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Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

Cavs-Spurs - Game 2 Thread

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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:09 am

Ferry really screwed the pooch with his retail therapy session the year before last. We are left with out a single real contributer other thann Hughes so-so play, no impact layer next to Bron, and we are in cap lock down until Bron's deal runs out I think. Sucks. Is this correct? Mac? Anyone? Ev'ry one?


Not officially. The final guaranteed year of LeBron's contract only has $40M on the books, but not many players under contract. If Z decides not to take his option then there's only $29M on the books.

I'm still convinced that Hughes' so-so play is due to the fact that he's not a fit for this team. He still does have trade value because other teams also know he's not a fit for us. His primary skill is penetration and not spot-up shooting. There are teams that have little or no penetrating players. Seattle is one, so I can see the Cavs pursuing a Rashard Lewis sign-and-trade with Hughes being the key component. The Cavs also have $3.4M in an ending contract next year that can assist in trades because Ira Newble's entering his last year. The Sonics also might be willing to swap Snow for Watson in a larger trade due to Snow's contract ending earlier.

Sasha Pavlovic also has some value in trade. I don't see him staying next year so the Cavs need to try to get something for him. He's out of position and works best as a small forward.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:24 am

Why would Z NOT exercise that option?

And, we don't need more players like Drew Gooden. The fact that he wants to be here pales in comparison to the fact that every other game you don't even know if the guy is on the roster. Completely undependable and contains a trait opposite that of most winning players, that is, the guy just isn't too bright.
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Unread postby JoelHammond » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:40 am

I think this thread should be Exhibit No. 1 when people from out of town make fun of (the whole, not every single) Browns, Indians and Cavs fans.

Is everyone on this thread a heavy drinker, or has all of this been 100% serious? Do you ever go back and read what you write? It's actually quite embarrassing.

I think I may take a collection from this thread and write my next Swerbs piece from that. If you have any suggestions, PM me.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:52 am

Lead Pipe wrote:Why would Z NOT exercise that option?


Well, Z is a strange bird. He waited without a contract, giving the Cavs cap flexibility when he could have earned more on the open market. I think he still feels that he owes the org, although different people are in power now, because they stood by him when he had his foot problems. If the FO asked him to decline the final year option to give the Cavs some cap room so they could really build more around James, I wouldn't be surprised if Ilgauskas did as asked. Most players wouldn't, but Z is not most players.

And, we don't need more players like Drew Gooden. The fact that he wants to be here pales in comparison to the fact that every other game you don't even know if the guy is on the roster. Completely undependable and contains a trait opposite that of most winning players, that is, the guy just isn't too bright.


I think Gooden is another piece of trade bait. We don't care for him, but other teams still like him, see potential, and think he's misused. The Knicks were reportedly interested in a Gooden-for-Frye deal last year and I'd seriously consider that if it's still on the table, though I see Frye more as a center.
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Unread postby StewieG » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:07 pm

We are a reliable front court scorer and legit PG away from mathcing up agianst the best of the west. When I write this, I mean all-star calibur at both, not jabroni. Let Boobie be spot up instant offense, not saddle him w/ ball responsibilties.


Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. You go and get someone who can actually score inside, and a PG to run the team who isn't a complete liability on either offense or defense, and we're a championship caliber team.

And yes, I give Hughes props for coming out and playing with a painful injury. But he is killing us, and should play no more. And he most certainly should not start, because he costs this team about 15 points on both ends of the floor every 8 minutes he's out there. We can't expect to come back from 15 down in the first quarter every game. He can't shoot, he can't make a layup, and he can no longer defend. It's time to put that dog to sleep.

And Shannon Brown really needs to play. Really. Unless he's still injured, which I don't think so. Put him on Parker, and see what he can do. At the very least, he can't play any worse than Hughes and Pavlovich, who has turned into a turnover machine.
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Unread postby jb » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:53 pm

JoelHammond wrote:I think this thread should be Exhibit No. 1 when people from out of town make fun of (the whole, not every single) Browns, Indians and Cavs fans.

Is everyone on this thread a heavy drinker, or has all of this been 100% serious? Do you ever go back and read what you write? It's actually quite embarrassing.

I think I may take a collection from this thread and write my next Swerbs piece from that. If you have any suggestions, PM me.


Gonna keep us all in suspense as to why you pass such judgement and WTF you mean? I'm just sayin' you come off a tad bit judgemental without saying anything.

hey, the national medai doesn't make fun of us fans at all. Did you sleep through the hype? They love and respect us for being there for the worst collection of teams in existance. We top the sports misery index and all we got as fans were mad propers all week in the build up. They make fun of our TEAMS, but not us.

So if you got something to bring, why not bring it? This is a pretty good group to discuss with without anyone getting nasty as far as I can tell.
Last edited by jb on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby jb » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:54 pm

StewieG wrote:
We are a reliable front court scorer and legit PG away from mathcing up agianst the best of the west. When I write this, I mean all-star calibur at both, not jabroni. Let Boobie be spot up instant offense, not saddle him w/ ball responsibilties.


Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. You go and get someone who can actually score inside, and a PG to run the team who isn't a complete liability on either offense or defense, and we're a championship caliber team.

And yes, I give Hughes props for coming out and playing with a painful injury. But he is killing us, and should play no more. And he most certainly should not start, because he costs this team about 15 points on both ends of the floor every 8 minutes he's out there. We can't expect to come back from 15 down in the first quarter every game. He can't shoot, he can't make a layup, and he can no longer defend. It's time to put that dog to sleep.

And Shannon Brown really needs to play. Really. Unless he's still injured, which I don't think so. Put him on Parker, and see what he can do. At the very least, he can't play any worse than Hughes and Pavlovich, who has turned into a turnover machine.


Dawg, what you really expect Shannon Brown to do at this point against the Spurs ? He's played like 20 minutes all season. I know there's a certain amount of frustration, but...
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:13 pm

Gonna keep us all in suspense as to why you pass such judgement and WTF you mean? I'm just sayin' you come off a tad bit judgemental without saying anything.

hey, the national medai doesn't make fun of us fans at all. Did you sleep through the hype? They love and respect us for being there for the worst collection of teams in existance. We top the sports misery index and all we got as fans were mad propers all week in the build up. They make fun of our TEAMS, but not us.

So if you got something to bring, why not bring it? This is a pretty good group to discuss with without anyone getting nasty as far as I can tell.


Guess you are going to have to wait for the article. :roll :roll:
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Unread postby JoelHammond » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:30 pm

Pup wrote:
Gonna keep us all in suspense as to why you pass such judgement and WTF you mean? I'm just sayin' you come off a tad bit judgemental without saying anything.

hey, the national medai doesn't make fun of us fans at all. Did you sleep through the hype? They love and respect us for being there for the worst collection of teams in existance. We top the sports misery index and all we got as fans were mad propers all week in the build up. They make fun of our TEAMS, but not us.

So if you got something to bring, why not bring it? This is a pretty good group to discuss with without anyone getting nasty as far as I can tell.


Guess you are going to have to wait for the article. :roll :roll:



From the frist page alone:

"Oh well.
It was fun while it lasted.
We'll always have Detroit.
This series is over."



"Yep. G'night Irene. They are still playing like 8 special olympians and Bron."


"down 15
not gonna happen tonight
im embarrassed to be a cavs fan at the moment
why is james sitting still?
WTF is brown on crack?"


"brown is a fuckign waste of a brain!!!
we coudl be tied if he put james back in when we were within 3
WTF IS WRONG WITH HIM!!!?!?!?!?"


"someone tell the cavs the special olympics are in a few months"

There is a perception nationwide, or at least the corners of the country in which I've visited/lived, that all fans in this town ever do is bitch. That nothing is ever good enough. Threads like this one back that up.

JB, the first comment is yours, if I'm not mistaken. The series is over? Really? Have the Cavs not won three and four games, respectively, the last two times they were down 0-2?

Everything that happens around here will end the world in the eyes of the fans in this town. I'm by no means saying the Cavs will beat the Spurs. But, "I'm embarrassed to be a Cavs fan right now?" I know that was "GET WEDGE OUT NOW," but I'm pretty damn proud to be a Cavs fan right now, no matter what happens in this series.

If I was nasty, I apologize. I meant my post to be in more of a mocking, incredulous tone.
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:41 pm

JoelHammond wrote:Everything that happens around here will end the world in the eyes of the fans in this town. I'm by no means saying the Cavs will beat the Spurs. But, "I'm embarrassed to be a Cavs fan right now?" I know that was "GET WEDGE OUT NOW," but I'm pretty damn proud to be a Cavs fan right now, no matter what happens in this series.


Joel, how can we NOT be embarassed? Yeah, we made the Finals. Yippee! We had our fun celebratin that for four days last week. But, right now, we are getting absolutely SMOKED and we are sure giving the national media all the need to backup their assertion that we are one of the worst Finals participants ever.

We are not done, but are pretty close to it. Absolutely NO margin for error at home. Have to win them all. 2 out of 3 won't even be enough. We have to save face though and go out and put up a maximum effort in Game 3 and try to steal one. If we get swept, what a huge disappointment to the postseason.
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Unread postby comish » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:41 pm

JoelHammond wrote:I think this thread should be Exhibit No. 1 when people from out of town make fun of (the whole, not every single) Browns, Indians and Cavs fans.

Is everyone on this thread a heavy drinker, or has all of this been 100% serious? Do you ever go back and read what you write? It's actually quite embarrassing.

I think I may take a collection from this thread and write my next Swerbs piece from that. If you have any suggestions, PM me.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the PERFECT place to vent? Being a die-hard sports fan involves, from time to time, a little bridge jumping . . . Cleveland fans could give diving lessons. I think it is sad that you think so much of yourself as to ridicule the feelings of others.

YOUR POST is exhibit #1 of an internet journalist who obviously thinks more of himself than the general public does. (I really don't know and don't care who you are) The fascilitators of this site need to be wary of a bad reputation of writers/posters who are too quick to look down their nose at others. It's a good way for a great web site to die in a hurry.
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Unread postby JoelHammond » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:52 pm

Consigliere wrote:
JoelHammond wrote:Everything that happens around here will end the world in the eyes of the fans in this town. I'm by no means saying the Cavs will beat the Spurs. But, "I'm embarrassed to be a Cavs fan right now?" I know that was "GET WEDGE OUT NOW," but I'm pretty damn proud to be a Cavs fan right now, no matter what happens in this series.


We are not done, but are pretty close to it. Absolutely NO margin for error at home. Have to win them all. 2 out of 3 won't even be enough. We have to save face though and go out and put up a maximum effort in Game 3 and try to steal one. If we get swept, what a huge disappointment to the postseason.


Agree with that, very very little margin for error.

And there's no doubt a sweep or a five-game loss will be disappointing after the Detroit series. But, objectively, can you honestly say this Cavs team ISN'T one of the worst Finals teams of all-time? Is there evidence to the contrary?

If nothing else, Brown, LeBron, etc. should be praised for doing with this collection what they've done. It's astonishing. And I've enjoyed every minute of the wins, hated every one of the losses.

But if this run ends in a sweep, or a five-game loss, don't you have to tip your hat, find better offense and attempt to do it again next year?

It's hard to find a happy medium, for sure. You want to go nuts and swear Brown up and down and Snow and Marshall and everyone .... But you're also proud of what they've done this year.

I for one don't think the accomplishments should be lost. But, I've been wrong before.

And comish, trust me, I think very little of myself, so no worries. I highly doubt my opinions, obviously in the minority, will ruin the great product Rich has going here. If they are, I trust Rich will make the right decision and remove the aforementioned opinions.
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Unread postby jb » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:01 pm

JoelHammond wrote:
Pup wrote:
Gonna keep us all in suspense as to why you pass such judgement and WTF you mean? I'm just sayin' you come off a tad bit judgemental without saying anything.

hey, the national medai doesn't make fun of us fans at all. Did you sleep through the hype? They love and respect us for being there for the worst collection of teams in existance. We top the sports misery index and all we got as fans were mad propers all week in the build up. They make fun of our TEAMS, but not us.

So if you got something to bring, why not bring it? This is a pretty good group to discuss with without anyone getting nasty as far as I can tell.


Guess you are going to have to wait for the article. :roll :roll:



From the frist page alone:

"Oh well.
It was fun while it lasted.
We'll always have Detroit.
This series is over."



"Yep. G'night Irene. They are still playing like 8 special olympians and Bron."


"down 15
not gonna happen tonight
im embarrassed to be a cavs fan at the moment
why is james sitting still?
WTF is brown on crack?"


"brown is a fuckign waste of a brain!!!
we coudl be tied if he put james back in when we were within 3
WTF IS WRONG WITH HIM!!!?!?!?!?"


"someone tell the cavs the special olympics are in a few months"

There is a perception nationwide, or at least the corners of the country in which I've visited/lived, that all fans in this town ever do is bitch. That nothing is ever good enough. Threads like this one back that up.

JB, the first comment is yours, if I'm not mistaken. The series is over? Really? Have the Cavs not won three and four games, respectively, the last two times they were down 0-2?

Everything that happens around here will end the world in the eyes of the fans in this town. I'm by no means saying the Cavs will beat the Spurs. But, "I'm embarrassed to be a Cavs fan right now?" I know that was "GET WEDGE OUT NOW," but I'm pretty damn proud to be a Cavs fan right now, no matter what happens in this series.

If I was nasty, I apologize. I meant my post to be in more of a mocking, incredulous tone.


Dawg, you don't mean to apologize. It is just that I find this domain to have a really good group of dudes who seem to be able to go at it pretty good without discussion immediately disintigrating into a flame war, and I had no idea where you were going.

I am also proud of what this bunch has done collectively this post season, too. My tongue is in cheek when I say we'll always have Detroit, but look how we hang onto the 1975 Bullets series.

A few thoughts....

One, these comments were all made during the game by us real-time. If you can't give us some license to vent while we were watching that beat down, then I think you are being unreasonable. Or Bob Collins ghosting. One or the other.

"Oh well.
It was fun while it lasted.
We'll always have Detroit.
This series is over."

"Yep. G'night Irene. They are still playing like 8 special olympians and Bron."


I wasn't wrong last night. I'm still not wrong. So what is your point here?

That I should fawn while they suck nuts or I am a bad fan? I can't, brah. That's not the kind of fan I am. I tell it like it is and if that be fanatical or mercurial, so be it.

You could see real-time by the end of quarter one by how this team was playing dumb, mistake filled basketball, and the Spurs were doing their '86 Celtics impersonation of playing error free ball, that we were hosed. That meant we'd be a dog down 0 - 2. I really don't care if the lead was cut to 7 in garbage time only to have the Spurs again swat us back. It was over. And while it is true we CAN theoretically win 4 of the next 5 vs a team that has shredded us but good thus far, intellectually, I'm not buyin' it my friend. Unless you can convince me by giving me that long list of underdog teams that came back after being down 0 - 2 in Finals' series.

Bring it. Go ahead. You want to diss me? Dazzle me. Show me how this thing is still in the blanace.

Teams that win Finals series after being down 0 - 2 are like hens' teeth. Prohibitive dog teams that have done so are like mega millions lotto tickets, if they exist at all. You know that. I know that. I know you know that. You know that I know that you know that.

So let's get past the nonsense & rhetoric and faux horror and disgust like yer a Victorian Englishwoman who just saw her first lap dancer, mmmm kay?

Last night was THE game we HAD to win to make it a realistic series, and in every way, shape and form we absoultely shit the bed. We just did. Oh well. Great season, great run, but realistically speaking in terms of any case study or odds you can cite, it is over. I don't see how this makes me a bad fan that the whole nation should scorn.

Just a realistic one who understands history.

There is a perception nationwide, or at least the corners of the country in which I've visited/lived, that all fans in this town ever do is bitch. That nothing is ever good enough. Threads like this one back that up.


No sale Joel. In fact, the places I've been and people I've conversed with tell it the opposite way. They tell us we are homers and huckleberries, who give our biases to second rate teams without objectivity. We have the rep as tremendous fans, better than our teams deserve, among the most loyal and the best in the nation. You want bitcing and a rep for bitching? It's about Philly, Boston and New York; the eastern megalopolis fans. You want a rep for spoiled? LA and Dallas.

But it has actually been my experience that we're really not all that different. Fans of cities bandwagon when things go well, they curse irrationally when things go badly, and are generally more apathetic than most think except for a core. I think this is where C-town fan has the haerder time accepting reality, but the facts are the Jake is still not a draw except for fireworks nights for a 1st place team (for now) and CBS is almost empty every game by the midle of the 4th quarter. Sacralidge , I know.

But I'm wichu on the heart holding out hope. Mine still does. Because I am emotional. That is why I watch sports. And emotions are double edged swords.

I hope you post often, Joel. Contrarian views are cool and good for boards. Wrong, but hey.... :P :-P :razz:

j/k

Go Cavs!

Edited to resemble English....
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Unread postby consigliere » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:15 pm

JoelHammond wrote:If nothing else, Brown, LeBron, etc. should be praised for doing with this collection what they've done. It's astonishing. And I've enjoyed every minute of the wins, hated every one of the losses.


Praised for what? Winning a shitty East which is comparable to what the Indians did in the AL Central in the 90s? Then again, we are good at praising with all that "Era of CHampions" BS the Indians did in the 90s. They won five straight Central titles, and praise themselves.

Lebron deserves praise for his Game 5 heroics in the EC FInals...and the team needs congratulated on making the NBA FInals. But praise? Nah.

But if this run ends in a sweep, or a five-game loss, don't you have to tip your hat, find better offense and attempt to do it again next year?

It's hard to find a happy medium, for sure. You want to go nuts and swear Brown up and down and Snow and Marshall and everyone .... But you're also proud of what they've done this year.


I tip my hat and look forward to next year. But, the problem is, and I know several others see it this way.....is how does this team improve with no cap space, draft picks or anything? We'll touch on the offseason when it gets here, but the looming offseason is why so many are taking this FInals gack to date so hard. We know this was a HUGE opp. There is no guarante we ever get back here again.
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Unread postby pup » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:56 pm

There is a perception nationwide, or at least the corners of the country in which I've visited/lived, that all fans in this town ever do is bitch. That nothing is ever good enough. Threads like this one back that up.


Um, Dude, is there a city with a fanbase that deserves to bitch more than this one? Name me a city, with 3 pro teams, with fans who live and die more than Cleveland Fans with their teams, and hasn't won more than a conference title (all 3 of them) in 40+ years.

This board has some of the best, most insightful fans on it. I was as harsh on some of them for the defeatist attitude after game 1 as you could be.

We all expected to see a different Cav team in Game 2. The coaching staff would make some adjustments and we would be improve. Instead, WE GO DOWN 20+ POINTS in the first quarter. And you don't think, people have the right to bitch?

If other cities don't go to message boards during games and complain that their team is playing like shit, then I would have a hard time considering them fans at all.

My problem with statements like yours, and this is a more concerning issue to me and what people I know from all over the country say about us, is that we are OK with being OK. The slightest hint of a team being HALFWAY FUCKING DECENT in this city makes people talk SB, WS, NBA title. Yet, we fall short, and someone like you tells us we should be fine with what was accomplished.

2nd place is simply the 1st loser, and I am sick of being a loser.

Game 3, we will see a different Cavalier performance. And if we don't, we will have 250 posts bashing them for it. I suggest, if you aren't interested in what we have to say, don't read.
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Unread postby hermanfontenot » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:06 pm

We'll touch on the offseason when it gets here, but the looming offseason is why so many are taking this FInals gack to date so hard. We know this was a HUGE opp. There is no guarante we ever get back here again.


This isn't a huge opportunity. The huge opportunity was to make the first-ever trip to the Finals, and we've taken advantage of it. That, to me, was the beauty of the Washington-New Jersey draw: the chance to cruise through the first two rounds without breaking a sweat, so we'd have plenty left in the tank against Detroit. And it all worked out.

But there is no golden opportunity to win it all this year. It doesn't exist, because, quite simply, we had and have zero chance to beat San Antonio in a best-of-seven series. We're not blowing anything- we're simply overmatched, the same way those Broncos teams were overmatched in those '80s Super Bowls. We're just not good enough to win this series.

So to an extent I agree with Joel, with a caveat- I said last night that I was okay with losing, because San Antonio is a far superior team to the Cavaliers, but that the effort the team has given the first two games is embarrassing. It will be no shame to lose this series. It will be a shame to lose playing the way this team is playing right now. If our team plays with pride and effort, I'll be proud of them and will hold my head high, no matter the outcome.

It's unfair to put 43 years on these guys. All we can ask is they do their best for this year and for themselves. Hopefully in Cleveland, they will.
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:11 pm

Consigliere wrote:We'll touch on the offseason when it gets here, but the looming offseason is why so many are taking this FInals gack to date so hard. We know this was a HUGE opp. There is no guarante we ever get back here again.


I get what Consig is saying in that we are NOT guaranteed to get back here again (case-in-point, the Indians first shot in the '90's was their best), and as such, it IS frustrating when you see the lack of effort or apparent "glad to be here" attitudes when we know this could be it.

I understand the frusration expressed by many (perhaps not most?) as this team has taken us on a roller-coaster ride all season - many have responded in kind. Sure, there are one or two over-the-top posters who, despite adding "entertainment" value, are never happy, but they are the minority. What this site offers us fans, in addition to great insight and unparalleled expert opinion, is an outlet to express our frustration/elation, so you see mostly the highs and the lows (really, who hasn't questioned Mike Brown's sanity at 120 decibles during the course of a game?) as opposed to the more well thought-out opinions, save for a few (mine of course :roll :roll: ). I'm guessing the "idiocy" bantered from time-to-time on this board parallels that of just about any other in any city.

I understand all this and take it all for what its worth. The only thorn in my side (and, again, it's personal preference) is posters debating ad-nauseum (not talking about the occasional, "How good would Joe Blow look in a Cavs uni") about what this team needs to do in the off-season. I, for one, can't understand why the hell we would even consider the off-season until the NBA FINALS, of which we are part of, is OFFICIALLY over. (Let's play a home game or two before running 1/2 the roster out of town.) There's plenty of time to debate what the Cavs should, should not do. I'd just as soon, though, leave it to Detroit Fan, and Heat Fan, and the fans of 28 other teams that wish we were here to do that right now.
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Unread postby jb » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:41 pm

JoelHammond wrote:
Pup wrote:
Gonna keep us all in suspense as to why you pass such judgement and WTF you mean? I'm just sayin' you come off a tad bit judgemental without saying anything.

hey, the national medai doesn't make fun of us fans at all. Did you sleep through the hype? They love and respect us for being there for the worst collection of teams in existance. We top the sports misery index and all we got as fans were mad propers all week in the build up. They make fun of our TEAMS, but not us.

So if you got something to bring, why not bring it? This is a pretty good group to discuss with without anyone getting nasty as far as I can tell.


Guess you are going to have to wait for the article. :roll :roll:



From the frist page alone:

"Oh well.
It was fun while it lasted.
We'll always have Detroit.
This series is over."



"Yep. G'night Irene. They are still playing like 8 special olympians and Bron."


"down 15
not gonna happen tonight
im embarrassed to be a cavs fan at the moment
why is james sitting still?
WTF is brown on crack?"


"brown is a fuckign waste of a brain!!!
we coudl be tied if he put james back in when we were within 3
WTF IS WRONG WITH HIM!!!?!?!?!?"


"someone tell the cavs the special olympics are in a few months"

There is a perception nationwide, or at least the corners of the country in which I've visited/lived, that all fans in this town ever do is bitch. That nothing is ever good enough. Threads like this one back that up.

JB, the first comment is yours, if I'm not mistaken. The series is over? Really? Have the Cavs not won three and four games, respectively, the last two times they were down 0-2?

Everything that happens around here will end the world in the eyes of the fans in this town. I'm by no means saying the Cavs will beat the Spurs. But, "I'm embarrassed to be a Cavs fan right now?" I know that was "GET WEDGE OUT NOW," but I'm pretty damn proud to be a Cavs fan right now, no matter what happens in this series.

If I was nasty, I apologize. I meant my post to be in more of a mocking, incredulous tone.


Dawg, you don't mean to apologize. It is just that I find this domain to have a really good group of dudes who seem to be able to go at it pretty good without discussion immediately disintigrating into a flame war, and I had no idea where you were going.

I am also proud of what this bunch has done collectively this post season, too. My tongue is in cheek when I say we'll always have Detroit, but look how we hang onto the 1975 Bullets series.

A few thoughts....

One, these comments were all made during the game by us real-time. If you can't give us some license to vent while we were watching that beat down, then I think you are being unreasonable. Or Bob Collins ghosting. One or the other.

"Oh well.
It was fun while it lasted.
We'll always have Detroit.
This series is over."

"Yep. G'night Irene. They are still playing like 8 special olympians and Bron."


I wasn't wrong last night. I'm still not wrong. So what is your point here?

That I should fawn while they suck nuts or I am a bad fan? I can't, brah. That's not the kind of fan I am. I tell it like it is and if that be fanatical or mercurial, so be it.

You could see real-time by the end of quarter one by how this team was playing dumb, mistake filled basketball, and the Spurs were doing their '86 Celtics impersonation of playing error free ball, that we were hosed. That meant we'd be a dog down 0 - 2. I really don't care if the lead was cut to 7 in garbage time only to have the Spurs again swat us back. It was over. And while it is true we CAN theoretically win 4 of the next 5 vs a team that has shredded us but good thus far, intellectually, I'm not buyin' it my friend. Unless you can convince me by giving me that long list of underdog teams that came back after being down 0 - 2 in Finals' series.

Bring it. Go ahead. You want to diss me? Dazzle me. Show me how this thing is still in the blanace.

(Here is a hint. It will take you 3 entries and this is the 60th Finals)

Teams that win Finals series after being down 0 - 2 are like hens' teeth. You know that. I know that. I know you know that. You know that I know that you know that.

So let's get past the rhetoric and faux horror and disgust as if a Victorian Englishwoman just saw her first lap dancer, mmmm kay?

Last night was THE game we HAD to win to make it a realistic series, and in every way, shape and form we absoultely shit the bed. We just did. Oh well. Great season, great run, but realistically speaking in terms of any case study or odds you can cite, it is over. I don't see how this makes me a bad fan that the whole nation should scorn.

Just a realistic one who understands history.

There is a perception nationwide, or at least the corners of the country in which I've visited/lived, that all fans in this town ever do is bitch. That nothing is ever good enough. Threads like this one back that up.


No sale Joel. In fact, the places I've been and people I've conversed with tell it the opposite way. They tell us we are homers and huckleberries, who give our biases to second rate teams without objectivity. We have the rep as tremendous fans, better than our teams deserve, among the most loyal and the best in the nation. You want bitcing and a rep for bitching? It's about Philly, Boston and New York; the eastern megalopolis fans. You want a rep for spoiled? LA and Dallas.

But it has actually been my experience that we're really not all that different. Fans of cities bandwagon when things go well, they curse irrationally when things go badly, and are generally more apathetic than most think except for a core. I think this is where C-town fan has the haerder time accepting reality, but the facts are the Jake is still not a draw except for fireworks nights for a 1st place team (for now) and CBS is almost empty every game by the midle of the 4th quarter. Sacralidge , I know.

But I'm wichu on the heart holding out hope. Mine still does. Because I am emotional. That is why I watch sports. And emotions are double edged swords.

I hope you post often, Joel. Contrarian views are cool and good for boards. Wrong, but hey.... :P :-P :razz:

j/k

Go Cavs!

Edited to resemble English....
Last edited by jb on Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby FUDU » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:17 pm

I understand the frusration expressed by many (perhaps not most?) as this team has taken us on a roller-coaster ride all season - many have responded in kind. Sure, there are one or two over-the-top posters who, despite adding "entertainment" value, are never happy, but they are the minority. What this site offers us fans, in addition to great insight and unparalleled expert opinion, is an outlet to express our frustration/elation, so you see mostly the highs and the lows (really, who hasn't questioned Mike Brown's sanity at 120 decibles during the course of a game?) as opposed to the more well thought-out opinions, save for a few (mine of course rolleyes ). I'm guessing the "idiocy" bantered from time-to-time on this board parallels that of just about any other in any city.


This whole paragraph needs to be taken in context.

We are all Cleveland Sports fans...meaning, we reserve the right.!!!!

Replace that "r" with a "d" and that statement still holds true. :-) :smile: :)
Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect.
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Unread postby jeck » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:18 pm

Pup wrote:2nd place is simply the 1st loser, and I am sick of being a loser.


Pup,


I don't think you're a loser! :lol:
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nm

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:10 am

nm
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Unread postby StewieG » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:34 pm

As far as Shannon Brown is concerned, I don't expect him to run point, I just expect him to guard the french guy. I would expect Snow/Jones/Boobie/Bron to run the offense - preferably as little as Snow and Jones as possible. Nobody else has worked, Hughes is killing us offensively and defensively, and Brown's supposed to be a good defender, so I say it's worth a shot.
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