Playoffs thread

[DrPoove]

If for second you get out of the Cleveland-centric cacoon, objectively, the decision was pretty much a no-brainer. The rest is just immature dooshbaggery. You shed that light.

And the immature douche-baggery and quiting/lack of heart/lack of effort (whatever you want to call games 5-6 of last years Celts series) are unforgettable and unfogivable acts in some people's opinion.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

I think the injury thing was Ainge not wanting to spend $32 mil over 4 for a guy with potentially iffy knees.

Oh and I said day of the trade (it’s here if you look) that my most obvious theory behind the Perk trade was Boston planning to go after Dewey, hard.

Though this makes so much sense it hurts.

[jb]

If for second you get out of the Cleveland-centric cacoon, objectively, the decision was pretty much a no-brainer. The rest is just immature dooshbaggery. You shed that light.

And the immature douche-baggery and quiting/lack of heart/lack of effort (whatever you want to call games 5-6 of last years Celts series) are unforgettable and unfogivable acts in some people's opinion.

Jesus wants you to forgive people. My grade school nun said when you hurt Jesus it is like pounding nails thorugh his hands and fet. So why are you doing that to Jesus?

[e0y2e3]

If for second you get out of the Cleveland-centric cacoon, objectively, the decision was pretty much a no-brainer. The rest is just immature dooshbaggery. You shed that light.

And the immature douche-baggery and quiting/lack of heart/lack of effort (whatever you want to call games 5-6 of last years Celts series) are unforgettable and unfogivable acts in some people's opinion.

Glen Beck wants you to forgive people. My grade school nun said when you hurt Glen Beck it is like pounding nails thorugh his hands and fet. So why are you doing that to Glen Beck?

Fixed that for ya

[jb]

If for second you get out of the Cleveland-centric cacoon, objectively, the decision was pretty much a no-brainer. The rest is just immature dooshbaggery. You shed that light.

And the immature douche-baggery and quiting/lack of heart/lack of effort (whatever you want to call games 5-6 of last years Celts series) are unforgettable and unfogivable acts in some people's opinion.

Glen Beck wants you to forgive people. My grade school nun said when you hurt Glen Beck it is like pounding nails thorugh his hands and fet. So why are you doing that to Glen Beck?

Fixed that for ya

Cause I don't have railroad spikes?

[e0y2e3]

No, because we all know Glen Beck is the true Geezes.

[Ziner]

Jesus is was a jew, Beck is a mormon. Mormons can't be Jesus, says so in the golden tablet.

[hermanfontenot]

Oh and I said day of the trade (it’s here if you look) that my most obvious theory behind the Perk trade was Boston planning to go after Dewey, hard.

I still think I’m dead on there and find it funny that just now, months later the press is starting to put two and two together…..

If that was their plan they're really screwed. Dewey is going to LA. And if he doesn't go to LA he's going to New York. He isn't going to Boston.

Regardless of the prestige of the Celtics, Boston has never been nor ever will be a very desirable NBA FA mecca because of the weather and, well, other factors which we all know about.

I think the move was made in immediate acknowledgement of Orlando no longer being an impediment to Boston's aspirations this season.

[e0y2e3]

:doh:

TCF:
Where we still don’t pay attention to the salary cap, tradeable assets and the draw of Rondo and Pierce. KG – Ray - Pierce changed the Boston stereotype, a lot. And Rondo makes a guy like Dewey’s career potentially all time numbers wise.

And Perk was a huge part of the pack it in against LBJ and Wade philosophy the C's embraced.

Fuck they were putting Ray Ray on LBJ for long stretches last year. It was all about having the D locked down in the center so KG could be a help defender and keep both out of the lane.

[peeker643]

I agree with e0y here. I don't think the race issue (while agreeing it was earned previously by the accounts I've read) is a factor anywhere near as much as it was. But I do think the 'Hollywood' allure might be a factor in where Howard ends up.

Again, could be being over played by the national media, but clearly if Howard fancies that life then he has the option of getting a whole lot closer to it than Boston.

[jb]

Dunno jesse. Much as a dog Eye for gettin' above his raisin' , last I checked, NY wasn't subtropical or mediterranian either. And before you go with any "but NY is NY", so it is with Boston.

I don't believe in any cap crap. If a mega market and player want each other, they always find a way even if it looks impossible at first on paper.

FWIW, what not the ATL for Dewey? mega city, good tea, moveable assets and one star could stay )proly JJ) and isn't he a homeboi?

[e0y2e3]

My point is that it's a major city with a ton to do.

That is enough of a sub if you have the potential to add the rings and numbers that are needed for the Hollywood life.

Rondo + Dewey is a fucking witch of a core. I can't even fathom what Howard's numbers would look like.

[hermanfontenot]

And before you go with any "but NY is NY", so it is with Boston.

Boston isn't New York, JB. And New York probably isn't much of a player for Dewey either, come to think of it.

Seriously- can anyone name a marquee FA signed by the Celtics? Ever? Name the great Celtic and he came in via the draft and trades.

Admittedly I'm ignorant of the assets Boston has to trade for Dewey.

[jb]

And before you go with any "but NY is NY", so it is with Boston.

Boston isn't New York, JB.

As far as city swag for a pro sport? Sure it is.

(Before you reply, "infinity" )

[hermanfontenot]

Rondo + Dewey is a fucking witch of a core.

Without a perimeter scorer who can get you 30 in a make-or-break game, that isn't a championship core.

[e0y2e3]

Boston will be able to outright Sign Dewey to a max contract.

NY has nothing they can give for any player and the Paul talk is also BS unless he is going to take a Mid Level Exception that may not work.

And again, Boston has changed. The white of Larry has been replaced by the Thug of PP, Anger of KG and Insanity of Rondo.

It’s a different team with a different draw now.

And again, Rondo does more for Dewey than probably any other player in tAssociation.

Dewey on any team without a dirty shooter isn’t a sure fire championship core.

That said I like those two together probably more than the two in NY as a core that can be built around.

And no one is going to match the Heat’s core.

Then there are the Lakers and all of their young… oh wait. Shannon Brown + Dewey FTW!

[e0y2e3]

Also, FWIW: if Dewey demands out right now I agree he ends up in LA, as Bynum + a bunch of firsts is about as good as Orlando will do.

But who knows if the lock-out/timing/outcome will even allow him to demand out this year without just finishing his contract.

[e0y2e3]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/ ... ry-sanders

LBJ may be a cocksucker, but this is impressive (re: him and Rondo)

[FUDU]

And every team playing in the West can beat the Heat JB, same with the Celtics if they get it righted now.

Why should I listen to you?

You all told me how limited and incomplete the Heat was for post season.

They are like a red hot knife thru butter so far while everyone else has scuffled.

I'm with Lee in that I have no clue what your purpose is right now. But you act like a LeBron led team never cruised through a round and a couple games of playoffs before.

What's a LeBron led team got to do with The Heat?

The fact that he's been in this spot before and has yet to finish it off.

...and yes it is a LeBron led Heat at the moment.

If the Celtics lose this series you can look directly at the Perkins trade as a huge reason why, no doubt.

FTR, put me in the it would be cool to see Dirk get a ring, dude has always been worthy of pulling for, awesome talent and solid guy.

[Orenthal]

Dwight Howard is home schooled weird. Corny doesn't do the guy justice.

[peeker643]

...and yes it is a LeBron led Heat at the moment.

No.

It isn't.

It wasn't going to be when he went there and that's one of the reasons he went there. And it will never be his team as long as Wade is there.

Never. Meaning not ever.

I beg you to listen to a week's worth of LeBatard if you have ANY doubt this.

[Kingpin74]

But who knows if the lock-out/timing/outcome will even allow him to demand out this year without just finishing his contract.

Huge x-factor for Howard in my opinion. I don't know exactly how this labor issue will play out but I'm willing to venture a guess that max contracts will be less friendly and it will somehow be harder for a superstar to jump ship. A grandfathered, Bird righted(?), no Florida state tax contract might end up being enough to keep him in Orlando. And if not, it should certainly be enough to facilitate a trade sometime before the '12 deadline (whenever that ends up being) and I highly doubt the Magic would let him stay in the East to rub salt in their wounds.

The Bynum deal seems most likely at this point unless Howard would commit to an OKC/Portland type long term. I'd be surprised if he ever made it to actual free agency.

[e0y2e3]

...and yes it is a LeBron led Heat at the moment.

No.

It isn't.

It wasn't going to be when he went there and that's one of the reasons he went there. And it will never be his team as long as Wade is there.

Never. Meaning not ever.

I beg you to listen to a week's worth of LeBatard if you have ANY doubt this.

Yeah what article do I need to drop where LBJ admitted that the Heat started winning when he stated being Pippen?

Seriously?

This is reality.

I just want to him to win one title at some point as it and then wait for his HoF speech. I'm pretty fucking patient.

[e0y2e3]

But who knows if the lock-out/timing/outcome will even allow him to demand out this year without just finishing his contract.

Huge x-factor for Howard in my opinion. I don't know exactly how this labor issue will play out but I'm willing to venture a guess that max contracts will be less friendly and it will somehow be harder for a superstar to jump ship. A grandfathered, Bird righted(?), no Florida state tax contract might end up being enough to keep him in Orlando. And if not, it should certainly be enough to facilitate a trade sometime before the '12 deadline (whenever that ends up being) and I highly doubt the Magic would let him stay in the East to rub salt in their wounds.

The Bynum deal seems most likely at this point unless Howard would commit to an OKC/Portland type long term. I'd be surprised if he ever made it to actual free agency.

thanks for talking a lot and extrapolating my point

And again, look at the NFL, look at the NBA. He's down to less than 50 days to be dealt and I SWEAR TO GOD I DONT THINK IT IS LEGAL.

get with it bro.

[Kingpin74]

When I talk about trades, I mean after the lockout ends but before the end of next season. Do you really think there will be no opportunity for teams to make deals before his contract expires? I don't remember '99, is that how it happened then? And all those insane Shaq/KG/Juwan type contracts got grandfathered and were much more than the new max, right?

All I meant was that the pre/post lockout dynamics will lead him to either re-sign and take more money or force a trade, which would very likely be to a West team and eliminate the Celtics and Knicks from the picture. It already sort of happened with Melo when the Knicks chose to gut their roster over rolling the dice in free agency, even though Carmelo wanting to go there was the worst kept secret in sports. If that copied/warped your point, changed the subject, or is too obvious, I apologize. Just trying to have a discussion.

[e0y2e3]

So essentially what I have from you right now is that the that NBA is going to die in five years because of how they treat the mid markets (who own the majority of the contenders left) and that the lockout is going to close the CBA negotiations by forcing Deweys hands and grandfathering Bird Rights.

AWESOME.

You are now Neo from Matrix III

[e0y2e3]

PS: If Dewey signs an extension in Orlando, regardless of the lockout dynamics I will fly to where you are and blow your mom.

[Kingpin74]

1. Not sure where I said the NBA would die, just said it had some issues to work out and the current makeup was conducive to contracting 4-5 bottom feeders.

2. My point was that a pre-lockout max contract would represent a significant dollar difference from a post-lockout max contract. How could that not affect deadline trade discussions leading up to free agency?

3. Fine, I doubt he extends there too. But I'll bet you a case of beer he's extended and traded to the Western Conference before he ever hits the open market.

[e0y2e3]

Here is the thing: the end of the league year runs right up into the open of the tradability, IMO. I may be wrong on this but that is my point/question.

Well that and if the NBA is going to get a rollback in current contracts (which the players have already said they will take) the benefit of a post trade bird rights deal is min to nil.

[Kingpin74]

Here is the thing: the end of the league year runs right up into the open of the tradability, IMO. I may be wrong on this but that is my point/question.

Well that and if the NBA is going to get a rollback in current contracts (which the players have already said they will take) the benefit of a post trade bird rights deal is min to nil.

Fair point. If that happens, he probably drags it out and soaks in the attention. And in that case, the Celtics and Knicks would both be in play. Hell, even if trading is allowed, Otis Smith might be dense enough to brush off proposals and think that he's keeping him. All bets are off for anyone who thinks paying the corpses of Arenas and Turk nine figures over the next three seasons is a good idea. The Magic are in such unbelievable cap hell that they really wouldn't have a chance to return to championship level in the next couple years even WITH Howard.

One would think that a warm weather, no state tax team would be more desirable to an NBA star than Boston, but Celtic tradition and playing with Rondo can't be discounted. NY makes sense too but I don't think they'll have the cap room and I don't know if Dwight has the stones to/wants to handle the city like Amare has.

[Larvell Blanks]

I said this in this forum just a couple weeks ago. If any LA team makes a move for Howard it should be the Clippers. They have Kaman in the last year of his contract, Mo w/ a player option in '12-13 as their last big salarie(aside from Blake). They can target Howard and Paul and create a good core there. It won't get done because no way Sterling even thinks about spending that kind of money. He's gonna bank on Griffin to bring the fans in alone. With the Bryant years coming to a close and a lack of good young players for the Lake Show, Sterling could attempt to take over SoCal basketball.

[jb]

...and yes it is a LeBron led Heat at the moment.

No.

It isn't.

It wasn't going to be when he went there and that's one of the reasons he went there. And it will never be his team as long as Wade is there.

Never. Meaning not ever.

I beg you to listen to a week's worth of LeBatard if you have ANY doubt this.

^^^^^^^^^^

This.

1 ) The Heat aren't Bron's team.


2 ) He doesn't want them to be his team.

3 ) He doesn't have to put 12 other stiff bums on his back 48 x 7 every series.

This is all new for Bron. There is no model.

Time for people to now seperat their lips from DF's privates and put their fandom in a zip lock bag. Look at every single player on the Cavs from 03 to 10 and tell me you'd give two plug nickles for any but Boozer and Z. And STFU 'bout Side Show Bob and his 7th man HeroinBirdMan hustle being anything but what it is.

I know the challenges. I know the constraints. But most teams have those. The cavs also had some nice chips to cash in at two major opportunities. Fact is they came away with exactly jack squat to help Bron. He carried them as far as he could for seasons of more or less contention.

But he flipped out in game 5 after he allegedly found his Mom with a team mate , so screw him Means he never tried at all and it was all his fault.

[Orenthal]

Fuck old LeBron. Fuck new LeBron. Fuck the Heat. Let's be rational about sports? In Cleveland? LMAO!

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Time for people to now seperat their lips from DF's privates and put their fandom in a zip lock bag. Look at every single player on the Cavs from 03 to 10 and tell me you'd give two plug nickles for any but Boozer and Z. And STFU 'bout Side Show Bob and his 7th man HeroinBirdMan hustle being anything but what it is.

I know the challenges. I know the constraints. But most teams have those. The cavs also had some nice chips to cash in at two major opportunities. Fact is they came away with exactly jack squat to help Bron. He carried them as far as he could for seasons of more or less contention.

The uncomfortable truths:

No All-Star candidate free agent was going to come to Cleveland, Bron or no Bron. We should be shocked enough we got Larry Hughes.

Kerr was never going to deal Amare. Not for shit draft picks and expiring contracts.

The only option a mid-market like Cleveland ever had was the draft. And that was all on TBO's predecessor.

But he flipped out in game 5 after he allegedly found his Mom with a team mate , so screw him Means he never tried at all and it was all his fault.

No, he quit because he caught Delonte with Gloria and his arm was hurting and he was tired of being The Man on a team of old-timers and emotional basketcases and he had his sights set on teaming up with his boys and running the Association ever since Beijing.

But above all, he still quit. And if you don't think that counts for something, ask Chris Paul.

[e0y2e3]

JB - half the blame goes on LBJ for being a cunt and refusing to let the team build through the draft after TMLP bought the team.

The rest of the blame goes on TMLP for hiring Ferry four days before FA in '05 and never telling LBJ to fuck off.

As to you Madre, I'd bet my entire sould Chris Paul would have joined LBJ.

Every oz of me being I'd put on that.

[e0y2e3]

And if you don't think that counts for something, ask Chris Paul.

And motherfucking this.

[Kingpin74]

JB - half the blame goes on LBJ for being a cunt and refusing to let the team build through the draft after TMLP bought the team.

The rest of the blame goes on TMLP for hiring Ferry four days before FA in '05 and never telling LBJ to fuck off.

Can't discount the '04 summer under Paxson/Gund either. As mentioned before, whiffing on the 10th pick in a loaded draft (shoulda been Jameer, who was on their radar at the time) then letting Boozer screw them was just backbreaking. I think Boozer had a team option for roughly $700K in '04-'05 and was only a restricted free agent after that. He's a total scumbag but it's hard to believe that an NBA team ever opened the door for that to happen. It then led to all the panic moves from 2005-2010 (especially the '05 free agent summer, where the previous season's late collapse turned up the heat on LeBron's first bout of free agency). They never really recovered. Yeah, Gilbert let LeBron have his way with him and hired Ferry under dumb circumstances, which sunk the team in the context of the hand he was dealt. But the previous regime greased the wheels for it.

[e0y2e3]

Yep.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

Wow. Are we sure Memphis was an eight seed?

[British_Pharaoh]

Rondo's injury AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

Poor bastard

[FUDU]

Rajon Reed?

LeBron quit b/c A) he wanted nothing to do with staying (and going to the finals with the Cavs would have made that tougher to spin), B) the alleged reports of DWest (if you buy into that stuff).

But JB pay attention to the games in the last 5 weeks or so, Lebron has relinquished his attempt to be leader in spirit only (he's let Wade have the locker room and role of leader for the public viewers sake), he's made some subtle changes to his game on the court to go with the more needed flow but yet has not lost his ability to assert himself when he wants or is needed.

While the Heat probably have the 2 best/most dangerous players on the floor from here on out but it still stands as LeBron goes so do the Heat.

[Triple-S]

Fucking Rondo..

That was just beastly, throwback level shit right there. Tough. If LeBron would have had half of the heart that guy showed we'd have a few rafters in the Q. right now.

Kind of nice to not have to root against anymore. Long live Rajon.

[Madre Hill, Superstar]

That was the punch in the mouth I was waiting for Boston to give. Let's see how Miami reacts in game 4.

[peeker643]

But JB pay attention to the games in the last 5 weeks or so, Lebron has relinquished his attempt to be leader in spirit only (he's let Wade have the locker room and role of leader for the public viewers sake)

Ahh... only deep insiders like you see his the true leadership in his giving up the appearance of leadership.



The guy is not a leader. Anyone that talks about leadership and 'as I go they go' as often as he does ain't a leader. Leaders deflect praise and absorb criticism and responsibility. Forget about quitting, that's the biggest issue.

Again, the Heat has never been his team and it ain't now.

He failed at leading a team because he's way too selfish and self-absorbed to care about anything more than his personal legacy and how he's perceived.

He failed at leadership. That was a blow to LeEgo. And now he had to go elsewhere to win on someone else's team to ensure his legacy at least shows a few titles.

And God, how do the Celtics not make sure Wade is splattered across the Garden floor last night after the Rondo injury and the Allen flare up? Even if it ain't all Wade he still has to hit the floor hard.

Catch myself getting sick rooting for the Celtics but all I can root for with the Heat is a hotel fire where they're staying.

[FUDU]

Not sure where I claimed to be the insider but take from it as you will, never stopped you before.



The dude is leading by example by sacrificing his more usual needs on the floor, it has had a big impact on this team. You can take a back seat and still drive, you should know that you're married.

[peeker643]

The dude is leading by example by sacrificing his more usual needs on the floor, it has had a big impact on this team. You can take a back seat and still drive, you should know that you're married.

No he's not. He's taking the more comfortable spot in the back seat because it's easier than driving and he can't drive.

He can bark out whatever he wants to the press and to the guy driving the car. But he ain't holding the wheel Donny.

That ain't leading by example. That's called submission.

Plenty of people who will believe it's maturation and 'leadership'. It's just water finding its proper level.

Guy ain't a leader and never was. Some aren't. Those that aren't usually ain't so bent on telling people they are but LBJ was always that guy. He's no more a leader than Bosh because there are no levels.

You are or you are not.

Wade is. LBJ ain't.

[e0y2e3]

Only FUDU could try and carry this argument foreword.

[Orenthal]

How about Shaq... YEEEEEEEEEAH!

ETA
Was really hoping to see that Rondo injury slow-mo 234-235 more times.

[peeker643]

How about Shaq... YEEEEEEEEEAH!

ETA
Was really hoping to see that Rondo injury slow-mo 234-235 more times.

No doubt. Always comfortable watching the elbow bend inward like that.

Still wanna see Shaq or D West lay someone down.

Just do. Think a team like the Heat back way off if push actually comes to shove.

[FUDU]

Peeker you're misunderstanding my point, so it really isn't worth it.

If Shaq and/or West play a part in the Heat's demise it would be both ironic and funny.