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Is there any chance for the playoffs?

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Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:49 am

After last night's devastating loss to the Royals in 14 innings, I'm wondering if the Indians really have any chance to make a run at a playoff spot. After coming out of the break with a 3-1 series win on the road over the Tigers, things were looking up, but now they've lost 3 of 4 to the Twins and Royals - teams they need to beat. They still show no indication they can beat left-handed pitching. Last night they were held scoreless by Royals' lefties for 11.2 innings.

The game before they scored 1 run in 9 innings off the Twins' bullpen that was pressed into action when the starter couldn't go.

At this point I don't see how the Indians can get any traction. They're plodding along at .500, but they can't get a winning streak going because they can always be shut down by left-handed pitching. Teams are using every lefty in their bullpen when they play the Tribe.

Last night Tribe hitters struck out 15 times, including 7 times in the last five innings. Once a Tribe hitter got two strikes on him it was all over. They swung at anything within reach, and a few pitches that weren't. All the Royals' pitchers had to do was throw a fastball at the letters or a breaking ball in the dirt and it was Strike Three. Swisher and Gomes were the biggest offenders, although I have to give Gomes props for a huge hit that only extended the agony for five innings.

In 14 innings I only saw the Royals hit one ball hard - a line drive to Murphy. They're the most inept offense in baseball. Both runs scored on bloops down the left field line. I've been watching baseball for 50 years and I've never seen a play like the one Raburn made to lose the game after botching the catch. Just pick up the ball and lob it to the infielder. He had no chance to get Moustakis at second and he wasn't trying for third. What the hell was he doing?

It's time to pull the plug on Raburn and on the right-handed version of Swisher. Bring up Holt and/or Aguilar. We're spinning our wheels. Tito is extremely loyal to his veterans but they're letting him down. And Kipnis is playing injured and is a shadow of his normal self. He admitted he's changed his swing, and it shows. He can't catch up to the high heat and pitchers are abusing him.

Something has to be done before it's too late. If it's not already.

Edit:

Swisher is hitting .156 as a right-handed hitter, with a slugging percentage of .198!!! It's like having a pitcher bat!!! And this guy is our DH!!!!

Even as a lefty his OPS is only .698 - not horrible but less than you need from a 1st baseman/DH.

Swisher should not face another lefty the rest of the year. And he shouldn't play 1st base - his defense there has been nothing short of embarassing. Let him DH against right-handed pitching, and nothing else. Just focus on hitting left-handed, which is the one area he hasn't totally embarrassed himself this year.

I love Swish and his Brohio thing, but face it, he can't hit right-handed, he's incompetent in the field, and he clogs up the bases on those rare occasions when he gets on. It's looking like that contract was a mistake, unfortunately.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:40 am

Tribe is a .500 team, and will be, until the Dolans die or sell. They apparently never heard the old saying, "You gotta to spend money to make money." Or, "Build it and they will come."

When the Tribe was riding high in the middle to late 1990s under Dick Jacobs and drawing 42,000, I attended a minimum of 10 games a year. It was fun and exciting watching all the superstars come from 9-2 or 7-0 deficits to win games with a brutal display of power -- night after night, day after day. I now attend one, maybe two, games a year, and the most exciting things I've seen lately are the Condiment Races.

Forever mediocre. :gah:
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:52 am

They're a mediocre team. Not much more to say.

Their big money signings are complimentary players on good teams at best and yet that's $30million tied up in Swisher and Bourn. Worst of it being Bourn's game is his legs and those are going.

They're lucky as hell Kluber has developed into a true ace but there's nothing behind him that I have much faith in.

Chisenhall is returning to a longer swing and some bad habits, Kipnis has been hurt and mediocre, etc.

They are what they are.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby gotribe31 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:54 am

jerryroche wrote:Tribe is a .500 team, and will be, until the Dolans die or sell. They apparently never heard the old saying, "You gotta to spend money to make money." Or, "Build it and they will come."

When the Tribe was riding high in the middle to late 1990s under Dick Jacobs and drawing 42,000, I attended a minimum of 10 games a year. It was fun and exciting watching all the superstars come from 9-2 or 7-0 deficits to win games with a brutal display of power -- night after night, day after day. I now attend one, maybe two, games a year, and the most exciting things I've seen lately are the Condiment Races.

Forever mediocre. :gah:


I can't tell if this is serious or not, but I guess I'll bite.

Are you asking the Dolan's (or your mythical new owner who can't wait to deficit spend on his/her new asset) to build a new stadium and get the Browns to leave town again? Or to splurge in free agency, which is very, very clearly the absolute worst and least efficient way to build a team?

You know those mid-90's teams were built primarily through the draft (Manny, Thome, Belle, Nagy) and shrewd trades for other club's youngsters (Lofton, Baerga, Vizquel, Alomar), right?
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:59 am

Al, you see them dealing Asdrubal before the deadline (if the back is healthy)?

See them dealing in general?
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby gotribe31 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:28 am

peeker643 wrote:Al, you see them dealing Asdrubal before the deadline (if the back is healthy)?

See them dealing in general?


I think they'll try, but I think they've been trying for the last 2+ years with no success. The question for me is whether or not he'll be worth the QO after the season. Seems crazy, but a legit, MLB SS is a valuable enough commodity that you could see them risking it. He'll get a multi-year deal from someone (see Peralta, Jhonny), so I can see him turning it down if he's healthy.

Maybe a small deal or two, but I don't see anything major on the horizon. I've been wrong before of course, but they don't really have payroll flexibility to take on a bad contract and their chips are either too valuable to deal (Lindor) or not valuable enough (Naquin). Guys like Naquin, Erik Gonzalez, Cody Anderson and their cadre of relief arms could be legit big leaguers, but not guys who will headline a major trade. They're in a tough spot right now with their roster...not quite good enough to be a serious pennant contender but not bad enough to blow it up either.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:19 pm

No way, and getting a Wild Card isn't what I would call the playoffs anyway. Kazmir and Harang might have helped us be a little closer.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby jerryroche » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:09 pm

gotribe31 wrote:I can't tell if this is serious or not, but I guess I'll bite.

Are you asking the Dolan's (or your mythical new owner who can't wait to deficit spend on his/her new asset) to build a new stadium and get the Browns to leave town again? Or to splurge in free agency, which is very, very clearly the absolute worst and least efficient way to build a team?

You know those mid-90's teams were built primarily through the draft (Manny, Thome, Belle, Nagy) and shrewd trades for other club's youngsters (Lofton, Baerga, Vizquel, Alomar), right?

Didn't necessarily mean free agency. I'm not smart enough to be able to tell my fantasy owner how to build a team, but it's for sure that it will require a greater investment than the Dolans are willing to make.

You can use a 20-year-old stadium or the Cleveland Browns as excuses for the Tribe never going for the gold, but even in old Municipal Stadium and even with the Browns still in town, the Tribe would have averaged 40,000 in the years 1994-1999. Guaranteed.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:44 pm

Last year Ubaldo and Kazmir caught fire the second half and the rest of the team followed, aided by a really easy schedule.

Their only chance this year is for something similar to happen. Kluber is looking like he could replicate Ubaldo's late-season heroics. Bauer has been very consistent in going 6-7 innings and holding the opponents to 3 or fewer runs, which is an Indians win 85% of the time. We need Masterson and Salazar to bust out and finish strong, and either McAllister or Tomlin to do a decent job as the 5th starter.

With the lineup, it's time to cut bait on Raburn. He still isn't hitting. He's replicating his 2012 season that got him cut by the Tigers. And they can't keep letting Swisher hit .156, almost all singles, as a right-handed hitting DH/1B.

It's going to take a number of things to go right for the Tribe to have a shot, and it's mostly the starting pitching.

They don't have the spare assets to trade for a major player, and no minor deal is going to turn things around. It's pretty much all on Bauer, Salazar, and Masterson to step up - if they can.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:56 am

Slip sliding away....Indians lost 5 of last 6.

Swisher 0-for-14, Kipnis 2-for-22, and Brantley went 0-for-16 thanks to some line drives right at people and a couple of diving catches.

The loss and ineffectivenessof Masterson and McAllister to injury for much of the season has been especially damaging because Tomlin and House are just not quite good enough to win consistently.

Raburn at .199, Swisher at .208, Kipnis playing hurt and underperforming, Cabrera hitting under .100 with RISP and two out, Bourn underperforming, and the team as a whole unable to hit left-handed pitching. And Chisenhall has been a non-factor the last six weeks.

I think there are just too many problems to fix in the next couple of weeks, and that's about all the time they have to turn it around.

Things were looking great after those three wins against Detroit, but it fell apart quickly. This last week could go down as the turning point of the season.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby 1Perry » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:39 pm

I get the feeling that Swisher is more interested in being a television personality now. It's interesting that the Phillies would bench Howard and he is having a good year compared to Swisher.

They seem pretty content in being what they are. A .500 team.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:58 pm

The ONLY chance they have is the Tiger's bullpen.

It's awful hard to win a division without a decent one anymore.

That being said, I agree with Peeker. Definition of mediocre. In players and performance.

God, they've got some bad hitters at positions where you are supposed to H-I-T.

And I'm also not sure how much you'll be able to count on a guy like Bauer as the season wears on - and he's been one of the few bright spots.

But we got Francona !
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:48 pm

We all know how bad this lineup is, but just look at it and let it sink in and then you'll wonder why we're even debating this question:

Kipnis-2B Dickerson-LF Brantley-CF Santana-1B Chisenhall-3B Swisher-DH Murphy-RF Gomes-C Ramirez-SS
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Am I Here Again? » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:31 pm

As my wise Mom would say: Slim to none, and Slip left town. Sad, because I was really looking forward to this season...in February. *sigh*
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:35 pm

Stick a fork in 'em. Six losses in seven games. McAllister blows a 5-0 lead with some help from a Gomes passed ball and then Francona leaving Hagadone in to pitch to Billy Butler with a man on. What the hell was he thinking? Hags is the worst pitcher in the bigs, and his only chance for any success is against lefties. His fastball is as straight as an arrow and a guy like Butler, who hammered a straight fastball from Axford 420 feet last night, is going to do the same thing to a Hagadone fastball.

And he did.

McAllister has no chance of ever being an effective big league starter until he develops an effective secondary pitch. He can't just keep throwing 70% fastballs. Yeah, the Royals got a couple of lucky bloops to drop in during their big inning, but McAllister needs a second pitch. If I were him, I'd spend the entire off-season in Florida doing nothing but throwing changeups and sliders. Or go play winter ball and throw nothing but breaking stuff. His career is at a crossroads.

Swisher is helpless at the plate. My God, is he having an awful season. He's 0-for-18. So are Raburn and Cabrera.

Time to start focusing on the Browns.

Edit:

Zack Meisel had a good piece in the PD on last night's game, where he pointed out how McAllister's near-total reliance on the fastball is not working for him. On the key at-bat of the game he threw six straight fastballs to Aoki and got burned by a two-run triple. Even Rick Manning was saying that if he kept throwing nothing but inside fastballs the hitter will adjust.

Batters are hitting .300 against him the third time through the lineup. He either needs to commit to developing a major league breaking ball or go to the bullpen. Or be a AAA starter who fills in as an injury replacement, like House. That should really be Tomlin's role as well.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby scrambler » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:42 am

OF course there's a chance. Right now they stand 4 games back of the second wild card slot. On September 1st last year they stood 4.5 games back of the second wild card slot. They made it last year. I don't consider any of the teams ahead of them for that second wild card great teams.....Toronto, Kansas City, Seattle, New York. 4 games in two months is certainly not insurmountable. It's not a great chance....but neither was last year. Weird things must happen....like the strange occurrence of Jimenez becoming unhittable in September last year....who could possibly forecast that? They went 21-6 in September with their number 1 starter pitching 4.2 total innings during the month. I saw weird things last year. I am nowhere near counting them out yet.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby scrambler » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:45 am

TouchEmAllTime wrote:We all know how bad this lineup is, but just look at it and let it sink in and then you'll wonder why we're even debating this question:

Kipnis-2B Dickerson-LF Brantley-CF Santana-1B Chisenhall-3B Swisher-DH Murphy-RF Gomes-C Ramirez-SS


You honestly type that when they're 5th in the league in runs scored??? I find that weird. The problem with this team is not their lineup but their starting pitching. IN all honesty the offense has been fine. The bullpen has been fine. THe starting pitching has not been fine outside of one guy.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby 1Perry » Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:42 am

Being last in the league in defense isn't helping. Two errors last night even after getting rid of Cabrera. Luckily it didn't hurt against a bad team.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby scrambler » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:02 pm

Here's my own personal opinion of them offensively...as I said 5th in league in scoring. 1st in league in scoring 7th inning on. Individually here's how I see it:


Performing above expectations: Brantley, Chisenhall, Gomes (catchers)

we all knew Brantley was good, he's become a star offensive player this year, one of best in league. Lonnie's struggled recently, but based on what I saw his callups the last several years, I was not expecting over .300 and .900 OPS. Gomes played well last year, I had no clue what he'd do with 500 at bats.

Performing as expected: Santana, Murphy, Bourn (Morgan-Dickerson), Aviles, Cabrera (before he left),

all of these guys are pretty much right on with what you'd expect from them offensively...some may argue Santana has not been good, but that's ridiculous.

Performing worse than expected: Kipnis, Swisher, Raburn (not full time player).

Kipnis biggest disappointment because he's still young....Swisher bad. Raburn simply coming back to earth from his way above par season last year.

for most teams you can't expect way above expectation seasons from everybody...and you have to expect sub par years from some as well. Looking at the team as a whole, I see no way you can complain about what they've done offensively this year. Yeah, it would be nice if Swisher didn't stink this year and Kipnis would be last year's version, but overall no, it's been fine.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby peeker643 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:41 pm

scrambler wrote:
TouchEmAllTime wrote:We all know how bad this lineup is, but just look at it and let it sink in and then you'll wonder why we're even debating this question:

Kipnis-2B Dickerson-LF Brantley-CF Santana-1B Chisenhall-3B Swisher-DH Murphy-RF Gomes-C Ramirez-SS


You honestly type that when they're 5th in the league in runs scored??? I find that weird. The problem with this team is not their lineup but their starting pitching. IN all honesty the offense has been fine. The bullpen has been fine. THe starting pitching has not been fine outside of one guy.


The Indians as a team have an ERA under 3.00 since middle of June.

Just sayin... And since beginning of June Chisenhall is hitting about .210

$30million between Swisher and Bourn, both underperforming, to put it kindly. Chisenhall ~200 since June, Kipnis doing nothing, Raburn having his normal "even year" year, Santana struggling for the first three months, carrying a 45 yr old designated hitter, etc.

This team simply isn't very good. And that's with Allen rescuing the closer spot and a bullpen that's been outstanding and getting more from Kluber than anyone could reasonably expect.

They're exactly where they should be: mediocre and .500
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby scrambler » Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:02 pm

peeker643 wrote:
scrambler wrote:
TouchEmAllTime wrote:We all know how bad this lineup is, but just look at it and let it sink in and then you'll wonder why we're even debating this question:

Kipnis-2B Dickerson-LF Brantley-CF Santana-1B Chisenhall-3B Swisher-DH Murphy-RF Gomes-C Ramirez-SS


You honestly type that when they're 5th in the league in runs scored??? I find that weird. The problem with this team is not their lineup but their starting pitching. IN all honesty the offense has been fine. The bullpen has been fine. THe starting pitching has not been fine outside of one guy.


The Indians as a team have an ERA under 3.00 since middle of June.

Just sayin... And since beginning of June Chisenhall is hitting about .210

$30million between Swisher and Bourn, both underperforming, to put it kindly. Chisenhall ~200 since June, Kipnis doing nothing, Raburn having his normal "even year" year, Santana struggling for the first three months, carrying a 45 yr old designated hitter, etc.

This team simply isn't very good. And that's with Allen rescuing the closer spot and a bullpen that's been outstanding and getting more from Kluber than anyone could reasonably expect.

They're exactly where they should be: mediocre and .500


Yes, I agree, mediocre, and there's still two months left. May through today they are 44-38, so for over 3 months they have actually been better than average or mediocre. As I said after they went 12-16 last August and Masterson got hurt the first of September I gave them zero chance. They still have a chance in my opinion. I honestly don't think the teams fighting with them for 2nd wild card slot are much better than mediocre either.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:21 am

After sweeping Texas (the worst team in baseball) they're only 3 games out of the wild card, so yes, there is a chance. Especially since they have more home than road games left.

However, we won't be getting any help from Masterson, and McAllister has been sent down, leaving a rotation of Kluber, Bauer, Salazar, Tomlin, and House. I'm not sure that's going to get it done.

The defense has improved dramatically. Chisenhall has steadied out at 3rd and the Aviles/Ramirez combination is a big improvement over Asdrubal at short. Swisher is no longer butchering ground balls and dropping routine throws at first (because he's strictly a DH now). Santana is doing a great job with the glove. The infield defense actually looks decent. They even worked a rare 4-6-5 double play last night.

Gomes and Perez have totally shut down the opponent's running game.

They're still an average team, but average may be good enough. Let's see what they do against better competition than the Rangers, though. Wasn't it just last week that they struggled against Minny and Seattle?

They still have 9 games against Minny, 6 against KC and Chicago, and 4 against Detroit - all teams they have done badly against.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:39 am

An 88 win team should be good enough to take the 2nd wild card spot this year IMO. (Toronto currently holds that spot and is on an 86 win pace.) That would require the Indians to go 31-20 in their remaining games, which would be a .607 clip. Those 51 games take place against the following slate of teams:

Good teams (8 home, 3 road):
Baltimore 3
Detroit 7
LAA 1

Average teams (8 home, 8 road):
Cincy 4
Yankees 3
KC 6
TB 3

Bad teams (11 home, 13 road):
Arizona 2
Houston 7
CWS 6
Minnesota 9

They've got 24 games left in August, and I can see them going on a nice 15-9 run in that time to really pull in to contention... only to start September with 4 straight losses to the Tigers at home to officially crush any hope.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby 1Perry » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:55 am

They have actually done well against the Tigers this year.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:15 pm

1Perry wrote:They have actually done well against the Tigers this year.


And 16-20 against the shitty AL Central teams.

The teams fighting for WC2 aren't world beaters and I suppose the Indians could grab that spot.

But I wouldn't count on it. Not unless Bourn, Kipnis and Swisher get their heads out of their asses.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby 1Perry » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:29 pm

peeker643 wrote:
1Perry wrote:They have actually done well against the Tigers this year.


And 16-20 against the shitty AL Central teams.

The teams fighting for WC2 aren't world beaters and I suppose the Indians could grab that spot.

But I wouldn't count on it. Not unless Bourn, Kipnis and Swisher get their heads out of their asses.


I'm wondering if Bourn will even play more than a limited role the rest of the year.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby 1Perry » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:55 pm

Prosecutor wrote:The defense has improved dramatically.


Dramatically was obviously wishful thinking.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby WiscTribeFan » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:40 am

1Perry wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
1Perry wrote:They have actually done well against the Tigers this year.


And 16-20 against the shitty AL Central teams.

The teams fighting for WC2 aren't world beaters and I suppose the Indians could grab that spot.

But I wouldn't count on it. Not unless Bourn, Kipnis and Swisher get their heads out of their asses.


I'm wondering if Bourn will even play more than a limited role the rest of his career.


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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:06 am

Kluber is just insane right now, 3rd best pitcher in the AL this year.

Hoping one of Bauer and Salazar catch fire and we can ride Kluber to a WC spot. Who knows what happens from there.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:52 am

I say we still have just as much as a shot today as we did before the Masterson/Cabrera trades. Those two were doing nothing for us this season, so it hardly counts as a "white flag" move as I hear some people attempt to spin it. Supposedly, Antonetti was hard at work trying to accomplish a trade for a starting pitcher at the deadline, but ran out of time. (I believe that...it makes sense in the context of the trades he did pull off, acquiring more depth). It'd be interesting to know who he was talking to and about what, but I suppose they'll revisit those talks in the offseason. In the meantime, let's just hope Kluber's arm doesn't fall off as we attempt to ride it into the playoffs.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:00 pm

Its not like he's throwing 130 pitches a game or pitching on short rest. He averages right around 100 pitches per. No reason to suspect his arm will fall off.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:31 pm

Four wins in a row. Every time the Tribe gets a little win streak going they turn around and lose a few. At this point they need to get hot for more than just a few days against a bad team.

JRam may actually be an upgrade over Asdrubal, both in the field and at bat, although he did make two errors last night (only one was official). And House is an upgrade over Masterson and his 5.9 something ERA.

The injury to Swisher's wrist also helps, no matter who they replace him with. On the downside, Bourn is getting ready to start his rehab assignment.

Last night they put up 5 runs in 5 innings against a very good pitcher. That's about what it will take from here on out. The middle of the order with Brantley, Santana, Chiz, Murphy and Gomes is looking pretty good right now. Gomes hit .329 in July with 17 RBI and is 3-for-8 so far in August. Not bad for a catcher.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Adverb Harry » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:28 pm

CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07! wrote:Its not like he's throwing 130 pitches a game or pitching on short rest. He averages right around 100 pitches per. No reason to suspect his arm will fall off.


I know. I meant that an injury to him would be catastrophic to this team.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:15 am

Tomlin's ERA is 7.09 in his last five starts. Last night he gave up a 3-run homer to the #9 hitter, a guy with 4 home runs in 220 games. That home run basically ended the game in the 2nd inning.

Tomlin has given up 17 HR's this year. His stuff is so marginal that if he misses his location even a weak hitter can take him deep. And nobody can pitch seven innings without missing on a few pitches.

With Tomlin and McAllister pitching at a AA level, the Indians are in bad shape even with the offense and defense improved over the first half. At this point we have Kluber, Bauer, and Salazar pitching well and House pitching mediocre with nobody for the 5th starter. Tito hinted that Carrasco will get Tomlin's next start. The next day is an off day, so they could shoot for Carrasco to go five innings and turn it over to the BP from there.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby pod2dawg » Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:54 am

Pros, ( love your stuff by the way, always) your saying, we're in the fight of our life for that second wildcard spot...?
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Prosecutor » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:21 pm

pod2dawg wrote:Pros, ( love your stuff by the way, always) your saying, we're in the fight of our life for that second wildcard spot...?


Thanks. Well, at the moment we're 2.5 games out of the second wild card spot with 49 games to play, so yeah, we're in a fight with three other teams for that spot.

What I don't know is if we can put together enough wins to finish ahead of those teams. With McAllister in Columbus trying to fix his mechanics, Tomlin ineffective in his last five starts and getting lit up by a weak hitting team last night, and with Masterson gone, I don't see how we can get any traction. I think it's going to be win a couple, lose a couple the rest of the season, just like it's been all year.

If McAllister quickly figures out how to locate his fastball and get his breaking ball over, and if they give Carrasco a shot at starting and he lights it up, then we could get in. I just don't see that happening.

Or maybe Bauer and Salazar sell their souls and turn into Ubaldo and Kazmir v. 2013.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby scrambler » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:40 pm

In the end, I think everyone has said they are who we think they are! A .500 team, that's what they are. I will always say they have a "chance"

"until the mathematicians say we don't"--Sam Rutigliano.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby Spin » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:31 pm

All of these deals for minor league talent, and they haven't done a thing to fill the biggest need on this team.

A fuckin infield coach. Holy shit I've been on softball teams that can make a throw more often than this team.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:22 am

scrambler wrote:In the end, I think everyone has said they are who we think they are! A .500 team, that's what they are. I will always say they have a "chance"

"until the mathematicians say we don't"--Sam Rutigliano.


Until the Reds and their pile of dogshit lineup take us behind the woodshed and emasculate us.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby peeker643 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:43 am

Yeah.... someone please tell me how much heart and no quit these guys have in them the next time they win three in a row to break a four game losing streak.

Also like to suggest to the Tribe's marketing arm that they reconsider the whole "Bro-hio" thing before it becomes a regional or national joke as opposed to just a local one.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:15 am

Francona will turn this around.

We got Francona!!!

By the way, this is about the time another vote for "most annoying player ever" will be cast by a Swisher teammate. For Christ sake, it's one thing to put up with the "bro" shit from a grown man when things are going alright, but in the dog days of summer - if you're struggling, the team's struggling, and some guy at the Mendoza line is constantly "Broing you down" (As a former annoyed Swisher teammate put it) you are about ready to kill the guy.

Blow-hio.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby justmebd » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:16 am

I don't remember if I said it here, so I'll repeat it: Terry Francona was a big part of the Indians short-lived playoff run last year. He willed that team to it's one postseason game IMO.

Not going to happen two years in a row with cheap owners and a front office that's more concerned with winning meaningless MLB Front Office honors than talking said cheapass owners into actually fielding a winning team.

"We're the best run mid-market team in the league" is the kind of BS I hear coming from that shitstain Shapiro on a regular basis. Who gives a fuck? Where's our ring?

This front office has been completely incapable of drafting and developing talent with any kind of consistency. The 90's Front Office did that in spades. I'm not sure Shapiro and Antonetti know the difference between sabremetrics and a hot dog.

I get it, the Dolans aren't going to pay Cy Young award winners. So guess what, the fans will hate you and stop attending games. Like has been stated in this thread before, spend money to make money you twats.

If The Klubes pitches his way to a Cy Young, the Dolans have two choices, pay him or sell the team. If they just go out and trade him like they did C.C. and Lee, I don't give two shits about their bold new stadium renovation, the attendance will continue to drop. Especially if you get the kind of return those two trades brought in (Not much).
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby pod2dawg » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:28 am

I once watched C.C. Sabathia square off with Cliff Lee in the World Series........it hurt.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby scrambler » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:28 am

TouchEmAllTime wrote:
scrambler wrote:In the end, I think everyone has said they are who we think they are! A .500 team, that's what they are. I will always say they have a "chance"

"until the mathematicians say we don't"--Sam Rutigliano.


Until the Reds and their pile of dogshit lineup take us behind the woodshed and emasculate us.



No one has everything. They still sent out Simon, Cueto, Latos, and Bailey in a 4 game series. Those are not easy wins no matter who is in their lineup. You need close to a shutout to beat them. We have only one starting pitcher who can do that.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby scrambler » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:39 am

justmebd wrote:Especially if you get the kind of return those two trades brought in (Not much).


Am I missing something? I look at numbers and it appears to me Brantley is one of the best players in baseball this year. Or am I wrong on that? He is by astronomical margins the best player on the team. We did hit on the return for Sabathia as much as you pretend we didn't. the return for Lee was (not much) I agree, but I think the return for Westbrook more than balances the return for Lee. The return for Westbrook was pretty much someone Lee-like.

WE can all make up whatever we want to make up to support whatever position we want to support.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby justmebd » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:29 pm

scrambler wrote:
justmebd wrote:Especially if you get the kind of return those two trades brought in (Not much).


Am I missing something? I look at numbers and it appears to me Brantley is one of the best players in baseball this year. Or am I wrong on that? He is by astronomical margins the best player on the team. We did hit on the return for Sabathia as much as you pretend we didn't. the return for Lee was (not much) I agree, but I think the return for Westbrook more than balances the return for Lee. The return for Westbrook was pretty much someone Lee-like.

WE can all make up whatever we want to make up to support whatever position we want to support.

I'm not making anything up. In my mind, trading a Cy Young award winner should have brought immediate returns (As in within a year or two MAX) to the mound and/or bullpen. This is a position I have never wavered on and I realize a lot of people disagree with me. It's how I feel. The C.C. trade was ok but not great. In my mind, the Lee trade was a capital offense.

Brantley is great, not arguing that. What would you rather have, Brantley? Or a World Series? A better front office would've gotten this team more chances to win. Shapiro and Antonetti are content to be mediocre and blame it on the system so fuck them.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby scrambler » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:09 pm

At this second I'd much rather have Brantley than Sabathia. IN October 2007 most people on this board were hating Sabathia. You act like keeping Sabathia or Lee or even both of them means we win the Wold Series. I honestly can't agree with that. We had both Lee and Sabathia for more than half of 2008....the Cy Young Lee, how'd that season go for the team?? We don't even make the playoffs in 2008 with Cy Young Lee and Sabathia around the entire year if we didn't trade Sabathia. How we winning a ring in '08 if we don't even make the playoffs?? Yes, the Lee trade wasn't good, but I actually still have faint hope for Carasco. He's pitched well in the bullpen as I have mentioned numerous times. AT this point, I'd even try him starting again as what we have now after Kluber is pretty atrocious outside of an average Bauer.

But then, I'm a Cleveland fan. I think we have way under 2 percent chance to win a NBA title in this second LeBron go round.
Last edited by scrambler on Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:10 pm

justmebd wrote:
scrambler wrote:
justmebd wrote:Especially if you get the kind of return those two trades brought in (Not much).


Am I missing something? I look at numbers and it appears to me Brantley is one of the best players in baseball this year. Or am I wrong on that? He is by astronomical margins the best player on the team. We did hit on the return for Sabathia as much as you pretend we didn't. the return for Lee was (not much) I agree, but I think the return for Westbrook more than balances the return for Lee. The return for Westbrook was pretty much someone Lee-like.

WE can all make up whatever we want to make up to support whatever position we want to support.

I'm not making anything up. In my mind, trading a Cy Young award winner should have brought immediate returns (As in within a year or two MAX) to the mound and/or bullpen. This is a position I have never wavered on and I realize a lot of people disagree with me. It's how I feel. The C.C. trade was ok but not great. In my mind, the Lee trade was a capital offense.

Brantley is great, not arguing that. What would you rather have, Brantley? Or a World Series? A better front office would've gotten this team more chances to win. Shapiro and Antonetti are content to be mediocre and blame it on the system so fuck them.


I tend to agree with you. Houston fleeced Philly in the Hunter Pence trade, acquiring three guys who were in the starting lineup/rotation, one of which was traded to Miami for a top prospect bat, but yet we didn't get anything from Philly for a more prominent (at the time) player in Lee.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby 1Perry » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:40 pm

Hindsight and all but with one move the team would likely be a real wild card threat. If they had signed Kazmir.
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Re: Is there any chance for the playoffs?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:39 pm

1Perry wrote:Hindsight and all but with one move the team would likely be a real wild card threat. If they had signed Kazmir.


On the other hand they could have thrown their lot back in with Ubaldo
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