Text Size

Cleveland Indians & MLB

Lineup

Talk Tribe, talk baseball in this forum.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau

Lineup

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:49 am

Anyone think it makes more sense to hit Nixon in the 5 hole onve Victor is back? Wouldn't he offer a little more protection for Pronk/Vic than even Garko, based on reputation?

Grady
Peralta
Pronk
Vic
Nixon
Garko
Delucci
Marte
Barfield

An added benefit would be splitting up the lefties better.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby jfiling » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:01 am

Where's Blake? Gotta have Blake in there.
jfiling
Old School Writer
 
Posts: 3874
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:14 pm
Location: Akron, Ohio
Favorite Player: Silky Johnston
Least Favorite Player: Buck Nasty

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:07 am

Where's Blake? Gotta have Blake in there.


Buffalo. Akron. Bench. Any of the 3 work for me.

Honestly, Blake serves as the "super" utility guy and just takes the spot in the order for whoever he is playing for that day.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby neoleo » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:16 am

Moving Peralta up in the lineup sacares me. We all remember how he responded to the pressure last season, plus he's an atrocious bunter. Although Nixon isn't exactly the text book definition of a number two hitter, at least he's a lefty that can simply pull the ball on the ground to advance the base runner.
User avatar
neoleo
CSU Beat Guy
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Cleveland, OH
Favorite Player: Norris Cole
Least Favorite Player: number 6

Unread postby swerb » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:19 am

NEOLeo wrote:Moving Peralta up in the lineup sacares me. We all remember how he responded to the pressure last season, plus he's an atrocious bunter. Although Nixon isn't exactly the text book definition of a number two hitter, at least he's a lefty that can simply pull the ball on the ground to advance the base runner.

Leo, welcome to the forums. And you took the words out of my mouth on Honny.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17919
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:30 am

Jhonny like fastball.

Fastballs very prevelant between Grady and Pronk.

Forget last year. Jhonny seemed to handle the pressure of hitting 3rd 2 years ago just fine.

When is the last time we bunted?
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby neoleo » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:57 am

Good point on the fastballs Pup. I can't tell you the last time we succesfully bunted, but the last time we tried was in our first loss to the Sox in Chicago when Peralta completey screwed the attempt (and the potentially go ahead inning) up.
User avatar
neoleo
CSU Beat Guy
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Cleveland, OH
Favorite Player: Norris Cole
Least Favorite Player: number 6

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:02 am

Jhonny's not a 2-hitter. Nixon is, in that he works counts and is patient.

If anything, what you maybe want to consider is moving Honny back to third in the lineup or move him to 5th behind Victor.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby swerb » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:32 am

NEOLeo wrote:Good point on the fastballs Pup. I can't tell you the last time we succesfully bunted, but the last time we tried was in our first loss to the Sox in Chicago when Peralta completey screwed the attempt (and the potentially go ahead inning) up.

I heard Wedge on the one of the pre or post game shows very early in the season saying that the Indians were at or above the league median in both bunts attempted and successful sacrifices last year.

That really surprised me when I heard it.
"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

http://www.twitter.com/theclevelandfan
User avatar
swerb
JoBu's bee-yotch
 
Posts: 17919
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Twinsburg, OH
Favorite Player: Mango Hab
Least Favorite Player: Bob LaMonte

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:50 am

Swerb wrote:I heard Wedge on the one of the pre or post game shows very early in the season saying that the Indians were at or above the league median in both bunts attempted and successful sacrifices last year.

That really surprised me when I heard it.


Yeah, they sort of were. I believe I mentioned it in one of my spring training pieces.

Indians had 30 successful bunts in 2006, and the league average was 33. High was KC with 52, low was Tampa with 16. FWIW, the Twins only had 31 successful bunts in 2006, one more than the Indians.

In 2005, the league average was 34 and the Indians had 39 sac bunts, Whit Sox led with 53.

In 2004, the Indians had 47 sac bunts and the league average was 39. White Sox led with 58.

So yeah, Indians on average the last three years have been at or above the league average. Based on some of the rants from fans, you'd think we were dead last in those categories. :mrgreen:
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Unread postby neoleo » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:09 am

Swerb wrote:
NEOLeo wrote:Good point on the fastballs Pup. I can't tell you the last time we succesfully bunted, but the last time we tried was in our first loss to the Sox in Chicago when Peralta completey screwed the attempt (and the potentially go ahead inning) up.

I heard Wedge on the one of the pre or post game shows very early in the season saying that the Indians were at or above the league median in both bunts attempted and successful sacrifices last year.

That really surprised me when I heard it.


As it does me. But for some reason I'm reminded of Tom Selleck's character in Mr. Baseball saying, "I led this club in 9th inning doubles in the month of August."

Or maybe a it's a bit closer to people stating that Z is one of the best centers in the NBA. Yes, he's good in today's game, but he's only one of the best centers left because there are exactly four guys over 7 feet tall in today's NBA that actually know a single post move.

If you're bad at something, and everybody else sucks at it too, that doesn't make you decent. Technically average maybe, but you still suck. We're not grading on a curve here Wedgie. Bottom line is, bunting is a lost art in the majors and the Inidans are a contributing factor.

With all of THAT being said, the Indians are a bad bunting team and Peralta is quite possibly the worst bunter on the squad.
User avatar
neoleo
CSU Beat Guy
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Cleveland, OH
Favorite Player: Norris Cole
Least Favorite Player: number 6

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:02 pm

Peralta may be a bad bunter, but he can handle that 3-spot when he's on. I think he will have a strong offensive season; his start supports that.

I'd personally like to see:

1. Sizemore
2. Nixon
3. Peralta
4. Hafner
5. Martinez (when healthy, of course)
6. Garko
7. Dellucci/Michaels
8. Barfield
9. Marte
Mr. MacPhisto
Troll
 
Posts: 3925
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Tampa, FL
Favorite Player: LeBron James
Least Favorite Player: A.J. Pierzynski

Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:30 pm

Your two hole hitter needs to be able to move runners without bunting. Bunting a guy from second to third in the first inning with your number 5 starter pitching and a left handed hitter up is about the worst god damn planned play in the game. wedge has done this in the past and it irks the hell out of me.
User avatar
leadpipe
The Reverend
 
Posts: 6617
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:58 am

Unread postby neoleo » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:56 pm

Lead Pipe wrote:Your two hole hitter needs to be able to move runners without bunting. Bunting a guy from second to third in the first inning with your number 5 starter pitching and a left handed hitter up is about the worst god damn planned play in the game. wedge has done this in the past and it irks the hell out of me.


I completely agree Lead Pipe. This is also the reason that I (and I presume others) don't want to see Peralta as the two hitter. If we agree that he's a bad bunter (which I'm sure we do), I think we can also agree that if Wedge isn't going to bunt in said situations (protecting you from the irking mentioned above), that it is easier for a left handed batter to get a ball to the right side of the infield than it is for a righty (that's without even mentioning who's better at "handling the bat").

Also, there are times when it is mandatory for your 2 hitter to get a bunt down, and at those times, I'd rather see just about anybody stepping to the plater over Peralta.

Macphisto, I would absolutely love to see Peralta earn his way back up into the 3 hole. Short of us finding a leadoff man so we can move Grady into his natural slot, I think Peralta/Hafner/Martinez is our best 3,4,5 combo.
User avatar
neoleo
CSU Beat Guy
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Cleveland, OH
Favorite Player: Norris Cole
Least Favorite Player: number 6

Unread postby pup » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:15 pm

Don't we want to "force" Peralta to hit middle back? Wouldn't this be an excellent way to do it? When he gets into trouble, he becomes pull happy. Putting him into a position where he is counted on to go to right field can only help the cause.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:55 pm

NEOLeo wrote:Macphisto, I would absolutely love to see Peralta earn his way back up into the 3 hole. Short of us finding a leadoff man so we can move Grady into his natural slot, I think Peralta/Hafner/Martinez is our best 3,4,5 combo.


His .879 OPS right now makes him alluring. Let's see if he can continue to do well.

I still think he has 20-HR potential there and his OBP is quite good. That would make three good OBP guys in front of Hafner. If there are guys on base in front of Hafner and Victor hitting behind him (and Martinez is also a good OBP guy) then you really have to pitch to Hafner. I think Garko also will prove himself to be a solid hitter who also sports a nice OBP. That could be a strong 1-6.
Mr. MacPhisto
Troll
 
Posts: 3925
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:39 pm
Location: Tampa, FL
Favorite Player: LeBron James
Least Favorite Player: A.J. Pierzynski

Unread postby He Gone » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:31 pm

Pup wrote:Jhonny like fastball.

Fastballs very prevelant between Grady and Pronk.

Forget last year. Jhonny seemed to handle the pressure of hitting 3rd 2 years ago just fine.

When is the last time we bunted?


Last time was vs the White Sox when Josh Barfield layed down a perfect sac bunt to move the runners from 1st and 2nd to 2nd and 3rd(even though we didnt get the runs in...
He Gone
O-H-I-O
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:58 pm

Unread postby neoleo » Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:50 pm

He Gone wrote:
Last time was vs the White Sox when Josh Barfield layed down a perfect sac bunt to move the runners from 1st and 2nd to 2nd and 3rd(even though we didnt get the runs in...


Ahh, how could I forget?
User avatar
neoleo
CSU Beat Guy
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Cleveland, OH
Favorite Player: Norris Cole
Least Favorite Player: number 6

Unread postby pup » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:02 am

Trot Nixon, 5 hole, interesting.

Now if Wedge would just listen to me on how to handle pitchers, we might be on to something.
Home Run Leaders as RHB 5/7/13

Mark Reynolds (10)
User avatar
pup
Closet Shapiro Fan
 
Posts: 12020
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:15 pm
Location: Eastlake, Ohio
Favorite Player: Vince Shubrownicek
Least Favorite Player: Any other coach

Unread postby consigliere » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:31 am

Pup for bench coach!
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis


Return to Cleveland Indians & MLB

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest