2011 NBA Draft Official Thread

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Mentioned repeatedly and cited as the Cavs being scared of waiting a year for Vala as a reason by EVERY GOOD REPORTER.

Well, yeah. So then they went for Thompson over Vecsey who would've been here just as sooner than Vala. And maybe Biyombo too. All of whom suddenly turned into guys who matter instead of the humps after Kyrie we all thought they were a month and a half ago.

Seriously, all I learned tonight is how easily we'll lose our shit over not drafting Jonas Fucking Valacinuas.

[StewieG]

My guess is they're gambling that Dewey will bolt with them still being in cap hell.

[Orenthal]

That shit was changing by the minute. Just like Vala dropping, then not dropping, then getting passed by us, then getting picked by a team and GM that would not pick a Euro. There is only the fact it was a reach to just about every draft follower is certain. Like getting the future seconds. Gotta see what they do in the next seven days.

[e0y2e3]

This might be too much for OJ to handle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOr2Cu9D ... r_embedded

[motherscratcher]

I don't understand how a rebuilding team doesn't do something there.

I mean christ, draft a Euro risk or something.

DO SOMETHING

How the hell are we going to draft a guy who has to play another season in Europe when we are trying to win a Championship before LeBron?

OUR TIME IS NOW!!!

[JCoz]

Thinking it wouldnt have been the worst move in the world for the heat to have purchased a pick and grabbed a guy like Diebs...

[mikeperry]

Acting like I am making shit up here is just fucking ignorant. The reason this came out was to get someone who can play now.

I'll let you choose between the GM being too dumb to take the better prospect that he likes more because he has to sit for a year while you are supposed to suck or the owner making the call.

Get defensive much? No one is saying you are making anything up. I am saying that the pre-draft speculation, hype and reports are usually as reliable as LBJ is loyal. Getting bent out of shape because someone does not agree with you doesn't change things.

No, because you are claiming reports from guys who nailed every single trade and angle for this draft as wrong when they are correct.

Acting like Woj is Clayton and Amick is Sam Amico is silly and doesn't even warrant a response. Be happy I gave you what I gave you. You're just covering your ears and screaming trying to pretend that all of these attemtped trades and what not didn't happen today.

Sure, because I don't know anyone in the media around here. I know exactly what happened today, what was said and not said, and how the situation played out. It does not matter what you heard or what was reported on Yahoo or ESPN...wait, they are never wrong, right? Like when Broussard initially reported Lebron was going to stay in Cleveland and was trying to get Bosh to join him...that actually happened, right? You can be certain you are right...no sweat off my back...but your insistance that there is NO WAY you could POSSIBLY have been misled is entertaining.

[e0y2e3]

That shit was changing by the minute. Just like Vala dropping, then not dropping, then getting passed by us, then getting picked by a team and GM that would not pick a Euro. There is only the fact it was a reach to just about every draft follower is certain. Like getting the future seconds. Gotta see what they do in the next seven days.

No it wasn't changing by the minute, the timetable is pretty damn easy.

Yesterday overreaction from all analysts dropped him. Today they got their senses back and the Cavs started abusing the phone lines to try and make it easier to convince Gilbert to take him.

Cavs made it very clear they loved him.

Cavs passed on him.

It didn't change by the minute at all, the only shift was from the initial buyout news to today.

[e0y2e3]

Yes - Chris Broussard is certainly Woj as is the shitty local Ohio Cavs press.

Mike, you want to be a flower running homer be my guest, but stop talking about what went down today when you didn't even fucking follow it.

Isn't there a Mac player for you to write on or some other useless shit?

[mikeperry]

Macvan is a friggin animal. Too bad he will never play a minute in a Cavaliers uniform. He is like a hockey enforcer.

[mikeperry]

Yes - Chris Broussard is certainly Woj as is the shitty local Ohio Cavs press.

Mike, you want to be a flower running homer be my guest, but stop talking about what went down today when you didn't even fucking follow it.

Isn't there a Mac player for you to write on or some other useless shit?

You have to be the biggest friggin baby on these boards. Grow the fuck up, little boy. I thought that might be your son or something in your avatar...the way you act I think it might be you.

When you are done acting like a seven-year-old brat, stomping your foot because someone does not see things your way, come back at me. Until then how about you figure out what maturity is and look to add some of it to your lonely life.

[jta1975]

4 picks, 2 players 2 more second round picks....there is a ton of work that needs to get done to clear out the log jams. Too many PGs and PFs combined with no 2's or 3's... I hope and pray Eyenga continues to develop and Kyrie better be sick

[e0y2e3]

Sure Mike, I'll just go sit in my corner and wait for your next breathe of fresh air about shitty I-A sports that you follow while ignoring what is actually happening w/ the pro teams.

Rock on!

[e0y2e3]

4 picks, 2 players 2 more second round picks....there is a ton of work that needs to get done to clear out the log jams. Too many PGs and PFs combined with no 2's or 3's... I hope and pray Eyenga continues to develop and Kyrie better be sick

On the plus side they should be drafting early next year.

And hopefully they can use the TPE before the lockout to get something before it becomes a giant failure.

[e0y2e3]

ShamSports Mark Deeks
Chukwudiebere Maduabum is the player to ever be drafted in the NBA having averaged 0.7ppg in the D-League the previous season.

[StewieG]

Is Chukwlekrjlkajr the worst guy ever drafted?

[mikeperry]

Sure Mike, I'll just go sit in my corner and wait for your next breathe of fresh air about shitty I-A sports that you follow while ignoring what is actually happening w/ the pro teams.

Rock on!

Yes, because STO and TCF are the only places I write for. And trash the MAC all you want...that's a real smart thing to do about the conference STO decided to cover during the Indians' off-season. I cannot believe they did not check with you before they made the decision to cover the MAC.

[JCoz]

Is Chukwlekrjlkajr the worst guy ever drafted?

Chukwamazilly!

championship!.........

Steadily drank this draft into the right direction.

[StewieG]

And a special "Fuck You" to ESPN for their abysmal draft coverage.

[e0y2e3]

Is Chukwlekrjlkajr the worst guy ever drafted?

Steadily drank this draft into the right direction.

[JCoz]

Dead horse?

[e0y2e3]

Drinking away a Cavs draft?

That's been sport since what, forever?

[pup]

So it is 100% impossible TT was their man all along?

And they were floating the Euro Trash rumors to try to get someone that really wanted him to trade up to 4? So they could take TT plus another first rounder? No way that is possible?

Christ. Get over yourselves.

[JCoz]

Right. Fair enough.

lol.

[JCoz]

So it is 100% impossible TT was their man all along?

And they were floating the Euro Trash rumors to try to get someone that really wanted him to trade up to 4? So they could take TT plus another first rounder? No way that is possible?

Christ. Get over yourselves.

Wish people on message boards were a little more specific, so I could more easily identify which comments I should be responding to directly.

[pup]

So it is 100% impossible TT was their man all along?

And they were floating the Euro Trash rumors to try to get someone that really wanted him to trade up to 4? So they could take TT plus another first rounder? No way that is possible?

Christ. Get over yourselves.

Wish people on message boards were a little more specific, so I could more easily identify which comments I should be responding to directly.

Anyone who considers this the worst day in the history of this sorry franchise.
Anyone who has never seen TT, or the guys "they passed on" play more than a couple of hourse on the court.

Am I really supposed to go quote everyone from pages 2-7?

[e0y2e3]

So it is 100% impossible TT was their man all along?

And they were floating the Euro Trash rumors to try to get someone that really wanted him to trade up to 4? So they could take TT plus another first rounder? No way that is possible?

Christ. Get over yourselves.

Yeah, everyone was trying to trade up and Woj misreported about the Cavs (along with every single other NBA reporter that is worth a damn) because he is an idiot and the Cavs were running some ridiculous smoke screen that was pointless because no one was going to trade up unless Kanter fell (who they weren't pushing rumors on).

Rock on living in bliss.

[e0y2e3]

Never seen a bigger collection of bullshit defending of what is practically public record because people want to be homers.

Fucking shameful and embarrassing for you all to be honest.

[e0y2e3]

And I don't think anyone is dumb enough to call drafting Kyrie the worst day in the history of the franchise.

This is however about a retarded a mindset to enter into a rebuild on as possible. Fuck they may get lucky and it may work it, but that doesn't defeat the stupidity behind it.

[JCoz]

So it is 100% impossible TT was their man all along?

And they were floating the Euro Trash rumors to try to get someone that really wanted him to trade up to 4? So they could take TT plus another first rounder? No way that is possible?

Christ. Get over yourselves.

Wish people on message boards were a little more specific, so I could more easily identify which comments I should be responding to directly.

Anyone who considers this the worst day in the history of this sorry franchise.
Anyone who has never seen TT, or the guys "they passed on" play more than a couple of hourse on the court.

Am I really supposed to go quote everyone from pages 2-7?

Chill, was more of a joke chief. This is most certainly not the worst day in the franchises history. Thats a sad fact, that will be near impossible to disprove.

[daddywags]

Or maybe it could be exactly what everybody was reporting: We were enamored of JV but nervous about his uncertain buyout situation, liked Kanter too and might have taken him for ourselves or to trade down to the Wiz at 6 (to take JV), and Thompson made quite an impression on us, too - especially the stats guys in our front office? I don't read nearly as much stuff as some other folks do, but that comports pretty well with everything I've read in the past week or so about us at 4.

[e0y2e3]

We bitched on picking the top guy on our board because he would have had to sit in Europe for a year.

That tells a pretty effin big story about the FO and ownership's view of this "rebuild" and it's pretty fucking obvious what that story is too anyone with half a brain.

[OldDawg]

Hey, I had visions of the 1986 draft.
1) Brad Daugherty
6) Ron Harper
25) Mark Price

Instead, we got Kyrie Irving.

Heck, at #4 you need to get something clearly better than what you have. We did not. Vala was clearly better than what we had. And has a much higher upside. And we have to wait a year to get him, but then we suck worse next year and get more ping pong balls... clearly not bad for a rebuild plan.

Instead, we get a guy at 4 who does not make us a better team next year. So we will still suck next year and have plenty of ping pong balls. The only difference is that we won't have Vala waiting for us.

Ugh!

http://www.mynbadraft.com/1986/round1/

Edit: Ironically, this 1986 group had added to it John "Hot Rod" Williams, who, by the way, we had to wait a year to play after we drafted him in 1985. Although the waiting was for different reasons (a trial on bribery and conspiracy).

Daugherty, Harper and Williams all made the 1986-7 all rookie team. Price emerged the next year.

[pup]

So it is 100% impossible TT was their man all along?

And they were floating the Euro Trash rumors to try to get someone that really wanted him to trade up to 4? So they could take TT plus another first rounder? No way that is possible?

Christ. Get over yourselves.

Yeah, everyone was trying to trade up and Woj misreported about the Cavs (along with every single other NBA reporter that is worth a damn) because he is an idiot and the Cavs were running some ridiculous smoke screen that was pointless because no one was going to trade up unless Kanter fell (who they weren't pushing rumors on).

Rock on living in bliss.

So if noone was trading up for anyone but Kanter, who have they been calling for the last few days?

No bliss. No blind faith. Just think it is possible a stats driven organization has TT near the top of their board. Pretty well confirmed by Hollinger putting out his Mock and have TT near the top.

Knowing other teams are not as stats driven, the hot name in this draft was some Euro Flake that needs another year playing 15 minutes a game averaging 7 and 5 against B competition before he will bless the NBA with his presence.


Chad Ford:

The Cavs do like Thompson. We began writing about this Wednesday, and one tip was that their analytics team loved him. He's one of the best offensive rebounders around and a good athlete with a great motor. Still, there's a chance they will move this pick. The Bobcats tried to move up and get him, and they talked to the Cavs about a deal. But if this is the Cavs' pick, I think it's a really good one.

Favorite caveat ever...the Cavs might get lucky and this pans out, but it is still a stupid choice. So if TT is double doubling while Euro trash is too soft to get get 18 minutes a night in AAA, it is a bad choice.

[OldDawg]

Again, I love Irving. But I would have liked DWill + Knight much better than Irving + Thompson. I think DWill and Knight both make us better, short term and long term. As it stands, only Irving makes up better.

[daddywags]

We bitched on picking the top guy on our board because he would have had to sit in Europe for a year.

That tells a pretty effin big story about the FO and ownership's view of this "rebuild" and it's pretty fucking obvious what that story is too anyone with half a brain.

Hey, ain't sayin' you're wrong, but really not sure - other than reading what lots and lots of media types write - how you know for certain who was "the top guy on our board." I came to the same conclusion from reading what little I did, but I very rarely put that much credence into what even multiple media types write. YMMV. IMO, people with at least "half a brain" put little or no value on what they read in the media.

[pup]

Hey, I had visions of the 1986 draft.
1) Brad Daugherty
6) Ron Harper
25) Mark Price

Instead, we got Kyrie Irving.

Heck, at #4 you need to get something clearly better than what you have. We did not. Vala was clearly better than what we had. And has a much higher upside. And we have to wait a year to get him, but then we suck worse next year and get more ping pong balls... clearly not bad for a rebuild plan.

Instead, we get a guy at 4 who does not make us a better team next year. So we will still suck next year and have plenty of ping pong balls. The only difference is that we won't have Vala waiting for us.

Ugh!

http://www.mynbadraft.com/1986/round1/

Edit: Ironically, this 1986 group had added to it John "Hot Rod" Williams, who, by the way, we had to wait a year to play after we drafted him in 1985. Although the waiting was for different reasons (a trial on bribery and conspiracy).

Daugherty, Harper and Williams all made the 1986-7 all rookie team. Price emerged the next year.

TT is better than JJ Hickson who is the only relevant PF on the Cavs.

[OldDawg]

Again, I love Irving. But I would have liked DWill + Knight much better than Irving + Thompson. I think DWill and Knight both make us better, short term and long term. As it stands, only Irving makes up better.

Heck, I think I like Kanter + Knight better than Irving + Thompson

[OldDawg]

TT is better than JJ Hickson who is the only relevant PF on the Cavs.

We shall see.

[JJN]

TT is better than JJ Hickson who is the only relevant PF on the Cavs.

Smaller than Hickson, less athletic than Hickson, way less offensive game than Hickson. Frankly, I'll need to be convinced that he is a better rebounder than Hickson is. College numbers say he isn't, even though JJ played less time.

[YahooFanChicago]

Seems that Matt Moore (Analyst at CBS Sports) likes the Cavs draft and listed them as a "winner" in the draft. He also seems to like the TT selection.

I don't know what qualifies Matt Moore as an expert but here is his opinion:

Posted by Matt Moore

It's all over. After an underwhelming crop of draft choices led to a flurry of trades, the dust has settled and the picks are wearing the right hats, finally. Here are your winners and losers of the 2011 NBA Draft:

Winners
Cleveland Cavaliers: Irving is mostly a case of winning by default, but they wouldn't have been the first team to be unable to get out of their own way with an obvious pick. Irving gives them a franchise point guard to build around and was the best player overall in this draft. Going for Derrick Williams would have been sheer hubris in order to burn LeBron by choosing a replacement forward. Then, with the fourth, they could have opted for Valanciunas, which would have been a good pick. But there's a reason so many teams were chasing Tristan Thompson. His workouts showed how he would translate on the next level, and with that kind of athleticism, he provides a good running partner for Irving. They managed to not overcomplicate the combination of two top-five picks. They got good talent both small and big. That's a win right there.

[YahooFanChicago]

I also read on another forum that Chad Ford liked the Cavs draft including the selection of TT. The post included a link but it was to ESPN insider crap so I can't see it or verify it.

[pup]

TT is better than JJ Hickson who is the only relevant PF on the Cavs.

Smaller than Hickson, less athletic than Hickson, way less offensive game than Hickson. Frankly, I'll need to be convinced that he is a better rebounder than Hickson is. College numbers say he isn't, even though JJ played less time.

Have you watched JJ Hickson play basketball? Drew Gooden is embarrassed to be compared to him intellectually.

[CP]

Hollinger on Justin Harper:

• Orlando traded two future second-rounders to Cleveland for No. 32 pick Justin Harper, who fits the Magic system like a glove with his long-range shooting and general indifference to rebounding and contact. On another team that's a liability; as long as Dwight Howard is around it won't matter much in Orlando.

[swerb]

Really liked what the Wizards did - getting Jan Vesely, Chris Singleton, and Shelvin Mack. With Wall, Blatche, Young, McGee ... they got a nice young base to rebuild around there.

Also thought the Bobcats did well dumping salary, getting Biyombo. Adding Kemba to an already undersized G in Augustin is questionable, but I thought they needed to get younger and mix things up.

Pistons - I really think Brandon Knight and Singler both become nice NBA players.

Blazers pick up Felton, Nolan Smith, and Diebler for their back court. Jordan Hamilton on the wing. With Roy, Wallace, Aldridge ... if Camby and Oden can stay on the court ....

Those were the teams I thought did well. Utah too w Kanter and the G from CU.

[Prosecutor]

Just watched the video of Grant talking about the draft. FWIW, he said he loved both Kyrie and TT "early on", and "they just kept moving up". He specifically talked about them both being "fantastic people" and said "that means a lot to us". Really? After LeBron? Shocking.

So maybe TT nailing that interview was a factor.

Grant went on to rave about TT's "motor, athleticism, competitiveness, energy, shot-blocking", and productivity in a high level conference.

He also made the point that the picks were made with an eye toward how these two players would complement each other, with Kyrie being a "distributor" and TT obviously being more of a finisher, and that they present a "unique combination" that the Cavs believe can "grow together".

It seemed like there was a contradiction because he said the plan was to take the two "best players regardless of position", but then he said the picks were not "made in a vacuum" and they considered how these players would fit together.

Unfortunately there was no comment on why they chose TT over Vala. Maybe that will come out later. For those who think Vala was the BPA, you could argue that he was the BP, but maybe not the BPA.

The Cavs drafted Eyenga knowing they would have to wait and when he finally showed up he was not exactly a finished product. They drafted the center from Russia and they're still waiting on him. I wonder how much that affected their thinking on taking a guy at #4 that they might not see for two years. It's tough to rebuild when your main big man is playing in Lithuania.

I don't know if TT was the better choice, and we won't know for at least a couple of years, but I'm looking forward to watching this team run the floor and bang the offensive glass. Between AV and TT there will be a lot of second chances. There's a lot more athleticism now than there was when we had Z in the post, LeBron dominating the ball, and non-athletic shooters like Wally, Yell, and Damon Jones launching 3's. Should be fun to watch these kids grow.

Finally, I'm wondering when the other shoe will drop and either JJ or Sessions or both will be moved.

[e0y2e3]

Pup, stop being a fuck just to be a fuck.

The analytics haven't changed on TT. They didn't cause this magical 48 hour bump up.

The trade targets were Washington who loved Kanter and then trying to get antoher later top ten pick so we could get TT and Vala.

This is written in stone pure fact reporting from evey fucking source out there.

After the fact this is still written in stone pure fact reporting.

As for pretending Vala played be competition, he played in a far better league than our draft pick who did this against top competition:

TT's pt/reb totals against top competition this past season:

vs Pitt: 11/6
vs UNC: 4/5
vs UCONN: 13/6
vs Kansas: 12/6
vs Kansas: 7/2
vs Arizona: 3/6

This was a call because our org refused to have a player sit for a year during the first year of a rebuild. Pretending otherwise is being a fuck just to be a fuck.

I'm not citing fucking Brousard and Amico here, we tried desperately to trade yesterday, couldn't and pussed out and took the back-up choice because he could play right away.

If you want to argue about how far behind Vala we had TT rated that is a nice starting point, because that is something no one knows.

We know for sure Vala was ahead of him though.

[e0y2e3]

And this just took the first year of a rebuild and failed to use their TPE, failed to dump any excess players for picks, failed to get a late first (something that half of the teams in the league grabbed yesterday) and even failed to use their early 2nd.

Pretty fucking bad show after Kyrie.

[leadpipe]

So I guess I'm the only one who got the exact 2 guys he wanted.

Nope, I love both picks. I think TT is going to be better than Williams because of his frame and athleticism. Williams is a tweener who had an amazing conference tournament and NCAA tourney game against Duke. Other than that all season he was meh. Thompson has a nice wingspan, a standing reach of over nine feet and a 35-inch vertical. He has the raw materials to be coached up.

It never ceases to amaze me that people, on draft night, determine that a franchise blew it. Sure. Oden was this lock No. 1 or No. 2 pick and the Blazers got high grades for getting him. How did that work out. (Damn, Leuer just went. I wanted him).

Everyone needs to relax. Thompson is going to be an outstanding player. He was effective in a damn good conference, is young and has tons of potential. To talk about how the Cavs screwed this draft up already is silly.

Definitely hope you're right about TT.

I think that for a lot of people here it is not the player picked as much as what the pick reveals about the hierarchy of organizational decision makers. (That's a thing, right?)

Which it total, utter, complete speculation...correct?

And you aren't speculating about Thompson? Correct?

He was effective in a good conference does not easily equal outstanding player. Being outstanding in a good conference would make me feel better about a guy becoming outstanding in the greatest league in the world.

Saw Texas several times, and I'm sure many on here did as well. Never did the guy jump out to me as a top five pick in any draft. Unless there's some out of the ordinary development offensively, his ceiling is awful low on the offensive end. If that;s the case he needs to be EXTRAORDINARY everywhere else. I didn't see that ON THE FLOOR, which is why I'm concerned.

In a nutshell:

1. It was poor value at #4

2. I'm nervous that this was a Gilbert pick.

3. Most importantly, in ANY sport, I'm real nervous about a guy who shoots up the draft board based on INTERVIEWS and WORKOUTS instead of killing it on the floor. Sorry, but a top fiver in the draft needs to be better in GAMES, not interviews.

Lastly, don't embarrass yourself with the Williams comment. As noted above, Williams does everything better, with the exception of rebounding - and Williams wasn't healthy much of the year. Closest to 100% he was all year was tourney time - and he didn't need good good workouts or interviews to be #@. It was right there for everyone to see.

I hope I'm wrong, but there are Mike Mamula's in sports and there are guys that are gret in games. I'll take the percentages every time.

and as far as people worrying about the organization on draft night, well, there's damn near 40 years of reasons why in regard to the Cavs.

If indeed this was the MLP's pick, he'd better pan out, cause he's on the fast track of becoming one of the joke owners in sports.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Never did the guy jump out to me as a top five pick in any draft.

Who else was left on the board at #4 that did?