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Tidbits from Windhorst

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Tidbits from Windhorst

Unread postby StewieG » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:13 pm

Lots of stuff from his blog the other day (recap shamelessly stolen from another website. Will post link if it's necessary to give credit where it's due. http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/17387532.htm

But the ones I found most interesting:

--Dan Gilbert has cleared Danny Ferry to go into the luxury tax. By the way, this is no small feat. Just ask some other GMs.

--The Mike Bibby deal is probably dead. The Kings wanted most of the Cavs' expiring contracts. Now, they can't really make the same deal. Never say never, but do yourself a favor and don't harp on it.

--Do you know the Cavs could trade Damon Jones, Ira Newble and David Wesley for up to an $11.1 million player while the other team would only be responsible for around $4.6 million in actual dollars next season. Dude, read the story. Those guys are assets, trust me. (This one was the most interesting, to me)

--As far as I can tell the following star-type players are potentially on the trade market: Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Rashard Lewis, Zach Randolph, Bibby, Kobe Bryant, Shawn Marion, Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, and Ron Artest. This has the makings of a crazy summer. The Cavs are looking to make a major trade and I have no doubt they will be trolling the waters. As I mentioned before, they have some assets to work with even if they are not obvious. Obviously, not all of them would be available for the Cavs (O'Neal, Carter, probably Kidd because of in-conference rivalries)

Discuss.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:52 pm

I think O'Neal might be available, even with the Pacers being in the same division. It depends on if the price is right. The Cavs can offer a lot of financial flexibility.

I think Andre Miller can be a target. We can offer quick cap relief to a rebuilding Philly team. They've got three first rounders this year, so we might be able to get back in the draft through them as well. Webber's $19M salary comes off the books for them this year. Ira Newble and Wesley would give them another $5M or more, possibly up to $7M. That Cavs could help the Sixers get around $30M in cap space after this upcoming season - perfect for a team that's loaded with young players and will be adding more between the next two drafts. They'd also have a serious shot at next year's #1 pick, so you never know.

Garnett is an intriguing possibility, but I'm not sure we have the horses.

I'm a big Rashard Lewis fan and believe he could be had for a deal involving Z if the Sonics do get Durant. That'd give them an experienced center to play next to the young rookie.

Drew Gooden still has value. Pavlovic can get us something, though we'll have to do a three-way trade. Varejao will also draw interest and would be key to an O'Neal trade, I believe.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:57 pm

Kobe Bryant possibly being traded to Chicago scares the bejesus out of me. Chicago undoubtedly would have to give up a lot to get Bryant, but I believe they are talented and deep enough to trade away a collection of young guys for Bryant and STILL have a good team around him. I'm praying Bryant stays in LA.

Also, I believe Varejao is going to get a ridiculous contract from someone thsi offseason. You see it all the time. Teams overpay for big men. I think what he gets will dwarf what Gooden signed for, which will be interesting to see how the Cavs handle it. I'd hate to see Varejao go, but is he going to be worth $7-8M+ a year possibly? Would he be better served in a sign and trade to get something of value?

That is great to hear that Ferry can go over the luxury tax. This, to me, helps out mostly with resigning Varejao and Sasha, but even moreso on making trades. As Windhorst opined, we have some good trading chips to offer not only in young talent, but also expiring contracts. I think it would be nearly impossible to deal Hughes and Z, but everyone else is very tradeable if you ask me.

Ferry has to get it right this offseason. This is his chance to correct his mistakes in the 2005 offseason.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:57 pm

Danny Ferry might have the toughest job in basketball, thanks to his predecessor. The "mistakes" he made in 2005 were a result of this. I don't know how good a GM the guy is, but I'm not passing judgement for at least another year. All this - the cap space, free agents, expiring contracts...it's jumping thru hoops at every level for the Cavs at this point.

They can free cap space, they can sign free agents, they can work expiring contracts., but it will be harder for the Cavs to do this than any other team in the league.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:32 pm

Consigliere wrote:Also, I believe Varejao is going to get a ridiculous contract from someone thsi offseason. You see it all the time. Teams overpay for big men. I think what he gets will dwarf what Gooden signed for, which will be interesting to see how the Cavs handle it. I'd hate to see Varejao go, but is he going to be worth $7-8M+ a year possibly? Would he be better served in a sign and trade to get something of value?


Probably, though a sign-and-trade would be difficult because he will be a BYC player. He'll be worth less to the Cavs in trade than his actual salary. Varejao's salary was only $945,600. A raise of 20% or more will make him BYC. So if a S&T contract was signed at $7M for year one then his trade value to the Cavs would be only $3.5M while he'd be worth the full $7M for the other team in the deal. A trade with a contract like Hughes' can make a S&T deal work but smaller deals will have to be done with a third team.

Hughes' salary actually drops by $3M once we officially move on to "next season". His salary is around $12M. Jermaine O'Neal's is $19.7M. A deal where Varejao is getting $7M in year one plus Hughes plus Wesley's ending contract would work under the cap rules because the huge salaries will allow the $3.5M BYC difference to be covered under the NBA's trade policy for teams over the cap (125%+$100K).

That is great to hear that Ferry can go over the luxury tax. This, to me, helps out mostly with resigning Varejao and Sasha, but even moreso on making trades. As Windhorst opined, we have some good trading chips to offer not only in young talent, but also expiring contracts. I think it would be nearly impossible to deal Hughes and Z, but everyone else is very tradeable if you ask me.

Ferry has to get it right this offseason. This is his chance to correct his mistakes in the 2005 offseason.


I think it's very possible and likely that both Z and Hughes can be traded, it just depends on what you want for them. Hughes has been misused is Cleveland and NBA people know this. He's a slasher, a guy who wants to drive to the basket. He doesn't fill this role in Cleveland because LeBron is much better at it. His contract is also reasonable compared to other players. Take the O'Neal example above. Both players have the same ending contract year but Hughes makes over $9M less than Jermaine O'Neal in the last year of the deal. A trade of Hughes in a Garnett deal wouldn't make as much sense because Garnett is likely done a year before Hughes, although Hughes would provide great savings if ending contracts were traded with him (around $9-10M per season).

Z is looked at as cheap for what he brings. Varejao might make $7M and that makes Z look even better. He's poorly utilized by an unskilled coaching staff. He's not young, but I could see a team like Seattle taking an interest, especially if they want to get something for free agent Rashard Lewis. Z could work quite well next to a Kevin Durant in Seattle and he'd be paid much less than Lewis for a shorter term.
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Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:40 pm

This is idle speculation (obviously), but Z strikes me as a guy who would rather retire than be traded at this point in his career. Moving him might not be feasible for that reason.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:54 pm

HermanFontenot wrote:This is idle speculation (obviously), but Z strikes me as a guy who would rather retire than be traded at this point in his career. Moving him might not be feasible for that reason.

I would agree with that 100%. He's lived here his whole life, has banked tens and tens of millions of dollars, and has stated his desire to play nowhere else. Add in the personal strife he and his wife went through this year, and I cannot see any chance of him being moved. He'd hang em up.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:11 pm

Mac, didn't Hughes get a $2M bump for each year of the remainder of his contract for the Cavs winning 48+ games? I recall a thread about that back in Feb/March that was from Windhorst or someone that said Hughes had an incentive clause in his contract that if the Cavs reached a certain win threshold this year, he gets a $2M bump per for the remainder of his contract.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:34 pm

Swerb wrote:
HermanFontenot wrote:This is idle speculation (obviously), but Z strikes me as a guy who would rather retire than be traded at this point in his career. Moving him might not be feasible for that reason.

I would agree with that 100%. He's lived here his whole life, has banked tens and tens of millions of dollars, and has stated his desire to play nowhere else. Add in the personal strife he and his wife went through this year, and I cannot see any chance of him being moved. He'd hang em up.


To add to this, he's also a guy who has found a home in the Greater Cleveland Lithuanian community. He is a big heritage guy and likes Cleveland because of the friends he's found in this respect. Also a Tribe season ticket holder who actually goes to many of the games, for waht that is worth.
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Re: Tidbits from Windhorst

Unread postby DarNoor » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:23 pm

StewieG wrote::

--Dan Gilbert has cleared Danny Ferry to go into the luxury tax. By the way, this is no small feat. Just ask some other GMs.




How refreshing is it to have an owner that isn't afraid to spend money in order to bring a winner to this town?!?
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Re: Tidbits from Windhorst

Unread postby consigliere » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:30 pm

DarNoor wrote:How refreshing is it to have an owner that isn't afraid to spend money in order to bring a winner to this town?!?


Is this really a surprise though? The Cavaliers are making money hand over fist right now. While it is nice to hear, it's not like Gilbert is spending out of his own pocket. Just means he takes in less revenues and has a few less yachts. :mrgreen:
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Re: Tidbits from Windhorst

Unread postby Dozen » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 pm

Consigliere wrote:
DarNoor wrote:How refreshing is it to have an owner that isn't afraid to spend money in order to bring a winner to this town?!?


Is this really a surprise though? The Cavaliers are making money hand over fist right now. While it is nice to hear, it's not like Gilbert is spending out of his own pocket. Just means he takes in less revenues and has a few less yachts. :mrgreen:


When you have Dolan as your neighbor it is refreshing. You cannot expect an owner to go into the luxury tax just because they are profitable right now.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:22 am

Consigliere wrote:Mac, didn't Hughes get a $2M bump for each year of the remainder of his contract for the Cavs winning 48+ games? I recall a thread about that back in Feb/March that was from Windhorst or someone that said Hughes had an incentive clause in his contract that if the Cavs reached a certain win threshold this year, he gets a $2M bump per for the remainder of his contract.


It could be, but some of those incentives actually don't fall into the cap number - at least not now. I believe they actually had to be built into the first two years of the contract. The CBA is kinda hazy about incentive clauses that relate to team and not individual performance. The hit may be retrograded in the same season after the team reaches the win mark. In essence it would mean that Hughes got a $2M bump this year - and I think that may be right because I did think Hughes' number was in the $13M range two months ago.

I know his reported worth for next year, even after the Cavs won 50, is $12M versus his $15M salary this season.

As for Z, he might rather retire. I don't see him as a big detriment at this point. I would like to see us find a solid backup for him who can essentially split minutes or play more minutes. I still like Mihm if he's fully recovered. He's not the same guy he was when in Cleveland. He's gotten better in LA. His defense has improved, his rebounding as gotten better, and his offensive game has improved. I wouldn't mind him seeing 20-25 minutes in combo with Z if healthy because I think he can play C in the East.
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Re: Tidbits from Windhorst

Unread postby DarNoor » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:32 pm

Consigliere wrote:
DarNoor wrote:How refreshing is it to have an owner that isn't afraid to spend money in order to bring a winner to this town?!?


Is this really a surprise though? The Cavaliers are making money hand over fist right now. While it is nice to hear, it's not like Gilbert is spending out of his own pocket. Just means he takes in less revenues and has a few less yachts. :mrgreen:


He could very easily just put those profits in his pocket. But, he isn't. He's putting them back into the team.
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Unread postby jfiling » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:46 pm

Not saying this is a great idea, but doesn't the "Ilgauskas would rather retire than be traded" thing maybe work in the Cavs favor? He's making $11-12 million per year, and if he retired wouldn't that come off the books for free agent signings?

I'm just wondering if that money couldn't be used better on one or two free agents, not saying we should do it. In other words, what do you think?
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Unread postby pup » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:49 pm

So you want to tell a guy that has spent his entire career in Cleveland, worked hard to overcome multiple injuries and just went through 2 still born children that we are going to trade him just to make him retire so we can improve?


Carlos Boozer would be leary of that kind of move.
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Unread postby Dozen » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:23 pm

jfiling wrote:Not saying this is a great idea, but doesn't the "Ilgauskas would rather retire than be traded" thing maybe work in the Cavs favor? He's making $11-12 million per year, and if he retired wouldn't that come off the books for free agent signings?

I'm just wondering if that money couldn't be used better on one or two free agents, not saying we should do it. In other words, what do you think?


Nope, go look who's on the knicks salary cap.

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Unread postby Dozen » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:28 pm

53. How do retired players count against the cap?

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired. For example, James Worthy retired in 1994, two years before his contract ended. He continued to receive his salary for the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, so his salary was included in the Lakers' team salary in those seasons. It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.


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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:35 pm

As dozen showed from Larry Coon's excellent CBA FAQ, Z's salary can be excluded if he chooses not to take his remaining salary. He can retire and still be paid. If he gets paid then he still counts.
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Unread postby jfiling » Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:40 pm

I'm confused:

It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

Assuming that's not a misprint, wouldn't it be up to the Cavs to decide whether or not to pay Z if he retired?

At this point, I'm just asking from a hypothetical standpoint, and also to find out if I'm missing something really obvious.
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Unread postby Dozen » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:34 pm

jfiling wrote:I'm confused:

It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

Assuming that's not a misprint, wouldn't it be up to the Cavs to decide whether or not to pay Z if he retired?

At this point, I'm just asking from a hypothetical standpoint, and also to find out if I'm missing something really obvious.


The player would have to agree not to get paid as well as the team.
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Unread postby jb » Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:38 pm

Kobe Bryant possibly being traded to Chicago scares the bejesus out of me.


I'd be exstatic. Kobe would destroy that team, and they probably have to part with Gordon, at least Hinerich for certain.

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Re: Tidbits from Windhorst

Unread postby swerb » Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:24 am

Consigliere wrote:
DarNoor wrote:How refreshing is it to have an owner that isn't afraid to spend money in order to bring a winner to this town?!?


Is this really a surprise though? The Cavaliers are making money hand over fist right now. While it is nice to hear, it's not like Gilbert is spending out of his own pocket. Just means he takes in less revenues and has a few less yachts. :mrgreen:

You also gotta remember, Gilbert has some other businesses that are thriving right now.

Fathead is taking off.

Flash Seats is his as well, and he cashed in off that venture due to the Cavs playoff run. From what I've been told, he's also just starting the process of trying to sell Flash Seats to all the other professional sports teams in America.

I've also been told that Lake Erie Monsters season ticket sales have already surpassed the best year ever for Lumberjacks season ticket sales. While the Barons never drew, the 'Jacks had some good years here back in the mid 90s.

Lastly, while the mortgage business isn't booming right now, and the industry is contracting ... Quicken has increased their market share nationally, and by leaps and bounds locally.

Everything this guy touches turns to gold. He's doing very well financially right now.
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Re: Tidbits from Windhorst

Unread postby pod2dawg » Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:40 pm

Swerb wrote:
Everything this guy touches turns to gold. He's doing very well financially right now.


Exactly! We've got the right owner here. He's smart and careful. I hope not too patient.

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