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Manziel

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Manziel

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:32 pm

So if you consider Jaworski's comments on JFF yesterday we have the determination that the kid is worth somewhere between the 1st overall pick and the 130th pick in the draft.

So that helps.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Larvell Blanks » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:37 pm

^however, if you pick him at 4, per Chuck Booms, you're guaranteed 6 nationally televised games. Not sure if you get more wins but who can pass up those tv games where the nation gets you under a microscope
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:31 pm

Is AJ Mcarron appreciably less talented than Blake Bortles? I don't think so. Better than Carr in my opinion. Take McCarron in the 3rd and get some studs at 4 and 22.

I would seriously consider Manziel/Bridgewater at 4, but not lose sleep over it. Watkins will be there and is a good pick.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:27 pm

But I heard this week that Johnny Manziel's hands were bigger than previously thought?

Combine week is the most ridiculous week in sports - In a calendar with a lot of em'.

And I don't want AJ McCarron anywhere near camp. Let em' hang out with Colt.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:44 pm

I like Jaws. I like how his greatest fear with Manziel was "the one and run", meaning that during his entire life JFF has looked at one receiver and if that guys wasn't open it was time to hit the bricks, get outside the pocket, maybe try and move down the field.

Interestingly, Jaws also talked about the major decline in zone-read plays NFL QBs ran this past season. Appears it wasn't the revolutionary scheme that we may have thought it was going to be.

Probably a thread or two here that touched on that.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:46 pm

leadpipe wrote:Combine week is the most ridiculous week in sports - In a calendar with a lot of em'.



I think SVP recommended that the Combine simply change it's name to the "Are You Fast" event.

I imagine there's useful to be gleaned from other activities and especially the interviews, but "Are You Fast" about sums it up.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:50 pm

peeker643 wrote:I like Jaws. I like how his greatest fear with Manziel was "the one and run", meaning that during his entire life JFF has looked at one receiver and if that guys wasn't open it was time to hit the bricks, get outside the pocket, maybe try and move down the field.

Interestingly, Jaws also talked about the major decline in zone-read plays NFL QBs ran this past season. Appears it wasn't the revolutionary scheme that we may have thought it was going to be.

Probably a thread or two here that touched on that.


If he's saying MAJOR decline, I'm assuming he's not including variations. Take a team like Seattle. STANDARD zone plays were down, however, they started passing out of that play around mid-season. I also think some teams used it judiciously for health concerns rather than lack of effectiveness. (I don't think SF was alone here)

And in regard to effectiveness, while it wasn't as sucessful as the previous year, it was still a very effective way to move the ball according to the numbers.

I do agree with him on Manziel. And i'm not a guy who has one question about his attitude or work ethic. As a matter of fact, when the bell rang, that cat was always ready to ball - need no more proof than that other than performance and the fact his teammates stayed in his cormer wire to wire. He gave thenm ample opportunity to submarine him should he have been slacking on the practice or playing field.

But really, based on little evidence of going thru progressions, the penchant for taking off out of the pocket quickly, the fact that style is gonna take more size on Sundays....not sure how the hell this guy is top 5. Except how desperate teams are for QB's, I guess.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:54 pm

I don't know what's worse, the fact that it's a real possibility that we might draft Manziel...or the fact that, if Clowney, Sammie, and Teddy are all off the board, I wouldn't absolutely hate it.

I vowed not to talk myself into Manziel! but I can already feel it happening. It's great to hear about the size of his hands.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby justmebd » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:41 pm

Can we just win games? I don't care if Haslem's cat is the QB.

Any of these guys HAS to be better than Captain Flagface.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:29 am

justmebd wrote:Can we just win games? I don't care if Haslem's cat is the QB.

Any of these guys HAS to be better than Captain Flagface.

I've never heard Hoyer called that before.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Hikohadon » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:38 am

Erie Warrior wrote:Is AJ Mcarron appreciably less talented than Blake Bortles? I don't think so. Better than Carr in my opinion. Take McCarron in the 3rd and get some studs at 4 and 22.

I would seriously consider Manziel/Bridgewater at 4, but not lose sleep over it. Watkins will be there and is a good pick.

To answer your question... uh... yes. Lots.

McCarron is a mediocre prospect in arm strength, passing ability, mobility, size... basically every category except Really Obnoxious Full-Chest Tattoo. Bottles might very well be Jake Locker, but has the highest ceiling of any QB in the draft and it ain't really close.

Which is not to say that I'd take him at 4, cuz I don't really like him as a passer, but he has way more potential than a guy destined for career backup.

The ONLY QB I'd take at 4 would be Teddy.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby CleSportsTruth » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:07 pm

Hikohadon wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:Is AJ Mcarron appreciably less talented than Blake Bortles? I don't think so. Better than Carr in my opinion. Take McCarron in the 3rd and get some studs at 4 and 22.

I would seriously consider Manziel/Bridgewater at 4, but not lose sleep over it. Watkins will be there and is a good pick.

To answer your question... uh... yes. Lots.

McCarron is a mediocre prospect in arm strength, passing ability, mobility, size... basically every category except Really Obnoxious Full-Chest Tattoo. Bottles might very well be Jake Locker, but has the highest ceiling of any QB in the draft and it ain't really close.

Which is not to say that I'd take him at 4, cuz I don't really like him as a passer, but he has way more potential than a guy destined for career backup.

The ONLY QB I'd take at 4 would be Teddy.


We're kind of on opposite sides on Manziel (I'm intrigued), but I agree with everything else here. Reportedly, McCarron came to the combine out of shape and threw a bunch of ducks. I'll pass.

Bortles is bigger, more mobile and has a much better arm. That said, why does it feel like people are "trying to make Blake Bortles happen?" I get the "on paper" stuff, but that's it- is he a "paper champion" only?
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:45 pm

I still think we are concentrating on the wrong 'Jimmy'.

Jimmy Garoppolo is the guy I want , and you don't have to take him at #4 (Though I wouldnt be shocked if in the end he is a top 15 pick, I can see Minnesota grabbing him at 8). We should be using that number 4 pick on no shit real talent, not play a guessing game with three guys just b/c they happen to play QB.
Its tough to find anyone who has anything bad to say about Jimmy G other then "he played FCS"... Which I think is a pretty weak argument when you look at guys like Romo , and Flaco, and he has done nothing but excel in the All Star games and combines.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:16 pm

Govbarney wrote:I still think we are concentrating on the wrong 'Jimmy'.

Jimmy Garoppolo is the guy I want , and you don't have to take him at #4 (Though I wouldnt be shocked if in the end he is a top 15 pick, I can see Minnesota grabbing him at 8). We should be using that number 4 pick on no shit real talent, not play a guessing game with three guys just b/c they happen to play QB.
Its tough to find anyone who has anything bad to say about Jimmy G other then "he played FCS"... Which I think is a pretty weak argument when you look at guys like Romo , and Flaco, and he has done nothing but excel in the All Star games and combines.


He's been the guy I want for a while too. But that was assuming we could snatch him up in the 3rd. Is he really rising up boards that far? Sheesh.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Govbarney » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:42 pm

motherscratcher wrote:
Govbarney wrote:I still think we are concentrating on the wrong 'Jimmy'.

Jimmy Garoppolo is the guy I want , and you don't have to take him at #4 (Though I wouldnt be shocked if in the end he is a top 15 pick, I can see Minnesota grabbing him at 8). We should be using that number 4 pick on no shit real talent, not play a guessing game with three guys just b/c they happen to play QB.
Its tough to find anyone who has anything bad to say about Jimmy G other then "he played FCS"... Which I think is a pretty weak argument when you look at guys like Romo , and Flaco, and he has done nothing but excel in the All Star games and combines.


He's been the guy I want for a while too. But that was assuming we could snatch him up in the 3rd. Is he really rising up boards that far? Sheesh.


most of what I have seen rates him as a late second rounder, but he is a QB with a pulse, so that automatically bumps him up about 20 picks.

I see his draft story mirroring EJ Manuel's. This time last year no one saw him as anything more then a late 2 early 3, then a few weeks before the draft people start rating him as a early 2 late 1 , and before you know it a team in desperate need of a QB reaches for him at 16.
I just want to go on record to say that I think Jimmy G will be better then EJ Manuel, and while it may be a reach , I wouldnt be upset if the browns moved up a few spots from 23 to grab him.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:38 pm

Hikohadon wrote:To answer your question... uh... yes. Lots.

McCarron is a mediocre prospect in arm strength, passing ability, mobility, size... basically every category except Really Obnoxious Full-Chest Tattoo. Bottles might very well be Jake Locker, but has the highest ceiling of any QB in the draft and it ain't really close.



Bottles colored glasses? But your point is made, and so is mine.

Bridgewater will probably be there at 4, which is crazy.

Roll the dice on him, or lock down Watkins and make Hoyer look like Romo? Toss in Archer in the 3rd round and try and cover Gordon, Watkins, Cameron and Dri. No fucking way.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby bookelly » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:25 am

Whatever we do...please lord do not trade up.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby peeker643 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:49 am

bookelly wrote:Whatever we do...please lord do not trade up.


I think Captain Panic is gone to Seattle. I don't see them trading up and could see them actually going the other way if they can find a partner.

This "ridiculously rich" QB class has turned out to be more hype than help.

Be okay if they put an extra pick or two in their pocket for each 'next year' when you can maybe use it.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Hikohadon » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:45 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
Hikohadon wrote:To answer your question... uh... yes. Lots.

McCarron is a mediocre prospect in arm strength, passing ability, mobility, size... basically every category except Really Obnoxious Full-Chest Tattoo. Bottles might very well be Jake Locker, but has the highest ceiling of any QB in the draft and it ain't really close.



Bottles colored glasses? But your point is made, and so is mine.

Bridgewater will probably be there at 4, which is crazy.

Roll the dice on him, or lock down Watkins and make Hoyer look like Romo? Toss in Archer in the 3rd round and try and cover Gordon, Watkins, Cameron and Dri. No fucking way.

Make no mistake, I don't want Bottles at 4. Teddy... In a heartbeat. If he's not, I'm with you, take Watkins and a QB prospect in the 3rd and see what Hoyer can do this season.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby motherscratcher » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:44 pm

So, where are we all standing on Manziel right now?

His pro day was apparently impressive, but I'm not convinced that means anything, just as I'm not convinced that Teddy's reportedly unspectacular pro day means much either. There is a ton of tape on these guys so I don't see how playing catch with your friends for 15 minutes can add much info.

I didn't want him before, and I still don't want him. I've come along far enough that I wouldn't line up on the 480 if they did draft him, though.

And I'd be able to talk myself into it in about 10 seconds if they did pull that trigger...but that's no different than any other fucking year. :pb:
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby leadpipe » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:33 pm

motherscratcher wrote:So, where are we all standing on Manziel right now?

His pro day was apparently impressive, but I'm not convinced that means anything, just as I'm not convinced that Teddy's reportedly unspectacular pro day means much either. There is a ton of tape on these guys so I don't see how playing catch with your friends for 15 minutes can add much info.

I didn't want him before, and I still don't want him. I've come along far enough that I wouldn't line up on the 480 if they did draft him, though.

And I'd be able to talk myself into it in about 10 seconds if they did pull that trigger...but that's no different than any other fucking year. :pb:


I don't recall, nor do I have any official data, but I'd be willing to bet we can find some info on Brandon Weeden's pro day being "impressive" as well.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby StewieG » Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:33 pm

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Re: Manziel

Unread postby swerb » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:14 pm

I am all aboard the Johnny Football Train. I'd love to see the Browns take him, and think he's going to be a special NFL player.

Kid was just born to play the QB position to me. Was very impressed with what I saw from him during the Gruden QB camp. Not only his natural talent, arm, athletic skills, and the freakish hand size that allows him to throw tight spirals without even using the strings of the football ... but his own analysis of his own game and what he needs to do to get ready to slay giants on Sundays.

And the Pro Day. Was impressive.

Everything I have seen in two years of watching this kid screams that he is going to be a big time game changing talent that can run, think, and make every throw.

And he would set this town on fire if he's even 80% of that.

Browns will pass on him. And he'll haunt us for years. Take it to the bank.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby fairvis » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:29 am

I've tried at various points to talk myself both in and out of JFF.

1. He's a dynamic playmaker that's bent Nick Saban over like nobody else has.
2. He's a Joe Namath-like partier that (in my eyes) is a breath of fresh air after all of these goody-two-shoes wanna-be's in the league right now. Come on, we know they all get down- so Johnny's an ass about it, but at least he's honest.
3. He's boom or bust when it comes to being a NFL QB. There is no way that he is only mediocre.

The buzz that would result from the Browns drafting JFF would be amazing. He'd also probably personally fund a renovation of West 6th St.

Here's a question for you guys- if he was being talked about at being there at 26, would that change things? We have to get #4 right, and Robinson, Mack and Clowney are safer choices there (if available).
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby leadpipe » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:55 am

swerb wrote:I am all aboard the Johnny Football Train. I'd love to see the Browns take him, and think he's going to be a special NFL player.

Kid was just born to play the QB position to me. Was very impressed with what I saw from him during the Gruden QB camp. Not only his natural talent, arm, athletic skills, and the freakish hand size that allows him to throw tight spirals without even using the strings of the football ... but his own analysis of his own game and what he needs to do to get ready to slay giants on Sundays.

And the Pro Day. Was impressive.

Everything I have seen in two years of watching this kid screams that he is going to be a big time game changing talent that can run, think, and make every throw.

And he would set this town on fire if he's even 80% of that.

Browns will pass on him. And he'll haunt us for years. Take it to the bank.


Not convinced you can play that style with so little size.

I see a Michael Vick - not in accuracy or smarts - but in the sense you'll get about 2 full seasons of every five.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Erie Warrior » Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:35 pm

leadpipe wrote:Not convinced you can play that style with so little size.


Can not concur. Defenses are not allowed to touch the guy throwing the ball anymore. Vick hit several years too early.

He still has to be smart about getting out of bounds and throwing the ball away, but it ain't the same as before.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Hikohadon » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:58 am

swerb wrote:Browns will pass on him. And he'll haunt us for years. Take it to the bank.


Where is this bank and how do I get in on it?

If I had a quarter for every fatally flawed QB that someone assured me would succeed, that bank would be full indeed.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby leadpipe » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:41 pm

Erie Warrior wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Not convinced you can play that style with so little size.


Can not concur. Defenses are not allowed to touch the guy throwing the ball anymore. Vick hit several years too early.

He still has to be smart about getting out of bounds and throwing the ball away, but it ain't the same as before.


You also need more size in the NFL to keep plays alive. He's a one arm take-down guy. The masters of the broken play - and two of the VERY FEW that made their careers out of these plays were Elway and Roethleberger.

And Vick played the majority of his years with current rules, and suffered the majority of his injuries in the places on the field where the protection doesn't really apply.

The Hoyer play is a perfect example of one that Johhny F is gonna have to put himself into to be successful. Shocked, SHOCKED if he's 2 full season for every 4.
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Re: Manziel

Unread postby Hikohadon » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:58 am

leadpipe wrote:
Erie Warrior wrote:
leadpipe wrote:Not convinced you can play that style with so little size.


Can not concur. Defenses are not allowed to touch the guy throwing the ball anymore. Vick hit several years too early.

He still has to be smart about getting out of bounds and throwing the ball away, but it ain't the same as before.


You also need more size in the NFL to keep plays alive. He's a one arm take-down guy. The masters of the broken play - and two of the VERY FEW that made their careers out of these plays were Elway and Roethleberger.

And Vick played the majority of his years with current rules, and suffered the majority of his injuries in the places on the field where the protection doesn't really apply.

The Hoyer play is a perfect example of one that Johhny F is gonna have to put himself into to be successful. Shocked, SHOCKED if he's 2 full season for every 4.

Agree. If Manziel plays the way he did in college, he'll spend a lot of time nursing owies on the sidelines. But since playing that way is likely the only way he'll be effective...

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