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Any interest in Kobe?

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Any interest in Kobe?

Unread postby jb » Wed May 30, 2007 1:58 pm

He says he wants out bad & told Steven A Smith he'll never play for LA again.

I'm thinking we can trade Ira, Wesley, and Snow for him. LOL.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Wed May 30, 2007 2:20 pm

I'm not really interested (bad fit here, IMO), but I am fascinated. I don't know enough players and salaries to be insightful, but I have a couple off-the-cuff impressions:

1) The Lakers won't trade Kobe. He can insist all he wants to, they don't have to, so they won't.

2) Can't see that many teams that COULD trade for Kobe. Chicago has been mentioned, but I don't see that actually being a good idea for them. What about New York? They certainly have the salaries. (I think L.A. would come out way behind in such a deal: New York stinks.) New Jersey? Portland? Dallas? I can't even think of a plausible deal.

3) Mike Wilbon was on Dan Patrick and said this basically means the Lakers have to bring in Jerry West. He also thinks Kobe stays. His reasoning is better than mine, go listen to it yerself.

4) There are entire teams I barely know. Name five players for any of these teams:

a) Orlando
b) Memphis
c) Minnesota
d) Seattle
e) Philadelphia
f) Houston
g) New Orleans Slash Oklahoma City
h) Atlanta
i) Milwaukee
j) Toronto
k) New York
l) Portland
m) Inbanana

There sure are a lot of teams in the NBA.
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Unread postby swerb » Wed May 30, 2007 2:20 pm

My guess?

He ends up in Chicago. For Deng, Gordon, and filler.
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Unread postby pup » Wed May 30, 2007 3:04 pm

Sasha, Hughes, Andy and Newble's expiring contract.

(handshake)

And yes, I am (smoking) something if I think that has a chance.
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Unread postby StewieG » Wed May 30, 2007 3:17 pm

Chicago can get it done if they're willing to trade Deng, Gordon, and a re-signed PJ Brown (to a 1-year, $10M contract), plus maybe a draft pick or two. The Lakers would take that deal, and they'd be stupid not to. But I don't see Chicago giving up that much for him. Maybe, but my guess is no.

The rest of the league, team-by-team, on whether I think they could get a deal done:

Atlanta - I don't think Kobe would waive his no-trade to go there.
Boston - Paul Pierce and Al Jefferson, plus a draft pick? LA probably does it, I don't think Boston does
Charlotte - No
Detroit - They have the pieces, but I don't think they'd try it
Indiana - No
Miami - Not unless they want to trade Wade, so no
Milwaukee - Redd + might get it done, but I don't see it happening
Jersey - No
New York - They certainly have the salaries, but since their players suck, no.
Orlando - They don't have what it takes, because they won't part with Howard
Philadelphia - They could trade what they got for AI...but wouldn't that pretty much put them right back where they were? Plus, I doubt Kobe wants to be in a rebuilding mode
Toronto - They might be able to get a deal done, but Kobe won't go north of the border
Washington - I don't think they have enough to get him, although there is a potential match here with players and draft picks, plus a winning team for Kobe to OK a trade to.

Dallas - Interesting. They could do it. It would probably take a re-signed Josh Howard, Devin Harris, and Diop, plus draft picks...which is a pretty steep price to pay, but with Jason Terry to run the point, Dirk Nowitzki and Kobe...that's still a really strong team. I can see a match here.
Denver - I don't think they want to, to be honest. I think they like AI and Melo, and there really isn't much else they have to give.
Houston - No. They don't have anything to offer beyond Yao and McGrady, and I don't think it makes sense to do a McGrady-Bryant swap
Clippers - Wouldn't that be ironic? I suppose it's possible, and a duo of Brand and Bryant would be formidable. Plus, the Sports Guy would kick his own ass all summer for not renewing those Clips season tickets.
Memphis - No
Minnesota - Hah, how about KG for KB? Interesting, but no.
New Orleans - No
Phoenix - They could potentially get it done. Marion and Barbosa, plus a couple draft picks for Kobe? Interesting. But would Kobe and Raja Bell kill each other?
Portland - No. But Randolph, Miles and the #1 pick is an interesting idea. But I don't think either team goes for that.
Sacromento - No
San Antonio - I don't think the Spurs would have any interest, to be honest.
Seattle - #2 pick, Rashard Lewis (re-signed), and filler? Ray Allen and Kobe together would be interesting, and sell tickets. But I don't think so.
Utah - Don't have what it takes, that they'd be willing to give up. So, no.

So that leaves us with...Cleveland. I think it's more likely than you think that Bryant could come here, and I'd certainly be interested. But in the end, there are a bunch of teams that could offer more than we could. However, if nobody else was biting, we could offer a package of Hughes, Varejao (re-signed), Gibson (whose trade value probably won't ever be higher), Newble (expiring contract), and maybe Shannon Brown or a draft pick for Bryant and either Kwame Brown (expiring deal) or Vlad Radmanovic.

That leaves us with:
Z/Pollard/Dwayne Jones
Gooden/Marshall/Radmanovic or Brown
LeBron/Sasha
Bryant/Sasha/Shannon Brown
Snow/Jones

Is that something you'd consider? I think it works under the cap, but I'm not sure.

It still leaves us without a PG, and it leaves us a bit thin on the front line. But LeBron and Kobe on the same team? Are you kidding?

Anyways, this is all idle banter, and I am 99.9% sure that if Kobe is traded, it won't be here. Just throwing some ideas out.

EDITED to add Radmanovic/Brown into the projected rotation because I'm an idiot and forgot 20 seconds after I dreamed up that scenario that I had included them in it.
Last edited by StewieG on Wed May 30, 2007 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby jb » Wed May 30, 2007 3:32 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:I'm not really interested (bad fit here, IMO), but I am fascinated. I don't know enough players and salaries to be insightful, but I have a couple off-the-cuff impressions:

1) The Lakers won't trade Kobe. He can insist all he wants to, they don't have to, so they won't.

2) Can't see that many teams that COULD trade for Kobe. Chicago has been mentioned, but I don't see that actually being a good idea for them. What about New York? They certainly have the salaries. (I think L.A. would come out way behind in such a deal: New York stinks.) New Jersey? Portland? Dallas? I can't even think of a plausible deal.

3) Mike Wilbon was on Dan Patrick and said this basically means the Lakers have to bring in Jerry West. He also thinks Kobe stays. His reasoning is better than mine, go listen to it yerself.

4) There are entire teams I barely know. Name five players for any of these teams:

a) Orlando
b) Memphis
c) Minnesota
d) Seattle
e) Philadelphia
f) Houston
g) New Orleans Slash Oklahoma City
h) Atlanta
i) Milwaukee
j) Toronto
k) New York
l) Portland
m) Inbanana

There sure are a lot of teams in the NBA.


Ram, I never knew you followed the NBA, too.
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Wed May 30, 2007 3:34 pm

StewieG wrote:Detroit - They have the pieces, but I don't think they'd try it


Unless they fall to the Cavs AND there's more to the rumors (referring to Windhorst's blog for today) about unrest within the Detroit clubhouse.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Wed May 30, 2007 3:43 pm

JB wrote:Ram, I never knew you followed the NBA, too.

Serves me right for calling someone "Tree."
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Unread postby StewieG » Wed May 30, 2007 3:48 pm

Hi Oktane wrote:
StewieG wrote:Detroit - They have the pieces, but I don't think they'd try it


Unless they fall to the Cavs AND there's more to the rumors (referring to Windhorst's blog for today) about unrest within the Detroit clubhouse.


I hadn't seen that before now. Interesting. And if true, it bodes well for us this year, because a team that isn't playing together is not quite as good as a team than is. That'll be something to watch the rest of the series.
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Unread postby Hi Oktane » Wed May 30, 2007 4:27 pm

StewieG wrote:
Hi Oktane wrote:
StewieG wrote:Detroit - They have the pieces, but I don't think they'd try it


Unless they fall to the Cavs AND there's more to the rumors (referring to Windhorst's blog for today) about unrest within the Detroit clubhouse.


I hadn't seen that before now. Interesting. And if true, it bodes well for us this year, because a team that isn't playing together is not quite as good as a team than is. That'll be something to watch the rest of the series.


Indeed.
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed May 30, 2007 4:27 pm

Well if we did get our hands on him it would give LeBron his Pippen.
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Unread postby StewieG » Wed May 30, 2007 4:32 pm

Actuallly I'd think it'd shake down more like Kobe getting his Pippen.

LeBron is closer to Pippen than Jordan, I think (closer to Magic than either of those two, but whatever). And Kobe is much closer to Jordan than Pippen.

IF we did get Kobe...it would be interesting to see who eventually became the leader of the team. LeBron, the incumbent? Or Kobe, the scorer and veteran?
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Unread postby FUDU » Wed May 30, 2007 4:34 pm

Actuallly I'd think it'd shake down more like Kobe getting his Pippen.


Nah, LeBron is the better player so Kobe would have to play the Pippen role.
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Unread postby jb » Wed May 30, 2007 4:46 pm

StewieG wrote:
Hi Oktane wrote:
StewieG wrote:Detroit - They have the pieces, but I don't think they'd try it


Unless they fall to the Cavs AND there's more to the rumors (referring to Windhorst's blog for today) about unrest within the Detroit clubhouse.


I hadn't seen that before now. Interesting. And if true, it bodes well for us this year, because a team that isn't playing together is not quite as good as a team than is. That'll be something to watch the rest of the series.


I get the feeling that Rip is not down with Sheed's T fit that was directed at him. His "we're used to it" crack is pretty telling.
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Unread postby StewieG » Wed May 30, 2007 4:50 pm

I sincerely hope they blow up from within. If that happens, management may decide that enough is enough, and start rebuilding. And if that happens, then Chicago and Washington are the only East teams we need to worry about for the next couple years. Detroit would be done, Miami is too old and Wade can't carry them by himself, and Orlando, Milwaukee and Toronto aren't ready yet. Jersey is about to rebuild, and the rest of the teams truly suck.
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Unread postby jb » Wed May 30, 2007 5:00 pm

StewieG wrote:I sincerely hope they blow up from within. If that happens, management may decide that enough is enough, and start rebuilding. And if that happens, then Chicago and Washington are the only East teams we need to worry about for the next couple years. Detroit would be done, Miami is too old and Wade can't carry them by himself, and Orlando, Milwaukee and Toronto aren't ready yet. Jersey is about to rebuild, and the rest of the teams truly suck.


Easier said than done, but I have alot of respect for Dunars. I'm not surethey'll be down for long if at all. The players may change, but Hoe may reload faster than we think.
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Unread postby StewieG » Wed May 30, 2007 5:12 pm

Possibly, but it's not easy to rebuild in the NBA quickly. At least, not without a lot of luck and some great drafts.

When teams blow up and then start anew with high draft picks and large free agent deals, it rarely pays off right away. Even with the Cavs getting the greatest NBA-ready player ever coming straight out of HS, it's taken us 3 years to get to the point where we actually have a decent shot. And I still think we're a player away.
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Unread postby Lebowski » Wed May 30, 2007 6:10 pm

LOL...he isn't going anywhere. They hire West and he stays.

btw, ESPN is really beating this dead horse in classic ESPN fashion.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed May 30, 2007 6:29 pm

StewieG wrote:Chicago can get it done if they're willing to trade Deng, Gordon, and a re-signed PJ Brown (to a 1-year, $10M contract), plus maybe a draft pick or two. The Lakers would take that deal, and they'd be stupid not to. But I don't see Chicago giving up that much for him. Maybe, but my guess is no.


Wouldn't work. Sign-and-trade deals have to be at least three years, although the first year is the only one that need be guaranteed. I'm not sure PJ Brown would go for it when he might get a multi-year MLE contract elsewhere that is fully guaranteed for three years.

It also wouldn't work because PJ Brown made $8M this year. $10M would be a 25% raise. Anything over 20% would make him BYC. It's not that big of a deal here, but his trade value would be only $8M for the Bulls but he'd be a full $10M hit for the Lakers. Not as big of a deal with the huge salaries, but he'd probably be signed for less.

I'd guess that Hinrich, Deng, and more would be the jumping off point.
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Unread postby sandlot33 » Wed May 30, 2007 7:02 pm

FUDU wrote:
Actuallly I'd think it'd shake down more like Kobe getting his Pippen.


Nah, LeBron is the better player so Kobe would have to play the Pippen role.


I love LeBron but Kobe is the best all around player in the league hands down
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Wed May 30, 2007 8:28 pm

sandlot33 wrote:
I love LeBron but Kobe is the best all around player in the league hands down


I'd disagree.

Kobe is the best scorer in the league. LeBron does stuff that Kobe can't do or doesn't want to do.

I think both LeBron and Wade are better overall players than Kobe, though Kobe is the best scorer in the league.
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Unread postby sandlot33 » Wed May 30, 2007 9:02 pm

Mr. MacPhisto wrote:
sandlot33 wrote:
I love LeBron but Kobe is the best all around player in the league hands down


I'd disagree.

Kobe is the best scorer in the league. LeBron does stuff that Kobe can't do or doesn't want to do.

I think both LeBron and Wade are better overall players than Kobe, though Kobe is the best scorer in the league.


what stuff would that be...last i checked kobe plays 150% every game on defense and offense, no matter who he plays.

there offenseive numbers are very similar, but what Kobe beats him at is his defense
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Unread postby mswerb » Wed May 30, 2007 9:22 pm

Kobe is a spoiled little bitch. It all started when he was drafted and refused to go to Charlotte. The latest I heard is that he has backed out of his demand to be traded. I personally do not see Jerry West (The Logo) returning. Any chance of the Lakers returning to who they once were is a long time away.
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Unread postby mattvan1 » Thu May 31, 2007 8:47 am

I can't remember where I heard this, but some taliking head made the point that LA fans need a star attraction - whether it's the Lakers, Dodgers, Kings or Rams/Raiders and regardless of record, Los Angelenos want to see Magic, or Fernando, or Gretzky, or Kobe. The only way LA makes a trade is for another star player/gate attraction - LeBron, D. Wade, etc.

Not saying he's right, but thought it was an interesting point.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Thu May 31, 2007 10:07 am

mattvan1 wrote:I can't remember where I heard this, but some taliking head made the point that LA fans need a star attraction ...

It was Wilbon on Dan Patrick (see above).
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Thu May 31, 2007 10:34 am

sandlot33 wrote:
what stuff would that be...last i checked kobe plays 150% every game on defense and offense, no matter who he plays.

there offenseive numbers are very similar, but what Kobe beats him at is his defense


Numbers may be similar, but Kobe is not anywhere near as good at lifting up teammates and getting others involved. He's done it before, but it's not his forte.

He also doesn't give 150% on defense every night. He's often very good, but he will back off on D, especially when he's having a huge points night.

I think it's difficult to call Kobe the best overall player right now. There are a handful of players that deserve the title more than he does. Duncan comes to mind. Wade comes to mind. LeBron comes to mind.

It's not all about the numbers you post, it's also about the impact you have on those around you. Kobe has never been a guy who could take his team on his back and lift them up. I'd go so far as to say he's not a leader at all and is best suited to a #2 role in an offense.
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Unread postby mswerb » Thu May 31, 2007 4:04 pm

Latest is that the Lakers are looking to score Jermaine O'neal.
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Unread postby FUDU » Thu May 31, 2007 4:29 pm

It's not all about the numbers you post, it's also about the impact you have on those around you.


Mac, very good takes on this topic, I agree with most of what you have said.

Just to add, even when looking at the numbers, the only number that really stands out in Kobe's favor is his FT%.

Just sayin, not looking to turn this into a big LBJ v Kobe thing.
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Unread postby He Gone » Thu May 31, 2007 6:34 pm

I wouldnt want Kobe on the Cavs.

I enjoy watching the two of them go at it too much.

I really think that for the next few years, Kobe will be Lebrons major rival. Think about it, they are exact OPPOSITES. Kobe is the shoot first, im going to take over the entire game and make you beat me. Lebron is the pass first, shoot second, I want to get my teammates involved and make it a team effort.

But when it comes down to it, they are the same, as all great players are, they just want to WIN.

I think the Lakers Cavs matchups are some of the most enticing games of our reg season, I look forward to them a ton.
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