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Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby neoleo » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:38 pm

peeker643 wrote:I was gonna say that OKC was the only landlocked team with title hopes (a year or so from now) and I couldn't see them helping the Heat either. But OKC needed a big guy too. And Perkins will protect Westbrook and Durant.

C's still have Shaq, Garnett and Big Baby. Still think they're bigger AND tougher than Heat. Now they're also more athletic. I like the deal from the perspective of Boston looking at getting younger and more athletic and I like Jeff Green.


Jermaine O'Neal is still on life support at the Boston Medical Center as well. They might be able to wheel him out there for a game or two in the playoffs to guard Bosh.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby neoleo » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:41 pm

Larvell Blanks wrote:Cavs trade w/ Boston

unfortunatley it's not Parker for a pick

However, MSB did some work today
PDcavsinsider #Cavs trade 2013 2nd rd pick for Boston's Semih Erden and Luke Harangody, according to league source.
2 minutes ago via web


It's a sad day in the NBA when a Euro big man and a white dude from Notre Dame are brought in to toughen up your front line.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby jb » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:14 pm

diminishingskills wrote: Mo was a nice gunner for a couple of seasons, but he's a classic "good player on a bad team"
.



nahh. Now that TWoA is gone he'd gonna blossom into the player he really can be. Any day now. Any time.

( Granted, this is supposed to be a pretty weak draft, but I'd still rather have a flyer on a young talent than see Mo Williams modeling a variety of suits while he nurses his poor wittle hangnail.

Basically, the Cavs bought a lottery pick. I'm fine with that


here's what I'm hoping for in a lockout situation.

There have to be some good seniors..... or players who flunk out.... or players who took illegal payments who will be thrown out.... or Euros. Yeah, Dunphy can find 2 .
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby fabs227 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:01 pm

I love all the moves the Cavs made so far! They got bigger (Harangody & Erden), more picks (1st round 2011) and didn’t sacrifice that much. They still have the trade exception which doesn’t expire until July. I would love to see Kyrie Irving, Jared Sullinger, or Enes Kantor in a Cavs uniform next year. The NBA is becoming a point guard driven league and the Cavs are running a point guard driven system, the key next year is potentially getting Kyrie Irving. If not, 2012 is a whole new ball game. The top name that comes to my mind and he is a combo guard Austin Rivers. That’s just a thought.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby papacass » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:31 pm

neoleo wrote:It's a sad day in the NBA when a Euro big man and a white dude from Notre Dame are brought in to toughen up your front line.


Euros can play pretty dirty, though. They were brought up on soccer and rugby. They know all about shin-kicks, thigh shots to the groin, elbows to the obliques and jersey-grabs.

After two-thirds of a season of watching Ryan Hollins shy away from contact, that's my great hope for Erden. I want a Turkish version of a Hansen Brother throwing elbows and yanking jerseys until someone like KG takes a swing at him and draws a Flagrant-2.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:39 pm

papacass wrote:
neoleo wrote:It's a sad day in the NBA when a Euro big man and a white dude from Notre Dame are brought in to toughen up your front line.


Euros can play pretty dirty, though. They were brought up on soccer and rugby. They know all about shin-kicks, thigh shots to the groin, elbows to the obliques and jersey-grabs.

After two-thirds of a season of watching Ryan Hollins shy away from contact, that's my great hope for Erden. I want a Turkish version of a Hansen Brother throwing elbows and yanking jerseys until someone like KG takes a swing at him and draws a Flagrant-2.


Well, since they are both about the same size, I don't see KG taking a swing at Turkish Delight (I'm seeing if I can get that one to stick). KG only takes swings if he's got at least a few inches on the other guy.

KG might scowl at him from a same distance with players in between to separate them if necessary, though.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby MikeCheckGW » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:38 pm

Anyone else see Kelly Dwyer bash the Cavs for this Baron Davis deal?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... nba-325863
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:48 pm

MikeCheckGW wrote:Anyone else see Kelly Dwyer bash the Cavs for this Baron Davis deal?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... nba-325863


If Kelly Dwyer thinks this deal was at all about Baron Davis then he's a fucking idiot. Gilbert knew there was a real good chance he'd be buying Baron out and that's why the deal sat as long as it did.

The Cavs had to go through that draft board guy by guy and see something in it that told them they could speed up the rebuild. The price is a big buyout for a guy who's been a cancer in far better situations.

Gilbert looked at the price and okayed the trade.

Good for him putting his money where his mouth is.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby MikeCheckGW » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:04 pm

peeker643 wrote:
MikeCheckGW wrote:Anyone else see Kelly Dwyer bash the Cavs for this Baron Davis deal?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... nba-325863


If Kelly Dwyer thinks this deal was at all about Baron Davis then he's a fucking idiot. Gilbert knew there was a real good chance he'd be buying Baron out and that's why the deal sat as long as it did.

The Cavs had to go through that draft board guy by guy and see something in it that told them they could speed up the rebuild. The price is a big buyout for an a guy whos' been a cancer in far better situations.

Gilbert looked at the price and okayed the trade.

Good for him putting his money where his mouth is.


I was relatively shocked when I first read it. I have not heard anyone say this is a bad deal. We got rid of 2 players who had no future here, for one player with no future here and a high draft pick, who hopefully has a bright future with the organization. That for about $12 million of Dan Gilbert's money. (Its not my money and the Cavs sure as hell dont need any cap space at this time). I'd do it every day.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:08 pm

MikeCheckGW wrote:
peeker643 wrote:
MikeCheckGW wrote:Anyone else see Kelly Dwyer bash the Cavs for this Baron Davis deal?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... nba-325863


If Kelly Dwyer thinks this deal was at all about Baron Davis then he's a fucking idiot. Gilbert knew there was a real good chance he'd be buying Baron out and that's why the deal sat as long as it did.

The Cavs had to go through that draft board guy by guy and see something in it that told them they could speed up the rebuild. The price is a big buyout for an a guy whos' been a cancer in far better situations.

Gilbert looked at the price and okayed the trade.

Good for him putting his money where his mouth is.


I was relatively shocked when I first read it. I have not heard anyone say this is a bad deal. We got rid of 2 players who had no future here, for one player with no future here and a high draft pick, who hopefully has a bright future with the organization. That for about $12 million of Dan Gilbert's money. (Its not my money and the Cavs sure as hell dont need any cap space at this time). I'd do it every day.


Me too Mike. Glad they did it.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby papacass » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:26 pm

Dwyer is all about how the Cavs should have bulldozed the roster as soon as LBJ said "beach." So anything he writes is going to be through the prizm of how they screwed the pooch by waiting until February.

That's why he makes it sound like they had to settle for making a deal with the devil, taking on Baron Davis to get a high pick in a crappy draft. Everyone knows they could have dealt Mo to a playoff team last July for a 20-30 pick in a crappy draft.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:08 pm

papacass wrote:Dwyer is all about how the Cavs should have bulldozed the roster as soon as LBJ said "beach." So anything he writes is going to be through the prizm of how they screwed the pooch by waiting until February.

That's why he makes it sound like they had to settle for making a deal with the devil, taking on Baron Davis to get a high pick in a crappy draft. Everyone knows they could have dealt Mo to a playoff team last July for a 20-30 pick in a crappy draft.


It's weird. You shouldn't have to understand anything beyond "The Cavs Got A Lottery Pick For Mo Effing Williams!"

How can that ever be a bad thing for the Cavs?

And exactly what does Dwyer think was available to the Cavs over the summer for guys like Mo and Jamo?
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby motherscratcher » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:11 pm

The more I read about Baron Davis, the more I'm hoping they just buy him out.

Can someone explain what would have to happen for a buyout and how it would affect the Cavs cap?

What happens if Davis just flat refuses to come to Cleveland?
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby StewieG » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:18 pm

I believe as long as the Cavs and Davis reach an agreement, a buyout can happen at any time.

As for the cap, Davis' contract will continue to count against the cap regardless of the buyout.

If he flat refuses, he can either sit at home and collect a paycheck (and likely a fine each day he doesn't report), or accept a buyout.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby diminishingskills » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:25 pm

jb wrote:nahh. Now that TWoA is gone he'd gonna blossom into the player he really can be. Any day now. Any time.


This is where I'd post the emoticon of the dude rolling on the floor laughing, if I could get those GD emoticons to work.

But while Mo wasn't a star, he did bring some skills to the table, and provided quite a few good moments for us as fans. Not to mention that he never showed anything but huge support for Cleveland. It is interesting that when LeBron leaves, the fans jump all over his ass for not being loyal ... but those same fans were willing to drive Gotti to the airport after the Cavs sent him packing. Loyalty, it seems, is one of those concepts that gets brought up only when beneficial, and gets conveniently forgotten when it isn't.

I'll send Mo off with one of my favorite moments from his time here ...

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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:30 pm

diminishingskills wrote: It is interesting that when LeBron leaves, the fans jump all over his ass for not being loyal ... but those same fans were willing to drive Gotti to the airport after the Cavs sent him packing. Loyalty, it seems, is one of those concepts that gets brought up only when beneficial, and gets conveniently forgotten when it isn't.


Good player. Not the Yin to the Yang but a good player and a good dude. I did lose some respect for him this season though and maybe unfairly as I'm neither a doctor nor privy to Mo's medical charts. But it sure did seem like a lot of nagging little injuries that kept his disinterested self on the bench.

Not saying I blame him, but saying that if at all possible he shoulda been out there in the bad times like he was in the better times.

Lastly, he at least wasn't suckling TWoA on Dec 2nd. I'll give him thanks for that.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:56 pm

The massive amount of losing has changed "homer fan's" attitude towards the guys left behind. If this team was being mediocre and fighting hard/over-achieving people would be outraged. Given the current circumstances most fans are just doing whats best for their family.

As peeks said above the nagging injury stuff made things somewhat different.

Oh, and now that Mo has left Cleveland his game will begin to blossom. :thumb up:
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:58 pm

On a buyout...

The agreed-upon buy-out amount (see question number 62) is included in the team salary instead of the salary called for in the contract. If the player had more than one season left on his contract, then the buy-out money is distributed among those seasons in proportion to the original salary. For example, say a player had three seasons remaining on his contract, with salaries of $10 million, $11 million and $12 million. The player and team agree to a buyout of $15 million. The $15 million is therefore charged to the team salary over the three seasons. Since the original contract had $33 million left to be paid, and $10 million is 30.3% of $33 million, 30.3% of the $15 million buyout, or $4.545 million, is included in the team salary in the first season following the buyout. Likewise, 33.33% of $15 million, or $5 million, is included in the team salary in the second season, and 36.36% of $15 million, or $5.455 million, is included in the team salary in the third season.

The distribution of the buy-out money is a matter of individual negotiation. Changing the number of years in which the money is paid does not change the number of years in which the team's team salary is charged. In the above example in which the player's contract is bought out with three seasons remaining, the buyout amount is always charged to the team salary over three seasons. It does not matter if the player is actually paid in a lump sum or over 20 years (a spread provision).


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q62
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:05 pm

Interesting. How about an even $20m plus cab fare to get the fuck outta town?

I dislike guys like Baron Davis who are fat and unmotivated.

You know what, screw him. Offer him $10m and tell him if he doesn't want it you'll see him on the stationary bike at Cleveland Clinic Courts every goddamn day from December through February. Then go to $12m when he cries and resolve it for $15m over two years which is less than what Mo woulda cost.

Ship it. NEEEEXXXTTT!!!




Orenthal wrote:On a buyout...

The agreed-upon buy-out amount (see question number 62) is included in the team salary instead of the salary called for in the contract. If the player had more than one season left on his contract, then the buy-out money is distributed among those seasons in proportion to the original salary. For example, say a player had three seasons remaining on his contract, with salaries of $10 million, $11 million and $12 million. The player and team agree to a buyout of $15 million. The $15 million is therefore charged to the team salary over the three seasons. Since the original contract had $33 million left to be paid, and $10 million is 30.3% of $33 million, 30.3% of the $15 million buyout, or $4.545 million, is included in the team salary in the first season following the buyout. Likewise, 33.33% of $15 million, or $5 million, is included in the team salary in the second season, and 36.36% of $15 million, or $5.455 million, is included in the team salary in the third season.

The distribution of the buy-out money is a matter of individual negotiation. Changing the number of years in which the money is paid does not change the number of years in which the team's team salary is charged. In the above example in which the player's contract is bought out with three seasons remaining, the buyout amount is always charged to the team salary over three seasons. It does not matter if the player is actually paid in a lump sum or over 20 years (a spread provision).


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q62
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby Orenthal » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:15 pm

I can't agree as usual peeks. Have you seen his beard? It's worth the contract.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:31 pm

Orenthal wrote:I can't agree as usual peeks. Have you seen his beard? It's worth the contract.


I don't like it. It's unkempt and unruly.

It's a rich, fat man's beard and it is symbolic of the man himself.

You know what? I'd fuck with him and go to $16m over two years if...IF he shaves the beard. Million dollar shave right there.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby Kingpin74 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:46 pm

Anyone else see Kelly Dwyer bash the Cavs for this Baron Davis deal?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_d ... nba-325863


I don't care how weak the draft is, does he realize how rare it is to get an UNPROTECTED pick that projects to be 8th right now??? It would be one thing if Baron had a crippling Gilbert Arenas-type contract but it expires at the exact same time as Mo's (2013). Hell, I would have traded Mo for any contract that expired in 2012, let alone for a freaking lottery pick.

I'd love to see what Dwyer expected us to do last summer with anything besides the trade exception. The only valid criticism is that the Cavs should have went harder after Al Jefferson with the exception. Jamison's value was at an all time low after Garnett made him his boyfriend and Mo had a terrible 3 year contract remaining.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby StewieG » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:07 pm

Glad to see someone with connections say we have an interest. For me (not that my opinion means anything), Irving is the clear-cut #1 pick. Not only is PG the most important position on the floor in normal circumstances, in Scott's system it has added value. Ramon Sessions is playing really well, fer crissakes. Imagine what a really good PG would look like.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:29 pm

StewieG wrote:Glad to see someone with connections say we have an interest. For me (not that my opinion means anything), Irving is the clear-cut #1 pick. Not only is PG the most important position on the floor in normal circumstances, in Scott's system it has added value. Ramon Sessions is playing really well, fer crissakes. Imagine what a really good PG would look like.



Again, why would dude come out?

A ) There's almost certainly going to be a lockout.

B ) He's a Dookie.

Or with slotting in place would they pay drafted players?
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby StewieG » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:35 pm

This is all assuming he comes out. No idea if he will or not. If he doesn't, I have no idea who's worthy of the #1 pick. Maybe Perry Jones, but he's all potential right now.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby jb » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:36 pm

StewieG wrote:This is all assuming he comes out. No idea if he will or not. If he doesn't, I have no idea who's worthy of the #1 pick. Maybe Perry Jones, but he's all potential right now.



10 - 4.

I don't think anyone with any eligibility in good academic standing would come out as I understand lock outs, but I could be all konfused.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby JJN » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:42 pm

It's funny that a lockout is what is needed to fix the Cavs (and the NBA as a whole), but a lockout really hurts our ability to draft a good player if they don't come out. Oh wait, that's not funny at all...
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby StewieG » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:43 pm

I think it depends on what the buzz is leading up to the declare date. Personally, I don't see the entire season being cancelled, as I don't think 95% of NBA players know how to not spend money. My guess is the union caves around Jan/Feb. I think it'll play out very similar to the last lockout.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:08 pm

StewieG wrote:I think it depends on what the buzz is leading up to the declare date. Personally, I don't see the entire season being cancelled, as I don't think 95% of NBA players know how to not spend money. My guess is the union caves around Jan/Feb. I think it'll play out very similar to the last lockout.


Pretty much this. Anyone who's staying another year is leaving money on the table, and any agent worth his salt (and not in LRMR's pocket) will 'advise' the rooks that.
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Re: Clippers and Cavaliers make a trade

Unread postby jb » Mon Mar 07, 2011 1:43 pm

Not sure why I read him anymore, but since a fan did his job for him I thouht this was of some interest. FWIW.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/03/terry_plutos_talkin_about_the_31.html

This email came from Steve Thomas (Chagrin Falls): "I had the surprise pleasure of sitting next to Baron Davis on his flight from L.A. to Cleveland. The red-eye flight was delayed from 11:30 p.m. to 3:30 a.m. due to weather complications in Cleveland. ... Sleeping was the order of the 'day.' When we did speak he was gracious, pleasant and he seemed positive about the move. He traveled alone, no entourage or companion, picked up his own luggage at the baggage claim and took a private limo from the airport to wherever he was bound."
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Re: Baron Davis To The Cavs In Principle

Unread postby Demeatloaf » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:25 pm

MikeCheckGW wrote:
YahooFanChicago wrote:Props to Mr Gilbert for being willing to absorb a big contract in exchange for an unprotected #1 in the upcoming draft.

The way I see it is that Mo + Moon probably slightly more valuable than Baron Davis and Davis's salary is what about 7M higher than Mo+Moon? Therefore, isn't Gilbert essentially paying $7M for an unprotected first round pick?

Hopefully the ping pong balls fall our way and Mr Grant can find a couple of gems in what is considered a weak 2011 draft.

Either way, I think Gilbert deserves some respect for shelling out the cash and walking the talk.



I think Davis is a little better than the Moon and Mo combo. I dont see him returning to his "glory days" as a Warrior, but he has been playing much better for the LAC recently. I just hope this move doesnt mean the Cavs would pass on Kyrie Irving if given the chance.


I always like reading forums months after a trade to see what people had to say about it. I find the bolded sentence incredibly ironic. Sometimes it is great to have luck on your side.
Demeatloaf
 
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