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by consigliere » Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:36 pm
by DGeneral » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:45 pm
by British_Pharaoh » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:16 am
DGeneral wrote:A-Rod to the Indians is a pipe dream. Dolan will never absorb any part of his contract. Hafner, CC, Westbrook aren't going to get paid by Dolan, A-Rod or any SuperStar talent will never get paid by Dolan.Reports like that are pretty baseless.
by bookelly » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:50 am
by consigliere » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:21 am
bookelly wrote:If they can afford A-Rod. Then they can afford C.C. and Pronk. As attendance grows this year, so will payroll. I'd say up to $90-100 million by 2009. That should be enough to sign two of the three core guys about to hit the market.
by pup » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:04 am
Payroll will never get that high.
by consigliere » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:33 am
Pup wrote:Payroll will never get that high. Yes it will. Only problem is when they get that high, the rest of baseball will be at $130million. Prices will continue to rise, it is the way of the world.Once the Dolan's get back to even from the rape job Jacobs did to them, there will be more money to spend.
by leadpipe » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:55 pm
by DGeneral » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:34 pm
Consigliere wrote: Unless they start selling out or averaging 35K a night, which is never happening again.
by consigliere » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:25 pm
DGeneral wrote:If an owner puts a competitive team on the field that has a reasonable chance to win a WS title, 35K per night is very possible. This town is starved for a winner. The astute owner that delivers it will win the rabid fans business.
You couldn't get tickets from 94 to 01 because there was such a high demand. Saying that fans will not support this team in droves just supports Dolan's not spending any money on quality veteran assets.
by DGeneral » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:32 pm
Consigliere wrote:Really? The team at the end of 2005 was about as much of a World Series threat as we have ever had. Yet, minus the season ending homestand with the White Sox, over their last 20-25 home games in Aug/Sept they averaged around 25-27K a night. In fact, the previous 9 games before that White Sox series about 4-5 of them only had 20-21K a night.
Consigliere wrote:If the Indians get on another run, none of that is happening again. For most fans, it is a "been there and done that" mentality with regard to the excitement with a potential playoff team. It no longer is as exciting as it was for many since we just experienced it 5-7 years ago. Also, Jacob's Field is entering its 14th season (wow) this year. The Browns are back. The Cavs are the hot ticket in town.
by consigliere » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:05 pm
DGeneral wrote:Dolan drove away 2 million fans after the gutting of payroll in 02. It is naive to think that fans, particularly casual fans, will flock to the stadium and pack the house during a 6 week hot streak in late August -September. Those fans have been turned off for years, you don't turn on a switch and bring them back once the team starts winning.
If Dolan would have delivered on what he promised and spent when the time was right over the 06 off season, the team would have competed last year and the fans would have come back at near sellout levels.
It took a while to pack the house in 95 when the Indians caught on as a real WS competitor. It will take a while for the fans to catch on to the Indians being competitive again.
Win and prove to the fans you have a good team, they will come. 455 didn't happen by accident. It's a testament to one of the best fanbases in the world.
by swerb » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:08 pm
by consigliere » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:22 pm
by sandlot33 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:18 am
by leadpipe » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:54 am
by consigliere » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:55 am
sandlot33 wrote:If you build it, they WILL come
by swerb » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:05 am
Consigliere wrote:sandlot33 wrote:If you build it, they WILL comeJust a question....how is this current version of the Indians THAT much different from say the 1994 Indians? Those teams had a few more offensive stars, but of course this rotation destroys that 1994 version. People flocked to the stadium then, but aren't now. Gee, wonder why?
by consigliere » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:12 am
by Dozen » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:30 pm
by DGeneral » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:43 pm
Consigliere wrote:Yes, Dolan pissed a lot of fans off. And, that apathy ain't going away. People have drawn their line in the sand with him, whether right or wrong.But, it WAS a complete joke that the Indians had arguably the best team in baseball, in the thick of the greatest pennant race this town has ever seen and arguably the two most exciting months of baseball we have ever witnessed in the regular season.....and there was barely a spike in attendance. The fans aren't coming back dude.
by sandlot33 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:11 pm
by Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:33 am
by DGeneral » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:20 am
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:If you build it, they will come?Sincerely,The Atlanta BravesSeriously though. After 2005, I have to agree with Consig. The Tribe's the third hottest ticket in town, and no amount of wins is going to put them over Lebron and the Browns. The '90's are over, and the best the Tribe can aim for now is to compete like the A's and Twins.
by Jumbo » Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:34 am
by leadpipe » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:25 am
by DGeneral » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:03 am
Lead Pipe wrote:Get a consistent good product, then gripe about attendance.
by consigliere » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:59 pm
Lead Pipe wrote:In my opinion the Indians and Dolan have a bit of a fractured way of thinking. This whole "if you fill the seats we'll spend more money" deal. That's not the way it works. People don't routinely buy crappy products in hopes that the producer will take the customers money and improve future products. This is especially true at the start of "the plan".Again, this type of miscalculation might have been forced by the poor business deal Dolan made, but it's not my fault. I shouldn't be played for a fool. Get a consistent good product, then gripe about attendance.
by sandlot33 » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:10 am
by leadpipe » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:30 am
Consigliere wrote:Lead Pipe wrote:In my opinion the Indians and Dolan have a bit of a fractured way of thinking. This whole "if you fill the seats we'll spend more money" deal. That's not the way it works. People don't routinely buy crappy products in hopes that the producer will take the customers money and improve future products. This is especially true at the start of "the plan".Again, this type of miscalculation might have been forced by the poor business deal Dolan made, but it's not my fault. I shouldn't be played for a fool. Get a consistent good product, then gripe about attendance.Of course, the fans filled the seats for Jacob's before he went out and spent gobs of cash. DEAD LAST in MLB in payroll in 1992, and as attendance increased in the final year at the Muni in 1993 and the spike in 1994, payroll went up.This is what makes me laugh out loud....tis mentality that Dolan should spend first and the fans will come and that Dick Jacob's is some folk hero.....
by Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:27 am
DGeneral wrote:You are justifying Dolan funding a continuous low payroll and blaming the fans for not supporting his crappy product.Dolan loves you.
The truth is that if any owner, like the astute Jacobs, delivers a bonifide WS contender, The supportive fans of NE will pack the house.
This is proven. I reject the lame excuses of a "depressed economy", pure rubbish.
The same hunger for a title resides in NE Ohio baseball fans as it does with die hard Browns fans. A six week flash in the pan good product will not get the attention of the casual fans that Dolan needs to pack his house.
Dolan needs to supply a legit WS contender product. If that happened, he would surely win the fans business at high attendance levels.
by DGeneral » Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:34 am
Madre Hill, Superstar wrote: No, I'm explaining why Dolan funds a relatively low payroll and why that's the fault of the inequities of the baseball market. Please try to keep up.By the way, if Dolan loves me, then Steinbrenner loves fans like you.
Just like they did when the team got hot at the end of 2005. Errrr-
Its not a "depressed economy", its simple market economics. This is Cleveland. We are, and always have been - regardless of what Bud Selig and the mediots might say - a small market. In a free agent non-salary cap environment, we're Geraci's Bi-Rite up against the Wal-Mart Yankees. Jacobs' "astuteness" consisted of building a team that got hot just as the Browns left town, which allowed him to sell off the team to Dolan at an inflated cost. If you think that somehow that perfect storm is going to hit town again, I'm sure there's a position for you where ever Jane Campbell is working at these days.
Funny that you mention the Browns. There's a team unarguably sucking worse than the Tribe, and yet somehow Joe Clevelandfan has no problem with packing CBS every Sunday. Hell, the Tribe has been to more World Championships in the past forty years, and yet they still can't outdraw the Browns!
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