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Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan.....

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Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan.....

Unread postby jb » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:28 pm

Sigh.....


http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/columnists/terry_pluto/17376177.htm

``We are hanging a banner in the building,'' Cavaliers General Manager Danny Ferry said Friday. ``It is not the ultimate banner that we want to hang, but it's still a championship banner.''


Actually, it isn't.

This is the attitude that creates the reality of 1948, 1964. NEVER. in this town.

If they hang a banner that says EC Champions after being pimp slapped by the Spurs, they should be ashamed and realize they are less than Men.
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:39 pm

Ugh.

I heard a called on Drennan's show last night mention "hey, we have an EC CHampionship to be proud of, and a banner we'll hang in the arena."

I'm proud of the EC Championship. But, are we getting back to that Era of Second Pla.....errr.....Champions bullshit from the Indians of the 90s? |-(
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Unread postby mswerb » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:03 pm

I have no problem with an Eastern Conference banner. Sure this is not THE banner to have, but it is a major accomplishment for the organization. We can not start bitching about not winning when no one gave them a chance in the first place. The Spurs are a class act and we lost to a better team. But you can not take away the fact that the Cavs are the 2007 Eastern Conference Champs.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:13 pm

C'Mon. The Cavs have had nothing to hang their hats on in 37 years. It sucks that they got swept, but should they just ignore the fact that they won the Eastern Conference this year?

It's not a national title of any kind, but it shows the Cavs are going in the right direction. Most teams out there would hang a banner if they won something like that.

It's bad to be satisfied with just an EC title but it's not bad to honor winning it. The Cavs and the city want and deserve more. They need to work to take the next step and give themselves a real shot to win a NBA title.

Not hanging a banner is a slap in the face to the accomplishment.
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Unread postby jb » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:26 pm

C'Mon. The Cavs have had nothing to hang their hats on in 37 years. It sucks that they got swept, but should they just ignore the fact that they won the Eastern Conference this year?



No. As you say, it is a hell of an accomplishment. Definately a point of pride.

It's not a championship.

Not hanging a banner is a slap in the face to the accomplishment.


Banners in basketball are for championships and the retired numbers of hall of fame quality players.

We won no form of any championship other than some made-for-TV marketing moment some Mad Ave pukes created to sell T shirts.

A banner from a championship loss and the retired numbers of good but not great players is a just another way we ask for derision and satisfy ourselves with mediocrity in this town, pretending it is excellence. Losers convince themselves that losing is winning. There is no shame at all in competing for a championship and losing unless you embrace the loss as victory.

We have to create pretend championships because we have none. It embarasses me as a fan. Frankly, Mac, I'm surprised someone like you doesn't get it. That is complimentary in intent.

The only banner I'd have up there were I Gibson is a great big qote from another Mac: "There is no substitute for Victory".

Then I 'd take down Bingo Smith's banner.
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Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:28 pm

As far as I know, every team in the league puts up banners for conference and divison championships.

Someone can tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

AFAIC, the only banner that need taken down is Brad Daugherty's. If the man can't even show up for his own ceremony, he doesn't deserve to be commemerated (sp).
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Unread postby consigliere » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:35 pm

The only time I've ever given a shit for a division or confernece flag ceremony was in 1995. When the Indians clinched the division that night on Sept 8th if I recall against the Orioles, they all walked out to the outfield wall and Murray, Lofton, Hershiser and others raised the AL Central Division champion flag.

To me, that had a ton of meaning.....making the playoffs for the first time in 40 years. Also, if you make the playoffs in baseball, that is an accomplishment.

But as for the rest of the Indians division and AL pennant banners and flags.....feh.
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:16 am

Consigliere wrote:The only time I've ever given a shit for a division or confernece flag ceremony was in 1995. When the Indians clinched the division that night on Sept 8th if I recall against the Orioles, they all walked out to the outfield wall and Murray, Lofton, Hershiser and others raised the AL Central Division champion flag.

To me, that had a ton of meaning.....making the playoffs for the first time in 40 years. Also, if you make the playoffs in baseball, that is an accomplishment.

But as for the rest of the Indians division and AL pennant banners and flags.....feh.


So, by your own definition, that this is the first time the Cavs have EVER won the Eastern Conference has a ton of meaning and is an accomplishment. If we win the division and the conference more times than not over the next several years, then as you say, "feh."

Just because we didn't win it all doesn't mean we should completely dismiss what the Cavs did this season.
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Unread postby jb » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:28 am

Hi Oktane wrote:Just because we didn't win it all doesn't mean we should completely dismiss what the Cavs did this season.


Dawg, there's being dismissive of great accomplishment, and there's hanging a championship baner when you didn't win a championship.

Blank and white, night and day, apples and oranges, starfruit and kumquats.

Flying a league apnnant in baseball has a distinctive history. It obviously goes back to the days of no divisions and watered down playoffs to when having the best record for 154 was huge. Like many things in baseball, it is a tradition.

The NFL has trophey traditions that go back to the merger.

Look, I've been an NBA p-i-m-p since I was a shorty. My first recollection was marvelling at Kareem's ability and touch and watching amazed as Cowens and Hondo beat Kareem, Babby Dandrige and the Big O on pure will. Been addicted to The Association ever since. And I swear to you, and as always I cold be wrong, but I do not ever recall that anyone gave a rat's ass about winning a geograhpic confrence as tantamount to a championship in the NBA until the last couple seasons, if not starting w/ this one. Getting to the Finals' was never viewed as being a "championship" as far as I recall until recently, if not just this season. It is an artificial creation for hype and marketing becasue apparently, ratings-wise, the game can't sell itself anymore.


Now I'm gonna offend everyone, and I only mean to offend on this issue, not diss you all personally as people or hate on y'all, so get as nasty as you wanna be back at me on this one if I piss yah off. I'm wearing cyber kevlar and the asthbestos suit. But the fact that there is no shame and horror of this pretend championship being celebrated by the Cavs by hanging a championship banner is more disturbing to me than them actually doing it. Then I remember I am in Cleveland.

And some fans think Cleveland fan are negative? HAH! We're the biggest bunch of loyal puppy dogs who love teams nearly unconditionally on the planet. We're like Cub fans for all our teams. I am convinced this mindset and culture allows owners to exist in ths town to rest easy and helps perpetuate 1948, 1964, Never.

Good season.
Great playoff run until the Finals when we peed the rug.
Enjoy it.
Appreciate it.
Get amped that it is a springboard for good things to come.
Recognize it as a "championship" ?

N-E-V-E-R!
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Unread postby jb » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:33 am

HermanFontenot wrote:As far as I know, every team in the league puts up banners for conference and divison championships.

Someone can tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.



Shot of TD Wtarehouse rafters here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4356575027941283504&q=boston+celtics

Staples Center:



Image

Close up:

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/1103018341042341001WTXFUf

It's all about excellence.
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Unread postby Eric » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:43 am

I say hang it up, it may not be a true championship as you think of it, but they were the Easter Conference Champions, which in itself is an accomplishment, something to be proud of, and something to build from.

it is something to be proud of regardless. Sorry JB the Cavs dont have the history of excellence that the Lakers have.... HANG UP THE BANNER!

plus why should any of us get pissed off, you will are the one who is crying about a banner lol
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:40 am

Im with JB here. No title, no banner. Nexy year the modus operandi will be title or bust, and looking up at bannerless rafters would only help fuel that fire. And also reaffirm the orgs position that nothing less is acceptable.
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Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:28 pm

Question.

If 1964 were 1987, or 1995, or 1997... would it make a difference here?
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Unread postby Eric » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:28 pm

I dunno this thread just seems kindof meaningless to me. they were not the NBA champions but they were the eastern conference champions so why not put up the ECC banner? The Palace at Auburn Hills has their ECC banners up... I'm sure that most arenas do that dont have a ton of NBA championships already. The banner doesnt say "2nd place" on it... and it doesnt mean 2nd place, it means they were the champions of the eastern conference, which in and of itself is an accomplishment, regardless of the NBA Finals.

So my feeling is... who cares if they put it up or not? By not putting it up is it going to make a statement? Hell No. The fans and the team are all disappointed they didnt win it all, but they are the eastern conference champions, which is something to be proud of nonetheless. If fuel in the fire has to come from wether or not an ECC banner is up or not, then god help us.
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Unread postby FUDU » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:42 pm

I just look at it like this, it has little to do with the banners themselves but what the franchise decides to make the banners represent.

If the banners are put up for the purpose of recognizing we had a very good season in which we won our conference then OK fine.

If they put the banners up to somehow signify we are champions or are in an "era" of champions then I have a problem. The worst thing the franchise can do is give the impression that they are satisfied or content with what we did or that what we did was special in the overall scope of the NBA (it wasn't there are obviously dozens of teams that have accomplished what we did this year). Even though they might not be satisfied, by putting up these banners (depending on what the banners say on them) it might just give that impression to the fans and the league.

That is not a good impression to give off IMO.
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Unread postby jb » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:38 am

HermanFontenot wrote:Question.

If 1964 were 1987, or 1995, or 1997... would it make a difference here?


Oh, big time.

Withe the BoSox, it was a Red Sox thing. With the Cubs, it is a Cubs thing. Here? It's a Cleveland thing.

Ever since the Browns trifecta of choke any Cleveland team that gets close carries with it an incredible burdon. It is unfair, really. But it is what it is. You saw the hype, even the nation gets it partially now, they are wise to the concept that TCE exists. Thye don't know it on the emotional level, but they know it exists.

When the vast majority of your fan base has championship blue balls, having a title 10 years ago wold make a big difference.
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Unread postby dpdad » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:01 am

Image

A banner from a championship loss and the retired numbers of good but not great players is a just another way we ask for derision and satisfy ourselves with mediocrity in this town, pretending it is excellence.


Point well taken. I tend to be a purist about this kind of thing myself. I know the Cavs will hang a banner for the EC championship. While it is a good accomplishment, it is not a world championship. Do the Celtics hang banners for conference or division championships? Doesn't look like it to me.
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Unread postby mattvan1 » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:36 am

Question.

If 1964 were 1987, or 1995, or 1997... would it make a difference here?


Without a doubt, as I would have been old enough to participate and celebrate, and in '95 and '97 my kids would have at least been born. Something in the next few years would be nice, so I could bear witness with my kids.
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Unread postby Eric » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:10 am

again, you guys are comparing us to
A) the Lakers,
and
B) the Celtics

while I think its great that we should apparantly be mentioned in the same breath as some of the greatest franchises ever, I think it's completely ridiculous that you are not accepting the fact that we have ONE banner in our entire history as a franchise, and danny ferry would like to put that banner up..... big deal

WOWOWOWOWOW
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Unread postby hermanfontenot » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:39 pm

Ever since the Browns trifecta of choke any Cleveland team that gets close carries with it an incredible burdon. It is unfair, really. But it is what it is.


I acknowledge that, but I don't like it. It's tough enough to win a championship without throwing that extra baggage on top. Nothing good can come of it. The Curse, TCE, call it what you will- it adds to the degree of difficulty. I really believe that.

Cases in point: the Cubs and the White Sox. Whenever the Cubs get close, they implode under the weight of all of the ghosts that chase that franchise around. The White Sox went almost as long without a sausage as the North Siders, but they never had to labor under the perception of a curse. When they had their chance, in 2005, they went ahead and got it done. They had no added pressure, or at any rate not nearly as much as the Cubs.

I don't see any way of not putting 43 years on the shoulders of our guys. I just wish there was one.
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Unread postby jb » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:42 pm

Eric wrote:again, you guys are comparing us to
A) the Lakers,
and
B) the Celtics

while I think its great that we should apparantly be mentioned in the same breath as some of the greatest franchises ever, I think it's completely ridiculous that you are not accepting the fact that we have ONE banner in our entire history as a franchise, and danny ferry would like to put that banner up..... big deal

WOWOWOWOWOW


My friend, the Browns were those teams up until the early 60's.
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Unread postby Eric » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:50 pm

ok so Danny Ferry should hang 1960's Browns banners in the Q?
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