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Who do we trade at the deadline?

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Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Pufferbelly » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:43 pm

Obviously we dont have the pitching or hitting so season over. So lets talk about Shapiros favorite part of being a GM....RESTOCKING THE FARM SYSTEM!!!!

Shoppach
Martinez
DeRosa
Wood?
WHO ELSE.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Chris » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:02 pm

I was about to make this thread.

I have no idea who they will trade but I expect at least 1 big time Tribe player to be traded for good prospects.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby consigliere » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:24 pm

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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Bayou Tribe » Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:09 pm

Melt


Down
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby jordan kramer » Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:52 pm

yeah there no way we can come back with only 159 games left. Dolan mine as well sell the team or move it somewhere else. :hide:

sheesh we haven't even played one game at the Jake yet and everyone's panties are in a massive bunch...
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Chris » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:06 pm

jordan kramer wrote:yeah there no way we can come back with only 159 games left. Dolan mine as well sell the team or move it somewhere else. :hide:

sheesh we haven't even played one game at the Jake yet and everyone's panties are in a massive bunch...


Our starting rotation looks like a joke, let's be real.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby jb » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:07 pm

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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Chris » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:08 pm

We might as well start t alking about it. With no pitching, we arent going anywhere.

Think we can get a real major league pitcher like Roy Halladay via trade? Wait, that'd be a move to make if we're "in contention".
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby The Brook » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:24 pm

Before I give up on our rotation, I would like to see
A) each pitcher for atleast 5 starts (except maybe Pavano haha)
B) them pitch against a mediocre or bad, instead of great lineup
C) them pitch in a fair pitchers ballpark

I truely can't believe people are ready to crucify our entire pitching rotation when
A) they haven't even all pitched
B) they have been pitching in the worst ballpark for a pitcher, against one of the top 3 lineups in baseball.

Lastly after seeing Pavano pitch in Spring Training I didn't expect anything out of him, other than a handful of starts before we could bring one of the young guys up. I didn't except him to be this bad. But oh well if he sucks, we have young cheaper guys ready to replace him.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby jordan kramer » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:29 pm

Chris wrote:We might as well start t alking about it. With no pitching, we arent going anywhere.

Think we can get a real major league pitcher like Roy Halladay via trade? Wait, that'd be a move to make if we're "in contention".

dude, its April 9th. we are 2 games out of 1st place. take a deep breath
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby The Brook » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:39 pm

Even if you somehow could see the future and knew we had no shot at the playoffs around the trade deadline it would still be too early to figure who we could deal at the deadline.
If Wood has a 9.00 ERA with zero saves, noone will be trying to trade for him.
I mean Ben Francisco & Shoppach & Hafner are on pace to hit 54 HR's this season, so if they keeps up this pace everyone will be trying to trade for them.
If Derosa keeps up his .000 batting average I can't see one team trying to deal for him.

In other words, its way too early to be talking about deadline deals.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Bigfist » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:44 pm

I think (and this is not shocking news..most of us, including Shapiro felt this way) that the season would hinge on starting pitching. I still expect much more out of Lee and Fausto and expect that each will win about 15 games and be fairly effective. On the other hand, I had and have no faith in Pavano. Having said that, I do think he deserves several more starts to see if he has anything left in the tank. If he is the Jason Johnson of 2009, then he won't be here past mid-May. I have absolutely no idea what to expect out of Reyes and S. Lewis. Again, there is depth in Columbus, but Laffey and Sowers don't exactly inspire a lot of confidence.

I think the team will score a sufficient number of runs in most cases and if given the lead after 6, I think the bullpen will hold the lead more often than not. Starting pitching is the key to the season.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby The Brook » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:53 pm

Just curious, if Lee, Carmona & Pavano had all come out and pitched great games, would people think they are going to pitch great games for the rest of the season?? Or is just when they pitch bad people think they are going to pitch that way for the rest of the season?

Just incase people didn't know this, when you look at a list of most pitchers starts for a season there are some great games and horrible games. I don't think I've ever seen a starter have the same line for every start of the season, but maybe the Indians will have 3 pitchers do it this season and you will all be soothsayers.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Chris » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:07 pm

The Brook wrote:Just curious, if Lee, Carmona & Pavano had all come out and pitched great games, would people think they are going to pitch great games for the rest of the season?? Or is just when they pitch bad people think they are going to pitch that way for the rest of the season?

Just incase people didn't know this, when you look at a list of most pitchers starts for a season there are some great games and horrible games. I don't think I've ever seen a starter have the same line for every start of the season, but maybe the Indians will have 3 pitchers do it this season and you will all be soothsayers.


No but we'd have been encouraged. SO far, the pitching has shown nothing positive or encouraging so why should any posts reflect optimism/encouragement?
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby The Brook » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:32 pm

Chris wrote:
The Brook wrote:Just curious, if Lee, Carmona & Pavano had all come out and pitched great games, would people think they are going to pitch great games for the rest of the season?? Or is just when they pitch bad people think they are going to pitch that way for the rest of the season?

Just incase people didn't know this, when you look at a list of most pitchers starts for a season there are some great games and horrible games. I don't think I've ever seen a starter have the same line for every start of the season, but maybe the Indians will have 3 pitchers do it this season and you will all be soothsayers.


No but we'd have been encouraged. SO far, the pitching has shown nothing positive or encouraging so why should any posts reflect optimism/encouragement?


I don't think anyone should be encouraged, I'm personally discouraged. However, I think someone people are taking it too far and its pretty obvious. Its one thing to not be encouraged, its another thing to think the season is automatically over after 3 games.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Bigfist » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:33 pm

Well, if Lee and Fausto each go out and throw stinkers for their first 4-5 starts, then I think it will be time to worry. I fully do not expect that to happen..I think each will be good (although not great) and will pitch far more good games than bad. Could I be wrong? Sure. Could Lee turn into the 2007 Lee and Fausto pitch like the 2008 Fausto? Sure, but I do no expect either of those to happen. As I said above, I don't think Pavano will be around long (although I hope I am wrong), and have no idea what Reyes and Lewis will do.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby jameseboy » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:17 pm

All I ever hoped for from Pavano was eating innings...till possible.... Lee was an unkown, the 2007 or the 2008 Lee but not looking good..Carmona I had hopes for and still do we will see...but it was always about the pitching and so far thats not good. Trade bait is catching, outfield, and dh (Garko} The need as it was all winter is pitching..we can hope for Jake and Huff but we would still need at least one more viable starter if what has happened up to now continues. The good news is Pavano is a one year deal so he can win or fade away to be replaced by Jake. Come on Reyes and Lewis make things better.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby DrPoove » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:35 pm

IT'S THREE (EXPLETIVE DELETED) GAMES PEOPLE!!!

:wha?:
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby tribefan333 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:54 am

Yeah...the season is obviously over in mid April....yeah.... :dead:

Everybody knows you have to win the first series of the season with only 159 games left to make the playoffs.

My question: Why wait until the trade deadline? Let's get these losers out of here now! Hopefully the game is rained out tomorrow so Shapiro has an extra day to get physicals done and such.

Ok so first we trade LaPorta for Branyon, David Huff for Casey Blake and Sizemore for Brandon Philips, then we....

Good Lord people. 3 games...3. Fausto was a let down after his spring, but Lee has never pitched well in Texas and Pavano is still a huge wild card. And oh by the way, Texas' lineup is filthy lethal (not sure those two words should be together, but oh well). And in case no one noticed, Grady hit two HR's today, Hafner turned on a ball - albeit 84 mph, I think - and the offense scored 8 runs.

Love the game, love the ride of the season, and stop freaking out. Every damn year it seems like their's one or two groups of people calling it a season if the team doesn't start out 15-2.

Remember what happened? Indians winning a thriller against Chicago in the opener...remember that? Because I remember what happened after that game...

159 games left...
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:16 pm

DrPoove wrote:IT'S THREE (EXPLETIVE DELETED) GAMES PEOPLE!!!

:wha?:


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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby jameseboy » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:55 pm

ok so its three games so what...if at some point you have not gone oh oh its gonna be a long season you have to be brain dead. Nope three games does not tell the tale but it makes folks think and if someone wants to think about what kind of trades to make if things dont right themeselves I see no reason to jump all over em for it. Oh yeah and Lee sucked in spring training as well so its more than three games.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby tribefan333 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:08 pm

jameseboy wrote:ok so its three games so what...if at some point you have not gone oh oh its gonna be a long season you have to be brain dead. Nope three games does not tell the tale but it makes folks think and if someone wants to think about what kind of trades to make if things dont right themeselves I see no reason to jump all over em for it. Oh yeah and Lee sucked in spring training as well so its more than three games.


I said "oh uh this is a bad start to the season."

I said this in another thread, but I think it serves well here too.

If you're willing to call Cleveland a lost-cause because of the 3 game start, are you also willing to call the O's and Blue Jays the best two teams in the AL East? Because right now, they are.

Would you call the Rangers and Marlins the best two teams in baseball? Because right now, they are.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:12 pm

I wish this thread would go to hell and die.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:18 pm

Whilst I think this thread is about as premature as a 16-year old virgin, it could have some merit in discussing a hyperthetical "who would we trade if we're not in contention at the break" conversation.

I don't see that being the case, but if it is then the Indians would have plenty of tradeable assets to influx even more talent into the system.

Personally, if all goes wrong I could see the following being dealt: -

Mark DeRosa (FA after season)
Cliff Lee (would he be worth his $9m option for 2010?)
Rafael Betancourt (another guy who's option for 2010 might be greater than his value)
Masa Kobayashi (not that they'd likely get any kind of return)
Jamey Carroll (if someone needs some depth down the stretch)
Victor Martinez - Vic is a long shot, but with the depth we have at catching it's possible. Someone would have to offer up some serious talent to force the Indians to trade their heart and soul.
Ryan Garko - more to allow the Indians to infuse someone of the ilk of LaPorta at 1B.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Noodle » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:57 pm

OK people, pull your head out of your a$$eS...calm down.

True, the pitching has been total crap, blame coaching for not getting these guys ready for the start of the season, what with their fretting over the last 1/2 a roster spot. Mathematically speaking, there is no way any of these guys can pitch every game like they did in Arlington. Even Pavano, who will have a decent game in a Tribe uniform before we cut him loose in mid-May.

The only game I attended where I saw Cliff Lee pitch was start against the Reds in Cincinnati where he got hammered last season. You remember that game, his first loss of the season? (which pushed his record to 5-1 at the time, I believe) Good thing he went 17-2 after that particular game and won the Cy Young, huh?

Maybe Cliffie goes on another 17-2 tear...maybe not. But he's not the pitcher he was on Opening Day.

Let's save the paranoia for next month. The ships isn't sinking at this point.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby jordan kramer » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:25 pm

let me be crystal clear. i'm not at all giving up on this season 3 and a half games in, as some are, and in fact a will vehemently bash those who are. that being said i wouldn't mind us starting to trade some of our prospect depth for good young starting pitching. some guys i would like to see dealt for young starters would be:

Stephen Head, we got tons of depth first
Michael Aubrey, see above
Jordan Brown, see above
Wyatt Toregas, again lotta young depth at catcher
Matt McBride, see above
Ben Francisco, he's really just holding up a spot out there in LF

that's just what i would do. if we have this surplus of position player talent in the minors, and the Major League club can't pitch, that sounds like the smartest thing to do. for me the only untouchables in the minors are LaPorta, Brantly, Santana, Mills, Hodges, Valbuena, Weglarz, and Huff
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:30 pm

jordan kramer wrote:that's just what i would do. if we have this surplus of position player talent in the minors, and the Major League club can't pitch, that sounds like the smartest thing to do. for me the only untouchables in the minors are LaPorta, Brantly, Santana, Mills, Hodges, Valbuena, Weglarz, and Huff


I'd agree with you on those untouchables with the exception of Mills.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on Mills or anything, it's just that I feel one of LaPorta or Weglarz is going to end up at 1B thus making Mills expendable.

Put it this way, Mills wouldn't get in the way (if I was GM) of acquiring a pitcher of the ilk of Peavy etc...... just my take though.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Chris » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:33 pm

Well said Daz. I know Peavy was just an example but a pitcher of that caliber is exactly what we need. Halladay is another, but he'd require a lot. I wouldn't be afraid to give up stuff for him though, you know what you're getting.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby rigs » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:05 pm

While the talk is premature, Consiglieres and others "its early" mantra is just as bad. Every year under Wedge...same crap.
0-4... if we start off 10-20, the season IS over. Already. Cavs...economy... good luck Dolan!
After April, someone needs to go if it ends up this way again.
Where on earth is there as much security as in this organization? It is a below average organization under Shapiro and Wedge, yet neither have ever been on the hot seat.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Chris » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:18 pm

RIGS wrote:While the talk is premature, Consiglieres and others "its early" mantra is just as bad. Every year under Wedge...same crap.
0-4... if we start off 10-20, the season IS over. Already. Cavs...economy... good luck Dolan!
After April, someone needs to go if it ends up this way again.
Where on earth is there as much security as in this organization? It is a below average organization under Shapiro and Wedge, yet neither have ever been on the hot seat.


I tend to agree.

I take back every word of my defense of the Tribe in the Cavs forum, honestly. At the same time I just dont get why thus team blows so bad.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby go_tribe » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:38 am

Chris wrote:
RIGS wrote:While the talk is premature, Consiglieres and others "its early" mantra is just as bad. Every year under Wedge...same crap.
0-4... if we start off 10-20, the season IS over. Already. Cavs...economy... good luck Dolan!
After April, someone needs to go if it ends up this way again.
Where on earth is there as much security as in this organization? It is a below average organization under Shapiro and Wedge, yet neither have ever been on the hot seat.


I tend to agree.

I take back every word of my defense of the Tribe in the Cavs forum, honestly. At the same time I just dont get why thus team blows so bad.


Man, I wish you would go back to the cavs board and just stay there. After 4 games, I have seen nothing but idiotic panic and bashing from you. Sure, there are others that have been the same way, but you are leading the charge. I'm gonna hold you to all this shit when we turn it around.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Chris » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:53 am

go_tribe wrote:
Chris wrote:
RIGS wrote:While the talk is premature, Consiglieres and others "its early" mantra is just as bad. Every year under Wedge...same crap.
0-4... if we start off 10-20, the season IS over. Already. Cavs...economy... good luck Dolan!
After April, someone needs to go if it ends up this way again.
Where on earth is there as much security as in this organization? It is a below average organization under Shapiro and Wedge, yet neither have ever been on the hot seat.


I tend to agree.

I take back every word of my defense of the Tribe in the Cavs forum, honestly. At the same time I just dont get why thus team blows so bad.


Man, I wish you would go back to the cavs board and just stay there. After 4 games, I have seen nothing but idiotic panic and bashing from you. Sure, there are others that have been the same way, but you are leading the charge. I'm gonna hold you to all this shit when we turn it around.


You act like I've said something untrue. All I've done is tell you our bullpen blows, Ben Francisco blows, we are striking out too much, and the rotation blows. Those are all facts. So far, anyways. It's only 4 games...right? We can only comment on what we see so far, brotha, so what you see is what you get for now. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. No amount of "It's only [Insert #] games!" mantra is going to turn things around. How fun would these forums be if everyone just repeated that same line after every game until they realized it had actually been 3/4 of a season and we were 16 games out? Right, these wouldn't be "forums". it'd be more like a cesspit of denial.

Unlike certain other individuals, I refuse to put blame on Eric Wedge, Mark Shapiro, and Dolan (for the most part, anyways) so ease up off my ass a little bit. I will criticize these stiffs until they come out of the funk (if they do), because they deserve it, and it's all they've shown us to this point. Don't defend them.

These guys are major league ball players. We should expect better than this. And I'm not even talking about the offense. It's the pitching. The name of the game: pitching. Have you seen much worse, honestly?

Lastly, I harbor no ill will and I fully encourage you to rub it in my face if the Indians turn it around and suddenly win 90+ games. Or even 80+ games, at this point. I don't see it with this pitching staff but I am a fan of the Cleveland Indians and will gladly eat my words without complaint.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby pup » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:26 am

Chris wrote:
go_tribe wrote:
Chris wrote:
RIGS wrote:While the talk is premature, Consiglieres and others "its early" mantra is just as bad. Every year under Wedge...same crap.
0-4... if we start off 10-20, the season IS over. Already. Cavs...economy... good luck Dolan!
After April, someone needs to go if it ends up this way again.
Where on earth is there as much security as in this organization? It is a below average organization under Shapiro and Wedge, yet neither have ever been on the hot seat.


I tend to agree.

I take back every word of my defense of the Tribe in the Cavs forum, honestly. At the same time I just dont get why thus team blows so bad.


Man, I wish you would go back to the cavs board and just stay there. After 4 games, I have seen nothing but idiotic panic and bashing from you. Sure, there are others that have been the same way, but you are leading the charge. I'm gonna hold you to all this shit when we turn it around.


You act like I've said something untrue. All I've done is tell you our bullpen blows, Ben Francisco blows, we are striking out too much, and the rotation blows. Those are all facts. So far, anyways. It's only 4 games...right? We can only comment on what we see so far, brotha, so what you see is what you get for now. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. No amount of "It's only [Insert #] games!" mantra is going to turn things around. How fun would these forums be if everyone just repeated that same line after every game until they realized it had actually been 3/4 of a season and we were 16 games out? Right, these wouldn't be "forums". it'd be more like a cesspit of denial.

Unlike certain other individuals, I refuse to put blame on Eric Wedge, Mark Shapiro, and Dolan (for the most part, anyways) so ease up off my ass a little bit. I will criticize these stiffs until they come out of the funk (if they do), because they deserve it, and it's all they've shown us to this point. Don't defend them.

These guys are major league ball players. We should expect better than this. And I'm not even talking about the offense. It's the pitching. The name of the game: pitching. Have you seen much worse, honestly?

Lastly, I harbor no ill will and I fully encourage you to rub it in my face if the Indians turn it around and suddenly win 90+ games. Or even 80+ games, at this point. I don't see it with this pitching staff but I am a fan of the Cleveland Indians and will gladly eat my words without complaint.


How fun with these boards be if a few posters just came in and inserted "This team blows, these guys suck, I am not having any fun" bullshit into every thread?

Especially if they made of living out of the sky is falling bullshit in the Cavs forum, about 6 weeks before the Cavs essentially locked up the best record in the NBA?

It is simple. If watching these guys makes you this mad, and you are not having fun being a fan, what the fuck are you doing? When they piss me off, I watch something else. I don't continue to watch them and post the same drivel over and over again in a game thread about a team that sucks so bad. Never.

Seriously. Less Red Bull. Smoke a joint or something and relax.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Chris » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:29 am

Pup wrote:
Chris wrote:
go_tribe wrote:
Chris wrote:
RIGS wrote:While the talk is premature, Consiglieres and others "its early" mantra is just as bad. Every year under Wedge...same crap.
0-4... if we start off 10-20, the season IS over. Already. Cavs...economy... good luck Dolan!
After April, someone needs to go if it ends up this way again.
Where on earth is there as much security as in this organization? It is a below average organization under Shapiro and Wedge, yet neither have ever been on the hot seat.


I tend to agree.

I take back every word of my defense of the Tribe in the Cavs forum, honestly. At the same time I just dont get why thus team blows so bad.


Man, I wish you would go back to the cavs board and just stay there. After 4 games, I have seen nothing but idiotic panic and bashing from you. Sure, there are others that have been the same way, but you are leading the charge. I'm gonna hold you to all this shit when we turn it around.


You act like I've said something untrue. All I've done is tell you our bullpen blows, Ben Francisco blows, we are striking out too much, and the rotation blows. Those are all facts. So far, anyways. It's only 4 games...right? We can only comment on what we see so far, brotha, so what you see is what you get for now. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. No amount of "It's only [Insert #] games!" mantra is going to turn things around. How fun would these forums be if everyone just repeated that same line after every game until they realized it had actually been 3/4 of a season and we were 16 games out? Right, these wouldn't be "forums". it'd be more like a cesspit of denial.

Unlike certain other individuals, I refuse to put blame on Eric Wedge, Mark Shapiro, and Dolan (for the most part, anyways) so ease up off my ass a little bit. I will criticize these stiffs until they come out of the funk (if they do), because they deserve it, and it's all they've shown us to this point. Don't defend them.

These guys are major league ball players. We should expect better than this. And I'm not even talking about the offense. It's the pitching. The name of the game: pitching. Have you seen much worse, honestly?

Lastly, I harbor no ill will and I fully encourage you to rub it in my face if the Indians turn it around and suddenly win 90+ games. Or even 80+ games, at this point. I don't see it with this pitching staff but I am a fan of the Cleveland Indians and will gladly eat my words without complaint.


How fun with these boards be if a few posters just came in and inserted "This team blows, these guys suck, I am not having any fun" bullshit into every thread?

Especially if they made of living out of the sky is falling bullshit in the Cavs forum, about 6 weeks before the Cavs essentially locked up the best record in the NBA?

It is simple. If watching these guys makes you this mad, and you are not having fun being a fan, what the fuck are you doing? When they piss me off, I watch something else. I don't continue to watch them and post the same drivel over and over again in a game thread about a team that sucks so bad. Never.

Seriously. Less Red Bull. Smoke a joint or something and relax.


Preaching to the choir bro. I turned them off last night. It's a long season, and I don't think the season is over. I am just extremely concerned with the bullpen and rotation. Anyone would be. I'm also disappointed because I am a die hard baseball fan who grew up playing the game and I waited all offseason for this. But I'm sure you understand.

Cheers, we'll see what happens man.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby gotribe31 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:03 pm

Pup wrote:
Chris wrote:
go_tribe wrote:
Chris wrote:
RIGS wrote:While the talk is premature, Consiglieres and others "its early" mantra is just as bad. Every year under Wedge...same crap.
0-4... if we start off 10-20, the season IS over. Already. Cavs...economy... good luck Dolan!
After April, someone needs to go if it ends up this way again.
Where on earth is there as much security as in this organization? It is a below average organization under Shapiro and Wedge, yet neither have ever been on the hot seat.


I tend to agree.

I take back every word of my defense of the Tribe in the Cavs forum, honestly. At the same time I just dont get why thus team blows so bad.


Man, I wish you would go back to the cavs board and just stay there. After 4 games, I have seen nothing but idiotic panic and bashing from you. Sure, there are others that have been the same way, but you are leading the charge. I'm gonna hold you to all this shit when we turn it around.


You act like I've said something untrue. All I've done is tell you our bullpen blows, Ben Francisco blows, we are striking out too much, and the rotation blows. Those are all facts. So far, anyways. It's only 4 games...right? We can only comment on what we see so far, brotha, so what you see is what you get for now. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. No amount of "It's only [Insert #] games!" mantra is going to turn things around. How fun would these forums be if everyone just repeated that same line after every game until they realized it had actually been 3/4 of a season and we were 16 games out? Right, these wouldn't be "forums". it'd be more like a cesspit of denial.

Unlike certain other individuals, I refuse to put blame on Eric Wedge, Mark Shapiro, and Dolan (for the most part, anyways) so ease up off my ass a little bit. I will criticize these stiffs until they come out of the funk (if they do), because they deserve it, and it's all they've shown us to this point. Don't defend them.

These guys are major league ball players. We should expect better than this. And I'm not even talking about the offense. It's the pitching. The name of the game: pitching. Have you seen much worse, honestly?

Lastly, I harbor no ill will and I fully encourage you to rub it in my face if the Indians turn it around and suddenly win 90+ games. Or even 80+ games, at this point. I don't see it with this pitching staff but I am a fan of the Cleveland Indians and will gladly eat my words without complaint.


How fun with these boards be if a few posters just came in and inserted "This team blows, these guys suck, I am not having any fun" bullshit into every thread?

Especially if they made of living out of the sky is falling bullshit in the Cavs forum, about 6 weeks before the Cavs essentially locked up the best record in the NBA?

It is simple. If watching these guys makes you this mad, and you are not having fun being a fan, what the fuck are you doing? When they piss me off, I watch something else. I don't continue to watch them and post the same drivel over and over again in a game thread about a team that sucks so bad. Never.

Seriously. Less Red Bull. Smoke a joint or something and relax.



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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby jordan kramer » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:04 pm

Shapiro is one of the best GMs in Baseball and anybody in baseball, in any organization will tell you that. what he has done in a small market without a big boy payroll, to bolster our minor league system and with the young talent on the Major league team, needs to be recognized. anyone who bashes him on this board loses almost all credibility to me. Wedge on the other hand is another story. i'm not a Wedge hater, but i can see why many are, and if we are completely out of it by June i would have no problem seeing him gone
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Chris » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:06 pm

jordan kramer wrote:Shapiro is one of the best GMs in Baseball and anybody in baseball, in any organization will tell you that. what he has done in a small market without a big boy payroll, to bolster our minor league system and with the young talent on the Major league team, needs to be recognized. anyone who bashes him on this board loses almost all credibility to me. Wedge on the other hand is another story. i'm not a Wedge hater, but i can see why many are, and if we are completely out of it by June i would have no problem seeing him gone


I tend to agree. I like Shapiro a lot. He looks like an idiot right now but it isnt his fault DeRosa is a little leaguer so far this year and Kerry Wood can not even get a chance to close a gd game.

I am not a Wedge hater and I am not begging to see him gone but like you I would have little issue with it if this continues.
Chris
 

Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby rigs » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:45 pm

Jordan.

What exactly has he done? I am not saying he is good or bad, but he has taken the team to the playoffs in one of his eight years. No, not everyone in baseball will say he is one of the best GM's. Well, they probably would, cause they aren't going to publicly throw someone under the bus. He hasn't done much in terms of results.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:39 pm

RIGS wrote:What exactly has he done?

Built a perennial potential contender out of a franchise that is a far distant third wheel in a dying rust belt city?

What do I know, I just sit here and converse with the ghosts of Vern Stouffer and Ted Bonda wondering if anyone realizes just how good we have it now.
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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby jordan kramer » Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:18 pm

RIGS wrote:Jordan.

What exactly has he done?

he built a team that was a couple outs from the World Series in 07. i don't know how long you have followed Cleveland sports but thats no small task. he won executive of the year for that little number.

he's acquired through drafts and trades, all the young talent in the organization. do you know most teams would kill to have the farm system we have right now?

let me run down some of the players he has absolutely stole from teams: Grady, Choo, Pronk (people forget he was really good for a few years), Shop. not to mention the guys like Wood and DeRosa he signed this year.

i honestly don't get all the Shapiro bashers. i couldn't ask for a better GM. we are not the Yankees or Red Sox, we can't make it rain like they do every offseason. all he can do is get great value players and put them in position to succeed. its not his fault the reining Cy Young can't pitch to save his life right now
"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home."
"in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

"i'm going to pull your endocrine system out of your body" - Gary Busey
Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Who cares about this crap?

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Re: Who do we trade at the deadline?

Unread postby CDAV6 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:08 am

Patience people. While I am not writing this season off, we are going to be real good in the near future. Hell we could be real good yet this year. In 2 years max, Shapiro is going to be a god in the city of Cleveland. He has done a remarkable job loading the minors with talent that is close to seeing their way to the bigs with enough surplus to make some trades to solidify weaknesses.

Garko, Francisco, Crowe, and even Peralta/Cabrera(not both) could be traded and replaced from within. In AAA we have Weglarz, Head, Brown, Aubrey, Sowers, and Laffey to name a few. I understand that none of these players will bring an impact pitcher individually, but there is definately enough talent to put a couple of packages together. If Lofgren continues his comeback and is successful it could make Huff available for the right guy. Laffey could go to a team with a small park that needs a ground ball pitcher. I would love to know who is offering what right now because you know there have to be offers on the table.
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