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Hughes out for Game 4

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Hughes out for Game 4

Unread postby Kuiper » Mon May 28, 2007 5:20 pm

Hughes has a torn planter fascia and is out for at least Game 4 (and possibly the rest of the playoffs). Guess it was too much to expect him to last throughout the season AND the playoffs this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2 ... id=2884926

Question is who starts in his place. Normally, it would be Snow, but the fact that he hasn't played in two games and he didn't come in when Hughes was injured yesterday suggests otherwise. Gibson is the obvious choice, but Brown may want to bring him off the bench because of the rookie factor. That suggests Damon Jones, although he lacks the defense that Brown likes.
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Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon May 28, 2007 6:22 pm

Boobie. He got the majority of Hughes's minutes last night, and he hung some stellar D on Hamilton and Billups. I don't know if he'll start, but I imagine he'll be on the floor the most.
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Unread postby swerb » Mon May 28, 2007 6:50 pm

I'd start Snow. You're going to need him now. Go back to him in the starting lineup, build hid confidence back up after sitting him for the 1st two games in his career essentially. The rest of the starters are comfortable playing with him, as he started for a long period of time.

Put Snow on Chauncey, who rarely challenges early in games. He paces himself to be a threat late.

And I'd be ready to go to Boobie early, 5-6 min into each half.

Who this puts the onus on is Sasha. Hes gotta be able to hang with Rip now. We saw bad Sasha in game one, good Sasha last night. We need good Sasha now, as we won't have Larry to move over to check Rip.
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Unread postby Kuiper » Mon May 28, 2007 8:46 pm

Another interesting issue is who is activated if Hughes is made inactive for Game 4. My guess is Wesley because he can play PG and because Brown has shown no confidence in Shannon Brown.
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Unread postby FUDU » Mon May 28, 2007 8:50 pm

I agree with Swerb. Go with Eric to start but be willing to discount loyalty right away if need be and bring in Gibson sooner than later.

LeBron has to try to get somebody else some shots early to get their confidence up. Just seems to me our role players live and die with self confidence issues way more than other teams role players.

Even without Larry Hughes I like our chances in game 4. It isn't like Larry was providing that much in this series so far, even his defense has been hit or miss.
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Unread postby Prosecutor » Mon May 28, 2007 9:14 pm

Tough break for Larry, but a great opportunity for Boobie. He's playing with a lot of poise and doesn't look like a rookie out there. The Pistons will try to back him down in the post, so he'll need some help. But if he gets hot from the 3-point line it adds a huge dimension to the offense.
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Unread postby Guest » Mon May 28, 2007 9:43 pm

We're going to find out how much Larry's defense helps.
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Unread postby leadpipe » Mon May 28, 2007 10:59 pm

As much as Hughes is a cipher on offense, this is a problem. I thought the Cavs really turned the corner defensively when they started playing Hughes and Pavlovic together. That made them very long up front and really disturbed passing lanes. The danger with playing Gibson is you risk the chance that a guy like Billups might get on track. The danger with playing Snow is, well, he stinks. That and the fact the lane will have all Piston personel, including cheerleaders in it. As good a defender as Snow is, the Cavs best defensive team is with Hughes, Pavlovic and Lebron.

If it were me, I'd roll the dice and play Gibson. The reason being, in my opinion, they only win this series should Lebron have monster games like the last one. If Snow is playing 30 minutes, that is going to be awfully tough. The Pistons don't respect him for a second on O. 4 on 5. I think Gibson is at least a threat from the perimeter.
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Unread postby Mr. MacPhisto » Tue May 29, 2007 7:16 am

I'd play Gibson. He brings energy out on the floor with him and is very active on defense. My concern is that Snow slows things down too much, though that's not as big an issue against Detroit. They're not exactly superfast at any position.

I'd be more inclined to activate Shannon Brown due to his athleticism, but he's gotten so little time this season that I'm not sure how good of an idea that'd be, but Wesley hasn't exactly been stellar this year either. I think Brown can bring stronger defense off the bench and can drive if givn the chance, but Coach Brown has been reluctant to give him any time this year, a fact that pisses me off.
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Unread postby swerb » Tue May 29, 2007 8:25 am

Mike Snyder reports on WTAM this morning ...

Boobie to start. And "play extensive minutes".

Setting up a pretty great story line. Gibson, matched up against his childhood hero Chauncey who he openly idolizes and fawns over.
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Unread postby steviedifranco » Tue May 29, 2007 12:38 pm

Eric Snow = Larry Hughes minus offense

Larry Hughes has done nothing on offense this series anyway. If anything, he's shooting too much...and we all know that Eric Snow does not do that. I say you go with Snow. Reason why we've been owning Detroit is because of the defense we've been playing on Billups. We've shut down their most important player. You let him back in it, and who knows where these games go.

I'm not knocking Boobie, because he played great. And he definitely needs to be out there playing big minutes. But I think you need to get on Billups early, then let Boobie come in and play him when he's out of rhythm. (Although the dude made 2 huge shots on Sunday after going 1 for 10, so who knows if that will really happen)

I was personally very confident about this game until I heard Larry was down. He was our starting PG for 3 months. Thats not easy to recover from.
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 29, 2007 12:58 pm

Ya know, I get on Hughes a lot....but I think this injury hurts the Cavs more than people are willing to admit. Mostly defensively, as Hughes has been one of the big reasons Rip and Chauncey have had so much trouble scoring these first three games, and the TOs by Chauncy as well.

Offensively, I don't think we will miss much from Hughes, 'cept for his ability (when he tries) to dribble penetrate and create. Now we are left with really Lebron doing all the creating and four statues on the floor spotting up for shots.

Going to be interesting to see how Rip/Chauncey perform tonight with no Hughes in there.....and also how effective Boobie is playing extended minutes. Sometimes it can work against you playing more time, as warts can be exposed. Also, we lose some firepower off the bench.

Tonight is a huge game. I expected to win Game 3.....but tonight is the one that makes this a series again or we get the golf clubs shined up and ready for a lot of use this offseason.
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Unread postby jb » Tue May 29, 2007 2:47 pm

Consigliere wrote:Ya know, I get on Hughes a lot....but I think this injury hurts the Cavs more than people are willing to admit. Mostly defensively, as Hughes has been one of the big reasons Rip and Chauncey have had so much trouble scoring these first three games, and the TOs by Chauncy as well.

Offensively, I don't think we will miss much from Hughes, 'cept for his ability (when he tries) to dribble penetrate and create. Now we are left with really Lebron doing all the creating and four statues on the floor spotting up for shots.

Going to be interesting to see how Rip/Chauncey perform tonight with no Hughes in there.....and also how effective Boobie is playing extended minutes. Sometimes it can work against you playing more time, as warts can be exposed. Also, we lose some firepower off the bench.

Tonight is a huge game. I expected to win Game 3.....but tonight is the one that makes this a series again or we get the golf clubs shined up and ready for a lot of use this offseason.


Feh...

Gibson has talent. he's no longer a rookie by this time in the season. They do need a quick trigger to Snow if he gets baked early, but I like the move. Will Tra be active? Or Shannon?

The Cavs rise or fall on whether we see game 3 Bron or games 1 & 2 Bron. He has to wake the hell up in quarter 3.

These Pistons are so beatable it hurts.

Let me add that this is a complicated injury, isn't it? Can we get Doc Stank in here? This may linger far longer than just this playoffs for Laura.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Tue May 29, 2007 3:59 pm

Who on earth voted for 'amon 'ones on the front page poll?!?!
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Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 29, 2007 4:02 pm

JB wrote:These Pistons are so beatable it hurts.


Spot on, mate.

That's the mantra for the entire playoffs really. The teams are watered down right now in the East, and I think when the dust settles that the ONE team we matchup well with in the West could be the team we play in the Finals.

Our chance is this year. I don't want to hear any crap that if we lose a message has been sent that the Pistons time might be about over. This is the Cavs time to go get it, because going into next year and beyond there is absolutely no guarantees with the Cavs. I'm sure after the Cavs lost to the Bulls in the 92 EC Finals we all though they would make several more runs and that the Bulls were getting old.....next thing you know Nance and Daugherty can't stay healthy and retire prematurely. And, Chicago is young and hungry....and Miami could be back with a fully healthy Wade....and who knows if any other teams in the East improve.

Our time is now. This may be our best chance.
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Unread postby jfiling » Tue May 29, 2007 4:38 pm

http://www.82games.com/0607/0607CLE2.HTM

In the regular season, the most productive non-Hughes lineup was:

Snow-Pavlovic-James-Marshall-Varejao

Next best was:

Jones-Pavlovic-James-Marshall-Varejao

The most productive with Hughes (and overall) was:

Hughes-Pavlovic-James-Marshall-Varejao

I see a trend there, but its not the one I was looking for.
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Unread postby FUDU » Tue May 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Tonight will ultimately tell us if Larry will be on the opening day roster next season.
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Unread postby Steve Buffum » Tue May 29, 2007 5:05 pm

FUDU wrote:Tonight will ultimately tell us if Larry will be on the opening day roster next season.

Well, Tree, how are you going to get him off the roster?

(Okay, calling you "Tree" is a low blow, but great horny toads, who is going to trade for Larry F&#^ing Hughes?)
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue May 29, 2007 5:09 pm

Tony wrote:I think when the dust settles that the ONE team we matchup well with in the West could be the team we play in the Finals.


...? San Antonio has had the series out West under control since before it began. I'm not sure if you are inferring we match up well with them, or the “down 3 games to 1” Utah Jazz, but it doesn't matter. San Antonio would/will dispatch of this Cavs team in five games if we get there.

You keep talking about how this is our chance, etc, etc. Well yeah, it is our chance to beat the Pistons, but it sure as hell is not our chance at an NBA title.
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Unread postby FUDU » Tue May 29, 2007 5:16 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:
FUDU wrote:Tonight will ultimately tell us if Larry will be on the opening day roster next season.

Well, Tree, how are you going to get him off the roster?

(Okay, calling you "Tree" is a low blow, but great horny toads, who is going to trade for Larry F&#^ing Hughes?)


I was planning on kidnapping him, duh.

Well yeah, it is our chance to beat the Pistons, but it sure as hell is not our chance at an NBA title.


No reason we can't take the Spurs.

Yeah they are a different team than the one we beat in the regular season but so are we.


One problem with the Spurs is they allow the go to guy on the other team to get off way too much, enter LeBron.

Chance of LeBron dominating the Spurs are much better than him dominating the Pistons.
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Tue May 29, 2007 5:22 pm

jfiling wrote:http://www.82games.com/0607/0607CLE2.HTM

In the regular season, the most productive non-Hughes lineup was:

Snow-Pavlovic-James-Marshall-Varejao

Next best was:

Jones-Pavlovic-James-Marshall-Varejao

The most productive with Hughes (and overall) was:

Hughes-Pavlovic-James-Marshall-Varejao

I see a trend there, but its not the one I was looking for.


Using this data in the way you are is very difficult to say the least. Sample size can and does really skew 5 man stats, especially when you use win % as your measure of success (as you are). If you really want to compare the various lineups I am a fan of presenting the entire picture and I value +/- rankings above win % rankings.

It’s hard if not impossible to call a 5 man unit the team’s best because they managed a 94% win share in 56 minutes.
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Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Tue May 29, 2007 6:44 pm

Steve Buffum wrote:Well, Tree, how are you going to get him off the roster?


"Hey, Isaiah, have I got a deal for you..."

(Failing that, there's always Danny Ainge or Billy King.)
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Unread postby Kuiper » Tue May 29, 2007 8:21 pm

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Unread postby consigliere » Tue May 29, 2007 11:29 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
Tony wrote:I think when the dust settles that the ONE team we matchup well with in the West could be the team we play in the Finals.


...? San Antonio has had the series out West under control since before it began. I'm not sure if you are inferring we match up well with them, or the “down 3 games to 1” Utah Jazz, but it doesn't matter. San Antonio would/will dispatch of this Cavs team in five games if we get there.

You keep talking about how this is our chance, etc, etc. Well yeah, it is our chance to beat the Pistons, but it sure as hell is not our chance at an NBA title.


I was implying that the one team we matchup really well with in the West is San Antonio. I like our chances a ton more against them than if Phoenix or Dallas made it to the Finals.

THis may not be our only chance, but it may be our best (easiest) shot at the Finals and a championship.
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Unread postby jb » Wed May 30, 2007 6:15 am

In no scenario did I see Larry Hughes as capable of taking The Needle for the team.

I don't care what else he does or how bad his contract is. I'm off his shit because he showed me heart.
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed May 30, 2007 12:18 pm

JB wrote:In no scenario did I see Larry Hughes as capable of taking The Needle for the team.

I don't care what else he does or how bad his contract is. I'm off his shit because he showed me heart.


Next you're going to tell me your going golfing with BE.
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Unread postby jb » Wed May 30, 2007 1:57 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
JB wrote:In no scenario did I see Larry Hughes as capable of taking The Needle for the team.

I don't care what else he does or how bad his contract is. I'm off his shit because he showed me heart.


Next you're going to tell me your going golfing with BE.


I'm serious. I love the heart that showed. Hughes' game has some flaws, and he'll never be that Pippin guy (might Gibson?) , but if he keeps playing while the shot works like a mini-Willis Reed, how can you not respect that?
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Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed May 30, 2007 2:42 pm

JB wrote:might Gibson?


If he grows 2 inches. For as solid a game as Gibson had last night once Detroit decided to go to Hamilton in the post he was giving up points at a rate greater than he was scoring them.
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Unread postby consigliere » Wed May 30, 2007 10:56 pm

Ya know, I liken Gibson more to Lebron's "BJ Armstrong" more than a potential Pippen. And, that is actually a compliment. Gibson is a bigger player, but he reminds me a lot of Armstrong.
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