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Shapiro extension looms

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Shapiro extension looms

Unread postby consigliere » Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:30 pm

THis would be a great move to lock him up.

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Re: Shapiro extension looms

Unread postby DGeneral » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:14 pm

THis would be a great move to lock him up.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindea ... xml&coll=2


It would be a great move for Dolan to reward Shapiro for implementing his plan to recoup losses incurred on the purchase of the team. Shapiro has done absolutely everything Dolan has asked of him. He gutted the bloated 01 payroll. He sold off expensive assets and continues to do so as needed to keep costs down.

Shapiro has assembled a nice core of young players at a low cost. He's been creative in surfing the infirmiries for once fronline talent with surgically repaired limbs. Shapiro is adept with his diamondview software to find a stable of bottomfeeders every year. This is a new paradigm for penurious ownerships.

He's been successful in keeping that payroll at rock bottom level so Dolan can maximize profit. There is now a critical mass of gate revenue that will support the chronic mediocre product Dolan percieves as adequate for his customers.

Shapiro is also one of the best spin doctors in mlb. After baseball, he has a bright future working for the DNC. Shapiro has earned an extention from his owner. His performance is beyond reproach in meeting his bosses objectives.
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Re: Shapiro extension looms

Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:39 pm

Consigliere wrote:THis would be a great move to lock him up.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindea ... xml&coll=2


Shouldn't a great move make a negligible difference? Look, some people like him some don't. At this point he's o.k at best, and the General is correct in stating the fact Shapiro has played by Dolan's rules. Point being, if you replace Shapiro with your run of the mill gm it doesn't change a thing. I could inderstand if they were trying to lock up Beane. Shapiro, not so much.

By the way General, you forgot to mention the Keith Foulke signing. That one someone will need to explain to me.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:09 am

Shapiro is viewed of much more highly than just as a run-of-the-mill GM. I know some of the moves he makes are questionable, but so are a lot of GMs, even the good ones make some mistakes. I have it on pretty good authority that Shapiro is one of the most widely respected GMs in the game, and also considered one of the top GMs in the league (somewhere in the Top 10 or very close to it). If he were fired or let go, he wouldn't be out of a job for long.

THe biggest problem with Shapiro is his loyalty to Wedge. That is his downfall. As far as evaluating young talent goes, he does a very good job. And, since he can't be a player in obtaining marque FAs, he does a pretty good job of identifying the players that slip through the cracks. Terry Ryan is a master at this, and is something Shapiro will need to get better with. Hopefully this offseason he took steps in that right direction.
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Unread postby DGeneral » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:06 am

Shapiro is viewed of much more highly than just as a run-of-the-mill GM. I know some of the moves he makes are questionable, but so are a lot of GMs, even the good ones make some mistakes. I have it on pretty good authority that Shapiro is one of the most widely respected GMs in the game, and also considered one of the top GMs in the league (somewhere in the Top 10 or very close to it). If he were fired or let go, he wouldn't be out of a job for long.



IF Shapiro is the frontline GM that you claim he is. Why would he continue to accept being strapped with this ownerships poverty based operating methods? If he can find employment elsewhere and is better than Epstein, why would he want to work for Dolan when he could go to a large market and get the budget to win a title?

His next career move would be out of Cleveland for advancement. He is not leaving because his record isn't good enough to be employed elsewhere. Shapiro does not have a strong baseball background. He surrounds himself with mba degrees with limited baseball knowledge. Surfing diamondview instead of relying on seasoned scouts is the missing link in his organization.

Shapiro has not made the playoffs in 5 years. If he didn't have the budget to get there, then he should leave. Staying with a sinking ship just tells me that's about as good as it gets for him.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:52 am

DGeneral wrote:IF Shapiro is the frontline GM that you claim he is. Why would he continue to accept being strapped with this ownerships poverty based operating methods? If he can find employment elsewhere and is better than Epstein, why would he want to work for Dolan when he could go to a large market and get the budget to win a title?


Ask this same question to the Terry Ryan and Billy Beane, guys who are in the Top 5.
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Unread postby pup » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:21 am

Ask this same question to the Terry Ryan and Billy Beane, guys who are in the Top 5.



Billy Beane sucks donkey balls, but that was not the question, just an opinion of mine.

They are where they are for multiple reasons. Beane is an egomaniac, who makes Shapiro appear humble. He enjoys winning a putrid division and making the play-offs with the low budget, and then hearing his name. The difference between he and Mark...Billy's team make the play-offs.

Terry Ryan is a brilliant baseball man, but is not in it to win a World Series with a huge budget in a marquee city. He is a Twin for life, because he would rather be anonymous for a good team than on the front page somewhere else.

The key to both is they have each won, and made the play-offs. There is no reason to leave because you can't win with your budget, if you are winning.
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Unread postby DGeneral » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:03 pm

Ask this same question to the Terry Ryan and Billy Beane, guys who are in the Top 5.


The Twins and Oakland are not poverty stricken like the Dolan Indians are. They face financial challenges but have a payroll a magnitude above the Indians.

You could also say these GM's patched together a number of playoff teams on a "lower" budget. Why hasn't Shapiro delivered in the past 5 years? He's obviously not in the same league.

Shapiro's stock dropped like a rock last year. Every move he made was horrible. A complete reversal from the 05 performance. His biggest mistake is his devotion to Wedge. Why he keeps that turkey in the dugout defies imagination.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:08 pm

DGeneral wrote:The Twins and Oakland are not poverty stricken like the Dolan Indians are. They face financial challenges but have a payroll a magnitude above the Indians.


You are being intellectually dishonest here. "Magnitude" above? You do realize the Twins payroll in 2006 was $63M and the A's was $62M....and the Indians was $56M. Were they above the Indians? Yes. Significantly? No.

Also, the Indians will be above the Twins in payroll this year. Possibly the As.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:02 pm

Shapiro knows he's in a great situstion as long as he keeps the boss happy. If he makes the playoffs he's a genius in doing it with limited salary. If he doesn't make the playoffs its because of the obstacles presented him because of limited salary. There are several small/midmarket teams in Cleveland's shoes. At the end of the day it's about making decisions. Beane ain't breaking camp with Jason Johnson and Ramon Vasquez on his major league roster.
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Unread postby DGeneral » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:09 am

You are being intellectually dishonest here. "Magnitude" above? You do realize the Twins payroll in 2006 was $63M and the A's was $62M....and the Indians was $56M. Were they above the Indians? Yes. Significantly? No.



12.5% above is what I call a magnitude, I didn't say it was significant. It's the difference between having a mediocre journeyman and a everyday clutch player. About The difference in annual salary between Tyrd and Millwood.

I might have been fudging a little to make my point but the point still stands. The direct competition of Dolan is spending more.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:29 am

DGeneral wrote:I might have been fudging a little to make my point but the point still stands. The direct competition of Dolan is spending more.


I'll agree the comp spent more in the past, but not anymore.
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