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A hodgepodge of Indians rumors

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A hodgepodge of Indians rumors

Unread postby consigliere » Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:01 pm

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindea ... xml&coll=2

Toronto's Justin Speier, one of the most sought-after relievers on the market, has apparently already swooped past the three-year, $12 million contract Bobby Howry signed with the Cubs last winter. The Indians couldn't afford to keep Howry, their last legitimate setup man, which means Speier is already out of reach.

"I think Danys (Baez) would have some interest in coming back to Cleveland," Parker said. "He wants to close and they need a closer."

Other closers on the market are Keith Foulke, Greg Gagne, Dustin Hermanson, Octavio Dotel and Joe Borowski. The only one who ended last season healthy was Borowski, who saved 36 games for Florida and is not expected to rejoin the Marlins.

"We're in on everybody," Shapiro said.


http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/16017242.htm

"I'm looking for a multi-year deal," Dellucci said, "and I'm looking for playing time. Those are two very important things."

Dellucci said 11 teams have contacted his agent. Among the suitors are the Cleveland Indians, Toronto Blue Jays, Tampa Bay Devil Rays and St. Louis Cardinals.


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story ... 6783c.html

Who'd have thought one of the most sought-after pitchers in this year's free agent market would be none other than 40-year-old ex-Yank and Met Mike Stanton? But after a renaissance season last year in which he led NL relievers with 82 appearances and had a 2.89 ERA after the All-Star break, Stanton is being pursued with two-year offers by the Tigers, Dodgers, Giants, Mariners, Nationals, Reds and Indians.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/colu ... 268.column

That's what makes this Marlins search for a center fielder (on a tight budget) so tricky.

It's not just a matter of swapping some excess pitching for an emerging outfielder with some speed, some sock and fewer than three years of service time.

The glove and the arm need to be there, too, in order to maximize the benefit of all that young pitching the organization has accumulated.

Lesser options include Chris Denorfia (Reds), Franklin Gutierrez (Indians), David Murphy (Red Sox) and Cory Sullivan (Rockies), although the latter two aren't much against lefties.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:18 pm

Please, no Baez as our closer. I would rather have Hafner close.

Delucci - former Phillie part timer looking for a full time gig. Tried it. Didn't like it. One Jason Michaels is enough.

Mike Stanton on a one year deal would be fine by me.

Maybe the Marlins would trade Tankersly for Gutierrez.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:10 pm

I like the possibility with Stanton....and I am fine with 2 years.

Franky G is not in the org's plans for 2007 and maybe not in the future either. Time to show him the door....if we can flip him for a decent bully pitcher I am fine with it.
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Unread postby consigliere » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:37 am

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindea ... xml&coll=2
General Manager Mark Shapiro is getting closer to adding the first pitcher in his attempt to repair the Indians' bullpen.

The general managers' meetings ended Thursday, but a wave of free-agent signings is expected to follow the busier-than-usual meetings. A mix of competition, anxiety and the start of the winter meetings on Dec. 3 should trigger it.

Shapiro is feeling the pull. He's been plotting for almost two months since the Tribe's disappointing fourth-place finish in the American League Central.

"It's a tenuous time of year," he said. "You think you're close to something, but the next morning it could be gone.

"I found myself rolling around at 4:30 this morning with some anxiety over the negotiations we've got going. You can feel good one day, and feel it slipping away the next."

Tribe fans probably felt much the same way watching Shapiro's bullpen in action last season.

"We've made some progress," said Shapiro. "But I don't feel like they're Indians yet. They haven't had their physicals and signed a letter of agreement."

Danys Baez and Joe Borowski are the Indians' best options for a closer. But it doesn't sound as if they're headed to Cleveland for a physical anytime soon.

Baez is reportedly looking for a three-year deal as a closer. He'd take less as a set-up man.

The Indians, who signed Baez in 1999 after he defected from Cuba, see him more as a set-up man, but aren't dealing from a position of strength since they have no closer right now.

Boston is also reportedly interested in Baez as a closer.

Borowski saved 36 games for Florida last year. Michael Maas, Borowski's agent, said he's talked to the Indians, but that "nothing is imminent."

Shapiro talked with agent Scott Boras on Wednesday night. Boras has outfielder J.D. Drew, who at one time was interested the Indians, but has since moved to a higher market.

"Scott has some relievers," said Shapiro. "It's safe to say we talked to him about those relievers."

Lefties Ron Villone and Scott Schoeneweis are Boras clients. The Indians could use one or two lefties.

The much-traveled Villone went 3-3 with a 5.04 ERA in 70 appearances for the Yankees. He pitched 80 1/3 innings.

Schoeneweis made 71 appearances with Toronto and Cincinnati. He had a 0.63 ERA in 16 appearances during the Reds' stretch run.

Jamie Walker, the Tribe's No. 1 left-handed target, reportedly signed a three-year, $12 million deal with Baltimore. The Indians talked to Walker about a two-year deal between $9 and $10 million, but thought three years was too long for a 35-year-old situational lefty.

Aaron Fultz and Alan Embree are two other lefties the Indians are interested in.

Borowski, 35, saved 33 games for the Cubs in 2003 before injuries hit in 2004 and 2005. He came back this year as a blue-light special closer for the Marlins.

It's unlikely the Indians would give him a three-year deal, but he has given them hope.

"A lot of teams have gone to spring training without a closer and figured it out," said manager Eric Wedge. "The Marlins found Joe Borowski. We have to look at every alternative available to us."

The flock of injured closers - Keith Foulke, Eric Gagne, Dustin Hermanson, Octavio Dotel and Eddie Guardado - aren't expected to draw the Tribe's interest for a while. If they did, it would have to be on a one-year deal.

The Indians, at the moment, will try to reinvent the bullpen through free agency. The trade market has proved thorny.
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Unread postby pup » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:52 am

Jamie Walker, the Tribe's No. 1 left-handed target, reportedly signed a three-year, $12 million deal with Baltimore. The Indians talked to Walker about a two-year deal between $9 and $10 million, but thought three years was too long for a 35-year-old situational lefty.



Shocker.
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Unread postby ACrank » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:16 am

you would have signed a 35 year old to a three year contract?

seems like something Baltimore would do...

The Indians were smart - offering more money for less years
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Unread postby pup » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:22 pm

Just stating that I am not surprised that we did not get one of our main free agent targets for whatever reason. It just seems odd to me that every year we just miss out for one reason or another.

you would have signed a 35 year old to a three year contract


He is a situational lefty, I think he can make it a couple more years. At the end of his 3-year deal, he will still be 2 years younger than the other left-hander getting a lot of love, Mike Stanton, is right now. At some point, you have to pay the asking price.
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Unread postby ACrank » Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:09 pm

Jamie Walker being one of the indians main free agent targets says a lot about the quality of the free agent arms out there....

the Indians are going to have to take on a contract they don't like, but still 3 years for Walker seems like a year and a half too long....
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:45 pm

Dwags chimed in today:

I was told the Tribe contacted Lee's agent and was told that he has at least 5 offers in the 5 yr, 75 mil range and that the Indians would have to top that to get into the mix. Also, the Tribe offered Moises Alou a guaranteed 2 year deal, but was told he wanted to stay in the national league.
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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:09 pm

Is Lee's request really surprising? He is the ONLY free agent outfielder out there at this point. This is what happens in free agency. I am pretty sure we all understand supply and demand.

All I can say is if Lee is going to get $15,000,000/year, then $18,000,000 for Soriano does not seem that bad.

Of course, the Cleveland Indians will continue trying to be the small market martyr, not pay for quality talent, and cry when they fall short of a title, whether it be division, league or World Series. They have a built in crutch and are more than happy to use it.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:28 pm

Just depends on your outlook.

There is very limited "quality talent" available in FA. Most of it is average talent that is severely overpaid. THe only quality guys in FA get ridiculous deals. I just never have hinged my hopes on what the Indians do in FA....ever.

I still believe that most of the "quality" comes from tactful trades and from within (i.e. your farm system).
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Unread postby pup » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:48 pm

Consig...I agree 100%, except for the FA point. It is a blend of the 3 ways you have to acquire talent that makes a team. We have done very good with the
tactful trades
and the
from within (i.e. your farm system).
Now what needs to happen is you augment those two area and fill in the void through FA.

We are going into a season counting on 2 guys with 186, and 221 at bats to be our right handed power. Throw in Casey Blake if you have to, but that is not going to get it done.

We have money, but we don't spend money. Even the most optimistic of the Dolan Deciples have to start shaking your head at some point.

There is very limited "quality talent" available in FA


So why do we overpay for the marginal guys, but we won't overpay for the "quality talent"?
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:13 pm

So why do we overpay for the marginal guys, but we won't overpay for the "quality talent"?


Two things: those "marginal" players have no other choice :D and also when dealing with marginal players you are not in a bidding war with the big boys who are all after the top shelf guys.

Let me add that I believe FA to be the least important of the three. I agree that signing FAs to fill gaps/holes is key.....but I look for the right guys. I like the 1-2 year deals, because long term I'd rather open the spot up for the next crop of young players when they are ready.
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Unread postby ACrank » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:17 pm

There is only one time that i know of that the Indians were in a bidding war for a free agent.

Was when they finished second in the running to sign James Catfish Hunter....

I suspect most of the people on this board weren't even born then.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:24 pm

Yes, even in the 90s the Indians never really signed marque guys heading for or in the prime of their careers. Mostly always signed guys still productive but in the twlight of their career. The only two marque guys they signed were Lofton and Alomar, and both came on a discount. Lofton turned down 5 years $40M+ from the Brewers to come back here for 3/24. And, Alomar turned down more money to come here to play with his brother and win.
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Unread postby ACrank » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:41 pm

Thats the whole thing that gets me about the Dolan IACF idea (i love that from the OBR board btw) is that most people look at the Indians lack of success in the FA market and blame it all on Dolan. Not saying he shouldn't be blamed somewhat, but the truth is, as you stated Tom Hagen (i love the Godfather movies and cant spell Consiglore to save my life - thank god you didnt pick the name Genco Abbadondo) , the Indians just have not gone after big time free agents - and that goes back to the time of Jacobs where they had all the money in the world and didn't do it (other than the times you mentioned).

What bothers me is that there are fans who really seem to want to see a free agent signing just for the sake of a free agent signing. I'd love to see the Indians sign someone, but its got to be the right player, and so far there really haven't been any where i've felt - yeah the Indians should have done that... (Gary Matthews, Jr - 5 years/50 million - yeah that almost makes Soriano's contract into a damn bargain - says something, doesn't it?)
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Unread postby pup » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:39 am

What bothers me is that there are fans who really seem to want to see a free agent signing just for the sake of a free agent signing.


Not sure if you include me in that, but I figure I will answer as though you were. I have not advocated signing anyone, just to say we did. I think there are some holes in this offense (at least some potential holes). We are not going to improve our starting pitching. The 5 that are hear will be the five in April (without a Jake trade). Cross that off the list. While our bullpen was atrocious, I don't know that there are people available that can be counted on to be any better than what we have. So why wouldn't spend the money we have on an area of need, when there are players available. There is, as of today, a huge right handed power hitting hole in the middle of our lineup. If you are totally convinced that Garko/Blake or Marte will handle that role, then that is the crux of our discussion. I am worried about that.
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Unread postby Guest » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:15 am

If you have a chance to make an upgrade why the hell wouldn't you?
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Unread postby pup » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:21 am

If you have a chance to make an upgrade why the hell wouldn't you?


That my friends is the $18,000,000 question. Here are the answers:

1. Cleveland is a shitty town, with shitty weather and shitty taxes, so noone would ever sign here.
2. It is not an imporvement if the guy has never won a Nobel Piece Prize for Humanity, no matter how many times he goes 40/40 with 20 OF assists.
3. Money keeps Dolan warm at night.
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Unread postby ACrank » Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:38 am

Give me a player who plays instead of one who sits on his potential and does squat.

But here is the issue - lets take Soriano - he signed for $18 million a year for 8 years with the Cubs - is there anything that makes anyone believe if the Indians were (foolish enough) to offer the same contract he would take it?
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