Cavs/Pistons Game 2

[jfiling]

It was a foul (or two), but Swerb is totally right: the refs just are going to "let them play" in the final few seconds unless blood is spilled.

I'm surprised nobody is more pissed at Rasheed Wallace clearing out Andy with a blatant foul and the terrible no-call the refs pulled on that.

[pup]

OK. I am now over that game.

All the Pistons have done is hold serve. They were supposed to win those games. Now we have to do the same at home and even the series at 2. If anything, we know we can play with these guys. Now we have to figure out how to finish a game.

Sunday night baby! Pistons/Cavs on TNT, Tribe/Tigers on ESPN. No work on Monday. Sweeeet.

[FUDU]

True. But do you think LeBron would have hit any of those FT's?

Top be honest with you I could live with us losing if he missed one or both, but at least he would have had the chance b/c the play was officiated correctly at that point if a foul had been called.

[hermanfontenot]

I know we never really had a shot, but could you imagine this team with Deron Williams running the point?

Yes.

One constant of the Cavs' dark period of the late '90s and early '00s was top-notch PG play. Now that we actually need a good point guard... we don't have one. T. C. E.

[Get_Wedge_Out_NOW!]

the pistons are a team you hate


but they are good and you know it
when i say "you" i mean every non fan in general

[StewieG]

Fair enough. But at the end of the day it comes down to laura not hitting that wide open shot. He makes that, I can live with whatever results, even if they hit a shot at the end. But leaving points on the board like that on a wide open gimme shot absolutely infuriates me.

[consigliere]

THat was absolutely not a foul on Lebron there at the end. If anyone believes it was, then there is a foul on every play.

Bottom line, the Pistons played great D on Lebron late in the game.....and bottom line, HUGHES HAS TO MAKE THAT FUCKING SHOT! For the love of all that is Holy, a 6 foot jumper with no one near you or in your face. Unreal. Pathetic. I fucking HATE Laura Hughes. Hate him.

This team needs a legit PG in the worst way....

Going to be touch as hell to win this series, as there is absolutely no margin for error now the next two games. They are both must win home games.

[Dozen]

THat was absolutely not a foul on Lebron there at the end. If anyone believes it was, then there is a foul on every play.

Bottom line, the Pistons played great D on Lebron late in the game.....and bottom line, HUGHES HAS TO MAKE THAT FUCKING SHOT! For the love of all that is Holy, a 6 foot jumper with no one near you or in your face. Unreal. Pathetic. I fucking HATE Laura Hughes. Hate him.

This team needs a legit PG in the worst way....

Going to be touch as hell to win this series, as there is absolutely no margin for error now the next two games. They are both must win home games.

Rack It!!!!!!!!!!

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

If we can run this to seven games, Pup, and maybe - maaaaaaaaaaybe - make it to the Finals, I'll be a happy Superstar.

After tonight, though, I seriously think we're just not there yet. We need another shooter - or for Pavs and Boobie to step their game up - and we need someone who can run the floor alongside Lebron.

[swerb]

Im sorry guys, I just disagree.

Anyone who wanted a foul called there hasn't been watching NBA playoff basketball for the last 25 years.

Blame Roker for another third quarter no show. Blame LeBron for going 3-11 from the field with 5 turnovers over the final two thirds of the game. Blame LeBron for not being able to seal the deal for about the 15th straight time hes been given the opportunity. Blame Larry for missing that bunny.

But blaming the refs for this loss?

Come on ...

[hermanfontenot]

THat was absolutely not a foul on Lebron there at the end. If anyone believes it was, then there is a foul on every play.

Bottom line, the Pistons played great D on Lebron late in the game.....and bottom line, HUGHES HAS TO MAKE THAT FUCKING SHOT! For the love of all that is Holy, a 6 foot jumper with no one near you or in your face. Unreal. Pathetic. I fucking HATE Laura Hughes. Hate him.

This team needs a legit PG in the worst way....

Going to be touch as hell to win this series, as there is absolutely no margin for error now the next two games. They are both must win home games.

Our best- our only- chance to win this series was to take it in six. Now there is almost no way we can avoid a game 7 back at the Palace, at best. No way we win a Game 7 on the road.

We're good enough to beat Detroit. I for one am mortally sure of it. But it isn't going to happen, at least not this year. To use the Jordan analogy, it's 1990 for us.

[mswerb]

if the cavs were up 30 at the half, id bet my house they woudl tank it in the third and lose the game

Can you quit crying please? At least on here. Start your own blog and cry on there. Its getting tiring.

Talking about the game is one thing. Saying the same tired one line whiny statements over and over just annoys everyone else.

Swerb, he is nothing but comic relief now...liken him to the Bostonian

im not as funny as larry hughes though

can i change my name to get wedge and brown out now? lol

you should change your name to

Get_myself_out_now

lol good one...........trash talk me from behind the keyboard (thumbs up)

Please stop typing and turn your computer off now.

[mswerb]

The boys are in a DEEP hole now, should be interesting to see if desperation sets in at The Q.

[StewieG]

I trade anyone on this team not named LeBron to get a PG. That includes Sasha. That includes Andy. That includes Z. This team will be so good with a real PG.

[leadpipe]

A few thoughts

1. If the story of this game centers around Lebron my head is going to explode. He had zero help today. None.

2. Andy didn't get the push-off call at the end of the game because his flopping is becoming ridiculous, and the whole NBA is now in on the joke, including the refs.

3. Never in my life have I seen worse point guard play from an NBA playoff team. When Detroit turned up the on the ball defense to start the third, watching Gibson, jones and Hughes try to get the Cavs into their "pseudo" offense it was almost comical. It would have been legitimitely funny if I wasn't a Cav fan. Lebron is having to scratch, bite and claw for EVERYTHING. There is a reason you haven't seen the guy take a 15 footer yet this series.

4. Drew Gooden blows. We are now on the second consecutive year of him not even being there when the season matters the most. If I hear someone using the rationale that his "near double-double" regular season average makes him a good player, again, my head will explode. There is a reson Channin Frye was the Cavs best offer for this hump.

5. To my point in my pre-game rant. The Cavs are a very easy team to defend.

6. They will not beat Detroit 4 out of 5 playing like this. I hate to be "glass half empty" but they just are not.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

I trade anyone on this team not named LeBron to get a PG. That includes Sasha. That includes Andy. That includes Z. This team will be so good with a real PG.

Sasha? Andy? Z!? Whoa, there. Yeah, the team needs a 40-minute PG like right now, but let's not rob Peter to pay Paul here.

[hermanfontenot]

I trade anyone on this team not named LeBron to get a PG. That includes Sasha. That includes Andy. That includes Z. This team will be so good with a real PG.

If nothing else works, let's get into the lab and create a real point guard.

[Dozen]

if the cavs were up 30 at the half, id bet my house they woudl tank it in the third and lose the game

Can you quit crying please? At least on here. Start your own blog and cry on there. Its getting tiring.

Talking about the game is one thing. Saying the same tired one line whiny statements over and over just annoys everyone else.

Swerb, he is nothing but comic relief now...liken him to the Bostonian

im not as funny as larry hughes though

can i change my name to get wedge and brown out now? lol

you should change your name to

Get_myself_out_now

lol good one...........trash talk me from behind the keyboard (thumbs up)

LOL! Pot ...........kettle.......................... this guy kills me

[leadpipe]

You couldn't trade Z for a legit point guard anyway. Nobody is taking that ridiculous contract.

[FUDU]

But blaming the refs for this loss?

Come on ...

I agree with all the other stuff, out coached, bad shotting etc.

However the refs totally failed to do their job on the last play.

It was without question a foul and their job is to blow the whistle when the kind of contact Hamilton made occurs.

Hamilton's arm to the back of LeBron's neck was the only contact that needed viewing to constitute a whistle. It doesn't matter if Rip was leaning or not, you simply cannot place your arm on a driving offensive players neck or head like that, regardless of back to the basket for either player.

Situation has nothing to do with a foul of that much contact.

Sorry but using the "can't blame the refs for a loss" line is just PC and trendy.

[comish]

When even Rasheed says it was a "home call" you know how bad it was. Sorry, Swerb, I usually agree with what you say, but not THIS TIME, FU***** terrible no call. They had like 4 chances to blow the whistle and didn't. The NATIONAL media on ESPN radio thinks so too.

Still, no excuse for that joke of a 2nd fiddle Hughes to miss a wide open look from 6 feet.

The silver lining? The Pistons are LUCKY AS HELL to be up 2-0 right now. It would not surprise me to see the Cavs deck them the next two games

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

A few thoughts

Rack it. I think the Cavs have enough of an advantage at the Q that it'll go longer than five, but your optimism may vary.

[consigliere]

Just to show how much of a hole we are in......in the history of the NBA Semi Finals, when the home team has gone up 2-0, they are 44-2 in the series (.952). Of note, though, in Game 3 the team down 0-2 is 27-19 in that game.

In ALL Semis, the team up 2-0 is 55-2 all-time.

In the history of the NBA playoffs, teams up 2-0 are 182-11 (.943).

IOW, the Cavaliers are an extreme longshot right now. They could do it....but it is a tough road to hoe that's for sure.

[StewieG]

Sasha? Andy? Z!? Whoa, there. Yeah, the team needs a 40-minute PG like right now, but let's not rob Peter to pay Paul here.

Yep. A strong point guard will have a MUCH bigger impact in every game than any of those players. Z would be the toughest to replace, but we have the depth to do it. I'm not advocating trading all 3, but one of those guys, plus filler? Hell yes I do that.

You forget, we are getting ZERO production from the PG position. That's the most important position on the floor. More important than the off-guard. More important than center (second most important position).

I want, in this order:

A real PG
A reliable low-post scorer (Z gets the majority of his points on jumpers and free throws, and Drew...well, he just isn't reliable)
A deadly shooter.

I list shooters 3rd, only because we have a bunch of guys who are capable of hitting the 3. Marshall, Jones, Gibson...those guys can all hit it. We need the other two more.

I say a reliable low-post scorer because it's painfully obvious coming out of halftime that when we need points in the paint, we just can't get them. Maybe moving LeBron to the 4 would help with that, I don't know.

But I'll say it again. This team needs a PG more than anything else. A real PG can lead the fast break (which this team sometimes struggles with), get a team into the offense (which this team always struggles with), hit an open shot (which this team usually struggles with), and give everyone else easy opportunities (which this team struggles with outside of LeBron). Plus, hopefully we won't have to watch players like Tyronne Lue light us up for 25.

When Jeff McInnis first came to this team, in LeBron's rookie year, the difference in play was night and day. When he went down, the struggles of the offense were unbelievable. And Jeff McInnis was an average PG at best. But look at the difference an average PG makes versus, say, Kevin Ollie. Now add a good PG on this team...I guarantee you, with or without Andy, Z, or Sasha, this team wins 60+ games and makes the NBA finals. And we give any team other than Phoenix (who we still wouldn't match up well with) a fight.

[consigliere]

BTW, anyone see Ferry go apeshit in the stands when Mike Brown walked by him? Brown was walking back to the locker room, caught a glimpse of Ferry, turned to him and Ferry looked at him and went absolutely apeshit for like 2 seconds. If anyone Tivoed it, check it out. hilarious. He wasn't going off on Brown, but on the refs.

[sandlot33]

how good do you think this team would look if we had f'in boozer instead of gooden

[leadpipe]

The problem with this trade talk like we had before the trade deadline is.....the Cavs are locked into contracts so ridiculous nothing is going to change. All wasted breath. Paxson has screwed this team for three more years. There is a reason nothing happened this year. There is a reason that Ferry could only pick up humps like David Wesley and Scott Pollard last year. There is also a reason that the Cavs don't have a draft pick. That reason, curiously enough is no longer in the league.

The Cavs need to win the title THIS YEAR. Other eastern conference teams have the ability to get better thru development, free agency and the draft. The Cavs are handicapped in those areas.

[StewieG]

Hell, Tyronne Lue would make this team better.

I wouldn't give up much to get him (maybe Newble's expiring contract and Dwayne Jones, or something like that), but he would immediately become the best PG on this team. I'm not kidding, and that's really sad.

[sandlot33]

I think Speedy Claxton would look good on this team, and I think we could get him from ATL

[FUDU]

OMFG these guys on NBA fast break are idiots.

Greg Anthony was just asked if there was enough contact to justify a call on the last play and his answer was and I quote, "No I don't think so b/c the CONTACT was below the waste".

WTF play was this moron watching.

Unfreakin real.

[hermanfontenot]

Well, when you don't have "a" point guard, period, any point guard is better than what you've got.

[StewieG]

PG's that would make this team noticeably better:

And yes, I realize most of them won't be available and/or we don't have what it would take to get them...

Gilbert Arenas
Carlos Arroyo
Chucky Atkins
Leandro Barbosa
Mike Bibby
Chauncey Billups
Steve Blake
Earl Boykins
Jose Calderon
Sam Cassell
Speedy Claxton
Antonio Daniels
Baron Davis
Juan Dixon
Keyon Dooling
Chris Duhon
Monta Ellis
Jordan Farmar
Ray Felton
Derek Fisher
TJ Ford
Randy Foye (Is he a PG? ESPN has him listed as one, but I thought he was a SG)
Steve Francis
Devin Harris
Kirk Hinrich
Troy Hudson
Allen Iverson
Bobby Jackson
Mike James
Jason Kidd
Brevin Knight
Shaun Livingston (If he can return)
Tyronn Lue
Stephon Marbury (and I HATE Stephon Marbury)
Jeff McInnis (Just seeing if you were paying attention)
Andre Miller
Steve Nash
Jameer Nelson
Janerro Pargo (maybe)
Tony Parker
Chris Paul
Gary Payton
Luke Ridnour
Nate Robertson
Damon Stoudamire
Bob Sura
Jason Terry
Beno Udrih
Dwayne Wade
Earl Watson
Delonte West
Deron Williams
Jason Williams
Marcus Williams
Mo Williams

Wow. That's quite a list. And there are some dreadfully average names on there. Yet just about every one of those guys would be, worst case scenario, no worse than what we have now.

[leadpipe]

They owe Newble for 3.5 million NEXT season. Couldn't give him away.

Let's look at some other gems. How bout a 6 foot ten jump shooter, and this is a COMPLETE description of his game. Who incidentally missed the biggest open shot of the year. 07-08 5.5 mil and 08-09 5.9 million. The guy already moves around like he's 60 and they owe him 6 million in 09. Wonderful.

Damon Jones 4 million next season and 4.3 in 08-09. Not bad for "the greatest shooter in the world" It's a wonder nobody is touching that contract either. We are now up to three players you couldn't GIVE AWAY at those numbers. But that's not all.

Larry Hughes. 12 next season. 12.8 in 08-09 and 13.6 09-10. The year is 2010, Larry Hughes is collecting 14 million from the Cavs. I can't even stand to type a joke about this.

Z-10.1 next. 10.8 in 08-09. And a player option for 11.5 in 09-10. There is a pretty good chance a 90 year old slow Z, with a history of foot problems is going to exercise that player option. The guy is 50/50 to be able to run at all in 2 ought 10.

Gooden 6.4 next, 7.1 the following. The Cavs should just negotiate with him to pick up his checks during the playoffs. At the rate he shows up they won't have to hand him anything.

And, a personal favorite. Eric Snow 6.7 next and 7.3 in 08-09. Read this sentence aloud; THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS ARE DUE TO PLAY ERIC SNOW 7.3 MILLION DOLLARS IN 2008-09. He's already about the sorriest player in the league. In two years it will be a lock.

Sorry about the bad news Cavs fans. But to my points of 1. They need to win the title THIS year and 2. They aren't making any significant moves for at least two seasons. This is your proof.

Incidentally, it takes them up until about the time Lebron leaves.

[StewieG]

Ira is our big trading chip for an average PG. Expiring contracts are like gold in the NBA. If we're able to trade anyone, it's him.

[Mr. MacPhisto]

What pisses me off most is that both of these games were winnable. The Cavs were in them and actually led at times. Better execution on offense and the Cavs are up 2-0 on the Pistons.

Talent is an issue at many positions, but I think coaching is a huge culprit here. Unfortunately, we're not getting rid of Roker so we're stuck with a mediocre head coach who has real trouble finding ways of applying the talent he has available - and he certainly provides no discipline.

[leadpipe]

Ira is our big trading chip for an average PG. Expiring contracts are like gold in the NBA. If we're able to trade anyone, it's him.

But Stewie the Cavs are 951-3 since they moved Hughes to the point. AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...........

[StewieG]

Lol, that may be, but it doesn't change the fact that he's worthless. If anything, it speaks to how awful Snow has been.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

The problem with this trade talk like we had before the trade deadline is.....the Cavs are locked into contracts so ridiculous nothing is going to change.

You had me with your first post, now I call bull. Chris Webber, Allen Iverson, even the Martial Artest all found new homes via trade. Hell, even Paxson found a sucker who would take the mortal remains of Shawn Kemp, Wes Person, and Lamond Murray. If Ferry looks hard enough, I'm sure he can find someone who'll take Hughes, Gooden, and/or Newble for a bag of magic beans.

And even with that, Ferry's from San Antonio where they've built titles out of other team's spare parts. He's already picked up Boobie on the cheap. A Bowen here, a Billups there, and soon it starts adding up.

[jfiling]

Re: Point Guards

I'm going to make an insane suggestion here.

Make whatever trade it takes to get Kevin Garnett, and move LeBron to the point.

Instant championship.

[jfiling]

Of course, considering such a trade would probably take Andy and Z, out starting lineup would end up looking something like:

1 - LeBron
2 - Hughes
3 - Pavs
4 - Garnett
5 - Marshall

I still say pencil it in for a championship.

[leadpipe]

The problem with this trade talk like we had before the trade deadline is.....the Cavs are locked into contracts so ridiculous nothing is going to change.

You had me with your first post, now I call bull. Chris Webber, Allen Iverson, even the Martial Artest all found new homes via trade. Hell, even Paxson found a sucker who would take the mortal remains of Shawn Kemp, Wes Person, and Lamond Murray. If Ferry looks hard enough, I'm sure he can find someone who'll take Hughes, Gooden, and/or Newble for a bag of magic beans.

And even with that, Ferry's from San Antonio where they've built titles out of other team's spare parts. He's already picked up Boobie on the cheap. A Bowen here, a Billups there, and soon it starts adding up.

You are more confident than I. Maybe you'll end up being correct. Nobody is taking Hughes contract though. Nobody.

[jfiling]

While I'm dreaming, how nice would it be to have Don Nelson coaching this team?

[StewieG]

It's a good idea to trade for Garnett, but I just don't see us having the horses to get it done. MAYBE Larry, Andy (re-signed) and Sasha (re-signed), and Gibson. Maybe. But I think the Bulls have a much more realistic chance of getting him, as they can offer a boatload of good young talent.

Plus, LeBron is not a PG. Have him play SG or SF and Garnett play PF, and get a decent PG in here, and you could surround them with scrubs and that team would win 50 games. 2 of the top 7 players in the game right now on the same team? Are you kidding me? I'm salivating.

But I don't think we'd be able to get it done.

[leadpipe]

Of course, considering such a trade would probably take Andy and Z, out starting lineup would end up looking something like:

1 - LeBron
2 - Hughes
3 - Pavs
4 - Garnett
5 - Marshall

I still say pencil it in for a championship.

Your penciling this line-up in for the championship? Those are the same 1-2-3 that are engineering the current debacle. They need a TRUE point that can get Lebron the ball and spread the floor. Lebron having the ball out front with Hughes on a wing ain't spreading a floor if the courts on the San Andreas fault.

[jfiling]

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/lebronjames.htm

LeBron's pre-draft scouting profile, which basically said he had all the skills of Magic Johnson.

As I remember it, LeBron was actually quite talented at the point his rookie year.

[jfiling]

Of course, considering such a trade would probably take Andy and Z, out starting lineup would end up looking something like:

1 - LeBron
2 - Hughes
3 - Pavs
4 - Garnett
5 - Marshall

I still say pencil it in for a championship.

Your penciling this line-up in for the championship? Those are the same 1-2-3 that are engineering the current debacle. They need a TRUE point that can get Lebron the ball and spread the floor. Lebron having the ball out front with Hughes on a wing ain't spreading a floor if the courts on the San Andreas fault.

Marshall is a great outside shooter, and Pavlovic is becoming one. With Garnett on the inside, along with some give-and-go between LeBron and Larry, I see huge scoring potential with that line-up.

[leadpipe]

It's not Lebron I would be worried about. The problem with the team ain't Lebron. It's that his Rodman or Grant is Drew Gooden. His Pippen is Larry Hughes.... Is it too much to ask to get the young 22 year old phenom a few easy shots every now and then.

[StewieG]

He has the skills, yes. But he doesn't have the mindset of a PG, at least not the type this team needs. Or at least not that he's displayed so far.

[StewieG]

One last thing on the whole was he/wasn't he fouled thing. I know most of you are set on your perception of the non-call. Some agree, some don't. That's fine. It's a matter of opinion.

However, Chris Sheridan does offer up a valid point in the daily dime.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... ime-070525

Last year, in the Finals, Dwayne Wade got every single touch-foul called his way. Every single one. If he drove to the hoop, it was automatic that he was going to the line. Yet LeBron gets hit many more times, and much worse (comparatively speaking) than Wade, and gets nothing.

So if the argument is that those calls are never made in that situation, then some would say look no further than Wade last year.

Also, Mike Brown should have gotten himself fined, according to Sheridan. At least make the next batch of refs think about it.

Finally, someone needs to slap the white right off of Rasheed Wallace's head. Seriously. Bring Pollard in and just clock him.

[HoodooMan]

So if the argument is that those calls are never made in that situation, then some would say look no further than Wade last year.

Or the way that period of the game has been called on a regular basis for the last 5-10 years. It used to be that almost anything goes in the final seconds of a playoff game--IMO, that's the way it SHOULD be--but what we've seen in recent years instead has been a shitload of free throw shooting contests at the end to decide playoff games.

But none of this is particularly relevant to last night's non-call, IMO. The way that entire game was called--the 4th quarter especially--to have blown the whistle on that play would have been like an ump calling a strike on a borderline pitch to the ouside when he'd had a ten foot wide strike zone all night long. The tone had been set. It was a physical one. The refs made it clear long before that play that they weren't going to give you much anything and you were going to have to man up and earn your points on your own.

LBJ/Waldo Nowitski didn't. 'Nother opportunity blown. 0-2.

PS to Herm, this can't be the 90 Bulls, because our Pippen has yet to find his Jordan.