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Indians sign Hernandez

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Indians sign Hernandez

Unread postby consigliere » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:59 pm

Reportedly, the Indians signed Roberto Hernandez to a one year deal. Also, they are supposedly close to maybe getting something done with Borowski.
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Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:25 am

Hernandez is gonna be an undervalued signing

most fickle fans and FO haters will say its another cheap signing and they'll constantly moan about his age

but he's still getting it done


2 of his best seasons have come in the last 3 years


I'll take 60IP and a 3.11ERA anyday

his career ERA is 3.32 and he has 326 career saves (not saying he'll be our closer but he has the experience)

we need more veterans in the pen

thats why our pen was so poor last year full of inexperienced kids.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:15 am

I have no problem with Hernandez as long as the intent is to have him pitch in middle relief in the 7th/8th innings. If they plan on using him as the setup guy, I'll have a problem with it.

THis market is insane (Pierre 5 years $45M?). Unfortunately, we are going to have to make a bad signing (Borowski) because there just is nothing out there as far as closers go and we need one bad.

If I were GM, I'd pass on any multi-year offers with the closers on the FA market. I'd settle for a 1 year gamble on Gagne at $10M. At least if he sucks he doesn't tie us up for the next half decade.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:32 am

I agree with the Consig about Roberto. He will fill in very nicely in the 7th inning, but no later.

As far as Gagne goes, if they give him $10 million, I will explode. How in the world anybody can justify that kind of coin for a guy who has thrown 12 pitches in 2 years is beyond me.

I still don't see this team doing anything to improve going into next year. We are going to overpay for the fringe free agents we do acquire, just so we can say we spent the money.

If you are going to give 5 shitty free agents a $25 million, why not just spend it all on a couple of guys.

We are right about where I said we would be. No Soriano :o , no Alou, No Nomar, no Jamie Walker. Not in the Lee bidding, missed the 3rd baseman from Japan, going to miss on the left-hander from Japan. Someone plese explain this to me.....where is this organization headed?
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Unread postby The Score » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:18 pm

We are right about where I said we would be. No Soriano :o , no Alou, No Nomar, no Jamie Walker. Not in the Lee bidding, missed the 3rd baseman from Japan, going to miss on the left-hander from Japan. Someone plese explain this to me.....where is this organization headed?


They're not headed anywhere. They are already where they are going, and that is being a team that spends in the bottom 1/3 of payroll and tries to catch lightning in a bottle by signing retreads.

Very infrequently this strategy will pay off (Millwood), more often though it won't (Juan-Gone, Graves, Jason Johnson, etc.)

Dolan won't spend the $$ to compete and MLB sucks with their financial setup. Being in the race after the all-star break is probably the best to hope for.
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Unread postby ACrank » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:19 pm

Maybe i don't get it...

1) what is the difference between a 7/8th inning pitcher and a set up guy?

2) 8 years/136 million for Soriano? not sure how that would have helped the Indians any (assuming Soriano would have signed for that much w/ Cleveland)

3) the Indians supposedly offered Alou a 2 year contract at more money than the Mets - Alou signed with the Mets - can Cleveland ever expect to sign a "legit" free agent again?

4) at some point the Indians are going to have to sign someone to an unfriendly contract, but boy the options were hardly earth shattering so far...
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Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:30 pm

what is the difference between a 7/8th inning pitcher and a set up guy


A 7/8 inning guy would be used primarily in tied games or down a run. The set up man is a closer used to protect a lead in the late innings. It is very different mentally to protect a lead than it is to keep a game close.

2) 8 years/136 million for Soriano? not sure how that would have helped the Indians any (assuming Soriano would have signed for that much w/ Cleveland)


It would make our lineup better. We have question marks peppered throughout the lineup. If we are going to regress in other areas, left field is a prime spot to upgrade. All I know is I don't want to see a post in July from you stating A) how bad Jason Michaels is or B) where did all of our offense go.

3) the Indians supposedly offered Alou a 2 year contract at more money than the Mets - Alou signed with the Mets - can Cleveland ever expect to sign a "legit" free agent again?


Key word:
supposedly

Where does this information come from? Shapiro or Dolan?

4) at some point the Indians are going to have to sign someone to an unfriendly contract, but boy the options were hardly earth shattering so far...


Which is what I have been saying for the last 2 weeks, but I get arguments saying the contrary. There were 4 significant free agents. Soriano, Lee, Zito and Schmidt. One is gone. If we don't pay for one of the other 3, the only option left is trading. Now you have to give people up (make team worse) to get help. Unless you are going to rob someone blind, we are in trouble.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:20 pm

Re: 7th/8th inning guy

THink Betancourt's role the last few years. Primarily pitched in the 7th inning, but on occassion depending on the situation pitched the 8th. That's where I see Hernandez.

Which, begs the question, could Betancourt be dealt? He is arby eligible, and the Indians do have a history of dealing arby guys whom they do not sign to long term deals....

Betancourt and Westbrook to ?? for ??

I now 100% officially believe this sport is off its rocker. Pierrer gets 5/45 and Matthews 5/55? Good Lord. $11M per for a career 4th OFer who is heading to his twilight years in his career? Signing worthwhile FAs for this team ever in the future is a pipedream. Part because of the owner, but part because of this whacked out situation baseball is in where average players now get $10M per.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. So, unless you are down with young players with potential and prospects, you might want to jump off the Tribe bandwagon because things in FA aren't changing anytime soon. Our only chance is trades going forward.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:38 pm

I still don't understand.

Shapiro said there was ~ $20 million to add to the payroll.
We saved $$$ by acquiring Barfield, saving about $4 mil pegged for 2nd base.
Now we should be looking at about $24 million in additions to last years team.
Take away a couple million for increases in 2006's payroll.
What are we spending the leftover money on? I sure hope Shapiro has a trick or two up his sleeve.
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Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:50 pm

Pup wrote:I still don't understand.

Shapiro said there was ~ $20 million to add to the payroll.
We saved $$$ by acquiring Barfield, saving about $4 mil pegged for 2nd base.
Now we should be looking at about $24 million in additions to last years team.
Take away a couple million for increases in 2006's payroll.
What are we spending the leftover money on? I sure hope Shapiro has a trick or two up his sleeve.


yeah but Shapiro isnt stupid enough to spend it all just cos he has the funds

he'll get exactly what we need and save some cash for a mid-season move to get us ahead in the division or to fill in for a player who might become injured or whatever.

he's clever like that
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:53 pm

Pup wrote:I still don't understand.

Shapiro said there was ~ $20 million to add to the payroll.
We saved $$$ by acquiring Barfield, saving about $4 mil pegged for 2nd base.
Now we should be looking at about $24 million in additions to last years team.
Take away a couple million for increases in 2006's payroll.
What are we spending the leftover money on? I sure hope Shapiro has a trick or two up his sleeve.


The problem is, what do you spend that $24M on? Right now, $24M gets you Gary Matthews Jr and a couple relievers. Gack!

Our problem is that there is no one out there to throw this money around to AND that we have 3-4 holes to fill. Which means, we can't get into the Soriano or whoever derby because doing so leaves virtually nothing left to address important needs (like the bullpen). Right now, the major hole on this team is the bullpen. The lineup is good whether we sign someone of significance or not.

All kinds of talk in Chicago of Cubs GM Hendy and Shapiro talking about a Westbrook trade. I am not sure I deal Westy unless Howry anb Eyre are included. RUmor is the SS Cedeno would be included....which makes me wonder if Shapiro considers flipping Peralta for a closer (Lidge?) or Garko for a closer (Street?).
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Unread postby The Score » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:56 pm

Also, that is $20 or so million for this year.

Shap knows that locking up money longterm and creating a big payroll next year or beyond will hamstring what he can do in the future.

He has to be extremely smart with that 20 million and fill a fair amount of holes. That 20 mill will also apply to anyone he brings in a trade too.
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Unread postby pup » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:16 pm

yeah but Shapiro isnt stupid enough to spend it all just cos he has the funds


What is he going to do with it then? There are players out there that make this team better. Go get them.

he'll get exactly what we need and save some cash for a mid-season move to get us ahead in the division


Just like in 2005, right?

he's clever like that


You must know something I don't. He had one good trading binge and is 2 for a lot more than 2 in free agent signings. Maybe it is time for him to move on, and take Wedge with him.

Our problem is that there is no one out there to throw this money around to AND that we have 3-4 holes to fill. Which means, we can't get into the Soriano or whoever derby because doing so leaves virtually nothing left to address important needs (like the bullpen). Right now, the major hole on this team is the bullpen. The lineup is good whether we sign someone of significance or not.


3 or 4 holes, all being the bullpen I assume. Well if we add $20 million to the payroll in the bullpen, I will be intrigued. This will be one hell of a trade, because with the FA relievers out there, that should be able to get you about 10 guys.
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Unread postby ACrank » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:38 pm

Fyi Pup - the info that the Indians offered Alou a better contract then the Mets came from CNNSi

and its that easy - just to get the players? LOL - sorry but you have an over simplistic view of things...
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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:24 am

and its that easy - just to get the players? LOL - sorry but you have an over simplistic view of things


When did I ever say it was easy? Or you have an over convaluted way of looking at things.

Moises Alou turned down multi year offers from several teams, but I could not find where it said the Indians were one of them. I can't fault Alou for taking a one year offer from the Mets. The NL is a joke and if you had to pick one team, today, to be in the World Series it would be the Mets. That is a pretty abnormal situation.

While on the subject of Alou. What do you think the baseball stories will be like in the Mets clubhouse, between Alou and Julio Franco? What haven't one of these two seen in a baseball game?
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:57 am

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/b ... index.html

The signing is something of a coup for the Mets, as the bidding was spirited for Alou, a career .301 hitter with a lifetime .516 slugging percentage. The Texas Rangers and Cleveland Indians are believed to have made two-year offers for more money.
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Unread postby consigliere » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:14 pm

Denver Post says we signed Hernandez

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_4744440
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