Official 2010 Tribe Trade Rumors

[peeker643]

Great- Because the last time the Indians dealt with the Phillies things worked out so well

SI_JonHeyman #indians, #phillies talking trade. westbrook, carmona possibilities
14 minutes ago via web

Who knows how much truth there is to these things.

[peeker643]

UUggghhhh..... picking up steam.

jaysonst Westbrook seems most likely #Indians P to move. But talked to exec who said he'll be "very surprised" if they don't deal Carmona. #trades

jaysonst Same exec said #Indians know Carmona's value is higher than ever & no sure bet to stay that high. So now's the time. #trades
8 minutes ago via web

[Bigfist]

Westbrook seems to be a no-brainer. He could fit in with a lot of teams, third or fourth starter type, expiring contract. But Carmona? Why? Makes no sense.

[1Perry]

Westbrook seems to be a no-brainer. He could fit in with a lot of teams, third or fourth starter type, expiring contract. But Carmona? Why? Makes no sense.

Well there you go. You answered your own question. On ESPN they are quoting a GM that is stating that the Indians have to move payroll again.

He notes that they likely won't give arms away like last year but most of us know better.

[r22weiss]

Not a Tribe Trade rumor but it is relevent to this thread. Roy Oswalt to the Phillies looks almost done.
http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/a ... p&c_id=mlb


Westbrook as a fall back should Oswalt not approve the trade?

Oh, if the indians need to move payroll, then why are they paying Jhonny's salery for the rest of the year? Last years trades were all about moving payroll. Not sure if that is going to happen this year, but who knows with the Indians.

[Cease]

Westbrook seems to be a no-brainer. He could fit in with a lot of teams, third or fourth starter type, expiring contract. But Carmona? Why? Makes no sense.

Maybe they have fallen head over heals for two rookies in two starts...

[TouchEmAllTime]

Can we Dominic Brown and Domingo Santana this time? They can have both Fausto and Jake.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

Damn. Only Fausto, Westbrook, Pronk, Assdribble, and Raffy Perez left from the 07 run. The cream of the crop.

[Eckersley]

If they're really in to moving payroll, I'm all for trading Choo to the Braves for 1-2 of their pitching prospects. The Tribe wouldn't save that much this year, but could save a lot in the near future as Choo is heading to arb. & Boras isn't into giving discounts.

1 of the Braves few weaknesses is in the OF. They don't want to go into the playoffs starting Melky Cabrera or Matt Diaz. Choo would make their lineup significantly better.

OTOH, the Braves have at least 3 pitching prospects who may be better than any prospect we currently have & they have nowhere to put them. If we could do a deal around at least 1 of Mike Minor, Randall Delgado or Julio Teheran, I think it would be a win-win for both clubs.

I haven't heard anything to this type of deal, but I think it makes sense for both teams.

[skatingtripods]

I haven't heard anything to this type of deal, but I think it makes sense for both teams.

Yep. Makes tons of sense to trade your best player just entering his arbitration years for a kid who may or may not make it.

Awesome idea.

[skatingtripods]

Rosenthal:

Source: Chances of #Indians trading Carmona "one in a million." Exploring value when teams call, do not expect to be satisfied w offer. #MLB
about 1 hour ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19833466470

[Eckersley]

I haven't heard anything to this type of deal, but I think it makes sense for both teams.

Yep. Makes tons of sense to trade your best player just entering his arbitration years for a kid who may or may not make it.

Awesome idea.

It doesn't make sense for most teams, but most teams are in much better financial shape than the Tribe.

Like it or not, Choo is a short timer in a Tribe uni. Don't know if he'll be traded this year or next, but he will be traded soon. I'd like to see him traded for pitchers who have FOR ability.

[skatingtripods]

It doesn't make sense for most teams, but most teams are in much better financial shape than the Tribe.

Like it or not, Choo is a short timer in a Tribe uni. Don't know if he'll be traded this year or next, but he will be traded soon. I'd like to see him traded for pitchers who have FOR ability.

Says who? Show me their track record of trading players who are eligible for arbitration.

Come on man. I know you hate the front office, but they have a record of locking up these guys. Yeah, they aren't all Boras clients, but Choo will probably be signed to a 3 or 4 year deal this offseason consistent with their business plan.

Boras doesn't care about going to arbitration. Boras cares about that first year of free agency.

[Sol Solis]

It doesn't make sense for most teams, but most teams are in much better financial shape than the Tribe.

Like it or not, Choo is a short timer in a Tribe uni. Don't know if he'll be traded this year or next, but he will be traded soon. I'd like to see him traded for pitchers who have FOR ability.

Says who? Show me their track record of trading players who are eligible for arbitration.

Come on man. I know you hate the front office, but they have a record of locking up these guys. Yeah, they aren't all Boras clients, but Choo will probably be signed to a 3 or 4 year deal this offseason consistent with their business plan.

Boras doesn't care about going to arbitration. Boras cares about that first year of free agency.

While I generally agree with you about them probably locking Choo up for a few more years, keep in mind that Choo is also not a young player. He's 28 already and in his prime. He got unlucky with how his contract situation has played out and this will likely be his one chance to get a huge payday, and with Boras as his agent I don't expect him to take a deal that isn't a vast sum of money.

[Eckersley]

Says who? Show me their track record of trading players who are eligible for arbitration.

Come on man. I know you hate the front office, but they have a record of locking up these guys. Yeah, they aren't all Boras clients, but Choo will probably be signed to a 3 or 4 year deal this offseason consistent with their business plan.

Business plan? From what I'm hearing, their business plan is to slash payroll every way possible. Trading an arbitration eligible Boras client fits that business plan.

Yes, I hate the front office, but that has no bearing on what I'm suggesting. I'd like to see Choo signed to a 3-4 year deal as you suggest, but I don't see it happening.

Boras is all about his clients raping their teams & never, ever giving a discount. Unless Antonetti is totally opposite of Shap, he'll sign no player unless that player gives a hometown discount. Discount is not in Boras' vocabulary.

[skatingtripods]

It doesn't make sense for most teams, but most teams are in much better financial shape than the Tribe.

Like it or not, Choo is a short timer in a Tribe uni. Don't know if he'll be traded this year or next, but he will be traded soon. I'd like to see him traded for pitchers who have FOR ability.

Says who? Show me their track record of trading players who are eligible for arbitration.

Come on man. I know you hate the front office, but they have a record of locking up these guys. Yeah, they aren't all Boras clients, but Choo will probably be signed to a 3 or 4 year deal this offseason consistent with their business plan.

Boras doesn't care about going to arbitration. Boras cares about that first year of free agency.

While I generally agree with you about them probably locking Choo up for a few more years, keep in mind that Choo is also not a young player. He's 28 already and in his prime. He got unlucky with how his contract situation has played out and this will likely be his one chance to get a huge payday, and with Boras as his agent I don't expect him to take a deal that isn't a vast sum of money.

The Indians hold all of the bargaining power. They just allow an arbitrator decide Choo's fate if they can't find a 3-year deal that Boras likes.

Either way, Choo's definitely here for the next three years. After that, all bets are off and he probably goes to a bigger market. But the Indians aren't going to give up years where Choo is under their control, no questions asked.

[Bigfist]

But how much will an arbitrator give Choo? I am guessing...a bundle. And don't forget that the Indians haven't gone to arbitration with a player in about twenty years or so. What I see is the Indians attempting to lock Choo up this winter..if he says no, then look for him to be dealt.

[Eckersley]

The Indians hold all of the bargaining power. They just allow an arbitrator decide Choo's fate if they can't find a 3-year deal that Boras likes.

Either way, Choo's definitely here for the next three years. After that, all bets are off and he probably goes to a bigger market. But the Indians aren't going to give up years where Choo is under their control, no questions asked.

If Choo continues to play like he has the past few years, he's looking to make something like 6M, 12M & 18M if he goes to arb. the next 3 years. If the Tribe is as cash strapped as I believe they are, Choo will never see arb. more than once while in a Tribe uni.

He'll be gone before 2012 unless he gets injured. I'd bet on that.

[Erie Warrior]

Why not deal Choo? He's gone, they won't pay him when he goes to arb anyway. It's no different than trading CY winners for AA'ers. Same damn thing. If another team offers a good deal, take it.

No matter how good Choo is, he's surrounded by crap. Reality is the Indians will never be competitive until several of these prospects turn out to be good, at the same time. In order for that to happen, they will collect as many blue chippers as possible.

And if this happens, they will be good for 2 years, and then those players will be shipped off for more AA'ers.

[skatingtripods]

If Choo continues to play like he has the past few years, he's looking to make something like 6M, 12M & 18M if he goes to arb. the next 3 years. If the Tribe is as cash strapped as I believe they are, Choo will never see arb. more than once while in a Tribe uni.

He'll be gone before 2012 unless he gets injured. I'd bet on that.

Now I know you're batshit crazy. Ryan Howard asked for $18M from an arbitrator. Ryan Howard. Shin-Soo Choo is no Ryan Howard.

The highest money in an arby hearing prior to Howard was Andruw Jones getting 8.2M, and that was coming off a year of 36 HR, 104 RBI, and a .303 average. Plus a Gold Glove.

If Choo gets anything above 6.5M in arbitration in any of his years, I'd be completely shocked. He's probably in line for somewhere around 3M this year, if I had to guess. So the Tribe gives him a 3 year 12M deal and Boras signs off on it. Then they go to FA.

He could be traded in the last year of that above deal if we aren't in contention, but I would expect the Tribe to be contending then.

[Eckersley]

If Choo continues to play like he has the past few years, he's looking to make something like 6M, 12M & 18M if he goes to arb. the next 3 years. If the Tribe is as cash strapped as I believe they are, Choo will never see arb. more than once while in a Tribe uni.

He'll be gone before 2012 unless he gets injured. I'd bet on that.

Now I know you're batshit crazy. Ryan Howard asked for $18M from an arbitrator. Ryan Howard. Shin-Soo Choo is no Ryan Howard.

I suggest you do some homework. Howard asked for 18M in his 1st year of arbitration eligibility. The Phils offered 14M.

Players who perform well get huge raises in arb. from their 1st-2nd & 2nd-3rd year of being arb. eligible. If Howard asked for 18M in his 1st year, I look for Choo to ask for 6M minimum.

I'm not saying it's impossible for the Tribe to sign Choo to a 3 year deal this winter, but I think it's going to take an offer of approx 36M to get it done. 3 years/12M is laughable. This is Choo we're talking about, not Dave Dellucci.

If Dolan couldn't/wouldn't pay 9M for a Cy Young winner, I don't see him paying approx 12M per year for Choo.

[skatingtripods]

I suggest you do some homework. Howard asked for 18M in his 1st year of arbitration eligibility. The Phils offered 14M.

It doesn't matter what year of arbitration he asked for it. When Shin-Soo Choo has the ability to hit 40 HR and drive in 120, maybe your 12M and 18M figures in your previous post will have merit. Until that point, they don't.

Players who perform well get huge raises in arb. from their 1st-2nd & 2nd-3rd year of being arb. eligible. If Howard asked for 18M in his 1st year, I look for Choo to ask for 6M minimum.

Choo's going to be close to .300 with maybe 20 HR and maybe 80 RBI. You seriously think he asks for 6M? It could happen, but I don't see it.

I'm not saying it's impossible for the Tribe to sign Choo to a 3 year deal this winter, but I think it's going to take an offer of approx 36M to get it done. If Dolan couldn't/wouldn't pay 9M for a Cy Young winner, I don't see him paying 12M per year for Choo.

Alright, I don't expect this, but let's say hypothetically that the Indians offer Choo a deal similar to what Markakis got. 6 years 66.1M. He got paid 3.35M in his first year of arbitration eligibility. It jumped all the way to 7.1M in his second year. Markakis and Choo have very similar stat lines.

Markakis's deal is incredibly backloaded. Buying out his arbitration years cost 3 years 20+M. If the Indians offer Choo 3 years, 24M, with something like 5M, 8M, 11M, I'd have to expect Boras to take that. Choo certainly wouldn't do better than that in arbitration. And if he goes year to year and takes his chances, he has a pretty decent injury history. They would sacrifice the arbitration potential to get a payday.

[Eckersley]

Well, you're making some headway. You went from 3 years/12M to 3 years/24M in less than an hour.

I don't think Boras will agree to 3 years/24M & I don't think Dolan will offer that much. Time will tell.

[dazindiansfanuk]

As a comp.... Nick Markakis - similar player to Choo at the time - asked for $5m in his first year of arb (counter of $2.9m from the O's)..... he signed an extension to avoid arb in the end.

[WiscTribeFan]

Markakis's deal is incredibly backloaded. Buying out his arbitration years cost 3 years 20+M. If the Indians offer Choo 3 years, 24M, with something like 5M, 8M, 11M, I'd have to expect Boras to take that. Choo certainly wouldn't do better than that in arbitration. And if he goes year to year and takes his chances, he has a pretty decent injury history. They would sacrifice the arbitration potential to get a payday.

This type of deal would be pretty much right on the money. Even Boras would have to advise Choo to take $24M guaranteed money to buy out his arbitration years. He's a solid player, but he's not at an elite status yet.

I could see it more along the lines of 3-$18M or $20M.

[WiscTribeFan]

Well, you're making some headway. You went from 3 years/12M to 3 years/24M in less than an hour.

Seems like you haven't. You still think Ryan Howard is a comp. for Choo. He's not.

[Eckersley]

Just for talking, let's do the math...Hafner, Grady & Fausto stand to make 26.6M next year. I expect the 2011 payroll to be in the 40-45M range.

Hafner & Grady are untradeable. Unless Fausto is traded soon, I don't see any room for a Choo extension. Let's say he gets 5M in arb. That brings the total to 31.6M for 4 players & leaves somewhere around 10-12M total for the remaining 21 players.

Something's gotta give. That's why I think they're actively shopping Fausto. If they can't get what they want, I expect that Fausto &/or Choo will be traded over the winter.

[Eckersley]

Well, you're making some headway. You went from 3 years/12M to 3 years/24M in less than an hour.

Seems like you haven't. You still think Ryan Howard is a comp. for Choo. He's not.

Never said anything remotely close to that.

Again, Howard asked for 18M in his 1st year. If Choo continues to put up numbers, I can see him asking for 6,12 & 18. That's nowhere close to a comp for Howard.

Howard signed for 3 years/54M to avoid arb. You actually think Boras agrees to 3 years/18-20M when Howard got 54M? Don't see it happening.

[1Perry]

I'll be extremely surprised if Choo is still an Indian come Sept 2011.

[Bigfist]

I hate to even bring this up, but what is the deal with Choo and his military service? South Korea has not forgiven him from serving, have they?

[pup]

I'll be extremely surprised if Choo is still an Indian come Sept 11.

Fixed it.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

If Choo continues to play like he has the past few years, he's looking to make something like 6M, 12M & 18M if he goes to arb. the next 3 years. If the Tribe is as cash strapped as I believe they are, Choo will never see arb. more than once while in a Tribe uni.

He'll be gone before 2012 unless he gets injured. I'd bet on that.

Now I know you're batshit crazy. Ryan Howard asked for $18M from an arbitrator. Ryan Howard. Shin-Soo Choo is no Ryan Howard.

You're right, Choo's better.

[Commodore Perry]

This really is a depressing thread.

Basically the Indians can't keep any superstars on the team for more then 3-4 years. If you think Choo is gone when he hits arbitration what about Santana?

This is why the farm system is built around having lots of Jason Donalds. You can control them for a long time at a reasonable cost. Bring up guys like Choo and Santana and you only anger the fan base by having to trade them.

I'll hang on to the hope that Choo would rather take the gauranteed money now, rather then risk an injury or drop off during his arbitration years.

If I were the Indians, any contract I sent over would contain a picture of Hafner's right shoulder.

[skatingtripods]

Well, you're making some headway. You went from 3 years/12M to 3 years/24M in less than an hour.

I don't think Boras will agree to 3 years/24M & I don't think Dolan will offer that much. Time will tell.

Where did I ever say anything about 3 years 12M?

Boras would be stupid not to. Choo doesn't get 24M over three years in arbitration.

[Eckersley]

This really is a depressing thread.

Basically the Indians can't keep any superstars on the team for more then 3-4 years. If you think Choo is gone when he hits arbitration what about Santana?

Good question. I think there may be a few things in the Tribe's favor in regards to Santana...

1) Boras isn't his agent
2) by the time Santana is eligible for arb., Hafner's contract is off the books
3) a new (& hopefully better for small market teams) CBA will be in place

[Eckersley]

Well, you're making some headway. You went from 3 years/12M to 3 years/24M in less than an hour.

I don't think Boras will agree to 3 years/24M & I don't think Dolan will offer that much. Time will tell.

Where did I ever say anything about 3 years 12M?

here...
He's probably in line for somewhere around 3M this year, if I had to guess. So the Tribe gives him a 3 year 12M deal and Boras signs off on it. Then they go to FA.

[skatingtripods]

Markakis's deal is incredibly backloaded. Buying out his arbitration years cost 3 years 20+M. If the Indians offer Choo 3 years, 24M, with something like 5M, 8M, 11M, I'd have to expect Boras to take that. Choo certainly wouldn't do better than that in arbitration. And if he goes year to year and takes his chances, he has a pretty decent injury history. They would sacrifice the arbitration potential to get a payday.

This type of deal would be pretty much right on the money. Even Boras would have to advise Choo to take $24M guaranteed money to buy out his arbitration years. He's a solid player, but he's not at an elite status yet.

I could see it more along the lines of 3-$18M or $20M.

Appreciate the backup, Wisc. I can't see Boras settling for less than what Markakis got, though.

Either way, if the Indians offer anywhere from 6-8M per year on average, you have to assume that Boras takes it.

My guess is that the only snag will be that the Indians will try their damndest to buy out at least one or two years of free agency.

Keep in mind, with Westbrook and Wood off the books, it'll cost about 10M per year combined to lock up Asdrubal and Choo for the next two years. Asdrubal they can probably get with a five or six year deal a la Sizemore because of his age. I'd say something like 5/30 for Asdrubal starting at 2M, maybe escalating to 4, 6, 8, 10, with an option year tacked on.

Either way, I have no doubts that they lock up Choo for 3 years and lock up Asdrubal for 4-6 years this offseason once Westbrook and Wood are off the books.

[skatingtripods]

Well, you're making some headway. You went from 3 years/12M to 3 years/24M in less than an hour.

I don't think Boras will agree to 3 years/24M & I don't think Dolan will offer that much. Time will tell.

Where did I ever say anything about 3 years 12M?

here...
He's probably in line for somewhere around 3M this year, if I had to guess. So the Tribe gives him a 3 year 12M deal and Boras signs off on it. Then they go to FA.

Didn't go back far enough in this thread. My apologies.


I'm thinking I meant 3 years at 21M and just typed them in the wrong order.

[Eckersley]

No apology necessary.

Let's go with your numbers & say the Tribe offers 3 years/21M. That's less than 40% of what Howard signed for at the same time in his career.

As Tribe fans, we'd like to see that happen. My question is, what makes you think Boras would go for that?

[skatingtripods]

No apology necessary.

Let's go with your numbers & say the Tribe offers 3 years/21M. That's less than 40% of what Howard signed for at the same time in his career.

As Tribe fans, we'd like to see that happen. My question is, what makes you think Boras would go for that?

I don't see why you're using Ryan Howard as a comp of Shin-Soo Choo. Outside of the obvious fact that they play separate positions, they're nothing alike. Choo will hit for a higher average, but Howard will always crush him in HR, RBI, and SLG.

What is an arbiter's criteria for determining value? That's the question if you want to compare those two.

But, we've already given you a much closer comp. Nick Markakis. Markakis had arbitration bought out for 3 years 20.5M or so. Why would you expect Choo to get substantially more than that?

Markakis's first three seasons: .291, .300, .306 with 16, 23, 20 HR.
Choo's first three seasons (I'll leave out '06 and '07): .309, .300, .297 with 14, 20, and maybe 20 HR.

Higher OBP might mean a bit of a raise, but under what circumstances will Choo get significantly more? Just because Boras is his agent? An arbiter may give Choo 16 or 17M, as much as 20M total over 3 years. If the Indians offer 21-24M, it makes a lot of sense for Boras to take.

[WiscTribeFan]

I like Choo, don't get me wrong, but if Howard put up Choo's numbers, he'd kill himself. Choo isn't an elite talent, so continuing to compare him to one really isn't useful, even with Howard having somewhat of an off year this year. Howard could stop playing today and Choo would be lucky to hit his numbers.

Howard's averaged nearly 50 dingers and 140 RBI a season for the last 4 years. Choo's a good player on a really bad team. Hitting .290/20/85 isn't going to get you $10+M at an arbitration hearing.

[The DiaTriber]

Action picking up on Jake with the Cardinals perhaps in the lead...

According to Buster Olney of ESPN.com the Indians are "getting significant hits on Jake Westbrook."

Olney speculates that the Cardinals could be a good fit and Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post Dispatch quickly chimed in to agree that St. Louis makes sense as a destination for the veteran right-hander.

Westbrook missed all of last season following Tommy John elbow surgery, but has picked up right where he left off as a solid mid-rotation starter with a 4.65 ERA in 21 starts, including a 4.30 mark in his last 15 outings. If the Indians are willing to eat some of his remaining salary, the impending free agent could be a decent fall-back plan for contenders.

http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/19931317866
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/rumor-indians-getting-significant-hits-on-jake-westbrook.php

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I like Choo, don't get me wrong, but if Howard put up Choo's numbers, he'd kill himself. Choo isn't an elite talent, so continuing to compare him to one really isn't useful, even with Howard having somewhat of an off year this year. Howard could stop playing today and Choo would be lucky to hit his numbers.

Howard's averaged nearly 50 dingers and 140 RBI a season for the last 4 years. Choo's a good player on a really bad team. Hitting .290/20/85 isn't going to get you $10+M at an arbitration hearing.

Over the past 3 seasons Choo has been a better player.

[TouchEmAllTime]

I like Choo, don't get me wrong, but if Howard put up Choo's numbers, he'd kill himself. Choo isn't an elite talent, so continuing to compare him to one really isn't useful, even with Howard having somewhat of an off year this year. Howard could stop playing today and Choo would be lucky to hit his numbers.

Howard's averaged nearly 50 dingers and 140 RBI a season for the last 4 years. Choo's a good player on a really bad team. Hitting .290/20/85 isn't going to get you $10+M at an arbitration hearing.

Over the past 3 seasons Choo has been a better player.

I'll take two of what you're having.

[Bigfist]

I like Choo, don't get me wrong, but if Howard put up Choo's numbers, he'd kill himself. Choo isn't an elite talent, so continuing to compare him to one really isn't useful, even with Howard having somewhat of an off year this year. Howard could stop playing today and Choo would be lucky to hit his numbers.

Howard's averaged nearly 50 dingers and 140 RBI a season for the last 4 years. Choo's a good player on a really bad team. Hitting .290/20/85 isn't going to get you $10+M at an arbitration hearing.

Over the past 3 seasons Choo has been a better player.

Care to elaborate?

[peeker643]

I wouldn't elaborate if I had said it. If it came out of my mouth I'd look increduously at my 9 yr old daughter and say, "Honey, you know nothing about baseball and you shouldn't say things that are ridiculously untrue or the man that burns little girls beds while they sleep is coming over."

You're liable to read pretty much anything on these boards.



And at least five of these:

[leadpipe]

I like Choo, don't get me wrong, but if Howard put up Choo's numbers, he'd kill himself. Choo isn't an elite talent, so continuing to compare him to one really isn't useful, even with Howard having somewhat of an off year this year. Howard could stop playing today and Choo would be lucky to hit his numbers.

Howard's averaged nearly 50 dingers and 140 RBI a season for the last 4 years. Choo's a good player on a really bad team. Hitting .290/20/85 isn't going to get you $10+M at an arbitration hearing.

Over the past 3 seasons Choo has been a better player.

On a board teaming with stupid sentences, this might be your blue ribbon.

[CP]

So instead of tribe trade rumors the entire thread is how Choo compares with others in arbitration?

[skatingtripods]

Further Westbrook to STL discussion:

The Cardinals are targeting Jake Westbrook, rival teams tell ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark. The Cards are no longer pursuing Aaron Cook or Livan Hernandez, since they’re focused on the Indians right-hander. However, Stark hears that there’s just a 50% chance of a trade.

The Indians don’t want to absorb salary in a deal, but Westbrook will make about $4MM between now and the end of the season. He also obtains a $2MM bonus if the Indians trade him.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/c ... brook.html

[leadpipe]

So instead of tribe trade rumors the entire thread is how Choo compares with others in arbitration?

Actually it's how he doesn't compare.

To the point, my practice - reading what I find valuable and skimming what I view as nonsense has served me well.