Call the Picks

[daddywags]

The Heat had a huge collection of young talent, aquired through the draft, that they turned into Shaq. Shaq was a trade, not a FA BTW.

That's true, but I recall Shaq forcing his way out of LA and to Miami. Could be wrong. He wasn't a FA, though, so you're right.

[Orenthal]

^and Brian Grant's monster contract.

[e0y2e3]

The Heat had a huge collection of young talent, aquired through the draft, that they turned into Shaq. Shaq was a trade, not a FA BTW.

That's true, but I recall Shaq forcing his way out of LA and to Miami. Could be wrong. He wasn't a FA, though, so you're right.

Shaq didn't so much force his way out.

What you are remembering is the Kobe and Shaq divorce where the Lakers org was forced to pick on or the other. They picked Bryant.

[daddywags]

The Heat had a huge collection of young talent, aquired through the draft, that they turned into Shaq. Shaq was a trade, not a FA BTW.

That's true, but I recall Shaq forcing his way out of LA and to Miami. Could be wrong. He wasn't a FA, though, so you're right.

Shaq didn't so much force his way out.

What you are remembering is the Kobe and Shaq divorce where the Lakers org was forced to pick on or the other. They picked Bryant.

Yep. Exactly.

[StewieG]

Kanter's camp according to the DX chat at hoopsworld is leaking that Vala is higher on the Cavs draft board.

Amick at SI (who is very well connected) is reporting Kanter.

I hate predraft ramp up.

This, to me, coupled with reports that Kanter really wants to join Cavs (especially with Erden on the roster) screams that Kanter is the pick at 4 if he's there.

[e0y2e3]

Yahoo Mock = Sad OJ

[Orenthal]

They still using Dx for their mock?

ETA
Also Kanter in tomorrow for his workout with Cavs...

[Orenthal]

Only a pick outside of Kanter/Bismack/Vala/Williams (if he drops) would send me into the 7 levels of hell. Getting 1 to get Irving was teets, I won't get too crazy...

BFTLOG (But for the love of God) FREE ENES!

Givony is pretty convinced on the Cavs having Kanter 3rd of Vala/Bismack/Kanter. Personally I have them flipped.

You know I prefer this one.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... index.html

[JJN]

Kanter is working out against Tristan Thompson and Marcus Morris tomorrow in CLE for his first workout against competition, according to Chad Ford.

[StewieG]

Draft is less than 2 weeks away. Here's some things twitter has been saying:

Cavs sneakily worked out Irving June 9, and may do so again. Apparently toe is 100% healthy. Doesn't need to be said, but I'll say it anyway...this pick is a foregone conclusion barring Irving going on a 3-state murder spree.

Wolves are deciding between Kanter and Williams at 2. Some believe Wolves like Kanter because he fits in better with current roster. Others believe they'll take BPA (Williams) and work roster around him...likely trading Beasley and Flynn to make room for he and Rubio.

Jazz will take Williams at 3 if he's there. If not, they're deciding between Kanter, Knight, and Vesely. Personally, Vesely would shock me here. I'd go Kanter, were I them, but Knight fits a need too.

Cavs will almost certainly have Valanciunas on the board here when we pick. I think he's our guy, even if Kanter is still on the board. Personally I prefer Kanter, but I've come around a bit on Vala. If we take Vesely, I'm going to shit a brick.

If Knight is on the board when Raps pick, they will take him. Book it. If not, I think they go Kemba Walker. Could go Kanter if he's still on the board and Knight's not.

Washington really likes Kanter. If both Vala and Kanter are on the board when Cavs pick, it wouldn't shock me to see Cavs and Wash swap spots. Vala should still be on board at 6 as I don't think Toronto takes him. If they stay here and Kanter is gone...no idea what they do. Maybe Vesely.

Regardless, it looks like Irving and Vala will be Cavs on draft night. Any suggestions on players to watch for in the 2nd round? I'd expect they'll take at least one Euro to stash.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Passing on Kanter sounds more of a recipe for Orenthal to go on the tri-state murder spree.

[e0y2e3]

Lot of general and Biymombo thoughts from DX on Twitter this AM.

And I don't think Vala is a lock at all. I think it's either Vala or Kanter.

Although admittedly I've softened on Vala at this point (even though he still has no offensive game) I don't really care which we grab.

More concerned with GM Puppet managing to aquire more picks as he indicated he wants to do.

[Orenthal]

New mock by Amick this morning too.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... nba_t11_a1

This seems about how it should be slotted, but with this drafts weakness and Minny wanting out of a slotted Williams pick, the chips have to fall to see what will be there at 4. I wonder how much the Vala buyout plays into the Cavaliers thinking, cause even without the buyout it seems like he needs another season in Europe.

Amick on Utah radio yesterday.
http://1280thezone.com/THE-GORDON-MONSO ... ?pid=51982

[StewieG]

IMO, if Vala is the player they like the most, the buyout shouldn't be a reason for them not to take him. Even if, worst case scenario, he's not over here for another 2 years, the plan should be to tank the shit out of this year (and next), get 2 more high draft picks, let contracts come off the books, then in 2013-2014 see what you have. Next year's draft is very talented, especially on the wing. Gilchrist, Miller, Jones, Barnes, Rivers...all of those guys are very talented wing players. Anthony Davis will probably be the top pick.

Getting a center this year, be it Kanter, Vala, or whoever is very important. Next year's class is not very good for the center position. Patrick Young (undersized) is the only one rated in the lottery on draft express, and the next center behind him is Tyler Zeller. Gak. I'm not opposed to drafting another center with the 32 pick, if a decent one is available. Would have liked a shot at Lucas Nogueira, but he withdrew after he couldn't get a first round promise. Maybe we can buy a pick in the early-to-mid 20's and get someone like Vucevic, or maybe someone else falls lower than expected.

[JJN]

The nice thing about Vala is that his strength is the pick and roll, which we should run constantly with Kyrie. If Paul can devastate LAL with Aaron Gray setting the picks, Vala and Kyrie should be a very solid combo. He also, reportedly, has huge hands, which may help given that one of our other front court members may be playing without actually owning a pair of hands.

I don't think we would have had a shot at Nogueira, everything I've seen had him going in the first round. He may not have gotten a promise, but I bet he would have went. Jeremy Tyler and Keith Benson are two bigs I wouldn't mind using a 2nd rounder on. Both could have big upsides (Benson is 6'11 and pretty athletic and a decent shooter while Tyler is more of a big body that has the look).

Would definitely like to get a 2 or 3 in the second round (Jimmy Butler, Malcom Lee, Bogan Blagovich - or whatever the fuck his name is). We'd probably have to get back into the 1st round, but Iman Shumpert could be a great defensive stopper 1-3. Kid is a freak: 6'6, 6'9.5" wingspan, 42 inch vert, 18 reps (only bested by 2 PFs at 19 a piece). Hits his free throws. I also find Chris Singleton really intriguing as a superb stopper at maybe all 5 positions depending on matchups (although it looks as though he got himself into the lottery), as well as Tobias Harris (who may be that guy who does a little of everything - and if we don't take Kanter, may immediately have more post moves than anyone else on the team).

[swerb]

LOVE this mock

http://www.nbadraft.net/2011mock_draft

Kyrie, Kanter, JaJuan Johnson from Purdue, DeAndre Liggins fom UK

[Orenthal]

Ahhh Monter has finally gotten his a bit more mainstream. For a while I was really wondering if he had lost his mind.

[JJN]

^ Yeah, those were some really terrible mocks. This one is someone better, at least through the top 10 or so.

Apparently Chad Ford's new mock says we aren't as high on Kanter as before. Its behind the paywall, but I read he now has us taking Vala. He also said we are trying really hard to unload Sessions, who, rumor has it, would be asking for a trade if we/when take Kyrie.

[Orenthal]

Yet Amick who is pretty well connected has Kanter as the preference. Grant has kept the tightest of lids on the whole process so who knows.

If Kanter is passed, I'll be somewhat miffed, but that will be tempered by the fact we got 1 and 4. Having Irving and a Big Man locked in is good enough for me at this point...

[OldDawg]

LOVE this mock

http://www.nbadraft.net/2011mock_draft

Kyrie, Kanter, JaJuan Johnson from Purdue, DeAndre Liggins fom UK

Me too!

Anything out there any more on the Cavs trading up to #2?

[StewieG]

Me too!

Anything out there any more on the Cavs trading up to #2?

Don't bet on it. We don't have what Minny wants. And I'm not sure even if we did, I'd want to pay the price to get Williams.

[OldDawg]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... aft_061511

Cavs still debating No. 1 pick
The Cavaliers have the first and fourth picks in the June 23 draft in Newark, N.J. Who they decide to take with the top pick could be determined by whether they decide to pursue another guard like Kentucky’s Brandon Knight or Connecticut’s Kemba Walker at No. 4 – or whether they receive an enticing trade offer, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. The Cavs also have workouts scheduled for early next week that will factor in their decision.

“The main reason is we want to do our due diligence on the other guys as well,” Scott said on why a decision hasn’t been made. “We have a few more workouts we want to get in before we really want to start evaluating on who we think is the best possible pick at No. 1 and who we think is the best at No. 4. So, by no means, has anyone in our organization who has been to our workouts said, ‘Derrick Williams is our first pick’ or ‘Kyrie Irving is our first pick.’

I get smoke screens. I hope we just don't out-think ourselves here. I'm all for doing the obvious here. Let's not get too tricky!

[OldDawg]

Getting ahead of myself here, but I can't wait for the draft.

Looking at SIs ranking of all players in the draft:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basket ... ble/1.html

1) If you have a chance to draft the best player and then the best center (by far) in the draft, you do it. Especially when we are weak there. The four spot is deep in the draft. Although not all-stars, don't most of us consider JJ and Andy 2 of our better players at the 4. The SG position is terrible in this draft. Some decent 3-man options.

2) Lighty (ranked 57) and Diebler (ranked 66) in the draft could go undrafted. I'd sign either as UFAs.

[JJN]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cy7W73ZRGg&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

I like the kid's poise. Could be that something about D-Will's attitude turns me off, even though I like his game, but I think its mostly that he is being really professional about our LBJ sentiments.

From the Yahoo article OldDawg posted:
“He has his head on right,” said [Byron] Scott, who coached the New Orleans Hornets before he was hired in Cleveland. “He reminded me so much of my initial contact with Chris Paul. Kyrie was a lot like him. The thing that stood out to me when I met him was he was a lot bigger than I thought. He’s a good-sized point guard. He’s 6-3 and a legit 6-3, not 6-feet or 6-1.

"In our general conversation, he was a very, very intelligent young man and a very mature young man. He has a lot of confidence in himself. He didn’t answer like, ‘Uh, well.’ He answered pretty matter of fact. That impressed me about him.”

[StewieG]

Not a whole lot not to like about Irving. He may or may not be great, but he won't bust. Seems like he has a level head on his shoulders.

[Gradysmanldy]

It's been mentioned ad naseum for months, but the most important thing about Kyrie is the fact that he's getting in on the ground floor with Scott; he'll learn from day one with a guy who gets the position, and has a track record with great point guards.

Flip side is that Scott gets his floor general, regardless of what level he reaches.

Ey/Peeks hit the nail, though.....next week will tell whether TMLP has the stomach to flip the assets he has available into future success or blow them this year on middling assets to get back to competitiveness in a hurry. Regardless of what you pick up in the early rounds this year, even if you landed Kyrie and Kanter, you don't have the explosive scorer in the middle, the 2-3 that can balance the offense.

I'm more excited to see the next two months play out than I have been since the TWoA left. Writes the blueprint for what the next 2-3 years could shake out to. Anxious as sheezy.

[daddywags]

From Hoopsworld (where?) so take it FWIW:

Sources close to the Cavs situation say they wanted another look at Kanter because his first workout was somewhat underwhelming and with Jonas Valanciunas said to be Cleveland's first option at #4, it seems the Cavs are trying to make a decision.

More than one league executive described Kanter as very ordinary, saying his skills are polished and that he has NBA size, but there wasn't much more too him than that. He is a very smart kid with a good work ethic so there is promise that he could work himself into a better player, but on the surface there just wasn't enough separation from the pack to warrant Kanter going in the top 3, with some questioning if he was really a top 10 player.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?sto ... z1PYRhAeCm

Take sharp objects away from OJ.

[Gradysmanldy]

That's the first negative report i've heard on Kanter, everything thus far had been pretty glowing. Of course, i've heard the last line for every player after #1.

[Orenthal]

Anyone listen to the ESPN CC they had with NBA beat writers? So many analysts are at odds with their sources. Givony at DX had Vala ahead of Kanter, Amick of SI had it flipped. Both are legit with great sources, yet those sources are opposite? Throw in retards like Bilas, bloggers who like to wax guesswork, and teams that throw out more mininformation the the previous two combined, and you have OJ at the point of insanity.

[Kingpin74]

Norris Cole at 32 to back up Kyrie.

[daddywags]

That's the first negative report i've heard on Kanter, everything thus far had been pretty glowing. Of course, i've heard the last line for every player after #1.

The DX guy, J. Givony, had a not-very-glowing report on Kanter after watching some prep school and other videos. The article includes clips from the prep school stuff, but not the others due to rights issues. Bottom line, as I read it, he's got a decent offensive game but gave pretty much zero effort on defense. Maybe that's not unusual for a prep school big, but it's not glowing.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Fin ... anter-3743

Going by what I've seen on a few videos and at the pre-draft camp (including his measurements), I'm not as high on him as others. I think he can be a good scoring/stretch type PF, but that he'll never be able to defend the paint the way an NBA C has to. Just my $0.02.

[pup]

Anyone know of a "pick value" like the NFL uses?

{ex. Trading 4 to Washington for 6 and 16}



After Kryie, is it worth playing the trade back for additional picks card? How about moving back for future first rounders?

I am going to get crazy with the taking #8 from Detroit and making that trade with Washington and ending up with 1, 6, 8 and 16. 4 of the top 16 in an shitty draft is right up Cavalier Alley!

[Orenthal]

One of those funny things Bilas (props to Twitter and e0 for making me away of this CC) said yesterday was that Kanter was a great defender. Now Im the biggest fanboi of Kanter, but great defender? Um, not so much. He lacks all kinds of lateral quickness. I like him on the court with Andy.

Andy feh offensive game, but a long defender with great quickness, pesky. He usually only has trouble against centers with some bulk. Kanter has the strength to check the few centers in the league that have that bulk, because usually they are a bit slower of foot.

NBA Today pod has Chad Ford. At one point Russillo points out that Vala gets backed down underneath the basket by Euro bigs that will never sniff the NBA. I'm very weary of his athletic ability/bulk.

[e0y2e3]

There have been rumblings about the Cavs considering trading back but I highly doubt it.

There are also more and more sources (Ford, Windy, etc) now confirming that the Cavs are offering one of Sessions, Hickson, BD + #4 for the #2 to satisfy Gilbert's hard on for D-Will II.

Which really upsets me.

We have some tradeable assets and we should be trying to move them for more picks, not to move up two spots damnit.

[e0y2e3]

That's the first negative report i've heard on Kanter, everything thus far had been pretty glowing. Of course, i've heard the last line for every player after #1.

There are plenty of negatives on Kanter.

High School film of him not caring to try at all on defense without college film to overcome.

Lack of lateral speed (He is Al Horford size without Al Horford athleticism).

A complete and utter lack of film is the biggest problem. Everyone knows he is polished on offense and more atheltic than he looks, but no intangibles are measurable and his D just hasn't really been tested ever.

[Orenthal]

Anyone know of a "pick value" like the NFL uses?

After Kryie, is it worth playing the trade back for additional picks card? How about moving back for future first rounders?

I don't know of a pick value chart, but my guess is that a trade down isn't very likely. If a value was assigned their value would be an exponential drop from 1 on down. Due to the impact of one player and more especially this year the weakness of the draft.

On the flip future picks are highly coveted and almost always protected. A team would have to be absolutely in love with a player to give value. IMO I don't see any value in trading down. Trading #4 for a player, or a trade involving players and picks, maybe.

Going forward the Cavaliers have a good mix of almost over the hill vets (ending deals flexibility), a couple young guys with potential (Hickson, Skyenga, Harris) and will have possibly 4 rookies (more likely 1 or 2 will be stashed in Europe). Odds are they are bad, and have another good pick in a better draft to try and get a wing player. That looks to be a nicely progressing rebuild with potential key pieces and still tons of flexibility.

[Orenthal]

There have been rumblings about the Cavs considering trading back but I highly doubt it.

There are also more and more sources (Ford, Windy, etc) now confirming that the Cavs are offering one of Sessions, Hickson, BD + #4 for the #2 to satisfy Gilbert's hard on for D-Will II.

Which really upsets me.

We have some tradeable assets and we should be trying to move them for more picks, not to move up two spots damnit.

AMEN! I just can't see how that move positions you better then ^ and what I posted above. Take Irving and get your big (Kanter or Vala) in 2011. Get the best possible wing in 2012. You have Hickson who hopefully continues to develop at the 4, and Andy as a 4/5 defense/rebounding/hustle guy, and still have ending deals in Jamo and BD. This totally ignores the TPE and any of our lesser prospects doing anything.

Down the road a bit more you have 2 Miami picks...

Just seems really fucking foolish to make that move on Williams.

[motherscratcher]

There have been rumblings about the Cavs considering trading back but I highly doubt it.

There are also more and more sources (Ford, Windy, etc) now confirming that the Cavs are offering one of Sessions, Hickson, BD + #4 for the #2 to satisfy Gilbert's hard on for D-Will II.

Which really upsets me.

We have some tradeable assets and we should be trying to move them for more picks, not to move up two spots damnit.

Why in the world would Minny want BD or Sessions?

Wouldn't BD and #4 for #2 be a good trade for the Cavs? Or is unloading BDs contract not that big of a deal?

[e0y2e3]

No OJ.

Stop playing half Gilbert.

EVERY SINGLE PLAYER CURRENTLY ON THE ROSTER IS AVAILABLE, IMO AND IN TRUTH. I just want to use them to aquire more youth (JJ Hickson is no longer youth, he is what he and is that is tradeable) and picks. I do not want to give up a top five pcik just to move up.

I don't care how much you like Andy either. It's cute that your wet Kanter dreams have him and Andy running together, but this team is five years out from competing. At that point Andy is not a member of the Cavs. That said rumors are that the Cavs are willing to deal him, just are asking for more than a pick (understandable, and teams will be hesitant until he gets back on the court and proves his health).

As a matter of fact the TPE needs to be used to aquire picks in this years draft or it becomes uselss. I want players or picks drawn out of it right now.

I want the Presti plan. Not the OJ or Dan Gilbert half assed rebuild job.

[e0y2e3]

There have been rumblings about the Cavs considering trading back but I highly doubt it.

There are also more and more sources (Ford, Windy, etc) now confirming that the Cavs are offering one of Sessions, Hickson, BD + #4 for the #2 to satisfy Gilbert's hard on for D-Will II.

Which really upsets me.

We have some tradeable assets and we should be trying to move them for more picks, not to move up two spots damnit.

Why in the world would Minny want BD or Sessions?

Wouldn't BD and #4 for #2 be a good trade for the Cavs? Or is unloading BDs contract not that big of a deal?

I'll make you an offer mother....

If I give you my $50 gift card to Dick's (we all know you love Dick's!!!!) you can give me the title to your house in return.

Deal?

[FUDU]

Anyone know of a "pick value" like the NFL uses?

{ex. Trading 4 to Washington for 6 and 16}



After Kryie, is it worth playing the trade back for additional picks card? How about moving back for future first rounders?

I am going to get crazy with the taking #8 from Detroit and making that trade with Washington and ending up with 1, 6, 8 and 16. 4 of the top 16 in an shitty draft is right up Cavalier Alley!

A lot less difference makers in hoops, in part b/c a lot less players in hoops. Take the best of the best when you are in position too (full well knowing it won't change things enough to put into purgatory). Next year's 8 or 10 will probably be equal to or significantly better than this year's 4 or 5, no?

Purgatory = NBA Hell.

[daddywags]

One of those funny things Bilas (props to Twitter and e0 for making me away of this CC) said yesterday was that Kanter was a great defender. Now Im the biggest fanboi of Kanter, but great defender? Um, not so much. He lacks all kinds of lateral quickness. I like him on the court with Andy.

Andy feh offensive game, but a long defender with great quickness, pesky. He usually only has trouble against centers with some bulk. Kanter has the strength to check the few centers in the league that have that bulk, because usually they are a bit slower of foot.

NBA Today pod has Chad Ford. At one point Russillo points out that Vala gets backed down underneath the basket by Euro bigs that will never sniff the NBA. I'm very weary of his athletic ability/bulk.

That's where I'm at, too. If you're going to maximize Kanter's value he needs to play PF next to a defensive-minded center. And then you just hope he gets the "weakside help defense" thing down eventually.

[e0y2e3]

You're backwards.

You can play Kanter at center just fine (see Perk). Centers don't need to be all that mobile if the PF they are playing with is a great weakside help defender (see Andy and Serge).

Kanter will never be a four in the NBA. He'll be a Horford style center (although Horford is one of the best living post defenders, Kanter also will never be that).

[daddywags]

Next year's 8 or 10 will probably be equal to or significantly better than this year's 4 or 5, no?

Eh, seems to me drafts in every sport always look better a year in advance than they do one month in advance. 2003 aside, of course.

[motherscratcher]

I'll make you an offer mother....

If I give you my $50 gift card to Dick's (we all know you love Dick's!!!!) you can give me the title to your house in return.

Deal?

Actually, it is entirely possible that I'm upside down right now so let me get back to you on that.

I guess I was under the impression that the Cavs would be better off if BD and his contract were not on the team, and if contacts were not guaranteed he would already be gone. If he is a trade asset then that's a different story. I didn't think he was with 2 (I think) years remaining.

You are right about my fondness for Dicks.

Hey wait....

[e0y2e3]

You just almost confused me about my own point, congrats you bastard.

Anyhow, just because I offered you free Dicks for your house doesn't mean that the deal makes any sense.

One sided phone calls (especially when angry douche of an owner is involved) are commonplace in sports. The reports are that we are offering, not that Kahn has even moved beyond letting Gilbert threaten his secretary when he calls.

[motherscratcher]

You just almost confused me about my own point, congrats you bastard.

Anyhow, just because I offered you free Dicks for your house doesn't mean that the deal makes any sense.

One sided phone calls (especially when angry douche of an owner is involved) are commonplace in sports. The reports are that we are offering, not that Kahn has even moved beyond letting Gilbert threaten his secretary when he calls.

You're right about that. Even Kahn isn't that stupid so I don't know why the fuck I'm even talking about it.

[FUDU]

Next year's 8 or 10 will probably be equal to or significantly better than this year's 4 or 5, no?

Eh, seems to me drafts in every sport always look better a year in advance than they do one month in advance. 2003 aside, of course.

This draft is probably that bad though.

My point being when you're the top dawg at the party and can fuck the best chick you do it when you have the chance, instead of waiting for the party next week where better chicks will be, but you might not be top dawg.

[e0y2e3]

HOT OFF THE PRESSES - PRUITI OF NBAPLAYBOOK FAME TAKES ON COMPARING D-WILL AND JJ HICKSON!!!!!!

http://bit.ly/mE008A

[dmiles]

Easy, on the big guys, don't get too far ahead of yourselves we still have Sasha Kaun waiting in the wings?

Dude is just a winner wherever he goes:
Miscellaneous
won the 2008-09 and 2009-10 Russian National Championship with CSKA Moscow...won the 2008 NCAA with University of Kansas...won the 2010 Russian National Cup with CSKA Moscow...member of the Russian National Team...played at the 2010 World Championship.

In high school at the Florida Air Academy, Kaun averaged 13.0 points, 7.0 rebounds and 2.0 blocks per game as a junior and 15.3 points and 12.6 rebounds per game as a senior. He led his team to a 23-0 record and to the Florida state championships.