. Lee, Price, Graham, Espino, etc who should all get consideration for COlumbus, especially Lee who is the best or one of the top 3 relievers in our system.

There is obviously a lot of gunk in there with the likes of Martinez, Germano, Graham, etc.....but going by their history they keep some of that gunk around and will send someone back to another leverl. I will be fine with whatever they do so long as Pestano, Judy, Putnam, Stowell, and Lee are all in Columbus as that is the future core and our top guys in the upper levels. If they push one of them back to Akron, then I will have a small problem with it.

These moves have a trickle down effect. While it may make sense for the big league team, sometimes it has an affect on the guys below. You know, the future. One of our biggest problems in the past is hitting on our prospects and finishing off their development....part of that problem is/may be our lack of trust in them and not being aggressive enough with some guys where they instead bury them with vet signings.

[Prosecutor]

Good times.

One National League scout was sure of it.

"Durbin is the 13th pitcher on a 12-man staff," the scout said.

Which is why he was still on the street one week after spring training started. And why the Phillies only let him pitch two innings in two playoff series last year.

However, there is a very real possibility that Herrmann, Germano, and Pestano are also 13th pitchers on 12-man staffs. We'll find out eventually, probably this year.

After reading over the posts, including Peeker's unfortunate meltdown in which he once again displayed his anger management issue, I've come to the conclusion that Al pretty much nailed it. It's not a matter of comparing this pitcher to that based on performance to try and make sense of the signing. It's something else.

As Al said, the Tribe knows that bullpens are "fickle things". Pitchers go from good to very bad in one season with no warning, like Raffie Perez, whose ERA dropped from 3.54 in 2008 to 7.31 in 2009. (Oops, those were stats, there goes Peeker's blood pressure). Or Wicky, who went from 45 saves to out of baseball by the following May. There's also the chance of injury. Kerry Wood broke camp as our closer last year but nagging injuries made him completely ineffective and he was traded.

So I believe the plan is to have 10-11 qualified arms ready and available to fill seven relief slots. The Tribe wants Durbin AND those other guys. It's not either/or. I think I was mistaken in looking at it that way. But I enjoy that type of analysis. It's not for everybody. If comparing one player to another through the use of statistics infuriates you, just skip my posts.

The reason Durbin is getting the first shot is that he was a free agent and could walk away if he didn't get a major league contract. Those younger guys are contractually tied to the Indians and have no say in where they pitch this year. If the Indians wanted Durbin they had to give him a major league deal.

For all I know they may like Pestano and Herrmann better than Durbin, but if they want to have extra arms to cover injuries or unexpected meltdowns like we've seen in the recent past, they needed to give Durbin the first shot. I hope we can squeeze a good year out of him, but I expect that he'll eventually prove that he's the 13th man on a 12-man staff.

That's all I have to say on this subject, other than to point out to Ziner that this was not a 3-page thread on Chad Durbin. It was a 3-page thread about whether the Indians hurt themselves in the long run by signing mediocre veterans that take major league reps away from young prospects with upsides who have a proven track record of success or dominance at the AAA level. Durbin was only the lastest example.

Finally, here's a preview of the Indians' bullpen from mlb.com which was kind of the basis for my questioning of the Durbin signing.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... e&c_id=cle

[peeker643]

I can't quote fully Tony because of the limited capabilities of the system I'm currently on, but the last paragraph is all that matters to Cleveland Indians fans.

That the move makes sense to them, the major league team.

Yes, they have to keep a watchful eye to ensure the kids are alright and grow, but they first and foremost have to do what makes sense to the major league team. Despite how much interest one has in the minor league affiliates and players in the system.

I also see no issue with having the depth and quality you noted at Columbus and Akron. That's healthy and it's important. And if the major league team executives are efficient and effective they will move out the major league trash and replace it with the kids who have earned it in the minor leagues. People here have a hard time separating the fact the front office signs a major league pitcher in Durbin but isn't proactive enough in removing guys who are ineffective. Don't hate the player and all that.

Between injuries and ineffectiveness many of the guys you mentioned will be called upon this season so your system better be deep. And if it's a kid that's ineffective then he should be moved out for another 'kid' just as if Durbin is crap he should go. But all the animosity about the move itself from others is simply unwarranted.

The other stuff? Meh. Citizens Bank is a friendlier RPG and HRPG park than Progressive Field. And I don't have the time or inclination to look it up, but I find it hard to believe that 1/3 of a lineup (NL) is crap. I'd also like to know how many pitchers Durbin faced in that mix. I'd bet the number is small.

[peeker643]

Which is why he was still on the street one week after spring training started. And why the Phillies only let him pitch two innings in two playoff series last year.

However, there is a very real possibility that Herrmann, Germano, and Pestano are also 13th pitchers on 12-man staffs. We'll find out eventually, probably this year.

After reading over the posts, including Peeker's unfortunate meltdown in which he once again displayed his anger management issue, I've come to the conclusion that Al pretty much nailed it. It's not a matter of comparing this pitcher to that based on performance to try and make sense of the signing. It's something else.

As Al said, the Tribe knows that bullpens are "fickle things". Pitchers go from good to very bad in one season with no warning, like Raffie Perez, whose ERA dropped from 3.54 in 2008 to 7.31 in 2009. (Oops, those were stats, there goes Peeker's blood pressure). Or Wicky, who went from 45 saves to out of baseball by the following May. There's also the chance of injury. Kerry Wood broke camp as our closer last year but nagging injuries made him completely ineffective and he was traded.

So I believe the plan is to have 10-11 qualified arms ready and available to fill seven relief slots. The Tribe wants Durbin AND those other guys. It's not either/or. I think I was mistaken in looking at it that way.

Really? You think that's the plan you window licker? To have more qualified arms than spots and that Durbin is one of them? Cuz some guys either get hurt or are ineffective? And that they'd like to have a mix of veterans and younger guys? And that usually the veterans get first crack?

You're a fucking genius Pros. Well done. Glad someone was able to reason that 3rd grade principle into ya. Which stats finally and fully convinced you?

What a douchebag.

Anger management my balls. I admittedly have idiot management issues. And you might well wear the crown for biggest idiot on these pages. Thank Christ your Browns posts are minimal.

Thank you for patronizing the site though. Appreciate it. Come back soon and visit us again.

[TonyIPI]

And I don't have the time or inclination to look it up, but I find it hard to believe that 1/3 of a lineup (NL) is crap. I'd also like to know how many pitchers Durbin faced in that mix. I'd bet the number is small.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/s ... yerId=4210

Numbers by batting order last year:

1: .321/.345/.500/.845 (28 at bats)
2. .393/.433/.500/.933 (28 at bats)
3. .152/.222/.152/.374 (33 at bats)
4. .269/.429/.423/.852 (26 at bats)
5. .267/.405/.567/.972 (30 at bats)
6. .222/.323/.444/.767 (27 at bats)
7. .269/.387/.615/1.002 (26 at bats)
8. .148/.200/.296/.496 (27 at bats)
9. .194/.194/.258/.452 (31 at bats)

Dunno if it means anything. I am sure everyone has lower BAA/OBP/SLG/OPS versus the bottom of the order. But is concerning that last year 5 of the 7 tops spots in the order had a .845 OPS or higher against him.

[peeker643]

And I don't have the time or inclination to look it up, but I find it hard to believe that 1/3 of a lineup (NL) is crap. I'd also like to know how many pitchers Durbin faced in that mix. I'd bet the number is small.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/s ... yerId=4210

Numbers by batting order last year:

1: .321/.345/.500/.845 (28 at bats)
2. .393/.433/.500/.933 (28 at bats)
3. .152/.222/.152/.374 (33 at bats)
4. .269/.429/.423/.852 (26 at bats)
5. .267/.405/.567/.972 (30 at bats)
6. .222/.323/.444/.767 (27 at bats)
7. .269/.387/.615/1.002 (26 at bats)
8. .148/.200/.296/.496 (27 at bats)
9. .194/.194/.258/.452 (31 at bats)

Dunno if it means anything. I am sure everyone has lower BAA/OBP/SLG/OPS versus the bottom of the order. But is concerning that last year 5 of the 7 tops spots in the order had a .845 OPS or higher against him.

I dunno either. But if they can just bring him to face the 3rd or 6th hitter he'll be fine

And hell, better off facing the 4th hitter than that 7th hole guy.

Still betting that 9th spot was actually a greater number of PHs than Ps hitting. Those guys still come in cold and I'd assume overall their numbers would be higher than 194/194/258 but not a huge sample either way. Thanks for grabbing the numbers.

[Prosecutor]

"Thanks for grabbing the numbers."

Maybe next time you can do your own research so Tony won't have to hold your dick.

Oh, and thanks for reminding me I've been neglecting the Browns board. I'll have to fix that.

[Dellucci TailGator]

Going on a tangent here.

Know those guys who you swore played for the Indians longer and got more chances than they really did? Durbin was one of those guys to me. Seemed like he started 50 games for the Indians as they tried to solve his puzzling ineffectiveness despite the good stuff.

Despite his Job-like existence in Buffalo and Charlotte, Albie Lopez only made 69 appearances with the Indians. That's stunning to me.

Steve Woodard was the other whom I swore started a million games in Cleveland. In reality? 21.

Heathcliff Slocumb? Only 20 appearances.

The five fabulous episodes of Kane Davis.

End tangent.

[peeker643]

"Thanks for grabbing the numbers."

Maybe next time you can do your own research so Tony won't have to hold your dick.

Oh, and thanks for reminding me I've been neglecting the Browns board. I'll have to fix that.

Dear Tony- please stop holding my dick.

Thank you.

Peeker643


Anyone doubting how dumb you are can stop doubting about now.

Do you need a thermometer to know that you shouldn't stick your hands into a grease fryer ya dipshit? No? Same way ya don't need research to know what Al C told ya.

Now try and not lick any light sockets, mmkay?

BTW: You're welcome on the Browns board. You're welcome anywhere you can not be a stark, raving idiot.

Good luck. Tick..tick..tick..tick

[peeker643]

I love this thread.

Reminds me of last year when we got to read 2000 words on why Z is a better starting center than Shaq (compliments of Pros and a +/- article).

Check out Bosh's line: http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310224004

Prosecutor as Bosh comes off the floor- "Good game big fella, not your fault out there tonight. Fuckin' Wade was -4 and killed us."



Ahhh.....

[skatingtripods]

I sense I've missed something here. I need motherscratcher or CDT to recap it for me.

[redneckofsc]

"Thanks for grabbing the numbers."

Maybe next time you can do your own research so Tony won't have to hold your dick.

Oh, and thanks for reminding me I've been neglecting the Browns board. I'll have to fix that.

Dear Tony- please stop holding my dick.

Thank you.

Peeker643


Anyone doubting how dumb you are can stop doubting about now.

Do you need a thermometer to know that you shouldn't stick your hands into a grease fryer ya dipshit? No? Same way ya don't need research to know what Al C told ya.

Now try and not lick any light sockets, mmkay?

BTW: You're welcome on the Browns board. You're welcome anywhere you can not be a stark, raving idiot.

Good luck. Tick..tick..tick..tick

Someone needs a hug

[peeker643]

I'll go to a game with you when you come up an we'll play the rest by ear.

Jeez.

"Thanks for grabbing the numbers."

Maybe next time you can do your own research so Tony won't have to hold your dick.

Oh, and thanks for reminding me I've been neglecting the Browns board. I'll have to fix that.

Dear Tony- please stop holding my dick.

Thank you.

Peeker643


Anyone doubting how dumb you are can stop doubting about now.

Do you need a thermometer to know that you shouldn't stick your hands into a grease fryer ya dipshit? No? Same way ya don't need research to know what Al C told ya.

Now try and not lick any light sockets, mmkay?

BTW: You're welcome on the Browns board. You're welcome anywhere you can not be a stark, raving idiot.

Good luck. Tick..tick..tick..tick

Someone needs a hug

[Jumbo]

Going on a tangent here.

Know those guys who you swore played for the Indians longer and got more chances than they really did?

Two words. Jason Bere.

11 starts in 2000. 2 in 2003. And that's it. And I still think he was on the team like 3 years ago.

[Prosecutor]

Durbin only pitched 59 innings for the Tribe over two years. He was really bad with ERA's over 6 both years. He finally found his role as a reliever and made over $2 million last year, so sticking it out paid off for him.

Well, this seems to be winding down so I guess I'm out of here. I'd like to thank Peeker for doing an excellent job as a moderator and keeping things under control and the discussion focused on baseball. And thanks to Al, Paul, and Tony for weighing in with good insights.

[peeker643]

Durbin only pitched 59 innings for the Tribe over two years. He was really bad with ERA's over 6 both years. He finally found his role as a reliever and made over $2 million last year, so sticking it out paid off for him.

Well, this seems to be winding down so I guess I'm out of here. I'd like to thank Peeker for doing an excellent job as a moderator and keeping things under control and the discussion focused on baseball. And thanks to Al, Paul, and Tony for weighing in with good insights.

Thanks. Appreciate your loyalty and input as always.

As a moderator my main focus is on banning High Quality Cheap Jersey salesmen. I really don't have time for much else.

I found letting you go off was far more effective. You'll also note there are other mods here. You can certainly appeal to their sense of fairness and equity at any time.

[gotribe31]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not (mainly because I've been avoiding this thread for a little while now), but there's also the chance that if Durbin pitches well, he becomes a Type A or B free agent that would give us draft pick compensation after the season. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

Not saying it is GOING to happen, but it very well could.

[pup]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not (mainly because I've been avoiding this thread for a little while now), but there's also the chance that if Durbin pitches well, he becomes a Type A or B free agent that would give us draft pick compensation after the season. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

Not saying it is GOING to happen, but it very well could.

What level was he this year?

[gotribe31]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not (mainly because I've been avoiding this thread for a little while now), but there's also the chance that if Durbin pitches well, he becomes a Type A or B free agent that would give us draft pick compensation after the season. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

Not saying it is GOING to happen, but it very well could.

What level was he this year?

Type B. It's not unreasonable (I don't think) to think he could put up similar #'s and get us a sandwich pick.

[pup]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not (mainly because I've been avoiding this thread for a little while now), but there's also the chance that if Durbin pitches well, he becomes a Type A or B free agent that would give us draft pick compensation after the season. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

Not saying it is GOING to happen, but it very well could.

What level was he this year?

Type B. It's not unreasonable (I don't think) to think he could put up similar #'s and get us a sandwich pick.

Cool.

[TonyIPI]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or not (mainly because I've been avoiding this thread for a little while now), but there's also the chance that if Durbin pitches well, he becomes a Type A or B free agent that would give us draft pick compensation after the season. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

Not saying it is GOING to happen, but it very well could.

What level was he this year?

Type B. It's not unreasonable (I don't think) to think he could put up similar #'s and get us a sandwich pick.

Good point Al.

Two problems though, 1.) I don't see any way he sticks with the Indians all year and 2.) even if he does I don't see them offering him arbitration. Heck, even if they were stupid enough to do so, no team would sign especially if he cost them a 1st round pick as a Type A. He barely found a team this offseason....dude's gonna need one hell of a season this year to warrant a team willing to pony up for that (including the Indians). Never say never, and I did not think of that before you brought it up....but very, very unlikely.