Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau
by consigliere » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:45 pm
by pup » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:21 pm
by swerb » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:19 pm
by pup » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:23 am
by consigliere » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:36 am
by pup » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:47 am
by pup » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:49 am
by consigliere » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:27 am
Pup wrote:Perry from Fox:http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6392576Ranks him 13th. I would say that is about middle of the pack, no?
by pup » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:58 am
Both think of Shapiro highly. Plus, you stated you disagreed he'd be a hot GM candidate this offseason. I was merely stating a case he would be. Who cares what competition is out there against him....he'd likely have been the #1 or #2 GM candidate available, which is what you said he wouldn't be.
Shapiro’s a good GM, and his ranking is a reflection of the strength at the top of the list. It’s a much narrower gap between, say, one and 13 than there is between 13 and 26, for instance. Re-signing him is certainly the right move for the Indians. I think he’ll be considerably higher on that list in the coming years.
by consigliere » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:19 am
Pup wrote:This is where I disagree. I disagree with a few positions on Perry's list but that is a different story. Is he a good GM? Why? For every good move he has made, I would guess I could argue a bad move to put right next to it. For every Grady, there is a Vazquez.
by pup » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:58 am
But, of course, don't pretty much all Gm's not named Scheurholtz (sp) have this problem?
The reason Shapiro is held so highly is how much of a good realtionship he has with others in the business
And, you have to give Shapiro credit for what he has built
He also has been extremely loyal to Wedge in the past, which was another fault...but the loyalty is not as strong as it once was and Wedge would indeed be fired now if the team was healthy but struggled early on.
by leadpipe » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:23 pm
by consigliere » Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:29 pm
by pup » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:43 pm
I don't think there is any other GM who can do a better job working under the limitations Shapiro works under from a finanical standpoint.
by gumby30 » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:52 pm
by pup » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:16 am
I agree that terry ryan is a good gm but you have to give shapiro is respect. He can only do so much with this budget. He built this team into a contender again!!
by gumby30 » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:30 am
by consigliere » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:47 am
by pup » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:14 am
you know thats not the way this team is going to go. They are not going to spend all kinds of paper on one guy. You seem to forget that its a business for the dolan family not just a sports team. They are here to make money too.
If you can sign a Carlos Lee for one year at $10-15M, that is one thing. But it is the YEARS that make it difficult. Having someone on the roster like Lee making $15M three years from now makes it even harder to resign our own.
I'm on record with that, and feel everything they have done with keeping payroll flexible and not signing mega contract FAs is so they can have the financial means to extend those guys. If the Indians are not able to keep any of the three, I'll go through the roof....and if they only keep one (it will be Hafner for sure) I still will be disappointed. My ideal hope is they keep Hafner and Sabathia.....and to me there is no excuse for them not giving them their market value and keeping them. They are top players at their position.
by consigliere » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:47 am
Pup wrote:Hogwash. You can argue about how much knowledge Forbes may or may not have about actual figures, but they have continually said the Indians are the most profitable team in the league. You think they are making this up to spite the Dolans?
Who? They are spending money they are spending anyway. If anything, 3 years from now, this team will be made up of young guys making min salaries. They will lose the Byrds, Borowskis, Nixons and Michaels.
The only players they will be ginving raises to in the time of Lee's contract will be CC, Pronk and Westy. Let's say they keep CC for market value.CC - 18 millionMiller - Arby, minimumSowers - Arby, minimumCarmona - Arby, minimumLofgren, Lewis - Arby, minimum2006 rotation will be about 17 million.2012 rotation will be maybe maybe 22 million.
The whole team in 5 years will be young and inexpensive, outside of CC, Pronk, Grady and Victor (who is on his last contract with the Tribe if they keep Pronk). You are telling me that Carlos Lee is going to keep them from signing one of those?
So you are confident they will get something done with CC? I would love to know your reasoning....
by pup » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:09 am
You seem to be of the mind they dump everyone and go with prospects again. I am not. I think they will mix in prospects from here on out and let some people walk, but they will resign most of their talent. When I say most, I am predicting 2 of every 3 guys, maybe half.
Most of the deals some of the guys signed are backloaded.
True, those guys are gone. But, in just two years players like Lee, Sizemore, Peralta, and Victor will be making $12-15M more in total than they are now. You HAVE to consider that going into 2009, which is the first year of a Sabathia/Hafner extension:
by consigliere » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:32 am
by pup » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:33 pm
Return to Cleveland Indians & MLB
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests