Text Size

Cleveland Indians & MLB

Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Talk Tribe, talk baseball in this forum.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau

Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:14 pm

User avatar
dazindiansfanuk
Tyner Is God
 
Posts: 8995
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:21 am
Location: Cardiff, UK
Favorite Player: Jhonny Peralta
Least Favorite Player: Curt Schilling

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:19 pm

Andy Marte doesn't have more value to this organization than a guy who's going to pitch the 7th inning for the Clippers?

At least Shoppach panned out.
A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe
User avatar
skatingtripods
Sloth Duncan
 
Posts: 14352
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Cleveland
Favorite Player: Mike Aviles
Least Favorite Player: Every Detroit Tiger

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:19 pm

Does Salas round out the bullpen or just get thrown into the 7th man mix?

Maybe it's a sign of another move to come -who knows?!
User avatar
dazindiansfanuk
Tyner Is God
 
Posts: 8995
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:21 am
Location: Cardiff, UK
Favorite Player: Jhonny Peralta
Least Favorite Player: Curt Schilling

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby redneckofsc » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:21 pm

Damnit!

Russell Branyan, Brandon Phillips, Jeremy Guthrie, and now Andy Marte.

Why the hell not just drop David Dellucci.

And why do we want Salas? Didnt get get busted for roids anyways and isnt he still suspended?
"I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

"All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
User avatar
redneckofsc
The Ultimate Grinder
 
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: W/ Russell Branyan
Favorite Player: Wil Cordero
Least Favorite Player: Matt LaPorta

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:40 pm

redneckofsc wrote:Damnit!

Russell Branyan, Brandon Phillips, Jeremy Guthrie, and now Andy Marte.

Why the hell not just drop David Dellucci.

Because he's better than Andy Marte. Skid-doosh!
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby redneckofsc » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:44 pm

Because he's better than Andy Marte. Skid-doosh!


O wait. My mistake. I was thinking of Dellucci's actual numbers instead of his projected "Carlos Lee" numbers. So that makes since.
"I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

"All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
User avatar
redneckofsc
The Ultimate Grinder
 
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: W/ Russell Branyan
Favorite Player: Wil Cordero
Least Favorite Player: Matt LaPorta

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Toxicadam » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:51 pm

Skating Tripods wrote:Andy Marte doesn't have more value to this organization than a guy who's going to pitch the 7th inning for the Clippers?

At least Shoppach panned out.



We didn't trade Marte for Salas. Someone could still pick up Marte and then offer up a trade (most likely a Single A guy).
User avatar
Toxicadam
 
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:53 am

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:52 pm

redneckofsc wrote:
Because he's better than Andy Marte. Skid-doosh!


O wait. My mistake. I was thinking of Dellucci's actual numbers ...

Which are better than Andy Marte's.

They are merely pitiful, not otherwordly-bad.
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby redneckofsc » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:54 pm

He put up better numbers than Brandon Phillips did as an Indian.
"I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

"All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
User avatar
redneckofsc
The Ultimate Grinder
 
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: W/ Russell Branyan
Favorite Player: Wil Cordero
Least Favorite Player: Matt LaPorta

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby TitoFrancona » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:55 pm

Well, under normal circumstances I would say 1 (Marte) down 2 (Barfield, Dellucci) to go, but unfortunately it's still 3 to go since now you replace Marte's name with Salas who is basically a stiff. He won't be part of Cleveland's bullpen. That much is a guarantee. They have at least a half a dozen pitchers not on the 40 man that are better.

It's a move that makes no sense. Now if they just said that Marte was DFA'd, that would make far more sense imo.
TitoFrancona
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca
Favorite Player: Tito Francona
Least Favorite Player: Jim Thome

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby redneckofsc » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:59 pm

We didn't trade Marte for Salas. Someone could still pick up Marte and then offer up a trade (most likely a Single A guy).


It shouldnt be any less than Mike Moustakas.
"I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

"All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
User avatar
redneckofsc
The Ultimate Grinder
 
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: W/ Russell Branyan
Favorite Player: Wil Cordero
Least Favorite Player: Matt LaPorta

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby consigliere » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:08 pm

Interesting deal.

And Marte is not officially gone. If no one claims him, he will be outrighted to Columbus unless we flat out release him.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby MadThinker88 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:40 pm

On one hand I like the idea of getting Marte off the roster and getting him the chance to play everyday in the minors to see if he can pull himself together for one last shot in the bigs.

But the larger part of my being rejects this as we are slated to have Hodges at 3B in Columbus. Why take away at bats in Cbus for Hodges so Marte could get regular time??

Time to cut bait and move along......
MadThinker88
In Tressel We Trust
 
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:01 am

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby consigliere » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:43 pm

http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/

Thursday, February 19, 2009
Indians Trade Velasquez For Reliever
Posted by Tony at 4:09 PM

In a suprise move today, the Indians traded away 20-year old infielder Isaias Velasquez to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for 30-year old right-handed reliever Juan Salas.

Velasquez was signed almost four years ago by the Indians at 16 years of age out of Panama, and just this past season played at short-season Single-A Mahoning Valley where he hit .281 with 1 HR, 18 RBI and a .711 OPS in 64 games. Velasquez has yet to play on a full season team, though likely would have been the starting second baseman for Single-A Lake County this year. The void at second base at Lake County could create an interesting camp battle this spring and may ultimately open the door for Jason Smit to get the regular everyday job at second in Lake County. For Velasquez's complete scouting report, click here.

Salas had been designated for assignment by the Rays on February 13. He spent nearly the entire 2008 season with Trilpe-A Durham and went 4-5 with a 2.62 ERA and 1 save in 28 appearances (44.2 IP, 32 H, 13 R/ER, 11 BB, 53 K, .201 BAA) out of the bullpen. He also made five appearances (6.1 IP, 5 H, 5 R/ER, 4 BB, 8 K) with the Rays over twodifferent stints. Originally signed as a non-drafted free agent by the Devil Rays in 1998 as an infielder, Salas was converted to a relief pitcher in 2004 and owns a career Major League record of 1-1 with a 4.44 ERA (52.2 IP, 54 H, 31 R, 26ER, 24 BB, 42 K, .255 BAA) in 47 appearances. In 2007, he made 34 appearances with Tampa going 1-1 with a 3.72 ERA (36.1 IP, 36 H, 19 R, 15 ER, 17 BB, 26 K, .248 BAA). In 2006, Salas participated in the Future's Game for the World Team and was named to Baseball America's All-Minor League Team as well as awarded MiLB.com's Minor League Reliever of the Year. In his career at the Minor League level he is 13-7 with a 2.54 ERA and 20 saves (187.2 IP, 134 H, 66 R, 53 ER, 77 BB, 223 K) in 135 appearances.

To make room on the 40-man roster for Salas, the Indians designated infielder Andy Marte for assignment. The Indians now have ten days to trade, release or outright Marte to the minors. If he goes unclaimed (a claiming team would need to put him on their 40-man roster) or a trade is not worked out for him, then he likely will remain an Indian and be outrighted to Columbus.

More on the trade tonight on Smoke Signals (see below).
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby skatingtripods » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:48 pm

Toxicadam wrote:We didn't trade Marte for Salas. Someone could still pick up Marte and then offer up a trade (most likely a Single A guy).


Essentially we did by taking Marte off the 40-man to make room for this guy.
A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe
User avatar
skatingtripods
Sloth Duncan
 
Posts: 14352
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 12:27 pm
Location: Cleveland
Favorite Player: Mike Aviles
Least Favorite Player: Every Detroit Tiger

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:59 pm

Salas will join a crowded field for the final spot in Cleveland's bullpen.

"He's in the mix," Indians manager Eric Wedge. "He's got a live arm and he has an option left."


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3919539
User avatar
dazindiansfanuk
Tyner Is God
 
Posts: 8995
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:21 am
Location: Cardiff, UK
Favorite Player: Jhonny Peralta
Least Favorite Player: Curt Schilling

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby consigliere » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:05 pm

dazindiansfanuk wrote:
Salas will join a crowded field for the final spot in Cleveland's bullpen.

"He's in the mix," Indians manager Eric Wedge. "He's got a live arm and he has an option left."


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3919539


Salas to me is the perfect guy for a 7th bully spot. He could be okay filler, and his development years are behind him so you aren't worried about his rotting in the pen.
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby redneckofsc » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:05 pm

"He's in the mix," Indians manager Eric Wedge. "He's got a live arm and he has an option left."



So does that mean he is a grinder.
"I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

"All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
User avatar
redneckofsc
The Ultimate Grinder
 
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: W/ Russell Branyan
Favorite Player: Wil Cordero
Least Favorite Player: Matt LaPorta

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:10 pm

redneckofsc wrote:
"He's in the mix," Indians manager Eric Wedge. "He's got a live arm and he has an option left."



So does that mean he is a grinder.

As long as he's not Juan Rincon, Brendan Donnelly, Rick Bauer, Brian Sikorski, or Brian Slocum, I have to say there's still a silver lining available.
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby chitowntribephan » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:23 pm

Pure speculation here but this was Wedge's quote the other day according to Castrovince:

Wedge said, in general, he was happy with the shape guys reported in. But without naming names, he said, "There's always a couple that don't look quite how you want them to." Then he added sarcastically, "It's not like you have anything to get in shape for."

Last year they were pretty disappointed with Marte's shape when he came to camp. Given that we didn't hear anything about him looking any better this year and that he was sent out REALLY quickly, I'm putting two and two together and suggesting that Marte was at least one of the guys that Wedge was referring to in that quote.

I'm gonna go out on a big limb here and say that even if/when Marte clears waivers, we have probably seen the last of him in the Cleveland organization. Wes Hodges, you're the next contestant..
chitowntribephan
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:31 am
Location: Evanston, IL
Favorite Player: Joe Carter
Least Favorite Player: Rich Yett

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby dazindiansfanuk » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:30 pm

Consigliere wrote:
dazindiansfanuk wrote:
Salas will join a crowded field for the final spot in Cleveland's bullpen.

"He's in the mix," Indians manager Eric Wedge. "He's got a live arm and he has an option left."


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3919539


Salas to me is the perfect guy for a 7th bully spot. He could be okay filler, and his development years are behind him so you aren't worried about his rotting in the pen.


I agree, but also the same could be said about Mujica.

Come to think of it, you could say the same about Kobayashi and then what's stopping the Indians from using a guy like Miller/Meloan in a more advanced role? They'd be the 7th man in terms of the fact that they'd be the last name to make the team, but not neccessarily in their usage.

It just seems like an extra option where one isn't needed to me at this point. The old adage is you can't have enough pitching, but with seemingly 5/6 options for one spot, one more doesn't seem necessary.

Maybe it's a pre-cursor to a bullpen arm being traded, maybe they are 100% committed to Miller and Meloan starting the year in Columbus, or maybe they are looking at Salas as an option for AAA himself. Right now though, whilst I can't really criticise the move, I still don't really see the point in it.
User avatar
dazindiansfanuk
Tyner Is God
 
Posts: 8995
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:21 am
Location: Cardiff, UK
Favorite Player: Jhonny Peralta
Least Favorite Player: Curt Schilling

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby redneckofsc » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:33 pm

Wedge said, in general, he was happy with the shape guys reported in. But without naming names, he said, "There's always a couple that don't look quite how you want them to." Then he added sarcastically, "It's not like you have anything to get in shape for."


Wedge had a similar comment about BP when he got cut in favor of Vazquez.
"I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

"All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
User avatar
redneckofsc
The Ultimate Grinder
 
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: W/ Russell Branyan
Favorite Player: Wil Cordero
Least Favorite Player: Matt LaPorta

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby TitoFrancona » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:25 pm

redneckofsc wrote:
Wedge said, in general, he was happy with the shape guys reported in. But without naming names, he said, "There's always a couple that don't look quite how you want them to." Then he added sarcastically, "It's not like you have anything to get in shape for."


Wedge had a similar comment about BP when he got cut in favor of Vazquez.


He may have had sarcastic comments about BP, but I don't recall Brandon ever being out of shape as an Indian.

Wedge simply didn't like Brandon on a personal level and that's why he's not a Cleveland Indian. Had 0 to do with anything else imo.

That being said, this may explain why Marte was DFA'd. It very well could have been Andy that Wedge was referring to. No proof there, just a hunch.
TitoFrancona
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca
Favorite Player: Tito Francona
Least Favorite Player: Jim Thome

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Stu » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:58 pm

TitoFrancona wrote:
redneckofsc wrote:
Wedge said, in general, he was happy with the shape guys reported in. But without naming names, he said, "There's always a couple that don't look quite how you want them to." Then he added sarcastically, "It's not like you have anything to get in shape for."


Wedge had a similar comment about BP when he got cut in favor of Vazquez.


He may have had sarcastic comments about BP, but I don't recall Brandon ever being out of shape as an Indian.

Wedge simply didn't like Brandon on a personal level and that's why he's not a Cleveland Indian. Had 0 to do with anything else imo.

That being said, this may explain why Marte was DFA'd. It very well could have been Andy that Wedge was referring to. No proof there, just a hunch.


yea but that doesnt fit redneck's rant :roll :roll:
Stu
 
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Player: Eric Wedge
Least Favorite Player: Swerb

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby jameseboy » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:46 pm

OMG think of how many years of BP and AM posts we can look forward to now...lmao
jameseboy
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:16 am

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby statmasta » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:49 pm

Wait a minute, people do nothing but rip Marte and now that he's gone they think it's a mistake and compare him to Brandon Phillips?

WTF?!

Anyways, I love the deal. Get rid of Marte and get a guy who can be a very productive pitcher for us at some point this season (because I'd say there's no way he makes the team for opening day). He's been a dominant minor league pitcher, and an effective major league pitcher in his limited time. I love it. You can never have enough bullpen depth.

Another very good move that will be overlooked when people bash Shapiro, kind of like the Perdomo for Reyes deal.
User avatar
statmasta
 
Posts: 1743
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:45 pm
Favorite Player: Sandy Alomar Jr.
Least Favorite Player: A.J. Pierzynski

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby slegend » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:57 am

I think it was expected that Marte would be get the infamous DFA and play for another organization. Wedge & company do not know how to develop talent into legit MLB production. Andy Marte, like many before him, will get to the MLB level and become a solid player with a franchise that does not attempt to force him to become something different. All we did in Cleveland was say his swing sucks and attempt to make him a different hitter. But, that is what you get with a staff of friends and not a staff of instruction gurus.

Not as bad as the handling of BP, but close enough to illustrate that Wedge and Shapiro never learn from their mistakes.
User avatar
slegend
Attention Whore
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Favorite Player: Grady Sizemore
Least Favorite Player: A-Rod

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Stu » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:16 am

slegend wrote:Wedge & company do not know how to develop talent into legit MLB production.


Exactly.

Grady Sizemore, Ben Francisco, Shin Soo Choo, Fausto Carmona, Rafael Perez, Jensen Lewis, Jhonny Peralta, Victor Martinez, Kelly Shoppach, Asdrubal Cabrera and others all came to the franchise at similar stages in their career as Marte or even earlier. Each of these players clearly developed into Major League ballplayers purely out of spite for Wedge, Shapiro, and the Managerial staff.
Stu
 
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Player: Eric Wedge
Least Favorite Player: Swerb

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby redneckofsc » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:12 am

Grady Sizemore, Ben Francisco, Shin Soo Choo, Fausto Carmona, Rafael Perez, Jensen Lewis, Jhonny Peralta, Victor Martinez, Kelly Shoppach, Asdrubal Cabrera and others all came to the franchise at similar stages in their career as Marte or even earlier. Each of these players clearly developed into Major League ballplayers purely out of spite for Wedge, Shapiro, and the Managerial staff.


Sizemore would not have made the roster if Juan Gonzalez didnt get injured.
Wedge played Michaels and Dellucci over Francisco and Choo way too long
They alomst screwed Carmona up by throwing him around.
Lewis and Perez both got overlooked by turd washed out veterans
"I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

"All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
User avatar
redneckofsc
The Ultimate Grinder
 
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: W/ Russell Branyan
Favorite Player: Wil Cordero
Least Favorite Player: Matt LaPorta

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:31 am

slegend wrote:I think it was expected that Marte would be get the infamous DFA and play for another organization. Wedge & company do not know how to develop talent into legit MLB production. Andy Marte, like many before him, will get to the MLB level and become a solid player with a franchise that does not attempt to force him to become something different. All we did in Cleveland was say his swing sucks and attempt to make him a different hitter. But, that is what you get with a staff of friends and not a staff of instruction gurus.

Not as bad as the handling of BP, but close enough to illustrate that Wedge and Shapiro never learn from their mistakes.


No, he will not go to another organization and be a good player. For Christ sake, instead of having an utter feling of paranoia everytime the Tribe moves on from a young player, try something novel - like watching the f'in games.

Unless there is a place on a team for lost at the plate can't hit a breakin ball no strike zone awareness out of shape players, he'll continue to fade into dark.

Yeah, the Tribe ruined Andy Marte. Couldn't be lack of talent.
User avatar
leadpipe
The Reverend
 
Posts: 6643
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:58 am

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby JodyGerutsGhost » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:33 am

How anyone can argue that losing Marte was a mistake is mind-boggling.

Marte was given every opportunity to succeed in Cleveland after the big deal with Boston. He wasn't great in two seasons with Buffalo, and showed a lack of determination in staying in shape showed. He had his chance to showcase his talent after trading Blake, and he proceeded to hit .221 with a 54 OPS+. Really scary if you ask me.

Even by some chance he is claimed and has success, it sure as hell wouldn't have happened here. People point to Brandon Phillips, the same Phillips whose OPS+ is worse than Ronnie Belliard. Boo hoo, he has power, but that's about it. And it sounds like the same story with Marte.

Teams lose this all the time. I bet the Rays brass hates Josh Hamilton, who went from a coked out, substance abuse individual to a 32 home run, 136 OPS+ player since. So I won't lose any sleep over losing Marte.
User avatar
JodyGerutsGhost
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Cheektowaga, New York
Favorite Player: Anze Kopitar
Least Favorite Player: Derek Jeter

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Stu » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:44 am

redneckofsc wrote:
Grady Sizemore, Ben Francisco, Shin Soo Choo, Fausto Carmona, Rafael Perez, Jensen Lewis, Jhonny Peralta, Victor Martinez, Kelly Shoppach, Asdrubal Cabrera and others all came to the franchise at similar stages in their career as Marte or even earlier. Each of these players clearly developed into Major League ballplayers purely out of spite for Wedge, Shapiro, and the Managerial staff.


Sizemore would not have made the roster if Juan Gonzalez didnt get injured.
Wedge played Michaels and Dellucci over Francisco and Choo way too long
They alomst screwed Carmona up by throwing him around.
Lewis and Perez both got overlooked by turd washed out veterans


Choo has been hurt a lot...

Sizemore would have been up anyway, you make it sound like he'd still be in AAA today if it wasnt for Juan Gone's hammys.

They needed to find a spot somewhere for Carmona but everything in the rotation was filled. Clearly they didnt screw him up based on his 07 performance.

Lewis and Perez have both been used in incredibly key situations over the years.

Yet even with all you said, these players still developed. Wasnt that the whole point of your statement, that Wedge and Shapiro can't develop players? Clearly they can.
Stu
 
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Player: Eric Wedge
Least Favorite Player: Swerb

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby MadThinker88 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:04 am

The thing about the trade that bothers me isn't the DFA of Marte (I posted earlier on my thoughts there), its the 'acquiring of depth' with the incredible arm that teams see to covet.

Salas is depth if guys like Adam Miller, John Meloan and Tony Sipp get a chance first (because they are already on the 40 man roster). On top of that there are other options in the pipeline already (Newsom, Wagner, Herrmann, Tomlin, etc) that decisions have to made on.

Time will tell but based on track record, I fear Salas gets the opportunity in Cleveland this season before 2 of those 3 (Miller, Meloan, Sipp) and ahead of all the other prospects that need to be sorted through.
MadThinker88
In Tressel We Trust
 
Posts: 2634
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:01 am

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:15 am

slegend wrote:Andy Marte, like many before him, will get to the MLB level and become a solid player with a franchise that does not attempt to force him to become something different.

Double or nothing?
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:18 am

Steve Buffum wrote:
slegend wrote:Andy Marte, like many before him, will get to the MLB level and become a solid player with a franchise that does not attempt to force him to become something different.

Double or nothing?


He won't have the career longevity or numbers that Dellucci did before Dellucci died a couple years ago. I still miss that guy.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22795
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby TitoFrancona » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:13 pm

statmasta wrote:Wait a minute, people do nothing but rip Marte and now that he's gone they think it's a mistake and compare him to Brandon Phillips?

WTF?!

Anyways, I love the deal. Get rid of Marte and get a guy who can be a very productive pitcher for us at some point this season (because I'd say there's no way he makes the team for opening day). He's been a dominant minor league pitcher, and an effective major league pitcher in his limited time. I love it. You can never have enough bullpen depth.

Another very good move that will be overlooked when people bash Shapiro, kind of like the Perdomo for Reyes deal.


I would love it too, but didn't they get Salas? Who is this very productive pitcher you're talking about? Hell, in his 30s without any tendons left in his arm left, Nagy dominated 3A. I wouldn't put too much stock into what a 30 year old player does in the minors.
TitoFrancona
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca
Favorite Player: Tito Francona
Least Favorite Player: Jim Thome

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:17 pm

TitoFrancona wrote:I would love it too, but didn't they get Salas? Who is this very productive pitcher you're talking about? Hell, in his 30s without any tendons left in his arm left, Nagy dominated 3A. I wouldn't put too much stock into what a 30 year old player does in the minors.

Although this point certainly has merit, you can't necessarily compare Salas to other 30-year-old pitchers: he was only converted to pitching 5 years ago. And he has an option left, so this isn't a "use him or lose him" proposition.
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby redneckofsc » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:23 pm

Jesus. I did not realize this guy was 30. So not only was he juicing, but he is over the hill and only hasnt even pitched 50 innings in the majors.

This will just be another edition of Juan Rincon, Brenden Donnely, Olberto, etc.
"I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

"All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
User avatar
redneckofsc
The Ultimate Grinder
 
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: W/ Russell Branyan
Favorite Player: Wil Cordero
Least Favorite Player: Matt LaPorta

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:32 pm

redneckofsc wrote:This will just be another edition of Juan Rincon, Brenden Donnely, Olberto, etc.

Actually, it's virtually the opposite. Those guys are all toast due to extreme overwork earlier in their careers. Almost by fiat (because he didn't pitch at all for the first 25 years of his life), Salas does not have this issue.

Look, I'm not excited by Juan Salas. But he's worth a look. And Andy Marte is not.
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby davemanddd » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:21 pm

redneckofsc wrote:Why the hell not just drop David Dellucci.


because de-douche-bag has a guaranteed $4 million contract while andy marte does not. it's a helluvalot easier to drop marte's $300k contract than to eat de-douche-bag's $4 grrr. make no mistake about it now, money still talks for the dolan discount gang.
dave . . .
davemanddd
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:07 pm
Location: mansfield, ohio
Favorite Player: joe thomas
Least Favorite Player: lebron james

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Toxicadam » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:37 pm

Why do you guys engage SC? Next time you get the urge, bang your head into the wall. You will have less of a headache and might even suffer less brain damage.

I'm sure we will see another SC gloating thread pop up when Marte has a great first week of baseball for the Nationals and then we never hear from him again.
User avatar
Toxicadam
 
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:53 am

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Stu » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:39 pm

davemanddd wrote:
redneckofsc wrote:Why the hell not just drop David Dellucci.


because de-douche-bag has a guaranteed $4 million contract while andy marte does not. it's a helluvalot easier to drop marte's $300k contract than to eat de-douche-bag's $4 grrr. make no mistake about it now, money still talks for the dolan discount gang.


that makes no sense. please explain how dolan makes or saves more money by cutting dellucci over marte.
Stu
 
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Player: Eric Wedge
Least Favorite Player: Swerb

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby redneckofsc » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:45 pm

I'm sure we will see another SC gloating thread pop up when Marte has a great first week of baseball for the Nationals and then we never hear from him again.



Most people were saying about the same thing when we dumped BP and Guthrie; that they would never produce.
"I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

"All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
User avatar
redneckofsc
The Ultimate Grinder
 
Posts: 4644
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 pm
Location: W/ Russell Branyan
Favorite Player: Wil Cordero
Least Favorite Player: Matt LaPorta

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Stu » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:00 pm

redneckofsc wrote:
I'm sure we will see another SC gloating thread pop up when Marte has a great first week of baseball for the Nationals and then we never hear from him again.



Most people were saying about the same thing when we dumped BP and Guthrie; that they would never produce.


BP and Guthrie at least had this thing called talent, had performed on the field at the major league level, and were very questionable moves at the time. What has Marte done to make you think he deserves a spot on the 25 man roster?
Stu
 
Posts: 1642
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:15 pm
Favorite Player: Eric Wedge
Least Favorite Player: Swerb

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:35 pm

redneckofsc wrote:
I'm sure we will see another SC gloating thread pop up when Marte has a great first week of baseball for the Nationals and then we never hear from him again.



Most people were saying about the same thing when we dumped BP and Guthrie; that they would never produce.

Do you believe Andy Marte and Brandon Phillips were treated in fundamentally the same manner and denied the same opportunities to produce at the major-league level?

If not, is it possible that this represents the state change you lobbied for?

If so, doesn't this amount to picking at scabs?
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby slegend » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:54 pm

I will put a round of beers, food, at a nice Cleveland bar for happy hour up for a bet.... I will make the trip from VA to c-town....

Deal:

After the 2010 season (I know we are talking two years)...

1: Marte will land with another team in 09...
2: In 2010, Marte will be the full-time 3B...
3: He will hit .250 or higher... He will hit 15 or more HRs... He will drive in 59 or more RBIs...

And all the c-town posters can rip me in person while they have a nice 2 hour drinkathon on me...

If I win the bet... You still have to show up at the bar, but were t-shirts for two hours that I will have printed...

Front: SLegend for Tribe GM
Back: Shapiro sucks, Wedge swallows
User avatar
slegend
Attention Whore
 
Posts: 1066
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:00 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Favorite Player: Grady Sizemore
Least Favorite Player: A-Rod

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby Steve Buffum » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:20 pm

slegend wrote:I will put a round of beers, food, at a nice Cleveland bar for happy hour up for a bet.... I will make the trip from VA to c-town....

Deal:

After the 2010 season (I know we are talking two years)...

1: Marte will land with another team in 09...
2: In 2010, Marte will be the full-time 3B...
3: He will hit .250 or higher... He will hit 15 or more HRs... He will drive in 59 or more RBIs...

And all the c-town posters can rip me in person while they have a nice 2 hour drinkathon on me...

If I win the bet... You still have to show up at the bar, but were t-shirts for two hours that I will have printed...

Front: SLegend for Tribe GM
Back: Shapiro sucks, Wedge swallows

Yeah, I'm in.
User avatar
Steve Buffum
Prose Flayer
 
Posts: 5463
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:32 am
Location: Austin TX
Favorite Player: Withheld
Least Favorite Player: David Huff

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:05 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:
slegend wrote:I will put a round of beers, food, at a nice Cleveland bar for happy hour up for a bet.... I will make the trip from VA to c-town....

Deal:

After the 2010 season (I know we are talking two years)...

1: Marte will land with another team in 09...
2: In 2010, Marte will be the full-time 3B...
3: He will hit .250 or higher... He will hit 15 or more HRs... He will drive in 59 or more RBIs...

And all the c-town posters can rip me in person while they have a nice 2 hour drinkathon on me...

If I win the bet... You still have to show up at the bar, but were t-shirts for two hours that I will have printed...

Front: SLegend for Tribe GM
Back: Shapiro sucks, Wedge swallows

Yeah, I'm in.


So let's say he does hit .259, 15 & 60.....This would be a guy it be worth gettin' your shorts in a bunch cause you lost him.

In any event, count the Lead Man in, he can't believe he doesn't even have to give odds on this lay-up.

In 2010 people aren't even going to know who the hell Andy Marte is.

IN.

And just to show I'm a gracious winner, The Lead Man will have a shirt for you which will read;

I WILL WATCH THE GAME.
User avatar
leadpipe
The Reverend
 
Posts: 6643
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:58 am

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby TitoFrancona » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:42 pm

slegend wrote:I will put a round of beers, food, at a nice Cleveland bar for happy hour up for a bet.... I will make the trip from VA to c-town....

Deal:

After the 2010 season (I know we are talking two years)...

1: Marte will land with another team in 09...
2: In 2010, Marte will be the full-time 3B...
3: He will hit .250 or higher... He will hit 15 or more HRs... He will drive in 59 or more RBIs...

And all the c-town posters can rip me in person while they have a nice 2 hour drinkathon on me...

If I win the bet... You still have to show up at the bar, but were t-shirts for two hours that I will have printed...

Front: SLegend for Tribe GM
Back: Shapiro sucks, Wedge swallows


If that's what he gives us, then I guess they did the right thing. That's a below average offensive 3rd baseman imo. And while his defense is pretty decent - it's not what anybody would refer as being outstanding.

I'll make a bet with you. By 2011, Hodges does at least that well.
TitoFrancona
 
Posts: 1634
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:37 pm
Location: Sacramento, Ca
Favorite Player: Tito Francona
Least Favorite Player: Jim Thome

Re: Marte DFA'd -Indians acquire RHP Juan Salas

Unread postby consigliere » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:58 pm

slegend wrote:1: Marte will land with another team in 09...
2: In 2010, Marte will be the full-time 3B...
3: He will hit .250 or higher... He will hit 15 or more HRs... He will drive in 59 or more RBIs...


So, in other words, he becomes a poor man's Casey Blake. You know, the guy you absolutely despised and made it a point to let us all know it too.
:hide:
Indians Prospect Insider: http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/
Image
User avatar
consigliere
 
Posts: 10822
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Painesville Twp, OH
Favorite Player: Jeff Stevens
Least Favorite Player: Carl Willis

Next

Return to Cleveland Indians & MLB

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ybot and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: ybot and 1 guest