FIRE MIKE BROWN TODAY

[furls]

This team is disgusting. They are damn near impossible to watch. They need to bench Snow, DJ, and Marshall. I don't care if they ever see another minute of play time.

I can and I will blame the coaching staff. This team is slow and does not move without the ball, that is a direct reflection of not only the team but also the coaching staff. It is an epidemic on the court.

Mike Brown is out coached during every time out. Mike Brown "the Defensive Guru" has actually seen this Cavs defense get worse. Their is no semblance of a real offense.

This game is the equivalent to Butch Davis' last game. This is the point where you have to look at this team and its pattern of being unable to sustain giant leads in the second half and say their is something systemically wrong with this team. This wouldn't be a problem if it wasnt a pattern.

[pup]

OK, now that my head is out of the toilet after watching the third quarter, I second Furls motion. 8 points? Up 19 to tied in 1 quarter of "action".

The only thing I have to say is.."Batter up". Let's go Tribe!

[Guest]

What a joke, all of them
Defense is HORRIBLE

[consigliere]

Team Streak!

Since the East is gift-wrapping the #4 playoff seed for the Cadavers, what is there to watch these last 17-18 games? This is one of the things I hate about the NBA, as unless you are a shit team battling for the 7th or 8th spot to get in the playoffs, the intensity of the final few weeks just isn't there like in football and especially baseball.

[swerb]

Valid points. And while Brown has his faults, and could very easily be Randy Wittman II, I still think it's more a personnel question.

On an aside, a serious question.

The Cavs are 36-29, with a very easy schedule remaining. What did you expect their record to be this season?

I think I predicted 46-36, and that's still where I have them finishing.

[freeper57]

The Cavs aren't going anywhere in the playoffs this year anyway. Even if they get home court advantage the first round, I wouldn't be surprised if they get knocked out. Don't really have any strong opinions about Mike Brown as a coach, and I agree it is more a personnel issue than anything else.

In any event, I really don't follow the team that much anymore. I was a season-ticket holder at the Coliseum the year they won 57 games (1988-89), but stopped being a true fan on November 16, 1989 (the day Ron Harper was traded). Don't even have to look up the date, it is burned in my memory. I have never forgiven the Cavs for that one. Basketball now is simply a bridge between the end of football and the start of baseball for me.

[pup]

Swerb - my problem is not their record. It is the way they are playing. Teams should be improving throughout a season, yet they appear to be regressing.

[consigliere]

Good point Pup. And, that is what is irritating me with the Cadavers. Talk about backing into the playoffs......

The one frustrating thing to me is I think what we see is what we are going to get this year....AND upcoming years. The Cavaliers have really no room now to make any big FA acquisitions AND don't have the luxury of a lottery pick anymore AND aside from Lebron don't have much to offer in a trade.

Oh well. Guess I'll enjoy just having a competitive team. It's better than the crap that was thrown on the floor after Fratello got whacked.

[furls]

The fact that they have not improved during the season, and cannot finish a game is a DIRECT reflection on the coaching.

I do agree that the personnel is a problem and it will be until DJ, Marshall, and Snows contracts end, so go ahead and fire Danny Ferry too (1/2 kidding about that one).

The way these guys are dogging it out there clearly shows that either Mike Brown does not know what he is doing, does not care about losing, or does not have the respect of this team. In any case all you can do is fire the dude.

[swerb]

Furls, any softening on this stance?

Cavs have looked superb in the second halves of games over the past two weeks.

I think the Cavs could have Mickey Mouse coaching this team. When Damon and Donyell are hitting jumpers, this is a tough team to beat, especially at home.

[furls]

sorry, havent been around much lately.

Nope, no softening. This isnt just me being hardheaded (I think). From my perspective not a hell of a lot has changed. Yes they are winning games and the defense has been better in the second half, but they still run no discernable offense and until they become more disciplined on both ends of the court they will be summarily thrashed by teams that are.

Teams like the Pistons, Spurs, and (triangle) Lakers win titles. Not loosey goosey run and gun chuckers.

[buddycowley]

Teams like the Pistons, Spurs, and (triangle) Lakers win titles. Not loosey goosey run and gun chuckers.

Last I checked, we weren't expecting the Cavaliers to contend for the title this year anyways.

Even the Pistons, Spurs, and Lakers had to go through some growing before they were considered teams that were going to be title contenders.

Did you really expect this team to just magically become a team that will take down the Detroit's and San Antonio's of the world?

This team is right on track. We shouldn't expect the world overnight.

Buddy

[furls]

This team is right on track. We shouldn't expect the world overnight.

The team is on the track to be a one and done playoff team until there is some resemblance of continuity and structure. The Cavaliers are winning because they are out "talenting" teams right now. That works sometimes but not against good teams in best of seven series.

Did you really expect this team to just magically become a team that will take down the Detroit's and San Antonio's of the world?

yeah, that's exactly what I wrote too. I said, "OMG why aren't the cavs winning it all yet? OMG OMG OMG." I said that the Cavs play an offensive set similiar to my intramural league at OSU. I like to call it stand around on the perimeter and chuck three pointers. Until my friend, who has a game similar to ron lewis (always gets to the hole), takes over and out talents the other team for us.

This team is disgusting. They are damn near impossible to watch. They need to bench Snow, DJ, and Marshall. I don't care if they ever see another minute of play time.

I can and I will blame the coaching staff. This team is slow and does not move without the ball, that is a direct reflection of not only the team but also the coaching staff. It is an epidemic on the court.

Mike Brown is out coached during every time out. Mike Brown "the Defensive Guru" has actually seen this Cavs defense get worse. Their is no semblance of a real offense.

I still stand by every single one of these points. I do not expect the cavaliers to run their new offense play their defensive rotations perfectly, but I do expect those things to exist. What you can say about the growing pains of the spurs, bulls, lakers (etc.) is that their growing pains were the result of growing into a system. The cavaliers are directly related to their complete lack of one.

[pup]

I only have one question. Is guarding the pick and roll really this difficult? I mean it is not Stockton to Malone. It is Furls to Swerb type guys scoring. If the player who has the ball is a shooter, please go over the screen. If it is a guy who likes to go to the hole, can the defender of the screener please hedge over the top. That is all I ask from this team.

And welcome back Larry!!!!!

[Goozer]

I think I predicted 46-36, and that's still where I have them finishing.

While you *think*, I know you predicted 56 wins. But what's 10 games when in either scenario in means the #4 seed, right?

[consigliere]

I think Mike Brown's worth will ultimately be shown in the playoffs. I am very happy to make the playoffs, and am interested to see how this team performs under Brown in the playoffs and how Lebron performs in crunch time when the D will be dialed up a notch.

[swerb]

I think I predicted 46-36, and that's still where I have them finishing.

While you *think*, I know you predicted 56 wins. But what's 10 games when in either scenario in means the #4 seed, right?

Did I really? Good god ...

I know I predicted the 4 seed.

[buddycowley]

Furls,

I'm not sure what to make of the comments you are making. First, you say that this team is shaping up to be a ONE AND DONE PLAYOFF team, and then you criticize me for saying that people seem to expect that this team should be in the finals.

I know you weren't running around saying OMG OMG OMG as you clearly stated, but what is the middle ground between being a ONE AND DONE PLAYOFF TEAM and one that is contending for the title. A two and done playoff team? What is the difference?

This is not a team that STANDS AROUND ON THE PERIMETER AND CHUCKS THREES. If they are out-talenting people without any semblance of an offensive set (your words again), then how are we to complain? This team has barely been able to play together as a fully cohesive unit, and you're bitching that we don't run a discernable offense?

Plus, if you're going to continue to complain about Snow, Jones, and Marshall then you clearly know little about basketball. Those three players have gone a lot farther in helping this team to win, especially lately. If you want Mike Wilks back, and more Sasha Pavlovic and Alan Henderson on the floor, then fine by me. However, the end result is going to be much worse that you seem to expect it to be.

Buddy

[furls]

I'm not sure what to make of the comments you are making. First, you say that this team is shaping up to be a ONE AND DONE PLAYOFF team, and then you criticize me for saying that people seem to expect that this team should be in the finals.

sorry, maybe i should have clarified what I meant to say is that without any type of offensive sets, with an undisciplined run and gun team you are doomed to FOREVER be a one and done team. Look at the teams that win titles.

This team has barely been able to play together as a fully cohesive unit, and you're bitching that we don't run a discernable offense?

WTF are you talking about? barely been able to play together? who has been missing? Ira? If you are referring to Larry Hughes, how long does it take to adapt? I would understand if this team was injury plagued, but frankly the cavs have been pretty damn healthy this year.

This is not a team that STANDS AROUND ON THE PERIMETER AND CHUCKS THREES. If they are out-talenting people without any semblance of an offensive set (your words again), then how are we to complain?

Read that again and tell me what the point is. I think what you are trying to say is that, if they are out talenting why would we complain? if that is your point than the answer is this: you cannot out talent good teams. you can out talent the bottom feeders but you cannot "out talent" the Pistons.

Plus, if you're going to continue to complain about Snow, Jones, and Marshall then you clearly know little about basketball. Those three players have gone a lot farther in helping this team to win, especially lately.

I must not, because to me it appears as though jones and marshall have largely been useless. If you think that the last two weeks makes up for a season of shittiness well that is your problem. I expect players to actually make a real attempt at defense. Sad thing is that I remember when Eric Snow was a good player, but frankly his ankles are shot and his age is showing.

So lets see what I dont know: 1.) The cavs are 8th in the league at chucking 3's, i can call it chucking because they rank 25th in the league at actually making them. 2.) eric snow is 34th in the league in assists with 4.4 per game. not a great number from your point guard. 3.) Marshall ranks 12th in the league in 3 point attempts, not bad. Unfortuneately, he ranks 183rd in actually making them. 4.) Damon Jones is not doing much better, he ranks 18th in the league in attempts and he is currently 85th at actually making them. 5.) There is no number that can possibly measure how little effort those guys put into other aspects of the game. There is no, "beaten for 193743 points by XXX" stat. There is no min standing around stat. There is no "0 effort to get the loose ball stat".

Is this the kind of contribution you are happy with?

If you want Mike Wilks back, and more Sasha Pavlovic and Alan Henderson on the floor, then fine by me. However, the end result is going to be much worse that you seem to expect it to be

who said anything about those stiffs? Stop drinking the freakin Kool aid. Is it nifty that the cavs are going to playoffs? sure. Am I happy with that? yes. Unfortunately, until there is a system in place that is all they will do, go to the playoffs. I am not personally content with that forever.

[buddycowley]

Unfortunately, until there is a system in place that is all they will do, go to the playoffs. I am not personally content with that forever.

Forever? Who said anything about forever? This team added Ron Murray at the deadline, and lost Larry Hughes 28 games into the season. Plus, Anderson Varejao was out for an extended period of time at the outset of the year, so don't give me the "healthy" schtick, because the Cavaliers haven't been.

The Cavaliers NEED to shoot threes because that is the only way the team can get people away from clogging the lane and forcing the team to shoot jumpers. No, Jones and Marshall haven't been nearly as successful as anyone would have hoped, but LeBron sure seems to be having an easier time getting to the basket when he so chooses. Now, with slashers like Hughes and Murray on the floor, you're going to see just as many threes now. There's a reason you see Jones and Marshall spotting up in the corners a lot, it's part of the OFFENSE. You think those guys just go out there and hang in the corners because they want to? It is all part of the plan.

So, is your vendetta against Mike Brown and his PERCEIVED lack of an offense, or is it just that you hate Jones and Marshall as much as some of the other whiners in the Cavaliers fold that only open their yaps when something bad happens? Remember, you were the one that said you'd be happy if they never saw the floor again. It must be man-love for Sasha Pavlovic or Luke Jackson, I've seen it many a time.

This team is not in position to beat the Pistons, or any of the NBA powers yet, so stop expecting it. Improvements to this team will be made next year, and the team will be better for it. Ferry has done an immense amount in just one season, and we're already treating him like he should have solved every problem already, which is foolish.

Buddy

[pup]

I only have one question. Will they be able to do anything to further the improvement this off season, or are they stuck fighting the cap? Danny Ferry did what he had to do this last off season to make the team better, but did he leave any flexibility for future free agents/trades?

[swerb]

I only have one question. Will they be able to do anything to further the improvement this off season, or are they stuck fighting the cap? Danny Ferry did what he had to do this last off season to make the team better, but did he leave any flexibility for future free agents/trades?

The notion that Ferry "fired all his bullets" is a false one.

The Cavs have a 1st rd pick. They will sign and trade Drew Gooden, and they will get more than people think for him. They will have the midlevel (6 mill roughly) exception to use. They will have the veteran exemption (little over a mill) to use.

Chances are also good that they will deal either Sasha or Luke. Both are young, cheap, and still have potential.

Plus, they have their core of Z, Bron, Hughes, Snow, DJ, Marshall, Varejao all coming back.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Flip. He is a FA and the Cavs do noth have his Bird rights. Hes likely pricing himself away from a return to the Cavs with his solid play of late.

[pup]

Good to know. I just can't grasp the NBA salary rules, so thanks for the explanantion.

And I feel much better now!

[furls]

The Cavaliers NEED to shoot threes because that is the only way the team can get people away from clogging the lane and forcing the team to shoot jumpers

Read that again and see if you can spot the idiocy. The cavs need to shoot LOW % shots unsuccessfully to prevent themselves from shooting low percentage jumpers?

No, Jones and Marshall haven't been nearly as successful as anyone would have hoped,

so I shouldn't criticize them?

but LeBron sure seems to be having an easier time getting to the basket when he so chooses.

so damon jones and donyell marshall standing around makes lebron a better player?

Now, with slashers like Hughes and Murray on the floor, you're going to see just as many threes now

.

why? With guys who can go to the basket I would hope to see pick and rolls, screens, and more movement away from the ball.

There's a reason you see Jones and Marshall spotting up in the corners a lot, it's part of the OFFENSE.

If Damon Jones and Donyell Marshall shooting among the league leaders in 3point attempts is part of the "offense" then Mike Brown should not only be fired but brought up on trial for crimes against humanity.

You think those guys just go out there and hang in the corners because they want to? It is all part of the plan.

No, I think they hang out in the corners because they have "fallen in love with the 3 pointer." It is a tendancy of players who have diminished skills to do so. Tell me something else that damon jones can do? What is really sweet is that we are stuck with that defensive liability for several more years at several million dollars.

This team added Ron Murray at the deadline

The team did not have an offensive plan before Murray and they still don't have one, but they can have some success as long as they play "up tempo".

Plus, Anderson Varejao was out for an extended period of time at the outset of the year,

so losing the back up center (who doesnt score many points) was an integral part of the team? get over it, the cavs have been pretty healthy this year with the exception of Larry Hughes and even though Hughes was gone for what, 5 months, Mike Brown still did not develop an alternative plan? this is OK for an NBA Head coach? QUIT DRINKING THE KOOLAID.

or is it just that you hate Jones and Marshall as much as some of the other whiners in the Cavaliers fold that only open their yaps when something bad happens?

I dislike all one trick ponies. Especially when they suck at their one trick.

other whiners in the Cavaliers fold that only open their yaps when something bad happens

I am pretty sure I was defending Lebron on these vary same boards a couple of months ago when things were not going so well.

Remember, you were the one that said you'd be happy if they never saw the floor again. It must be man-love for Sasha Pavlovic or Luke Jackson, I've seen it many a time.

I am not the one that keeps bringing them up, but since you seem obsessed with them maybe you are projecting. Speaking of man love, why are you putting so much effort into defending a couple of non defense playing, 3 point chucking, court liabilities?

You think that shooting the 12th most 3pointes in the NBA and ranking 183rd in make them is OK? You think he should continue shooting 3's? and then you have the gaul to question me as a fairweather fan for saying that they suck? I am sorry, that is not OK.

Here is another interesting stat for you....

Damon Jones: 78% of his shots this year have been 3 pointers
Donyell Marshall: 60% of his shots this year have been 3 pointers.

If that isnt standing around and chucking 3's then I dont know what is. it is not like either of these guys is freakin ray allen or Michael redd. Hell, the real killer is that Marshall used to be a good overall player. Damon Jones has always been this crappy. Don't give me, this is an off year crap, this is called regression to the mean. The guy is a lifetime 38% 3 point shooter. This year he is shooting 37%. It just seems like an off year because he had a fluke season last year, and we were stupid enough to sign him (long term) based largely on it.

So I am waiting for an intelligent argument of my points. Refute them with logic, not with your "OMG OMG OMG you are the suxxors, you have hot man love for XXXX. You are a fairweather fan BS."

Give me an intelligent argument or STFU and go back in the corner lick your wounds. In either case, state a fact, break down the cavs offense, "School me with your elite basketball knowledge", show me something that those two bags of crap contribute aside from a combined 33.9% three point field goal percentage.

As far as firing all the bullets, they are not really all fired, but the cavs are much more cash tight next year than they were this yeat. That is for sure. There will be no major personnel upgrade for next year. I just sincerely hope the cavs can find a way to unload DJ, DM and resign Flip. He has added a lot of swagger to this team.

[Guest]

God might fire him.

[furls]

http://www.swerbsblurbs.com/article_det ... heme=cavs&

The evidence is mounting, but I guess I am just a hater. After all, he is a "defensive guru" (as demonstrated night after night).

[pup]

How the fuck is this team still running underneath screens and allowing wide open threes? 10-11 in the first half, and at least 8 of them where someone dribbling above the arc, getting a screen and as soon as we wnt under, step back, 3, down 21. Good work boys. At least we made it to Detroit

[consigliere]

Geeze, at least give us a chance Detroit.

You know that thing you used to do when you were a kid, and you would play your little brother or another kid several years younger than you, and you'd toy with him to keep him in the game before burying him? Or, that thing as a father you do with your kids to keep them in the game? Well, would be nice if the Pistons at least did that to us!

If you told me before the game that we would shoot 51% in the first half....only have 7 turnovers......Lebron has 22 points.....we score 48 points....I'd have been elated.

Instead, we are down 21 freaking points. Geeze.

Of course, the Pistons shooting 64% overall, and 10-11 from 3's is a big reason for that deficit.

Lindsey Hunter was just saying they are open for the shots because we are doubling their post guys (WTF?). Why on Earth are we doubling the post guys? You'd think it would be the other way around.

Oh, nice to see Z play a little better......but good Lord, Hughes, wake the eff up.

[consigliere]

In case no one has heard yet, the Cavaliers announced today they picked up the 4th year option on his contract. A quick presser and announcement will be made later today.

[furls]

seeing Wesley and Snow on the court at the same time has inspired me to blow the dust off of this old favorite.

Funny, not much has changed except DJs and DMs minutes are down.