Indians talking with Mulder

[consigliere]

Per ESPN:

Tribe in the running
Dec 20 - The Indians have stepped forward with a two-year offer for Mark Mulder, sources tell ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick.
Mulder is coming off shoulder surgery and isn't expected to be ready by Opening Day. But some clubs have been creative and expressed a willingness to make more than a straight one-year commitment because of the pitcher's potential upside in 2008. Arizona, for example, proposed a one-year contract with four option years.

Mulder, who got married last weekend in Scottsdale, Ariz., is currently on his honeymoon and keeping in touch with agent Gregg Clifton by phone. He plans to make his decision after the Cardinals, Rangers and Diamondbacks make their final pitches.

[pup]

Whatever. Don't even get your hopes up.

[pup]

Mulder stays with the Cardinals. 2 years, $13 million. Way to step up and get something done Tribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[consigliere]

Stop whining.

THe Indians offered 2 years with at least $18M gauranteed...$5M more gauranteed than what the Cards offered.

Also, why is it everytime we lose out on someone the sky is falling, but when we sign someone the guy is garbage. The Indians sign guys like Foulke, Borowski, Hernandez, and Dellucci this offseason and get cracked.....but then when they don't get deals done for like players (injurred, rehab guys) like Dotel, Gagne, Alou, and Mulder, they get cracked. And in the Alou and Mulder cases they offered significantly more money. But, no matter what they do, they get cracked.

[pup]

Stop whining.

No.

THe Indians offered 2 years with at least $18M gauranteed...$5M more gauranteed than what the Cards offered.

Here is the St. Louis deal: 2 years $13M. If he makes 30 starts this year (highly unlikely) and next it becomes a 3 year $45M deal. There is no way that was in the Indians offer.

Also, why is it everytime we lose out on someone the sky is falling, but when we sign someone the guy is garbage. The Indians sign guys like Foulke, Borowski, Hernandez, and Dellucci this offseason and get cracked.

Because those guys are garbage.

but then when they don't get deals done for like players (injurred, rehab guys) like Dotel, Gagne, Alou

I was against signing each of every one of those players as well.

And in the Alou and Mulder cases they offered significantly more money. But, no matter what they do, they get cracked.

They offered Alou slightly more money.

Why is it that no matter who they sign, you are 100% positive?

[consigliere]

The Indians had a lot of the same incentives in the Mulder deal. But, Mulder is highly unlikely to get the deal to 3/45 because he pretty much won't be able to get 30 starts in 2007.

Bottom line, gauranteed money is all you have to look at. 2/13 vs. 2/18.

And, Alou was a significant difference. He signed for 1 year $8.5M gauranteed.....we had a two year gauranteed offer on the table to somewhere between $16M-19M.

And, don't mistake me for sort of defending moves as me supporting them. A lot of times, I like to rationalize the moves out loud, and it can sound like I agree with everything. I understand the moves, and can live with most of them.....but it should be noted there was not one FA signing that made me all warm and fuzzy. Collectively, I like what they did given what was available in FA and trade....but I aknowledge the potential problems with the players signed. That said, I love the Barfield trade, and do feel that collectively the FA signings they made will help this team.

[pup]

Bottom line, gauranteed money is all you have to look at. 2/13 vs. 2/18.

The Indians offer was not gauranteed $18M. It was one year at 7.5 and with incentives his 2008 could be $10M, making it an $18M deal.

And, Alou was a significant difference. He signed for 1 year $8.5M gauranteed.....we had a two year gauranteed offer on the table to somewhere between $16M-19M.

So this year, his salary would be the same. How is that a significant increase? An extra year means nothing to Alou. He might not even want to play 2 years. Dollar for dollar, we offered roughly the same as the Mets.

And, don't mistake me for sort of defending moves as me supporting them. A lot of times, I like to rationalize the moves out loud, and it can sound like I agree with everything. I understand the moves, and can live with most of them.....but it should be noted there was not one FA signing that made me all warm and fuzzy. Collectively, I like what they did given what was available in FA and trade....but I aknowledge the potential problems with the players signed. That said, I love the Barfield trade, and do feel that collectively the FA signings they made will help this team.

Now that is a rationale that I can fully appreciate.

[Dozen]

I'm wondering what this means as far as resigning Westbrook. If they offered that to a pitcher who was hurt, how much is Jake worth? Does his agent play hardball with the Dolans now? Not saying he wouldnt to begin with, but this gives him some grounds to work off of. Now do they take that money and still try and get a RH bat?

[pup]

It wasn't in the plans if they signed Mulder and won't be in the plans now that they did not sign him.

I think the Indians will look to 2008 as their World Series year, with a rotation of CC, Miller, Lee, Carmona and Sowers.

[Dozen]

It wasn't in the plans if they signed Mulder and won't be in the plans now that they did not sign him.

I think the Indians will look to 2008 as their World Series year, with a rotation of CC, Miller, Lee, Carmona and Sowers.

settle down, lets not get carried away

[pup]

I didn't say I saw it as a World Series year, they do.

[Dozen]

I know, just bustin

[consigliere]

The Indians offer was not gauranteed $18M. It was one year at 7.5 and with incentives his 2008 could be $10M, making it an $18M deal.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NASApp ... p&c_id=cle

Mulder opted to remain with the St. Louis Cardinals, agreeing Wednesday to a two-year contract that reportedly guarantees him $13 million. The contract includes an option for 2009.

It had been speculated the Indians' offer to Mulder included a higher guarantee of about $18 million over two years.

Also, Mulder's base in 2007 is $5M. The Indians base for 2007 was $7.75M. Mulder's base in 2008 was to be $6.5M. The Indians base would have been above that. $1.5M of the gauranteed money Mulder is getting is from the option buyout in 2009. The Indians offer was clearly superior, but he just decided to stay in St. Louis. Wish our FAs did that and took less to stay.

So this year, his salary would be the same. How is that a significant increase? An extra year means nothing to Alou. He might not even want to play 2 years. Dollar for dollar, we offered roughly the same as the Mets.

Money is money. $8.5M vs. $16-18M. Which is the better option of gauranteed money? If an extra year means nothing, then I guess that extra year to Thome meant nothing either.

I'm wondering what this means as far as resigning Westbrook. If they offered that to a pitcher who was hurt, how much is Jake worth? Does his agent play hardball with the Dolans now? Not saying he wouldnt to begin with, but this gives him some grounds to work off of. Now do they take that money and still try and get a RH bat?

I think Westbrook is as good as gone. There is no way they can keep all three of Westbrook, Hafner, and Sabathia....

All three, starting in 2009 which total about at least $40M-$45M per season in salary. That would be roughly 50-60% of our payroll if we bumped to a $75-80M payrol which even then is pushing it. No way.

They'll explore deals with all three, but I think they are more interested in retaining both of CC and Hafner and letting Westbrook walk. They arguably have some youth ready to step in.....we'll see this year how Carmona and Miller progress. Westbrook is a lot easier to replace than a #1 like Sabathia.

[Dozen]

Did Shapiro ever sign an extension?

[pup]

Also, Mulder's base in 2007 is $5M. The Indians base for 2007 was $7.75M. Mulder's base in 2008 was to be $6.5M. The Indians base would have been above that. $1.5M of the gauranteed money Mulder is getting is from the option buyout in 2009. The Indians offer was clearly superior

If this is TRUE, not specualtion, then they had better figure out why the F#@! all these FA use and abuse them. Are they targeting the wrong people? Probably not. I don't think FA look at this as a team ready to win. Be it the talent, the front office or more than likely the manager, they need to figure this out. Could they be putting out inflated numbers on what they area actually offering?

Money is money. $8.5M vs. $16-18M. Which is the better option of gauranteed money? If an extra year means nothing, then I guess that extra year to Thome meant nothing either

An extra year to a 43 year old outfielder and a 28 year old LH hitting goon are different. If Alou wants another $8M, he will get it again next year. If he is going to retire after this year, then the extra year and money mean nothing to him.

All three, starting in 2009 which total about at least $40M-$45M per season in salary. That would be roughly 50-60% of our payroll if we bumped to a $75-80M payrol which even then is pushing it. No way.

According to Paul, money is not an object for this team heading into the future, that is why they looked to acquire Manny. Westbrook will be gone because Carmona (possibly) and Miller (95% likely) will be better. It is also why Byrd will be gone soon. CC, Miller, Lee, Carmona, Sowers is a very good rotation. Hopefully they do not blow it by having Joe Borowski or Kieth Foulke closing out games by then.

[Dozen]

According to Paul

nuff said

[consigliere]

No extension for Shapiro yet, but I think it is close.

Also, Sykes, those contract numbers on what Mulder gets from the Cardinals in 2007/2008 came from today's St. Lous Dispatch, and the Indians numbers from the Indians.com article earlier in the week. They can't report inflated numbers otherwise they woud be penalized by the league and could even turn off other clubs/agents for reporting such inaccuracies.

[pup]

could even turn off other clubs/agents for reporting such inaccuracies.

Then what would happen? Agents and players would just use us to get better deals from the team they eventually sign with?