San Antonio: Dirty Team

[StewieG]

After the crotch shot Bowen put on Nash, I thought they were playing dirty. Now, after Horry body-checked Nash into the sideline advertisements, I know they were playing dirty.

Watching the postgame show on TNT to see if Barkley has the balls to call them out on it. My guess? No.

[consigliere]

Sad part, is the Suns likely lose Stoudamire for Game 5.

[StewieG]

Well, Barkley stuck up for Phoenix, but never called anyone dirty.

The real crime is if Stoudamire and Diaw are suspended for leaving the bench. They didn't go very far, and the coaches held them back, but the law is the law. If San Antonio plays dirty and two of Phoenix' key players are suspended because of it, that's just complete BS. You're not rewarding San Antonio for being a dirty team.

If I'm Phoenix, I run Parker off a screen and give him a good shot every possession in the next game. Make him into a hockey player. Go 12 deep if you have to, make Jalen Rose get into the game and give him some hard fouls. Let them know you mess with our guy, we mess with yours. If you're Phoenix, who cares if Jalen Rose is suspended? But if you can get, say, Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen suspended for leaving the bench, why not?

This whole situation is stupid. San Antonio had better not be rewarded for being a dirty team. That would be just as bad as the lousy officiating going on in the playoffs.

[Mr. MacPhisto]

I love how the Spurs are playing.

Love it.

But I was a dirty player who kneed people in the crotch and wasn't ashamed to take the ball at all costs. I was good defensively when playing clean, but sometimes you have to go the extra mile to get the W.

Phoenix is the team I'm no fan of. I like defense, not the run & shoot offense they run. For the record, I loved watching the Fratello teams when I was in high school. Most people love to see the points, but I always respected the defensive effort and the ability to force your opponent to slow down.

Defense wins championships, even in basketball. The Suns may still make it out of this series but the Spurs will wear them down in the process. They also suckered Stoudamire and Diaw into getting all upset - and that is those guys' fault for not controlling themselves.

If I'm Phoenix, I run Parker off a screen and give him a good shot every possession in the next game. Make him into a hockey player. Go 12 deep if you have to, make Jalen Rose get into the game and give him some hard fouls. Let them know you mess with our guy, we mess with yours. If you're Phoenix, who cares if Jalen Rose is suspended? But if you can get, say, Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen suspended for leaving the bench, why not?

Not happening because SA is cool and knows what they're doing. I don't think Phoenix can do the hard fouls very well. They're not hard fighters and they still have so much to prove. The Spurs know what it takes to win and are willing to do it. The Phoenix Suns have yet to prove they are anything but a bunch of pussies.

[leadpipe]

I wonder if the Spurs would be playing like this if they had to answer to someone. As I've mentioned before, Bruce Bowen wouldn't be kneeing Kiki Vandeweghe in the crotch if he knew Jerry Lucas was going to elbow him in the teeth, sooner rather than later. As far as Diaw and Stoudemire not being able to control themselves, well, thay actually did. If you don't react to the heart and soul of your team getting cheap shotted, well...

Bottom line is The Spurs may think they are shaking the Suns up, but they are the ones who choked that game away at home. If the Suns were intimidated you couldn't tell in the last eight minutes of that game.

[StewieG]

Mac, you and I will agree to disagree on this one. I won't say anything else.

I did hear, though I don't know if it's true or not, that Duncan left the bench when Elson dunked, then thought he was undercut by a Suns player running back up the court. I saw the play, and there was nothing dirty about it on anyone's part (Elson hung on the rim to keep from coming down on a Suns player, and let go as said Suns player started running back up the court, and came down right on top of him), but I did not see Duncan leave the bench, nor do I remember if he was even on the bench on that particular play. But if he was, and he did, and Stoudamire and Diaw are suspended, then he better be too.

[StewieG]

Well there you go. Horry suspended 2 games, Stoudamire and Diaw both will be out game 5, Duncan not suspended. Still no idea if he actually left the bench or not though.

[Dozen]

Well there you go. Horry suspended 2 games, Stoudamire and Diaw both will be out game 5, Duncan not suspended. Still no idea if he actually left the bench or not though.

IMO, I would like the league to rule on these actions on a individual basis. Yeah I know what the rule is but there is no one outside of San Antonio who thinks this is a fair ruling. It takes away from a great series and as a fan of basketball it litterally disgusts me.

[He Gone]

According to somebody on ESPN(Cant remember who). Duncan and someone else left the bench at that point.

I find it odd and sort of unfair that Amare gets off the bench and ends up with a suspension, where as DUncan gets off the hook...

Think it could have anything to do with the whole Joey Crawford situation?

[StewieG]

Well it looks as though Duncan actually did leave the bench. Ok, so if you suspend Stoudamire and Diaw, then you have to suspend Duncan too. If I were a Suns fan, I'd be absolutely pissed right now.

[mattvan1]

Well it looks as though Duncan actually did leave the bench. Ok, so if you suspend Stoudamire and Diaw, then you have to suspend Duncan too. If I were a Suns fan, I'd be absolutely pissed right now.

I think the key, at least in the eyes of the NBA, is do players leave the bench during an 'altercation"? From what I heard (ESPN Radio) Duncan did leave the bench but there was to no threat of a dust-up, so he gets a pass.

Of course, the real reason is that Stern wants to see this one go 7 games, as no one outside of Cleveland and Detroit give 2 shits about the EC finals. Also, Doug Gottleib floated the idea that Stu Jackson brings the hammer down today, but then Stern steps in tomorrrow and lets Stoudamire and Diaw play in Game 5. Where's Charles Oakley or Bill Lambier when you need them?

[FUDU]

Man did Phoenix get screwed over bad.

I have always said if a pro sports league was fixed it would be the NBA without a doubt, and this is one of those reasons why.

No doubt in my mind they are catering to SA and giving them every advantage possible to advance.

Duncan should have been suspended for leaving the bench in game four 1st half, Bowen too from what I saw. There is no gray area with this rule, leave the bench and you sit a game. The NBA saying they didn't judge the incident of that time of the game as an altercation is just spin.

I no fan of either team but I am pissed.

Now I am rooting for Phoenix though.

[pup]

Why would the NBA favor San Antonio over Phoenix? You don't think the high scoring fast paced style of the Suns is more attractive? You don't think most people want to see the Suns in the Finals? I am pretty sure they would attract higher ratings than the Spurs.

The NBA is in a bad spot right here. The rule is black and white. If there is an altercation, and you leave the bench area, you are suspended. There was a fight, both Suns players left the bench area, so they are suspended. Stoudamire left the bench, was corraled by teammates and coaches AND bulled through them all to nearly get to Horry anyway.

What Duncan did happens 10 times a game. Players are always getting up off the bench and technically stepping onto the floor. There was no fight, so there is no suspension.

And if it is so hard to not go defend your teammate, why is there only 2 suspensions? Don't the Suns have 7 players on their bench? Why didn't all 7 run out there? Because they know the rules, and followed them.

[BruceK]

Finally got to see the video -- now I see why the Cavs keep Scott Pollard around -- so you can retaliate without losing a key member

[swerb]

I don't think this Spurs team would have been considered a dirty team 15 years ago. The league really has been pussified by David Stern. To the point where a physical team, playing a physical brand of ball in the playoffs is considered dirty. The Bad Boy Pistons made this Spur team look like Swiss Family Robinson.

Its hard to blame Stern though. Hes been the best commissioner I've ever seen in my lifetime. The game is thriving. The right rule changes have been consistently made year by year. And while me, you, and most people reading this like to see a good fracas ... corporate luxury box and season ticket holders don't, and fights are nearly non existent in the league due to the effects of Stern's heavy handed rules to prevent them.

Its no coincidence that NBA basketball is thriving. And this is ten years after the sports was left for dead once Jordan, Magic, and Bird retired. Who would have thought pro basketball would be this healthy when we were in the midst of the lockout and lobor strife a decade ago?

Granted, LeBron has singlehandedly revitalized interest in this area but most of my friends despised the sport back in the late 90's. Pro basketball is as healthy as its ever been. New attendance and season ticket holder records are broken every season.

Is it a shame what happened to the Suns? It absolutely is. But a rule is a rule. To "make an exception" in this case, just because this has been such a great series ... it wouldn't be the right thing to do. It would open Pandoras Box to the 1997 NY Knicks and every player in the last decade that got suspended and lost pay for barely leaving the sidelines and going onto the court.

Of course, I love a good controversy ... so I am pulling for the Spurs to win tonight, and then finish them at home in game six. Of course, thats what I would have been cheering for anyway. I hate the GD Suns, and am on the side of the argument that thinks they are whiny bitches.

[leadpipe]

I'll say it till I'm blue in the face. The rules as they stand now allow teams to pull bullshit with little accountablilty. Nobody is chucking Jordan out of bounds when they know Charles Oakley might kill them in the OFF season. This whole "rule is black and white" in this case is garbage. You make rules for the game to be fair. For the Spurs to be rewarded for a cheap shot is laughable. As for Stoudemire and Diaw stepping on the floor while nobody else did, well, they were in the seats at the near end of the bench because they play many minutes and they were certainly under control after the initial few seconds. As Swerb sadi, Stern has done wonders for the league, but this decision is unjust.

[Dozen]

I'll say it till I'm blue in the face. The rules as they stand now allow teams to pull bullshit with little accountablilty. Nobody is chucking Jordan out of bounds when they know Charles Oakley might kill them in the OFF season. This whole "rule is black and white" in this case is garbage. You make rules for the game to be fair. For the Spurs to be rewarded for a cheap shot is laughable. As for Stoudemire and Diaw stepping on the floor while nobody else did, well, they were in the seats at the near end of the bench because they play many minutes and they were certainly under control after the initial few seconds. As Swerb sadi, Stern has done wonders for the league, but this decision is unjust.

well said