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Daniel Gibson's Potential

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Daniel Gibson's Potential

Unread postby Mcreek » Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:59 am

What type of player does Gibson become down the road?

Sam Cassel, BJ Armstrong, Billups or Arenas? A combo guard that will be a big scorer and who can get to the line. With Gibson-Pavlovich and Shannon Brown to compliment Lebron Our Window should be open for the next 5 years.

Thoughts?
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:04 am

It's hard to say. I think he can develop the point guard skill set. Will it be next season, or three seasons from now?

One thing is clear. The kid can shoot the orange. I remember the first time I saw Boobie shoot a jumper this year, it just looked silky smooth.

And he can also defend. And he's poised. The kid can play. Getting him in the 2nd was a coup d'etat.

Im also very high on Shannon Brown. The future of this team is Boobie, Shannon, Andy, and LeBron.

What a performance from Daniel last night ... simply amazing.
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Unread postby Guest » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:07 am

I'm getting tired of Andy's act to be honest and I think the refs are also.
Boobie is a stud.
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Unread postby dragonmeister » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:00 am

I'm getting tired of Andy's act to be honest


Me too!

:lol:
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Unread postby jb » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:12 am

FightDr wrote:I'm getting tired of Andy's act to be honest and I think the refs are also.
Boobie is a stud.


C;mon Doc.

He's just doing what Laimebeer and Rodman did so well for years.

He's an integral part of the effort.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:16 am

JB wrote:
FightDr wrote:I'm getting tired of Andy's act to be honest and I think the refs are also.
Boobie is a stud.


C;mon Doc.

He's just doing what Laimebeer and Rodman did so well for years.

He's an integral part of the effort.

I love Varejao. Most championship teams have one of him.

Getting a chance to rewatch the sequence of events that led to Sheed's meltdown and tossing, it was genius lead up by Andy ... slowly instigating him the 3-4 times down court beforehand.

Andys a great defender, great rebounder, and is a shot in the arm of adrenaline off the bench.

Hes not going anywhere, and is going to be a Cav for a very, very long time.
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Re: Daniel Gibson's Potential

Unread postby jb » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:29 am

Mcreek wrote:What type of player does Gibson become down the road?

Sam Cassel, BJ Armstrong, Billups or Arenas? A combo guard that will be a big scorer and who can get to the line. With Gibson-Pavlovich and Shannon Brown to compliment Lebron Our Window should be open for the next 5 years.

Thoughts?


A lesser Mark Price.

Yeah, it seems goofy at first blush and you'll scoff at me, but think about it seriously.

Boobie will never be big or physical. He's 10 pounds heavier and 2 inches taller than Price, but adjusted for weight in a decade and a half it is relative. He'll not be able to shoot over anyone, but he is shifty and athletic enough to create his own shot in some situations so long as he's not expected to overpower anyone. He' s not the truest of PG's in the sense he has scoring sensibilities, but he shows signs of being able to run an O much more effectively than say, Hughes. BTW - If I see another lob pass from Hughes Imina need a new TV set.

Where he reminds me of Mark is that he can flat out shoot like a muhfuka. Not as good as Mark, but Mark was our last legit All NBA 1st Teamer before Bron did it last year. Boobie did it at Texas, and he's comfortable doing it here. The NBA 3 Pt range increase doesn't seem to affect him at all.

The main dif is for some inexplicable reason he was just so-so from the line. I really see no reason why he can't imrpove upon this deficiency and I think he can also improve his FG % over Texas, esp if playing w/ Bron keeps giving him wide-assed open looks.

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Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:38 am

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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:41 am

I'm also a big fan of Varejao. Not many teams have guys who can bring so much energy off the bench. He still scares me a bit as a starter because his offense is not consistent, but neither is Gooden's. Even so, I like the depth that both of them bring at the PF position. I'd just like to grab someone in the offseason who can split time with Big Z at center and provide some offense off the bench there. That's why I'd like to bring back Mihm, who I think is a much improved player now on both sides of the court. The more rest Z gets in the regular season, the more energy he can give in the postseason. His rebounding last night was huge.

As for Gibson, I think he can and will be able to play PG. He's another young player to get excited about AND he wanted to come to Cleveland. I read a story the other day in the ABJ about he and his dad not working out for anyone else after he worked out for Cleveland, even if it meant dropping out of the first round. He knew he'd make his money later and that's why the Cavs gave him a two-year deal. It sends chills up my spine to know that a player like Gibson WANTED to play in C-Town. I'm also glad that the Arena & Boozer rule is in place now so the Cavs can match any offer after two years.

Like Swerb, I'm also high on Shannon Brown. He's fast, he can be another great defender. I'm not sure if he'll develop a three-point shot or not, though he did improve in that aspect during his last year at MSU. With some of Sasha's problems I think we may let him go via a sign-and-trade of some kind and use Brown in his stead.

Good news is that it's going to be a lot easier to get free agents to the Cavs now. We're over the hump and are very young. Players who want to win titles will be far more willing to come here. I'm praying we can convince Rashard Lewis to come here and find a deal with Seattle for him in a sign-and-trade.
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Unread postby jb » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:42 am

BJ Armstrong was a busta. A Poseur. A 1st round disappointment who was a marginal role player. He had 2 decent 14 PPG seasons in his career and then fizzzzzzzzle.

Pax was a one dimentional spot up shooter who slept for 82 and they woke him up for big series. He was the yin to Bill Cartwright's yang in this regard. In Bulls Dynasty V 2.0 , this role was played by Steve Kerr. They were great at that role, but nothing special.

Gibson is a true playa. This kid has big time potential to be an all star type hybrid PG who hits 18 a night and dishes.

Not aimed at you Herm, but enough with the forced MJ / Bron analogies already. We don't have to filter every single thing through that lens.

I think the Byron Scott / Magic analogy is more appropriate, but Gibson is smaller and has PG skills.

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Unread postby jb » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:49 am

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
Like Swerb, I'm also high on Shannon Brown. He's fast, he can be another great defender. I'm not sure if he'll develop a three-point shot or not, though he did improve in that aspect during his last year at MSU. With some of Sasha's problems I think we may let him go via a sign-and-trade of some kind and use Brown in his stead.



Mac - I see us as able to bring Brown along slowly as Hughes' understudy. He can improve slowly, get some minutes, and when it comes time to move Larry, he can be ready for that role.
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Unread postby Mcreek » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:54 am

The price comparison may not be much of a stretch except that Boobie is stronger and more athletic not to mention just a two year player in college. Seems to me Price was more of a scoer at Georgia Tech than a pure PPG. Oddly enough both were secondrounders. I kinda pidgeonholed Gibson at first with the BJ Armstrong comparison but his abilty to get to the foul line in this series dispells any perception that Boobie is just a one dimensional spot up shooter.

I really hate to give up on Sasha despite his propensty to make bone head plays at times like Drew Gooden. Pavlovich is just 24 yrs old and still has room for growth. He has mad major strides this year. Larry Hughes should be the odd man out of this group.
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Unread postby swerb » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:01 am

I think the Cavs wil seriously entertain trading Sasha this off-season due to Boobies emergence and the fact the org is high on Shannon. I also think it's the right thing to do.

Sasha has seen his trade value skyrocket as of late. And they have him cheap for one more season before they will be forced to back up the Brinks truck for him.

I just can't see the Cavs giving huge, huge deals to Andy and Sasha. And Andy's getting his this summer.
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Unread postby jb » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:06 am

Mcreek wrote:The price comparison may not be much of a stretch except that Boobie is stronger and more athletic not to mention just a two year player in college. Seems to me Price was more of a scoer at Georgia Tech than a pure PPG. Oddly enough both were secondrounders. I kinda pidgeonholed Gibson at first with the BJ Armstrong comparison but his abilty to get to the foul line in this series dispells any perception that Boobie is just a one dimensional spot up shooter.

I really hate to give up on Sasha despite his propensty to make bone head plays at times like Drew Gooden. Pavlovich is just 24 yrs old and still has room for growth. He has mad major strides this year. Larry Hughes should be the odd man out of this group.


MC, I agree, but Hughes' contract makes him untradeable. He's an albatross around our necks like Marshall & D Jones. Ferry's FA signings have been horrific. I think we are stuck waiting these bums out. Much like Shapiro, he lackled faith in the kids and core and frittered away $ on marginal players when trusting in the kids. Willie Tavarez, Ryan Church and Luke Scott = Jason Michaels, Delucci and Nixon.

Good thing Bron is Bron.
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Unread postby FUDU » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:14 am

Gibson reminds me a lot of Brandon and Parker.

Brandon was never a true PG, but there was a small time where he was arguably the most well rounded one. He could shoot pretty good and was athletic.

Parker can get into the lane at will, Boobie seems to have the knack as well. He just doesn't finish like a Parker...yet. He shoots from deep very well as we can see and has a confident mid range shot. His FT's are money, so the only thing he will need to really grow into is being a good distributor.

The fact that he is emerging as a threat to score and a guy the opponent cannot afford to leave alone roaming is HUGE right now, add the dimension of distribution and folks we have our legit 1 guard for a good while, long enough to make a continued run at a crown.

Anything that keeps Larry from being the decision maker on our sets is fine by me. Really disappointed to see Larry, a veteran, make so many bad decisions in distributing the ball. He was lucky not to have 4-5 passes picked off and go the other way for easy dunks the last two games.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:18 am

JB wrote:
MC, I agree, but Hughes' contract makes him untradeable. He's an albatross around our necks like Marshall & D Jones. Ferry's FA signings have been horrific. I think we are stuck waiting these bums out. Much like Shapiro, he lackled faith in the kids and core and frittered away $ on marginal players when trusting in the kids. Willie Tavarez, Ryan Church and Luke Scott = Jason Michaels, Delucci and Nixon.

Good thing Bron is Bron.


I disagree, I think Hughes is tradeable. Most know that his true skillsets haven't been on display in Cleveland. He's not a spot-up shooter and is far more skilled at driving the lane and creating opportunities for others. The best hope for dealing him is in a sign-and-trade deal for someone else.

As for Brown, I agree that he needs to be brought along slowly right now, but he's a reason why Sasha needs to go. I see Gibson and Hughes starting together in the backcourt next year if Hughes is still here. Pavlovic just crowds things up more. He can back up LeBron, but how much do you want to pay a guy who'll play five minutes a game?
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Unread postby FUDU » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:30 am

As for Brown, I agree that he needs to be brought along slowly right now, but he's a reason why Sasha needs to go. I see Gibson and Hughes starting together in the backcourt next year if Hughes is still here. Pavlovic just crowds things up more. He can back up LeBron, but how much do you want to pay a guy who'll play five minutes a game?


I disagree mac.

I feel Sasha is on the verge of becoming a very good player, a guy that can be problematic for a defense.

He is a good size, he has some quickness, he is fairly strong he can shoot and can handle the ball well enough. His D has improved and really the only thing with him that is a question mark on any given night is his confidence.

You can see when it is high he feels very strong about himself, evidenced by his physical reactions in this series to Wallace and Rip (in game 6). He doesn't feel the need to take any body's shit.

Lebron could really make something out of this kid IMO.

I would rather see him get major minutes then Larry. In the end I think there is plenty of room for Sasha, Larry, Boobie and Brown. Now if Brown emerges then maybe it gets crowed but then I think Larry is the one who would have to go.
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Unread postby Mcreek » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:38 am

Sasha's toughness is something we have lacked for years. He was really getting under Vince Carters skin. Pavlovich has played well whenever Lebron has sat out games. If we let Sasha go who plays the 3 spot when Lebron needs a blow, neither Shannon Brown or Hughes can play there.
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Unread postby StewieG » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:09 pm

The other day I wrote that this team is 3 pieces away.

1. A true PG
2. A true threat to score down low (Z and Gooden are shooters - they don't have great post moves)
3. A shooter with ice in his veins.

It's obvious now with the way Boobie has played in this series that he's the answer to #3. I'm not sold on him as a PG yet though. I'm sold on him as a player, I think he's a great shooter and is developing a slash ability as well. I'm just not sold yet on his PG skills. I think it's too easy to rattle him with traps and whatnot.

Having said that, if a trade is there for a point guard who can run a team, be it Larry, Sasha, or someone else who gets traded, I do that. I think that's the biggest piece this team needs to be a very strong team.

If a trade is there for someone like a Bibby, Kidd, or Andre Miller, you take it as long as it's not a completely retarded trade. If someone who is lesser known is there, like Jose Calderon or Speedy Claxton, and you think he's a good fit for the team, you make the trade.

Then you're one piece away from being truly dominant.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:50 pm

Stewie, I think your #2, the scorer down low, is why we need to find a way to get a first rounder this year. It's also why I was a huge advocate of drafting Paul Milsap last year, but I understand why we didn't.

My dream would be finding a way to get up high enough to land Al Horford, but I'm not sure that we can do it. Boston is probably in position but I don't think we have the tools unless they'd be interested in Varejao, Gooden, or someone else on our roster. I don't think they'd ask for Gibson due to their backlog of guard talent and I'd add Gibson to my untradeable list anyways.

I'd also be interested in another Brazilian, Tiago Splitter, who may be available late in the first.

Of course, there's always the possibility of moving LeBron to PF and using him more in the low post. If used correctly, he can make up for a PF who's more like a SF and likes mid-range Js.
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Unread postby hermanfontenot » Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:06 pm

JB wrote:BJ Armstrong was a busta. A Poseur. A 1st round disappointment who was a marginal role player. He had 2 decent 14 PPG seasons in his career and then fizzzzzzzzle.

Pax was a one dimentional spot up shooter who slept for 82 and they woke him up for big series. He was the yin to Bill Cartwright's yang in this regard. In Bulls Dynasty V 2.0 , this role was played by Steve Kerr. They were great at that role, but nothing special.

Gibson is a true playa. This kid has big time potential to be an all star type hybrid PG who hits 18 a night and dishes.

Not aimed at you Herm, but enough with the forced MJ / Bron analogies already. We don't have to filter every single thing through that lens.

I think the Byron Scott / Magic analogy is more appropriate, but Gibson is smaller and has PG skills.

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Ain't no thing JB, you're probably right. Really it isn't so much the MJ/Bron comparisons as me being in the "Daniel Gibson will be a nice off-the-bench scorer for us" mindset, even this late in the day. But he's shown so many new facets to his game in this series that I'm happily revising my expectations. He really hadn't shown the kind of ability to create havoc in the lane during the regular season like against Detroit. Now that it's clear he can make his own offense, the sky is the limit.

He still needs to distribute better and finish around the rim better. But he's a quick study. How about Chauncey Billups as a benchmark?
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Unread postby mswerb » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:01 pm

Andy blows, he will not get the flop calls in the finals. Every time he flops and no call is made, someone is wide open. This will not fly against the Spurs. While he does get a lot of loose balls, I don't care for his play.
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Unread postby pod2dawg » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:32 pm

StewieG wrote:The other day I wrote that this team is 3 pieces away.

1. A true PG
2. A true threat to score down low (Z and Gooden are shooters - they don't have great post moves)
3. A shooter with ice in his veins.

It's obvious now with the way Boobie has played in this series that he's the answer to #3. I'm not sold on him as a PG yet though. I'm sold on him as a player, I think he's a great shooter and is developing a slash ability as well. I'm just not sold yet on his PG skills. I think it's too easy to rattle him with traps and whatnot.

Having said that, if a trade is there for a point guard who can run a team, be it Larry, Sasha, or someone else who gets traded, I do that. I think that's the biggest piece this team needs to be a very strong team.

If a trade is there for someone like a Bibby, Kidd, or Andre Miller, you take it as long as it's not a completely retarded trade. If someone who is lesser known is there, like Jose Calderon or Speedy Claxton, and you think he's a good fit for the team, you make the trade.

Then you're one piece away from being truly dominant.



Stewie G, are you the little green man in my head?? You are right on ..yes,yes, yes, yes, and yes. I listened to the half time show last nite on TAM, Snyder was interviewing one of the main NBA writers who was trying to be complimentary of the Cavs:

1. Our crowd is every bit as raucous as Golden
State's & Utah's.
2. Cavs better win at home or forget it.
3. The Cavs have the least talented roster of
any team in the play-offs 1-12 ; however, we
get the most from what we have and play
tenacious team d-fense.
We need to follow Stewie's advice and OWN the East, & get some rings!

signed,

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Unread postby pod2dawg » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:42 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:

Of course, there's always the possibility of moving LeBron to PF and using him more in the low post. If used correctly, he can make up for a PF who's more like a SF and likes mid-range Js.


And a BIG HELL YEAH to you MacPhis.....copy that, past it, e-mail, AIM, mail it, staple it to Dan Ferry's door. Get the King some help and we become impossible to deal with.

signed,

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Re: Daniel Gibson's Potential

Unread postby SoulDawg74 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:30 am

Nasdag

Boobie will never be big or physical. He's 10 pounds heavier and 2 inches taller than Price, but adjusted for weight in a decade and a half it is relative. He'll not be able to shoot over anyone, but he is shifty and athletic enough to create his own shot in some situations so long as he's not expected to overpower anyone. He' s not the truest of PG's in the sense he has scoring sensibilities, but he shows signs of being able to run an O much more effectively than say, Hughes. BTW - If I see another lob pass from Hughes Imina need a new TV set.

Where he reminds me of Mark is that he can flat out shoot like a muhfuka. Not as good as Mark, but Mark was our last legit All NBA 1st Teamer before Bron did it last year. Boobie did it at Texas, and he's comfortable doing it here. The NBA 3 Pt range increase doesn't seem to affect him at all.

The main dif is for some inexplicable reason he was just so-so from the line. I really see no reason why he can't imrpove upon this deficiency and I think he can also improve his FG % over Texas, esp if playing w/ Bron keeps giving him wide-assed open looks.

SD:

dude you are witnessing a star in the making , never mind Bron pumping him up with pep talks about you and me babee got to make this happen .

Cat went out and hit 5 for 5 from the three stripe line in the biggest game of his life , right after he gutted the Ironheads with 21 points produced off shooting fouls and going to the line and sinking the rock .

He is silky smooth and mechanically the best shooter to ever suit up i a Cavs uniform this side of Mark Price.

You get a coach who emphasizes free throws instaed of that idiot Brown who lets em get off making one out of two without planting his foot up somebody's ass , and your talking a kid who may indeed approach those 90 % + shooting Marks from thre stripe that Price patented.

He's bigger strnger and faster than Price ever dreamed about being ,
and has the potential to do the things Chauncey Billups provided so long for the Ironheads in an overall game , which Price couldn't think of doing.

The media bias and idiot talking heads like Collin Cowherd have no appreciation there steal having Kobe Bryant Wet Dreams .


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