Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, paulcousineau
by jjgmyers » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:32 pm
by British_Pharaoh » Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:35 pm
I wish I was good at Baseball!!!
by pup » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:39 pm
by consigliere » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:14 am
by pup » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:54 am
They'll be trying to crawl out from under that contract in 1-2 years
by ACrank » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:10 am
by pup » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:19 am
if you stop looking at what a guy is you end up overpaying for people like Gil Meche
by consigliere » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:50 am
Pup wrote:That is why you might as well pay the going price for the top free agents. There are no bargains anymore, maybe re-treads, but no bargains.
by ACrank » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:43 pm
by pup » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:53 pm
if there are no bargains anymore - then why sign free agents to begin with?
by Big Lu » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:50 pm
Why do free agents have to be bargains? Why can't you just pay what the going rate is, but instead of paying the going rate for 5 guys in the bottom of the free agent class, pay for 1 guy at the top. Do you do all your shopping at Costco? Sam's Club? Wal-Mart?
by ACrank » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:55 pm
by pup » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:43 pm
no one is saying no free agents at all
Free agents are either good buys for the money or horribly overpaid
and a team like the Indians will never be able to outbid major market teams for the same players, because to outbid them the Indians would have to outbid them by a huge amount
by ACrank » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:52 pm
No they are not. If you give Carlos Lee 16 mil and he hits .300 with 40 homers and 130 rbi, he is worth the money, but not a bargain. A horrbily overpaid FA would be Eric Gagne spending 4 months on the DL.
by pup » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:10 am
Hey pup - i bet i asked you this before, but can you name me the last big time free agent the Indians went after and signed. I mean ever....
by ACrank » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:18 am
by pup » Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:45 am
Guess we just disagree again....
because the Hart era Indians could have used a marquee free agent to put them over the top, and they had the money to actually be able to affoard one...
but i know - you are a fan, you don't care about stuff like that....
(and another board going down the tubes because the fascination is on Dolan not spending money - while ignoring the financial inequities of MLB)
by consigliere » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:10 pm
Pup wrote:While the Indians sit around trying to play the martyr role for the small revenue clubs, the rest of our division continues to improve and make the gap wider.
by pup » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:41 pm
The Indians, so far, have made the most improvements of any of the Big 4 in the central
by consigliere » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:47 pm
Pup wrote:Of course, you still think that adding Borowski/Hernandez/Fultz is better than adding Mota/Saurebeck/Graves/Karsay last year.
Did I miss them doing something meaningful?
by pup » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:24 pm
Um, yes. Graves/Karsay were both minor league invites....so, yes, Borowski/Hernandez/Fultz is much better than Mota/Sauerbeck
guys like Gammons, Olney, Neyer, Sheehan, Stark, etc are all in line with saying two things: the Indians may be having one of the better offseasons in baseball, and that they don't need to do much except in the bullpen.
by ACrank » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:19 am
Pup wrote:Guess we just disagree again.... This is true.because the Hart era Indians could have used a marquee free agent to put them over the top, and they had the money to actually be able to affoard one... You are questioning a team that played in 2 World Series for not making an over the top move, while chastising me for questioning the non-moves of a sub-.500 team.
The financial inequities of MLB are what they are. I am sorry that it has you so upset that you are willing to support an inferior product on blind loyalty.
While the Indians sit around trying to play the martyr role for the small revenue clubs, the rest of our division continues to improve and make the gap wider.
by ACrank » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:23 am
Pup wrote:Um, yes. Graves/Karsay were both minor league invites....so, yes, Borowski/Hernandez/Fultz is much better than Mota/SauerbeckThey might have been minor league invites, but one or the other was definitely considered part of the plan going in.
Is Borowski/Hernandez/Fultz better than Wickman/Mota/Saurebeck? I am sure you will say yes, but there is little to no proof that that is in fact true.
Best case scenerio has us exactly where we were last year at the start of the season. That was good for 78 wins
by consigliere » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:40 pm
Graham (Michigan): Who do you think is the favorite in the AL Central at this point in the offseason? Jim Callis: (2:25 PM ET ) I think Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and Minnesota are all legitimate contenders, and Kansas City will be improved. Right now my pick is the Indians---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------joe, detroit: You (and a couple other prominent baseball experts, Olney and Neyer) like the tribe in the AL Central, despite a 4th place finish, why? Jim Callis: (2:38 PM ET ) Because last year's finish doesn't matter. Cleveland's record was a fluke, in that they outscored their opposition by a lot more than their W-L would indicate, and I think they'll bounce back.
by pup » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:03 pm
by consigliere » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:22 pm
by pup » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:36 pm
by consigliere » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:20 pm
by pup » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:18 pm
Maybe you should work for ESPN then
Their access to the inside info is EXACTLY why their opinions matter more.....they are more informed.
by consigliere » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:10 pm
by pup » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:26 am
by consigliere » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:01 pm
Since I did predict that the Tigers would make the playoffs (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... edictions/), I'll take the liberty of making some early predictions (note: subject to change without notice). I like another team from the AL Central tobreak out next season: the Cleveland Indians. The Indians won 78 gameslast season, but they should have won 89 based on their Pythagoreanrecord (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/teams/).They also have one of the best signings (in terms of production perdollar) of the offseason in David Dellucci, and their lineup will further be improved with a better year from Jhonny Peralta and a full season from Andy Marte. Josh Barfield was a very nice acquisition as well. Then again,offense wasn't a problem last year for the Indians, who finished secondin the AL in runs, so it doesn't really even need to improve.On the pitching side of things, Cleveland has the most underrated starin the game in C.C. Sabathia, who finished eighth in the American League in Pitching Runs Created (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/m ... er%5B%5D=1) last year, and they should also benefit from a full year from Jeremy Sowers. Barfield and Marte should help shore up the Indians infield defense, which was atrocious last year, and Peralta will likely have a better season than he did last year as well, which will really help out the pitching staff, especially Jake Westbrook. I think this is a 90-win team, and maybe the favorite in a suddenly tough AL Central.I also bet you'll be seeing a lot of writers "discover" Travis Hafner next season.
by pup » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:05 pm
by ACrank » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:28 pm
by consigliere » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:56 pm
by pup » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:11 pm
by ACrank » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:52 am
by pup » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:55 am
by consigliere » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:24 am
by pup » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:53 am
by consigliere » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:15 am
by ACrank » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:46 pm
Pup wrote:For a guy that thinks David Delucci brings the same thing to the table as Carlos Lee, I wouldn't really expect to convince you of anything.
by consigliere » Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:26 am
by pup » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:31 pm
Per BPro, Lee was a good left fielder in 2004 (Rate 109, 13 FRAA). But in 2005 he was not good (Rate 97, -5 FRAA), and in 2006 he cratered (MIL/TEX: Rate 87/90, -12/-5 FRAA). That is awful, and ultimately, he's getting older and fatter, and it's hard to see a renaissance.
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