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Bill Simmons Unloads On Roger Brown ...

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Bill Simmons Unloads On Roger Brown ...

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:01 pm

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blo ... e=20070604

6. Speaking of Bron, Kevin from Cleveland passed this along: "Here's a link from the News-Herald, a local paper just east of Cleveland, in which sportswriter Roger Brown puts you at No. 3 on the list of the six people who have done the most damage to their reputations since the Cavs-Pistons series. Here's what he wrote:

"Simmons spent months ripping and mocking James as an overhyped fraud -- and gained lots of national attention in the process. But after James' historic Game 5 performance, Simmons scrambled to save face in embarrassing fashion. He wrote a column on LeBron that was more slobbering and fawning than a 13-year-old girl writing a fan letter to Justin Timberlake."

Sorry, I have to respond to this one. First of all, if Roger can produce anything I've ever written that called him LeBron an "overhyped fraud," I will send him a $200 check to double the salary that the News-Herald is paying him every week. I think he has me confused with Charley Rosen.

Second, I love the idea that me "ripping" LeBron gained me national attention ... really? From who? Did I happen to be in a coma at the time? I criticized him in my Anna K. column from Miami (and rightfully so, Bron mailed in a game on national TV); my All-Star column from Vegas (where Bron's lack of enthusiasm for the season was a major topic, and if you don't believe me, check out the ESPN.com column by Brian Windhorst from March once LeBron started playing hard again, and this from a writer who's covered LeBron for his entire career); when LeBron made the absurd "global icon" comment; and a couple of times during the playoffs when Bron-Bron didn't seem properly enthused by the proceedings (and he wasn't). I don't regret a single thing I wrote about LeBron in the past year. Everything still stands.


And third, before Game 5 of the Detroit series, I picked the Cavs to win in 6 and wrote an extended section about LeBron showing signs of turning the corner and getting it in Games 3 and 4, to the point that I had my hopes up for Game 5 because there was a chance something truly special might happen. Here's the exact quote:

"The fact remains, No. 23 happens to be the only interesting thing about this painfully disjointed Pistons-Cavs series. ... Like many others, I'm looking forward to Game 5 solely because of LeBron. Like many others, I want him to shift into fifth gear, hush the crowd, rip Detroit's heart out and make the Vivid Video face after everything's said and done. Like many others, I will be disappointed if this doesn't happen."

Bottom line: If you're going to rip another writer, make sure you've actually read the guy first.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:03 pm

Simmons is confusing "verbatim" with "a commonly-understood reading."

Simmons is technically right, but Brown has more of a point than Simmons would like to admit.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:20 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:Simmons is confusing "verbatim" with "a commonly-understood reading."

Simmons is technically right, but Brown has more of a point than Simmons would like to admit.

I agree Buff. Simmons has been ruthless, and should have manned up and taken his medicine for an entire seasons worth of destroying this kid in his column.

Simmons said on multiple occassions that LeBrons game was regressing. That his career was heading down the same path as Martina Hingis and Eric Lindros. That if he was the new face of the NBA, he didn't want any part of it.

The Sniper Lives.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:30 pm

But was Simmons that far off with his thoughts back in Feb/March in regard to Lebron looking like he was regressing? Can't say he was wrong with those comments.

I absolutely LOVE what Lebron has done in the playoffs, but going forward we can't have him coasting through half the season or taking games/plays off on a weekly basis. It didn't come back to bit them this year, but will in the future. What Lebron has done these last four games is what people expect....and it is not unrealistic to expect that on a nightly basis from the face of the league.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:33 pm

But was Simmons that far off with his thoughts back in Feb/March in regard to Lebron looking like he was regressing?


Thats where Simmons was wrong. How the fuck does your game regress at 22?

Not playing balls to the wall and your game regressing are totally different things.
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Unread postby Wolfy » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:39 pm

:twisted: As a subscriber to the N-H for many years and a big time sports fan, it is a complete travesty, a sham and a mockery...A Traveshamockery (to quote the commercial) that the N-H has the balls to put this TOOLBOX on the same page as the world famous and hall of fame writer that Hal Lebovitz used to write on. Not only is Roger Brown one of the worst writers ever in the history of the once award winning N-H sport page, but they trumped that with one of the worst TV guy's of all time (Les Levine) and sandwiched this idiot with another dueschbag and put them on Hal's page? Excuse the language but WHAT A COMPLETE AND UTTER FUCKING JOKE! I could not pick two worse people to put together on a sports page, in the history of sports pages! I can’t think of anyone I dislike more than Les…Oh wait! Roger Brown! The guy gives more opinions than any sports writer I have had a chance to read. His inside scoop is a day late and a dollar short. Then they stick him next to a guy who gets lambasted on his own TV show. Matter of fact, all my boys and me used to call the fat bastard live just to see his dumb ass face light up every time we pulled a joke on him. Hey Les, how come…you and Roger suck so bad? Oh…Roger, Pistons in 6 huh? You fucking idiot! :twisted:
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:47 pm

By the way Lebron was playing, and the numbers he had in Feb/March compared to his previous year's numbers, he was down considerably in most offensive categories, no? So, yes, I can see where Simmons (and others were coming from). And, I ain't necessarily agreeing with anyone here, just being devil's advocate as usual.

Wolfy....spot on. After Hal passed, the News Herald became worthless and I cancelled my Sunday sub within a month. That paper is garbage now.
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Unread postby Wolfy » Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:51 pm

I did the same, but some how some way got it back...matter of fact I am going to cancel tomorrow! Bring on the PD.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:15 pm

Um, the PD ain't much better. :idea:
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Unread postby HoodooMan » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:29 pm

Bill Simmons' only mistake was writing that Game 5 column the way he did. Outside of the Vince Carter caveat in the last paragraph, it didn't make a whole lot of sense. "LeLeap?" A changing of the guard in the Eastern Conference for the next decade? WTF?

One game--much less, the last 20ish minutes of one game--hardly dictates the hierarchy of the next generation of EC basketball. That's just plain silly, and Roger's portrayal on that point is accurate. And there's no such thing as "LeLeap." LBJ's problem has never been the absence of great performances. Had he ever played at that high of a level before? No. But who doubted that he could? Ab-so-lutely no one. Which is why all those people who followed Game 5 with, "that should shut up his critics" just don't freaking get it. Again, LBJ's problem has never been the absence of great performances; it's been the presence of half-assed substandard ones. And it's disengenuous of anyone to pretend that problem no longer exists because of one great performance, no matter how great.

MJ gets it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

The excerpt of MJ's quotes that were repeated over and over again the day after they were made--"What just transpired was something I felt was needed for the league, was needed for Cleveland, was needed for LeBron"--described as "praise" by Yahoo and then introduced as such by everyone who repeated it (the word praise only appears in the title & LBJ's response), was as far as I can tell a relatively empty statement. The NBA needs that from him, Cleveland needs that from him, and he needs it from himself.

Uh huh.

But here's the gem that no one seemed to think was worth repeating:

Jordan, who won six NBA championships during his 13 seasons with the Chicago Bulls, said the next challenge for James is to achieve consistency.

"Making 'The Leap' is where you do it every single night," Jordan said. "It's expected of you, and you do it. ... Not one game, not two games. It's consistent. Every defense comes in and they focus on you and you still impact the game. I think he's shown signs of that."


I don't know what he means by LBJ showing signs of that. Not after the Detroit series, in which we saw the full Bron Spectrum (how ever did NIKE come up with that multiple personalities campaign anyway, huh?).

But I think we all know what he means by LBJ needing to show some consistency. To put in that kind of effort--not necessarily that kind of performance--every night.

And if Game 5 actually marked Bron turning the corner (why not Game 3?), we won't know if for a long time. Not until we're a year or two down the line and one day stop and realize, "Damn, we haven't had one of those Don't Give A Fuck performances in a long time, have we? I'll be damned."
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Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:17 pm

Simmons's best asset has always been that he's never been afraid to express himself as a fan.

BUT, that's also his worst fault as well. What you're reading now are the writings of a Celtics fan who sees the future, and its another decade in the Eastern Conference's second divison. Bitter Boston Fan Face at losing the lottery and not having anyone to compare with Lebron, DWade, or Agent Zero. It's not a pretty sight...
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Unread postby pup » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:47 pm

I absolutely LOVE what Lebron has done in the playoffs, but going forward we can't have him coasting through half the season or taking games/plays off on a weekly basis. It didn't come back to bit them this year, but will in the future.


Disagree 10000000000000%. I hate LeBron coasting, but if coasting through the first 50 games of the regular season has him in position to lead this team to multiple titles, so be it. Shit, he can wait until game 51 to even dess next year if he brings a sausage this year.

Why will it bite them in the future? They just took the 2nd best team in their conference to the woodshed for 6 straight games. Who is going to challenge them in the next 3 years?
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Unread postby leadpipe » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:31 am

To what degree Simmons has ripped Lebron this year is debateable. The second portion of the gripe, the fact Roger Brown spouts off uninformed nonsense isn't. Everyone hates Skip Bayless because of his style of throwing darts at a board full of arguments which seem to fly in the face of public sentiment, but this is the same formula Brown uses. The only difference is Bayless has had a degree of success that Brown hasn't.

Simmons has his faults, (the incessant Boston references for example) but like his style or not, you can learn something by reading his columns. Brown's columns are nothing more than conjecture.
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Unread postby jb » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:11 am

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:Simmons's best asset has always been that he's never been afraid to express himself as a fan.

...


Rack it Madre.

Look, if you are a knowledgable fan, and you have strong takes, there is only one certainty about sports. They will make you look like a FOOL.

Simmons needs to grow the epidermal layer that comes with offering public takes. Ironic that a few people who do this are like Bill, and believe they are immune to criticism or get all hot and bothered when an difference of opinion comes their way.

Roger is a piece of work, but there are tims when becasue he is not afriad to take a stand he nails it. You can invoke the blind squirrell theory without much push back from me, but I have seen it happen. Ross Verba comes to mind.
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Unread postby ArtGold » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:02 pm

I think Simmons earlier comments about James were actually pretty accurate, and his defensive response to Brown is a little bit of spinning on Simmons part.

As I see it, James has loafed through much of the season, kicking it into gear the final weeks. Perhaps he was appropriately pacing himself, I just don't know.

The main criticism I have had of James, and why I have always compared him to Oscar Robertson, is that he plays a great team game but doesn't have that temper you need to get to the top. Magic, Bird, Jordan, Thomas and Duncan all have that temper, but I hadn't seen it from James.

Until now. Now I finally see that temper I have been hoping to find. If he keeps it, and really feels it, San Antonio could be in for a surprise.
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Unread postby hermanfontenot » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:09 pm

Simmons did more than say LeBron was coasting. He also implied that basketball was well down on LBJ's priority list, compared him to Eric Lindros, and opined that his lack of effort would continue into the 2nd half of the season; that it would, in Simmons's words, "be THE story of the next two months."

He was dead wrong. And now he wants to suck LBJ's dick? Negro please.

Fact is, the Sniper was right on the money in calling out Simmons, and typical of how he is, Simmons can't man up and admit he was wrong. Instead he resorts to petty salary smack. Weeeeeaaaaaak.

I have a lot of respect for TSG, because of his humor, his writing ability, and his unabashed homerism. I just wish he'd grow a set.
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