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The HR record: Are we focusing on the wrong guy?

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The HR record: Are we focusing on the wrong guy?

Unread postby FUDU » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:37 am

Chances are bonds is going to take down Aaron's record, and as of right now there is no reason to think it will not happen this year but are we putting our focus on him too much instead of a player we really should be focusing on in regards to the record?

This is a record that has stood and been chased for 30 some odd years and yet if broken this year it could be broken, if not shattered, in around 7 more years.

I think we may need to start calling ARod HRod.

I am not bringing him up b/c I am a fan of his, I am indifferent as to how successful ARod is but it is hard to ignore what he is doing and has been for 11+ years now.

In April of 1996 did you think there was an up & coming youngster that would not only have a shot at one of sports most sacred records but possibly destroy it?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3115

Those are some quietly impressive and ever increasing numbers for a 31 year old that stays pretty damn healthy.

Let's say bonds gets to 760 this year, not unreasonable IMO.

That would put ARod 284 behind not counting the number of HR's he hits the remainder of this season, barring injury I think we can safely put that number at 40-45 (after the start he is off to), I'll go with 40 for now. That is another 28 this year knocking the difference to the record down to 256.

Going by ARod's average of 40 HR/year (actually is is 42) he could/should get to 760 in 6.5 years, age 37. That is not counting the possibility that in some years he may have closer to 50+ HR's obviously helping his cause. All this is predicated on barring any serious injury of course.

As of today I am of the opinion that ARod's chances of breaking the HR record that Barry will soon set are extremely good and believe he can take it to 800.

He is just so consistent with his power numbers, almost as if he doesn't need one of those freakish spike years to really vault him into the possibilities of all this like Bonds needed.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:42 am

Yes, A-Rod has a legit shot. Although, still a looooong way away from that record. Everyone thought Griffey was going to do it, then BAM, injuries cropped up.

But, if he stays healthy, A-Rod definitely will contest that record. Especially (which I think is key) if he stays in NY where the lineup is loaded and he has protection all around him. Bonds easily could have another 50-80 HRs if he was not walked so much....
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Unread postby FUDU » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:53 am

Bonds easily could have another 50-80 HRs if he was not walked so much....



True but he could easily be stuck around 600-650 right now as well if steroids weren't involved.

Which IMO is another reason to really look at what ARod is doing, not that you or I know for sure but you never here ARod's name in the steroid talk and in the age of steroids if he does this legitimately that is big big props.
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Unread postby tribetalk » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:54 am

We'd be saying Barry WHO had Griffey never been injured. Everyone would be behind Jr. and be packing into the Great American Ballpark in Cincy for every game to see him chase the record.

But regardless, whether you like him or hate him, which I do hate him; Barry is going to get the record, and its only appropriate for the MLB to hold a celebration for him.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:02 pm

FUDU wrote:
Bonds easily could have another 50-80 HRs if he was not walked so much....



True but he could easily be stuck around 600-650 right now as well if steroids weren't involved.

Which IMO is another reason to really look at what ARod is doing, not that you or I know for sure but you never here ARod's name in the steroid talk and in the age of steroids if he does this legitimately that is big big props.


IMO, if people are going to get on Bonds with the steroid stuff, I don't see why other like Pujols, Manny, Thome, Giambi, and all the others do not as well. Obviously, Giambi has. But, I also have to question A-Rod or any other slugger in the past 10-15 years.

Personally, I can give two shits about the steroid issue. Unless I know for a fact about a player taking them, then I will give everyone their just due, including Bonds.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:12 pm

Barry has found himself in the unique situation of either being A. The greatest player of our lifetime or B. A fraud. There isn't that courtesy of the in between with some of the guys Consig mentions.

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Unread postby FUDU » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:13 pm

Personally, I can give two shits about the steroid issue.


I agree that if others are as "guilty" as Bonds SEEMS to be they should get some heat as well.

As an overall issue though you have no problem with these guys cheating by using steroids? I understand the whole "it wasn't against MLB rules" argument but it is still illegitimizes competition. How is that fair to the players of yester year that set most of the records that today's player is chasing?

Aaron sets the HR legitimately at 755 but we should dance up & down the streets when it is broken by a guy that used steroids to increase his ability to hit HR's and break that same record? Not a chance. (For the sake of argument only I am assuming Bonds is guilty of using steroids understanding it may not be fair of me to do so).
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:30 pm

I am just agnostic to the whole steriod debate. For as much as it supposedly has helped some, I believe it also has hindered others.

I have no idea when Barry Bonds starting taking steroids, or if he ever has......but one thing I know, is he has always been a great player. Was he roiding in Pittsburgh when he was an MVP? Was he roiding up his first year in SF when he hit 46 bombs in 1993? He's almost always been a 35-45 HR a year guy. Just the one gork year in 2001 when he hit 73. I dunno. He looks to be on the stuff, and the BALCO stuff seems to show he was.....but I am still unsure how much it can be considered cheating.

I don't care how big and powerful you are, you still need to be able to see and hit the ball. I mean, wasn't Jeremy Giambi on steroids supposedly? Sure worked wonders on his career.

Speaking of the Giambi's, Jason Giambi hit 28 career HRs in the minors in five years (919 ABs). Mark McGwire takes him under his wings when Giambi comes to Oakland for good in 95/96 and look what happens.

FWIW, I still contend the increased HRs and such are a result of a juiced baseball and not so much for juiced players.
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Unread postby FUDU » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:09 pm

FWIW, I still contend the increased HRs and such are a result of a juiced baseball and not so much for juiced players.


Probably some of both.

I put up a post a few years ago, IIRC in the rant, about how steroids undoubtedly improves power numbers and the ability to hit HR's. I linked a really good explanation by a physicist that I will have to try to dig up just so you can read it for your own entertainment value.
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Unread postby Guest » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:33 pm

Even if Baroid was clean, ARod will still the best player of our generation.
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Unread postby sandlot33 » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:38 pm

IMO who really cares if Bonds cheated. he found away to get an advantage, which was totaly legal at the time. They were not banned substances when he took them. Taking the roids that he took in no way helped him with hand eye coordination, and most importantly, the hardest thing in sports to do, hit a curveball. just helped him hit it a little farther. As much as I hate the guy, he is the best MLB player EVER to play the game and i could give a flying fuck if he juiced up or not.
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Unread postby FUDU » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:43 am

Taking the roids that he took in no way helped him with hand eye coordination, and most importantly, the hardest thing in sports to do, hit a curveball. just helped him hit it a little farther.


This is so beyond wrong I will have to make a more detailed reply, probably tomorrow.

Steroids not only significantly increases bat speed but curve balls go farther than fast balls. Steroids is a HUGE advantage.

I will do my best to put up my response within the next 48 hours.
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Unread postby sandlot33 » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:57 pm

FUDU wrote:
Taking the roids that he took in no way helped him with hand eye coordination, and most importantly, the hardest thing in sports to do, hit a curveball. just helped him hit it a little farther.


This is so beyond wrong I will have to make a more detailed reply, probably tomorrow.

Steroids not only significantly increases bat speed but curve balls go farther than fast balls. Steroids is a HUGE advantage.

I will do my best to put up my response within the next 48 hours.


yeah not that i think about it, I think your right. bat speed will defenitely help in hitting the ball...bad post by me
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:20 am

sandlot, don't fall into that trap. The big fact you are ignoring is that Bonds COULD ALREADY DO what you mention. Look, steroids don't make Lead Pipe a major league hitter, but it certainly helps those with the skills already.

As for proof they work, it's right in front of your eyes.
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Unread postby Guest » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:03 am

Bonds is a cheating piece of shit.
He is not the best player ever.
Let's move on.
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Unread postby sal09 » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:16 am

I'm confused by the whole IF stuff with Bonds. There is no question about, no benefit of the doubt to be given. He admitted, under oath, in the BALCO trial that he HAS taken steroids. Claiming that you didn't know they were steroids aside, there is no debate. If we are blackballing McGuire why the hell would we celebrate a known cheater? Maybe he didn't take them his whole career but who cares, he took them. He's tainted and celebrating his phony accomplishment is a farce.
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Unread postby FUDU » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:43 pm

I cannot stand Bonds by any means but I do afford him his rights by giving him some BOD until he is proven guilty.

I personally think he did roids, no doubt, but until it is proven in court I will always say allegedly.
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Unread postby sal09 » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:47 pm

I agree Fudu. Innocent until proven guilty. But Bonds testified that he used the cream given to his trainer by Balco. The cream is/was an undetectable steroid. I.E. Bonds has used steroids. No room for doubt, no other questions to ask in his defense. He has admitted it.
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Unread postby He Gone » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:30 pm

I think Albert Pujols might have a shot at it too, dont forget about him.

Guy is only 27 or something crazy like that.

JUst cause he hasnt startted hot like Arod this year, hes still probably gonna end up with at least 650 in his career barring major injuries.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:25 pm

Until proven? The guy's cap size has increased two sizes since 1990.
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Unread postby sandlot33 » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:15 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:sandlot, don't fall into that trap. The big fact you are ignoring is that Bonds COULD ALREADY DO what you mention. Look, steroids don't make Lead Pipe a major league hitter, but it certainly helps those with the skills already.

As for proof they work, it's right in front of your eyes.


I'm pretty sure what he took wasn't even considered a steroid at the time, but i have no clue what he took, I just know he has always been a phenominal hitter. I still hate the guy
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Unread postby Hoover » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:37 am

Lead Pipe wrote:Until proven? The guy's cap size has increased two sizes since 1990.


With no apparent increase in intelligence. It's a medical miracle!
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Unread postby swerb » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:25 pm

Gun to my head, you ask me to take the over or under 800 career HRs for ARod, and I'm taking the over.

Like LeBron, he's got that big strong athletic body type that seems to reject injuries. Hes been healthy pretty much his whole career. And he wants to be loved so badly ... I could see him riding it out to 41-42 years old and destroying whatever # Barry ends at.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:43 pm

Like LeBron, he's got that big strong athletic body type that seems to reject injuries


Hell no, you did not just type that.
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Unread postby swerb » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:44 pm

Dude, did you see LeBrons ankle Sunday afternoon? How does he stay in the game after that? Looked nasty ...
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