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With Larry in the fold, who are the playoff starters?

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With Larry in the fold, who are the playoff starters?

Unread postby Lebowski » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:47 am

Do you have Hughes some off the bench?

Demote Flip?

I think there are only really 2 choices: (a) have Hughes come off the bench as a super 6th man, or (b) bench Snow and play both Flip and Hughes.

You can't put Murray on the bench, since he has been a big part of the playoff run and that would upset the team's chemistry. You have essentially played the majority of the year without Hughes, so having him as a 6th man wouldn't be a bad idea...but if I were MB, I would go with (b).

PG Hughes
SG Murray
SF James
PF Gooden
C Z (hopefully)
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Unread postby jd jr » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:17 pm

i think that hughes should play against there second teamers , and with lbj flip drew and z in the final 5- 6 min per game
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:45 pm

Hughes will go back into the starting lineup, and Flip will come off the bench. Hughes is 4 inches taller and much better chasing wing scorers and in the passing lanes. Barring him being completely unable to shake the rust off these next 8 games, he'll be back to starting and playing 30-35 min a night.

Offensively, the two are really close to a wash, and have similar type games. The Cavs will need Hughes defense in the playoffs though.

One of the advantages Roker has with these eight games meaning nothing is that he can experiment playing Flip and Larry together. Work all the combinations of his 4 guards (Snow, Hughes, Flip, DJ) ... and see what works and what doesn't at both ends.
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Unread postby Lebowski » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:13 pm

Your love for Eric Snow is blinding you to the best starting lineup :wink:
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Unread postby Lebowski » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:19 pm

If he does bench Murray, it should be interesting to see how he handles the demotion. Heard that was a major problem in Seattle for him.

I still think Hughes, Murray, James, Gooden, and Z gives us the best chance to win. You are comparing the wrong players (Hughes and Murray). The correct comparison is Murray versus Snow.

Larry can play the point....or Lebron, as he does basically in the 4th quarter anyways. Murray gives you a good scoring threat, instead of Snow, who gives you next to nothing.

Gump wont do it....but that's an indictment on him as a coach rather than on the idea.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:34 pm

Lebowski wrote:Your love for Eric Snow is blinding you to the best starting lineup :wink:

When it comes to the playoffs, the two most important things are taking care of the ball and making stops. The average PPG drops by almost 10 in the NBA playoffs vs the reg season.

Snow is better than Flip in both areas.

Snow can be exposed at the top of the key in 1 on 1 situations by waterbug guards like Arenas, but he is still one of the teams best defenders, and never turns the ball over.

Don't get me wrong, Snow's minutes will go down as a result of Flips emergence and Larrys return. And thats a good thing. At this point of his career Snow is a much better player at 20-22 min a night vs 30-32.

And all that matters is who's on the floor at the end of the game. Flip won't be a problem if his minutes decline. Hes a FA at years end, and the last thing he wants is talk of him being a problem teammate as he looks to land his 1st big deal this offseason.
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Unread postby Lebowski » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:13 am

When it comes to the playoffs, the two most important things are taking care of the ball and making stops

Valid point. I retreat...a bit. I still think we would be fine with Larry at the point, but with him missing so much time, it could be a risk. Classic risk/reward IMO. The possible added value of Hughes + Murray versus the certainty of Snow.

True dat about the 5 on the floor at the end.

Snow can be exposed at the top of the key in 1 on 1 situations by waterbug guards like Arenas

So would you still start him in rd 1 if we face Wash?

If MB does go with Snow and Hughes in the backcourt, am I the only one worried about abandoning the lineup that you used for the majority of the season? Seemed to be doing pretty good as of late, no?
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Unread postby swerb » Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:43 am

So would you still start him in rd 1 if we face Wash?

I would agree that the Wizards are the worst matchup for Snow of any of our three potential playoff opponents.

He may play less minutes in a Wizards series, but he still starts. You don't take a guy like Snow, a team leader who has been starting all year, and bench him starting in the playoffs.

Last nights abonimation aside, the Cavs are clicking pretty well right now. It will be interesting to see how the 96 backcourt minutes are divied up between Snow, Hughes, Flip, DJ come playoff time though.

Someones gonna have to check Arenas, and slow 1st step notwithstanding, Snow is still prolly the best option.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Roker have LBJ check Arenas 5-6 minutes of each half to mix things up. Thats how Rokers been counteracting the Cavs struggles against quick guards ... by switching up the defensive looks on em.
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Unread postby Lebowski » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:31 pm

Someones gonna have to check Arenas, and slow 1st step notwithstanding, Snow is still prolly the best option.


Disagree...Hughes would be a better matchup with his foot and hand quickness. With Snow checking him Arenas is a crossover dribble away from getting into the paint every possession.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Roker have LBJ check Arenas 5-6 minutes of each half to mix things up. Thats how Rokers been counteracting the Cavs struggles against quick guards ... by switching up the defensive looks on em.


Good point. This has been the only act of originality by Mr. Roker this season, and it has worked pretty well. I'd like to see more creativity on the offensive end, but cleveland fans can't be choosers.

No concern about this?:

If MB does go with Snow and Hughes in the backcourt, am I the only one worried about abandoning the lineup that you used for the majority of the season? Seemed to be doing pretty good as of late, no?
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Unread postby swerb » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:21 am

Bud Shaw says stick with Flip ...

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plainde ... xml&coll=2

Cavs should stick with the Flip side

Saturday, April 15, 2006
Bud Shaw
Plain Dealer Columnist

Vote for Flip.

Think of it as the Cavs' version of the "Vote for Pedro" campaign in "Napoleon Dynamite."

Larry Hughes has a lot going for him in his bid to return to the Cavaliers starting lineup and put Flip Murray on the bench for the first postseason in eight years. The Cavaliers have a long-term commitment to Hughes, who did nothing to lose his job except get injured.

Murray's contract status makes him a fling. But he answered a siren call. What now that the emergency is over?

A year ago, Hughes was an All-NBA defensive player. He once again showed himself to be the best talent on the floor Thursday night at The Q. Of course, half the players on the floor were New York Knicks. But he was active, effective and persistent after a scattershot start.

Murray isn't a turnstile on defense. He's not Hughes either. He can create his own shot whereas Hughes can create the turnover that leads to creating his own shot.

What's a coach to do? Don't fix what doesn't need fixing, that's what.

"There are a ton of factors," said Cavaliers head coach Mike Brown. "Does it mess with the rhythm of the team? Does it mess with my rhythm? How does it affect the psyche of the team when playing as well as you are. It's the overall chemistry, more than anything, you worry about when you make a change in the lineup.

"I don't think anybody has an exact answer or the right solution. If they did, they'd be millionaires right now because they could bottle it up and sell it. Everybody's always looking for answers to that."

Bill Gates found a more substantial way of making his fortune. So did Dan Gilbert. Nobody makes the richest American list by figuring out how to introduce an injured starter back to his team, but that team can win or lose based on how it all works out.

Brown has to monitor playing time to ensure LeBron James is healthy and ready for the postseason. Zydrunas Ilgauskas also is coming off a sprained ankle. Teams that clinch with time remaining in the regular season search for that middle ground between entering the playoffs rested and showing up for Game 1 without its sharp edge.

But calculable minutes can help in making those decisions. So can feedback from James, Ilgauskas and everyone else. Brown likes to call on his experiences with Rick Carlisle and Gregg Popovich. Surely they have shared their ideas on playing time late in the year.

Brown's toughest call by far is how quickly to work Hughes back in the lineup and at what cost, if any, to the rapport the Cavaliers found with Murray at shooting guard.

Murray not only hit big shots and showed a complete lack of shyness about going to the basket, he gave the Cavaliers offense without being the other big-time player. He quite simply fit in.

Without Hughes, James expanded his game and his appetite for taking over late. Perhaps that would have been the natural progression anyway. But all Brown can go on is that it happened with Murray on the court.

Hughes didn't look settled in the offense before his injury. It's difficult to imagine him suddenly finding that comfort level after missing so many games, and with so few games remaining.

"I'm talking to both of them," Brown said. "Both of them will back the decision I make."

There wouldn't be a debate if Hughes returned a month ago. It's so late in the year, there shouldn't be much of one now.
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