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Signing Westy and C.C. and Pronk

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Signing Westy and C.C. and Pronk

Unread postby bookelly » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:42 am

I'm starting to be less and less interested in keeping both C.C. and Westy with long term contracts. The way Miller, Carmona, and Lofgren are pitching I'm wondering if we really need them. Of course C.C. is a superstar (soon) and who wouldn't like to keep him. But if Byrd and Westy leave, Miller and Carmona might be better.

My point - if we lose these guys we can recover. The infield + Grady + Crowe? + Sipp = contention until 2112...if we sign Pronk!
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:07 am

My point - if we lose these guys we can recover. The infield + Grady + Crowe? + Sipp = contention until 2112...if we sign Pronk!


If Pronk is willing to accept the fact that he is a DH and should be paid accordingly, then go ahead and keep him. But if he requires you to bust open the Dolan vault, and it means you will lose CC, no way.

If you are going to build the future (and present for that matter) around starting pitching, you will never justify to me allowing a 27 year old left hander who throws 99 MPH in the 9th inning to get away, especially to keep a DH.

My worry now is with the Indians deciding to let Travis play some first base this year, are they pricing themselves out in resigning him? Not to mention the fact that this is a guy who has been unable to stay healthy, already has a bad elbow, and now they are going to risk our second best offensive player by putting him in the field? Just another one of those things that makes me shake my head occasionaly at this organization.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:08 am

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Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:05 pm

Someone is going to throw a ridiculous contract at C.C. Christ, who knows what the numbers will be. Barry Zito, a total hump like Gil Meche - an injury prone hump at that. I don't think they will re-sign him no matter what happens with anyone else on the team.

And, I agree with Pup's above statement.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:08 pm

Someone is going to throw a ridiculous contract at C.C.


That is why you have to get it done, today! Take the 5 mil you had for Foulke add it to whatever you were offering and get the thing signed. If they say they are uncomfortable with the length of the contract that CC wants, then we might as well pack it in.
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Unread postby swerb » Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:14 pm

CC is not going to sign an extension here before he's able to hit the open market. It's just not going to happen.

Every time he's asked about it, he says he would like to stay here, and that he's open to signing an extension this spring ... but it's not realistic.

I don't have the link handy, but there was a column run a week or so after Zito signed, and Lilly and Meche ... two career hacks, got megabucks. CC was dowright giddy.

If the Indians want to extend him this spring, Zito money would be the starting point. And the team is not going to do that.

Bottom line ... CC hits the open market, and he's going to get offers of close to 20 million a season. And he'll be pitching elsewhere in 2009. It's just not realistic to think otherwise.

I do believe the team is resigned to this fact, and will indeed extend Hafner, maybe even in the next month ... before he starts playing 1b this year, which opens the bidding to 30 teams from 14 when he comes due.

Westbrook .... only way he is here next year is if one of the following happens:

1. He gets hurt or has a bad year
2. Two of Carmona, Sowers, Miller implode, get hurt, etc

Westbrook, assuming he has another year like the last couple, will get 15-16 million per in this market. Especially from a team with strong infield defense. The Indians are not going to give him that much money.
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Unread postby FUDU » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:47 pm

Of course C.C. is a superstar (soon) and who wouldn't like to keep him.


That's news.

The day C.C. becomes a superstar IS the day the Tribe wins a WS, that is of course if C.C. decides to get his head out of his ass and become said superstar while wearing a Tribe uni.

Until then he is not a superstar and has quite a ways to go to be one in reality.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:06 am

The day C.C. becomes a superstar IS the day the Tribe wins a WS, that is of course if C.C. decides to get his head out of his ass and become said superstar while wearing a Tribe uni.

Until then he is not a superstar and has quite a ways to go to be one in reality.


25 years old, 2 time all star, 3 straight season top 10 hits/IP, 3 top 6 k's/IP, led the AL in complete games and shutouts in 2006, twice top 10 in ERA, including 3rd in '06, 30 starts per year.

You are right, this guy is no star. If only he could make up 15 games in the standings all by himself.
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Unread postby docstank » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:10 am

Is that a man crush I detect? :mrgreen:
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Unread postby pup » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:22 am

Easy Doc...

I just don't understand what people expect out of him sometimes.
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Unread postby docstank » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:26 am

Pup, I could not agree with you more, I just thought it was a nice opportunity to take a little jab. Especially since I had nothing intelligent to add to the convo.
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:45 pm

25 years old, 2 time all star, 3 straight season top 10 hits/IP, 3 top 6 k's/IP, led the AL in complete games and shutouts in 2006, twice top 10 in ERA, including 3rd in '06, 30 starts per year.


Superstar pitchers dominate with consistency.

Their bad games are respectable performances and usually as good as an average starters performances. They get rocked once a year, and their funk periods are 2 starts to 14-16 days.

C.C. dominates on occasion, gets rocked a handful of times a year, and is very streaky...a good three weeks a bad three weeks.

Superstars are no question number 1 starters, C.C. is not unquestionably a number 1.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:18 pm

I would take it a step further. A superstar is more than a number one starter. Clemens, Maddux, Santana, Carlton, Seaver, guys like this are superstars.

No matter how we classify him, one thing is certain, he will be paid like a superstar, but it won't be by the Tribe.
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Unread postby sandlot33 » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:14 pm

Clemens, Maddux, Santana, Carlton, Seaver

so we are talking about guys that come around what a couple times a decade. Of course he is not as good as those guys, but CC can flat out pitch, and should be signed long term by the Tribe, but I'm not getting my hopes up

how many guys would you rather have as your ace???? I could think of maybe 4 or 5 and thats it

and who really cares if he's fat
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