Playoffs thread

[e0y2e3]

standard third Q run, happens every game.

time to see what the C's have left. Winning teams survive this run. And this run came with the bench on the floor, let's not forget. Same thing happened in the 2Q

[e0y2e3]

Two in a row the C's just run out of gas down the stretch. Rondo being dead doesn't help that.

[Orenthal]

Just too many self inflicted wounds. 3+ minutes scoreless and still takes 2 3's by James to put Miami up...

[jb]

Ballgame series and give King James props biitches

[hermanfontenot]

Reminds me of Game Four of the 1983 Finals, when Philly won its ring. Doc took over late in that game and finished off the Lake Show. Moses, of course, had softened them up in the first three games and change.

[Orenthal]

^^Not likely.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

[metalhead9x9]

Fucking bag of bones, chose this year to go full-on geriatric.

[Ziner]

Nice to see Lebron put up a solid game 5 performance in the conference semis.

[e0y2e3]

Just too many self inflicted wounds. 3+ minutes scoreless and still takes 2 3's by James to put Miami up...

Jeff Green turned the ball over while wide open off of clean passes three times in the last two games with a minute left.

[hermanfontenot]

Nice to see Lebron put up a solid game 5 performance in the conference semis.

He's pretty good when he isn't faking injuries and throwing basketball games.

[e0y2e3]

THEY AREN'T DEAD JB YOU FUCKER:

RT @WindhorstESPN: Doc said he's leaning heavily to coming back next season. "I'm a Celtic, I love our guys."

[e0y2e3]

KBerg_CBS Ken Berger
More Rivers: "I want to win here again. ... I don't think this team is done."

[Orenthal]

Just too many self inflicted wounds. 3+ minutes scoreless and still takes 2 3's by James to put Miami up...

Jeff Green turned the ball over while wide open off of clean passes three times in the last two games with a minute left.

The KG wrap behind his back. The leading lob pass to West. J O'Neal getting it knocked out of his hands many times when it looked to be easy dunk/lay-in, 2 or 3 guys with broken wrists. Glad to see they aren't dead, but gonna be an interesting attempt to add pieces to that final shot.

I'd as soon give props to brussel sprouts and wheat grass.

[e0y2e3]

Rondo healthy, a big body not named J'O Neal and that series is very different. Rondo's energy would have been huge during the last two closes. Delonte melted during the clutch (after playing very well) twice.

[pup]

Wasn't Rondo healthy for 1 & 2?

Still. nobody beating the Heat.

[Ziner]

Rondo healthy, a big body not named J'O Neal and that series is very different.

a big body like this fella?

[Orenthal]

Celtics win Game 4 and... Well its all woulda shoulda coulda...

[e0y2e3]

Again, Perk was needed after Shaq and J O'Neal died and Big Baby turned into a drunken seal. You find me the person that saw all three of those things happening. Shaq was supposed to be back a week after Perk was dealt.

[e0y2e3]

Wasn't Rondo healthy for 1 & 2?

Still. nobody beating the Heat.

You really don't think Rondo would have made a huge difference the last two games?

That's the most stubborn thing you've ever said.

[pup]

Wasn't Rondo healthy for 1 & 2?

Still. nobody beating the Heat.

You really don't think Rondo would have made a huge difference the last two games?

That's the most stubborn thing you've ever said.

Not enough of one.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Still. nobody beating the Heat.

Shouldn't you be celebrating your boy's Greatest Win Ever, Maverick?

[e0y2e3]

Wasn't Rondo healthy for 1 & 2?

Still. nobody beating the Heat.

You really don't think Rondo would have made a huge difference the last two games?

That's the most stubborn thing you've ever said.

Not enough of one.

Yep, most stubborn thing ever.

You seriously didn't see the loss of energy at the close and lack of Delonte's ability to set up letting the Heat just stiffle the C's owe in the last two minutes?

You know, the period of time they had leads going into for both games.

Absurd.

[e0y2e3]

PS: as Lead has said, the PG thing is a HUGE weakness for Miami. Biggest way to exploit them. The C's doing it two games in a row without Rondo shows how awake they became game three (when he went out they were up 10). Mario fucking Chalmers needed to be exploited. He wasn't, especially down the final stretch two games in a row.

[leadpipe]

PS: as Lead has said, the PG thing is a HUGE weakness for Miami. Biggest way to exploit them. The C's doing it two games in a row without Rondo shows how awake they became game three (when he went out they were up 10). Mario fucking Chalmers needed to be exploited. He wasn't, especially down the final stretch two games in a row.

Their biggest weakness, ILO. When Miami has been forced to constantly trap the opponents PG, it F's up the rest of their defense - and doesn't help then transitionwise either. People keep saying their inside game is an issue - pales in comparison to the PG issue. It's why they could match up with the Lakers - even with a size disadvantage.

Which brings up to the Bulls, problem is, who the hell at this point do they have to account for BESIDES Rose?

[e0y2e3]

Biggest weakness' are post D and PG, no doubt and you make a great case for why PG wins (and are right). That said what KG did in game three can happen at any time also. Although every West team has major mismatches on them and rim protectors to keep them out of the lane. Of course the Heat always have two mismatches.

As for the Bulls: Boozer might as well hand LBJ and Wade the ECF banner. Going to take 7 games of SUPERHUMAN from Rose. NBA history SUPERHUMAN

[e0y2e3]

"LeBron on beating Celtics: "As much as I loved my teammates in Cleveland, and as much as I loved home I knew (beating Boston) wasn't something I could do by myself.""

KBerg_CBS Ken Berger
LeBron: "I knew I had to go through Bosotn at some point. I went through a lot signing to be here and the way it panned out."

KBerg_CBS Ken Berger
LeBron's apology: "I apologize for the way it happened, but I knew that this opportunity was once in a lifetime."

^ JB and Pup now erect

TR: I have said all along that he should have left, but I will never root for him. Ever. Even if a year later he finally shows post game humility and apologizes. I will say that his last 10 points were more impressive than the Detroit finish.

[e0y2e3]

Also worth noting: LBJ saying beating Boston is why he left combined with the big smelly hug he and Delonte shared after the game probably tells us why he quit. Not mentally tough enough to do it alone.

[hermanfontenot]

Scary thing is that in today's NBA you can have major holes and still win it all. L.A. won back-to-back chips with a 200-year old point guard and a one-man bench.

All LBJ had to do in Cleveland was keep fighting to the last, like KG did in Minnesota. Then no one could have honestly disparaged him for leaving.

[pup]

1. Not rooting for him
2. It isn't about being mentally tough to do it alone. Who has won an NBA Title all alone? For real?

Cavaliers 2-12 sucked. Day #1 - May 2010. Not sure what the debate is. How many of those guys are currently contributing to a team right now?

[hermanfontenot]

It isn't about being mentally tough to do it alone.

It is when you lay down and quit like he did.

All he had to do was put out for two more games. That's it. KG never stopped putting out in Minnesota. Moses Malone never stopped putting out in Houston. Big O never stopped putting out in Cincinnati.

He wasn't the first superstar with a weak supporting cast and won't be the last. But we're all supposed to excuse the inexcusable from poor wittle WeBwon because he didn't have enough help.

[fundamentals]

Pup asked a solid question: What guy has had to go it alone and won a title?


For all the people out there including myself who thinks the Bulls could beat the Heat, check yourselves. We are basically hoping that Rose can do what James couldn't do the past few years, beat opponents with a series of crazy performances (which e0y2e3 accurately describes). If that hasn't worked in the past few years, how will it work now with the dynamic duo playing out of their minds?

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

I know it was just the regular season, but Chicago owned Miami. Noah and Deng aren't chopped liver. And Boozer may have his only favorable match-up of the postseason if Bosh turns out to be the bigger pussy.

I ain't saying its a given, but before we go crowning any asses:

[pup]

It isn't about being mentally tough to do it alone.

It is when you lay down and quit like he did.

All he had to do was put out for two more games. That's it. KG never stopped putting out in Minnesota. Moses Malone never stopped putting out in Houston. Big O never stopped putting out in Cincinnati.

He wasn't the first superstar with a weak supporting cast and won't be the last. But we're all supposed to excuse the inexcusable from poor wittle WeBwon because he didn't have enough help.

When have I ever asked anyone to forgive him for those games? I have not forgiven him for those games. I will never forgive him for those games.

All he had to do was put out for two more games and carry a bunch of losers to another round. Then put out for 7 more games and carry a bunch of losers to the Finals. Then all he had to do was put out for 7 more games and win an NBA title. All so he could do it again the following year.

You guys act like if he had not quit in that series, but they still lost, everyone wouldn't be just pissed at him for fleeing to Miami.

Name me the player that got it done with a supporting cast as poor as the one in Cleveland. A single team that won a title with a bunch of has beens or never weres to go along with a superstar.

And then show me how exactly that was changing over the next couple of seasons.

Fuck him for The Decision.
Fuck The Cleveland Cavalier Organization for forcing him to make that decision.

[e0y2e3]

I would be 100x less pissed about him fleeing if not for the quit/decision.

Like I said, should have left. Get it.

I still wouldn't root for him, but I'd at least be able to give him a head nod when passing in the street.

And there is other shit, like him recruiting harder in two months in Miami for FAs than he did his entire time in Cleveland.

His role in the Cavs fucked roster.

I mean he's not blameless in the composition in the team of suck that is the Cavs.

[pup]

I would be 100x less pissed about him fleeing if not for the quit/decision.

Like I said, should have left. Get it.

I still wouldn't root for him, but I'd at least be able to give him a head nod when passing in the street.

And there is other shit, like him recruiting harder in two months in Miami for FAs than he did his entire time in Cleveland.

His role in the Cavs fucked roster.

I mean he's not blameless in the composition in the team of suck that is the Cavs.

Not his job to build the roster. Now on top of carrying 11 stiffs on the court he had to carry another stiff in the front office. Dude supposed to sell popcorn too?

[e0y2e3]

That isn't the point at all.

It is his job to help recruit FAs, ask any superstar ever. Ask him in Miami.

And it isn't his job to make immediate winning roster demands in 2005. F/O should have told him to fuck off but he got exactly what he asked for every step along the way.

I blame Gilbert more than anyone, just sayin'

He got what he wanted roster wise.

[hermanfontenot]

When have I ever asked anyone to forgive him for those games? I have not forgiven him for those games. I will never forgive him for those games.

Stop it, Pup. You wouldn't even mention those games if the rest of us didn't mention them first.

With you it's always, "Yeah, I know he quit BUT WHAT WAS HE SUPPOSED TO DO???? DID YOU SEE BOSTON'S ROSTER!!!!"

[e0y2e3]

BTW: I also think the collusion since 2008 is still 100% true. If he wanted to win him and Wade could have told Bosh to fuck off, went to Chicago and won 80+ every year forever.

That's one of Simmons theories that is dead nuts on.

Guy couldn't even pick the best route to beating Boston.

Him - Noah - Wade - Rose.... OMG

[rebelwithoutaclue]

"LeBron on beating Celtics: "As much as I loved my teammates in Cleveland, and as much as I loved home I knew (beating Boston) wasn't something I could do by myself.""

KBerg_CBS Ken Berger
LeBron: "I knew I had to go through Bosotn at some point. I went through a lot signing to be here and the way it panned out."

KBerg_CBS Ken Berger
LeBron's apology: "I apologize for the way it happened, but I knew that this opportunity was once in a lifetime."

^ JB and Pup now erect

TR: I have said all along that he should have left, but I will never root for him. Ever. Even if a year later he finally shows post game humility and apologizes. I will say that his last 10 points were more impressive than the Detroit finish.

Mike and Mike had, of all people, Goldhammer on this morning for this very subject. They must have thought that he had his finger on the pulse of Cleveland, which couldn't have been more wrong. Thinks because of this apology, like anyone gives a shit a year after the fact, that this will change things. The only thing he got right is that people in Cleveland could give a shit less about the playoffs because the Indians are bum-rushing the league.

When Lebron first left, I was pissed at him. Now, he's nothing to me. Not even worth thinking about. He can win as many rings as he wants but he's already tarnished his legacy to the point that it's beyond repair. He's a second banana at this point and he will never be the GOAT that he could/should have been. That's enough for me.

[pup]

When have I ever asked anyone to forgive him for those games? I have not forgiven him for those games. I will never forgive him for those games.

Stop it, Pup. You wouldn't even mention those games if the rest of us didn't mention them first.

With you it's always, "Yeah, I know he quit BUT WHAT WAS HE SUPPOSED TO DO???? DID YOU SEE BOSTON'S ROSTER!!!!"

Dude was not winning a title in Cleveland in the foreseeable future.
Dude is winning a title in his first year out of Cleveland.

Not sure how that makes for anything other than he did the right thing for himself.

Would you hate him teaming up with Wade and Bosh if it happened in Cleveland? Would you make fun of him for not being able to "do it alone"?

The only time the questioning of him recruiting FAs came up was Trevor Ariza. Another fringe piece. Was he supposed to convince stars to accept the ML or BA to come to Cleveland, since they have been cap struck since the initial free agency debacle?

[peeker643]

While D-Wade may be the "leader", LBJ is still the best player on that team and on this planet. So he may never "lead" the team to a title, he will certainly be the best player on a championship team.

Never, ever, ever been disputed.

Team I played on won an NSA C World Series in 2002. The leader of that team was a really good player but nowhere near the best player on the field.

Christ, Trot Nixon was a flipping leader in '07 and Alvaro Espinoza a leader in '95. Albert and Lofton may have been a bit better in terms of talent and production.

Not sure why this is even a discussion point really.

Cause ur butt hurt sobbin makin shit up?

D Wade & Bron are equals; co-talents, co-leaders. Bosh is the posuer.

And if Wade is MJ I'm Geo Clooney

You really should pay attention man.

If you can't see who leads that team on every level you should actually lose your right to post.

Co-leaders my ass.

Loved LBJ weeping on the floor for that camera time after game. Always about him. Wade just wins and walks away and Wade is much, MUCH badder man than LBJ. You asked if LBJ drops F-bombs on D-West? Again, you ain't paying attention.

James is legit afraid of Redz going off his medz and actually and literally killing him.

Awesome performance down the stretch from LBJ. Again.

Don't make him any more a leader of that team than you are JB.

[FUDU]

Gotta love the revisionist history that peeks it's head out this matter every few weeks, funny stuff.

My God was the closing of this Celtics series the epitome of so much of what LeBron James is about (points that Peeker & Herm have hit on lately). They won a second round playoff series, that earned the chance to compete in the ECF, and they have to win 8 more games in order to hoist up a trophy...yet they were acting as if they just won it all in some historic fashion. Like Paul Brown said, act like you've been there before, especially um when you have. It's OK for fans to over react b/c fans tend to live in the extremes when it comes to these things, enter a starved fan base and it exponentially increases. But tears, really tears LeBron? You really want people to buy into the whole "it was such a hard long road, & to finally get over on a nemesis" you couldn't help but break down angle? Newsflash LeBail you took the blue pill. You teamed up with a 26 year old HOFr, you're Ricky Stratton dude. I'll give LeIso his credit, the last minute was impressive, but while keeping it in context it was hardly historic or heroic. Wade was in game at that point right? (<---- for Peek, Herm and JB).

EOGame 5 Detroit > EOGame 5 Boston.

As to his "apology", again 100% LeBron James. While I personally don't need an apology from the guy that attempt at one was just another picture perfect example of the self serving nature of #6. Only after a win would he muster up the "courage" to even attempt something like that, and it wasn't for anything other than making himself look and feel better.

ETA: gotta agree with JB on the Delonte thing, man the more time passes and the longer it's hanging around the more it makes you really wonder sometimes.

ETA2: I though JB laughed at the notion of LeBron leading this team up thread, now he's saying he does?

[peeker643]

Gotta love the revisionist history that peeks it's head out this matter every few weeks, funny stuff.

Didn't start out that way back 10 months ago.

JB makes John Kerry look like a stable rock.

[Kingpin74]

This debate is a joke. LeBron is a complete and utter scumbag who is a talented enough basketball player to win without any character or leadership skills. This isn't an MJ-type "I'm so competitive that I have to be an asshole to win" thing either. He joined two more very talented teammates, one of whom is a really tough SOB and a true leader, and that'll be enough to take him over the top for a title. Simple as that. The people defending him on here are like the guys who talk themselves into a bitchy girl's personality because of how hot she is.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

sportsguy33 Bill Simmons
Wade in Rd 2: 30 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg, 53% FG, maimed Rondo in Game 3, got PP thrown out of Game 1. Now that's a great series.

If Wade re-creates that statline against the Bulls and into the Finals, he damn well deserves the post-season MVP. He also just laid out whose house this is.

[FUDU]

sportsguy33 Bill Simmons
Wade in Rd 2: 30 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg, 53% FG, maimed Rondo in Game 3, got PP thrown out of Game 1. Now that's a great series.

If Wade re-creates that statline against the Bulls and into the Finals, he damn well deserves the post-season MVP. He also just laid out whose house this is.

Just curious Madre, IYO where was Wade in that final minute +? I never knew Wade did Mo Williams impersonations.

Not trying to be a dick either, just wondering what your thoughts are as to why the alpha dog Wade wasn't in control as the game closed out? Was it Lebron being LeBron (in the I'm doing it my way too bad for everyone else self serving fashion) or something else?

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Catching his breath after carrying everyone else for the previous 47?

[peeker643]

sportsguy33 Bill Simmons
Wade in Rd 2: 30 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg, 53% FG, maimed Rondo in Game 3, got PP thrown out of Game 1. Now that's a great series.

If Wade re-creates that statline against the Bulls and into the Finals, he damn well deserves the post-season MVP. He also just laid out whose house this is.

Just curious Madre, IYO where was Wade in that final minute +? I never knew Wade did Mo Williams impersonations.

Not trying to be a dick either, just wondering what your thoughts are as to why the alpha dog Wade wasn't in control as the game closed out? Was it Lebron being LeBron (in the I'm doing it my way too bad for everyone else self serving fashion) or something else?

That's how they operated that series. Ball w/Wade and offense running through him throughout. He wore down C's, got his early and then the bullish and relatively fresh LBJ closed it down against a worn down and gassed C's team. Look at Wade throughout the series at the end of the game. He was gassed as well after dominating for 45 minutes.

How is it even a question that they dominated the game physically by having Wade initiate the offense and preserve LBJ?

I'm not saying that the leadership thing isn't something LBJ will be able to handle down the road but he's never had a player like Wade to learn that aspect of the game from.

Ungodly talent does not equate to leadership absent actual leadership characteristics.

Hats off to that performance in that series though. From both of the Big 2.

And there is no way Bosh spends the length of his contract in Miami.

He's a puss regardless of what transpires in the next 4 weeks.

[Triple-S]

I still believe that, that the 2010 Cavs could have beaten Boston, and then had taken out Orlando, who wasn't as hot as they were in 09.

Beating LA? Not sure, but we could have taken a few games from them.