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Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

The Rebuild

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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby waborat » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:10 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:
I think it would be kind of nice to raise his jersey into the rafters next year when he would return. Right in front of Lebron. Lebron looking up knowing he will never be there.

It's unlikely he would even care, but it's possible he might have a twinge of regret about how this all went down and how great the fans here really are.



With our luck, that night, he'd probably beat Wilt's single game scoring record
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:21 pm

Donny, wing players that release the ball from 7' are physical freaks and as I said, KD just started to figure out his body this year.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby swerb » Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:46 pm

What about Ramon Sessions?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... buzz071110

Had a huge second half of the '07-'08 season, some real bright spots the next season, then signed with the Wolves in FA, who then went on to draft like 7 more PGs right after signing him. He wasted away on the bench last year.

Just 24 years old. More of a true PG than anyone on the roster. Wolves looking to unload the last 3 years of his 4 year 16mm contract. Would love to see him and Big Al be targeted as a package in talks with Minnesota. Sessions could be had for just expiring or exceptions. But they're stressing they want assets back for Jefferson.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Orenthal » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:04 pm

The exception, can that be broken into parts and used more then once? Or is it one and done no matter how you break it apart?

A combo of Sessions and Jefferson seem like a no brainer right now. Of course in a rush to grab what comes first we could miss out on things that may develop during the season.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Orenthal » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:16 pm

Just skimming the game log shows that Sessions is very adept at getting to the Free Throw Line. Also has good assist numbers for a guy that only averaged 20'ish minutes a game.

A stud low post presence with some risk (knee) and a young PG are pretty attractive options.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby swerb » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:25 pm

Orenthal wrote:Just skimming the game log shows that Sessions is very adept at getting to the Free Throw Line. Also has good assist numbers for a guy that only averaged 20'ish minutes a game.

A stud low post presence with some risk (knee) and a young PG are pretty attractive options.

He put up pretty sick stat per minute #'s with the Bucks over some extended stretches. I remember having him on my fantasy hoops team and he had some runs that were really strong statistically.

Kinda lost track of him when he went to Minny. They're never on the tube. Why he couldn't get off the bench there ... was always confusing to me.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Orenthal » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:30 pm

I would guess because of spent resources in Flynn. What would be the package we would have to send Minny to pry him out.

Exception, JJ, and maybe the latest Heat first. I know they want talent back for Jefferson, but the asking price has to lower if they want to get rid of Sessions in a pure salary dump.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:51 pm

swerb wrote:What about Ramon Sessions?

...

Just 24 years old. More of a true PG than anyone on the roster. Wolves looking to unload the last 3 years of his 4 year 16mm contract. Would love to see him and Big Al be targeted as a package in talks with Minnesota. Sessions could be had for just expiring or exceptions. But they're stressing they want assets back for Jefferson.


Sounds good to me. Here's his predraft scouting report: http://www.cbssports.com/nba/players/draft/1229863

With or without Jefferson, would be a good secondary move to any Mo-to-Atlanta deals. His contract is palatable if he's getting significant minutes, much more than the Barbosa contract being discussed when we still had James.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby dmiles » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:36 pm

Childress going to Phoenix according to Woj last tweet:

The Suns have agreed to sign-and-trade with Atlanta for Josh Childress and will give him a five-year, $34 million contract, a source tells Y
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby YahooFanChicago » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:37 pm

From Windhorst, sounds like 2 more names off the list:

PDcavsinsider: 2 players Cavs had interested in off board. AZ Republic says Josh Childress to PHX & Leandro Barbosa shipped to TOR for H. Turkoglu.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:14 am

Can't say I'm all that upset that the Cavs didn't go out and throw 5 yrs at Childress... he's an upgrade when upgrading probably isn't the best thing to do. Holding out hope that Gilbert gets shut of out this angle and starts dumping future salary commitments.

Jamo should be looking a lot more enticing to contenders as the available talent continues to dry up.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby fivekmd » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:34 am

e0y2e3 wrote:Sure, MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Wade, KG/Pierce, yeah.

You ignore getting a top flight superstar and keep on praying 2004 happens again, I'll go the proven route.

And by all accounts Barnes is more KD then Kobe or LBJ temperamentally.



I'd watch all the love being thrown at Barnes:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball ... aab,202482

sounds very LBJish to me, with the Skyping (whatever the hell that is), and turning back on hometown. Now I don't begrudge him for leaving Ames to play at Chapel Hill, but I got the impression that all the "losing" coaches found out when the rest of the world did.

And that is eerily similar to last week.
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Re: The Rebuild - Raid the Euroleague.

Unread postby Zip Watcher » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:24 am

Childress would have been a nice get. Better head on his shoulders, played a high level in Atlanta & would work nicely in Scott's system. Frankly what PHX gave up in the trade & the contract seem pretty reasonable to me. Seems like an opportunity lost.

I agree with swerb that it's unlikely Gilbert blows the thing up, so in thinking about how to get some young upside talent here with Jamison/Mo/Hickson this season, I think they should raid the Euroleague. There's a few guys who have had solid success over there that might take a flyer on big minutes in the NBA and could just be the next good find.

This season's MVP is a big PG (Milos Teodosic) who played with Childress at Olympiacos. 6-5 PG .. appears to be a FA in Europe .. and can't find anywhere that an NBA team has his rights.

I say keep the club intact for this year .. save the exception for a bit and take a flyer on some EuroLeague all-stars to plug some gaps. Seems to me to be a low risk proposition. There's bound to be some rotation contributors out there. NBA FA is pretty bare at this point.
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Re: The Rebuild - Raid the Euroleague.

Unread postby motherscratcher » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:15 pm

Zip Watcher wrote:Childress would have been a nice get. Better head on his shoulders, played a high level in Atlanta & would work nicely in Scott's system. Frankly what PHX gave up in the trade & the contract seem pretty reasonable to me. Seems like an opportunity lost.

I agree with swerb that it's unlikely Gilbert blows the thing up, so in thinking about how to get some young upside talent here with Jamison/Mo/Hickson this season, I think they should raid the Euroleague. There's a few guys who have had solid success over there that might take a flyer on big minutes in the NBA and could just be the next good find.

This season's MVP is a big PG (Milos Teodosic) who played with Childress at Olympiacos. 6-5 PG .. appears to be a FA in Europe .. and can't find anywhere that an NBA team has his rights.

I say keep the club intact for this year .. save the exception for a bit and take a flyer on some EuroLeague all-stars to plug some gaps. Seems to me to be a low risk proposition. There's bound to be some rotation contributors out there. NBA FA is pretty bare at this point.


If this was a good way to build a team and add young talent why wouldn't teams be doing this every year?

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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Sol Solis » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:25 pm

Zip Watcher wrote:Childress would have been a nice get. Better head on his shoulders, played a high level in Atlanta & would work nicely in Scott's system. Frankly what PHX gave up in the trade & the contract seem pretty reasonable to me. Seems like an opportunity lost.

I agree with swerb that it's unlikely Gilbert blows the thing up, so in thinking about how to get some young upside talent here with Jamison/Mo/Hickson this season, I think they should raid the Euroleague. There's a few guys who have had solid success over there that might take a flyer on big minutes in the NBA and could just be the next good find.

This season's MVP is a big PG (Milos Teodosic) who played with Childress at Olympiacos. 6-5 PG .. appears to be a FA in Europe .. and can't find anywhere that an NBA team has his rights.

I say keep the club intact for this year .. save the exception for a bit and take a flyer on some EuroLeague all-stars to plug some gaps. Seems to me to be a low risk proposition. There's bound to be some rotation contributors out there. NBA FA is pretty bare at this point.


There's a reason Euroleague all-stars are Euroleague all-stars. A flyer on one? Sure. Let's not get carried away about raiding the league though.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby daddywags » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:35 pm

I'm damn glad they didn't use half of our TPE on Josh Childress, much less give him $7 million per over 5 years. He's a decent player but he's not getting us anywhere except lower in the lottery or bounced in round one from the playoffs. I'd just as soon bring the Congo Kid over here and let him, Jawad and Green man the 2 spot for a year. I can live with that.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby SDM » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:48 pm

Don't think Gilbert wants that many big changes to this roster.

I think he wants to show the world how far this team can get - anything past the first round would be super gratifying for Gilbert. To show how LeBron left a "great" supporting cast for Miami, and how it wasn't as much about winning as it was playing with his bros on the beach.

I really hope I'm wrong, because this grudge Gilbert has can really hurt the franchise in the long run.
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Re: The Rebuild - Raid the Euroleague.

Unread postby Zip Watcher » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:22 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:If this was a good way to build a team and add young talent why wouldn't teams be doing this every year?

BTW, WTF is that avatar? It's fantastic.


San Antonio has done pretty well pulling & drafting guys from international ball. Heck, their 3 best players aren't US Citizens. They also park guys over there to develop them, and have good luck using these type of players as rotation guys.

I don't paint this as a "this is what we do to get to the finals in 2010-11" at all. I think it's a stop gap method to consider making a playoff push in 2010-11 to keep season tix renewals from dropping off a cliff, all the while maintaining/creating ultimate cap flexibility going forward. If indeed there is a lockout next season, the Cavs could position themselves for 2 max contracts the next summer.

And I'm talking about Euroleague MVP's and all league guys. I'm not talking about guys that play on the worst team in French Series A ball and average 3 points per game. These are "champions league" level guys .. and they're the best of that group. After seven years of having a single star to focus on, I wouldn't mind a shift in focus to a deep, versatile club that can play multiple ways with several guys that can beat you. It'd be nice to have a team where taking one guy out of the game wouldn't sink the team's hopes.

None of these guys are going to *replace* the departures .. but they'd come in at mid-level pricing and be better than some of the scrap heap UFA's. I'm just hoping they avoid the "spend it now" mantra and lock up mediocre NBA talent to Hot-Rod type deals, when there are plenty of nice pieces available next summer.

Go Zips. Go Cavs.

PS. The avatar is Jimmy Conyers (recent Zips grad) as "The King" .. created after he established himself as the king of the boards midway through his senior year last season. Early, pre-drugs King, that is.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:28 pm

Not a terrible idea, really. I don't know how the Spurs do it....it's like the Boston drafting think tank, they managed to find hits every year.

We should really hire someone to coach/run our team from the Spurs, they really have a quality front office and a well coached team. :hide:
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby aoxo1 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:49 pm

Tim Duncan isn't a US citizen?

Someone tell the Olympic committee they need to forfeit all those games.

Regardless, a non-American who plays college ball here doesn't count as an international.

Plus, Spurs pulled those guys before people realized Euro/Argentine quality. Not a secret anymore, competitive advantage gone.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby mswerb » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:25 pm

Blow it up. Get some youngsters and make it exciting again. No more of four guys standing around watching the fifth. How long did we put up with that?
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby rk » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:32 pm

Keep developing the kids we have including guys like Powe and Bassy who both looked decent last year. Try to get big men who can run and set yourself up to be a player in FA. Lebron just set the bar so low that all the FAs in the NBA are going to be able to leave their teams without any fear of being considered the lowest POS in the NBA.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Nicastro13 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:12 am

aoxo1 wrote:Tim Duncan isn't a US citizen?

Someone tell the Olympic committee they need to forfeit all those games.

Regardless, a non-American who plays college ball here doesn't count as an international.

Plus, Spurs pulled those guys before people realized Euro/Argentine quality. Not a secret anymore, competitive advantage gone.



He was born in the Virgin Islands, and did attempt to play with them in one tournament if I remember correctly.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby aoxo1 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:25 am

He played on the Olympic team that won bronze in 2004. He was forced off the 2000 team by injury.

Yes, he was born in the Virgin Islands. People born there are US citizens.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby papacass » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:45 am

aoxo1 wrote:He played on the Olympic team that won bronze in 2004. He was forced off the 2000 team by injury.

Yes, he was born in the Virgin Islands. People born there are US citizens.


Expanding on it:

There is no such offical nationality as a "Virgin Islander." The islands are a territory devided between the U.S. and U.K. If born in the U.S. Islands, you are a U.S. citizen. If born in the British Islands, you are a British Overseas Territory Citizen.

Tim Duncan was born on St. Croix in the U.S. Islands.

Interesting note about Tim, according to his Wiki page: If not for the fact that Hurricane Hugo destroyed the island's only Olympic-sized swimming pool in 1989, he might have gone on to become an Olympic swimmer. Swimming was his first love growing up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Duncan
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Orenthal » Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:08 pm

Heard Windy was on NBATV during the Summer League game. Missed the interview so went to RCF. I had to really skim for this, and it was painful...

- thinks even if we won a 'ship LBJ was gone
- doesnt think we were in top 2(chi #2)
- cavs will be going full re-build
- will be moving some high priced vets. Mentioned Mo
- we offered Z a contract out of respect


Double O's post
http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthread. ... 12&page=34
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:19 pm

Sounds like Sessions to me ...

PDcavsinsider Sources: #Cavs stepping up search for PG thru trade. Looking for young guard with quickness. Size, shooting ability no longer as important.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:23 pm

swerb wrote:Sounds like Sessions to me ...

PDcavsinsider Sources: #Cavs stepping up search for PG thru trade. Looking for young guard with quickness. Size, shooting ability no longer as important.


Thought the same thing when I saw this.

Obvious he (Scott) is less worried about a PG that can shoot and more so wants someone to push the pace. Once Mo goes it'll be Bassy and the new guy doing so.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby FUDU » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:25 pm

LBJ gone, now we want to push the pace.

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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:02 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:
swerb wrote:Sounds like Sessions to me ...

PDcavsinsider Sources: #Cavs stepping up search for PG thru trade. Looking for young guard with quickness. Size, shooting ability no longer as important.


Thought the same thing when I saw this.

Obvious he (Scott) is less worried about a PG that can shoot and more so wants someone to push the pace. Once Mo goes it'll be Bassy and the new guy doing so.

Refreshing approach AFAIC.

Call me old fashioned, but I like my point guards to distribute first, be able to guard the top of the key second, take good care of the ball third ... and if they can score ... great.

Of course I also prefer shortstops that can defend the position over the ones that can hit 20 HRs ... and that stopped being fashionable at some point as well.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:05 pm

New coach, but I get the "harumph" tone of the post. Kahn has to be the focus of even or unknown quantity at GM.

I'm 100% for Sessions over Lowry. Much cheaper, better shooter, gets to the line more, more assists..
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:08 pm

Session's range isn't to the 3pt line, but guy shot for a decent %. Eye what was that site that showed a guys shot distribution. Within X feet? Did you post that or am I just dreaming up such a database?
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:56 pm

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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby swerb » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:25 pm

Mike Conley Jr anyone?

Me likey. A lot. Ready to have a bust out year IMO. Make this happen.

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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:51 pm

aoxo1 wrote:http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Ramon%20Sessions


Yah thanks aoxo. I couldn't remember if it was eye or you that posted the site. :thumb up:
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:17 pm

Grizz have playoff aspirations and no other PG on the roster. Hard to believe Conley would be available.

Just read a blurb about how OJ Mayo is trying to develop some PG skills so he can slide over at times. And he has put up 6 assists against 16 TOs in 2 summer league games so far, so that tells you how hard up they must be for some backup minutes at the 1.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby mswerb » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:34 pm

Sign & trade Shaq to Atlanta for Marvin Williams.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby CP » Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:24 pm

Who needs all these guys when, per Windy, the Cavs have worked out Adam Morrison twice. What is there to lose? There can't be a team in the league with an easier paths to minutes at the three for the man with the porn mustache.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby JJN » Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:23 am

CP wrote:Who needs all these guys when, per Windy, the Cavs have worked out Adam Morrison twice. What is there to lose?


Dignity.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby jonne99 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:05 am

would conley or sessions be a better fit for the team in 3 years? (assuming we still have scott and have picked up a scoring forward/center by then).

I'd still like to keep mo or delonte, regardless of who we pick up to play point. Too bad we didn't make PG a priority when dickhead was here. Sessions can play great defense and can pass well per above link. We could keep mo as a shooter or keep delonte and end up 2 guards that have defensive strengths.

I'm leaning toward sessions only b/c i'm not sure how good conley's d is... i haven't seen him play in a while.

I also think we should try to re-sign shaq...i know he probably doesn't want to come back here, but it is not going to be pretty to have to watch jj/andy get molested by larger centers. Give him a 2-3 year deal, just to have some stability at the position. Guess i'd rather have shaq than marvin williams due to our new offense, which opens up the PG drive and dish down low. I'm just not that high on marv, as he looked lost every time we played them.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby papacass » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:02 pm

FUDU wrote:LBJ gone, now we want to push the pace.

OIC.


Or maybe now that LBJ is gone, we can push the pace.

Say what anyone will about putting LBJ in the right offense, but he pretty much does whatever the hell he wants. He wants to stand and dribble, he stands and dribbles. Who possesses the ability to tell him different? He holds 99.999999 percent of the general population in arrogance-ridden contempt. The time for LBJ to be reined in by anyone less than D-Wade or Pat Riley is long gone.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Sol Solis » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:00 pm

So now that Delonte has plead guilty to his charges, what's the next move? Keep him and then wave him, trade for something (anything), or keep him and play him?

To be honest I'd be fine with all three scenarios. I love Delonte. He's always been my favorite Cav since he got here, and he is probably the only Cavalier outside Twan that has any ability to create shots for himself.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby aoxo1 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:48 pm

I liked Delonte until last year's playoffs. He was shit.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:44 pm

papacass wrote:The time for LBJ to be reined in by anyone less than D-Wade or Pat Riley is long gone.


I remain unconvinced even D-Wade or Riles can rein him in at this point.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:39 pm

I am by no means an NBA trade genius, but with Orlando matching Reddick's Chicago offer doesnt that open up Chicago as a logical place to trade Gibson or if Gilbert is truly committed to blowing it up, Williams?

Seems like either would work with that team coming off the bench.

Maybe this idea stems from my dream that if we are going to blow it up we send Williams, Jamison and Varejao to other contenders to make the road harder for the Heat
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:41 pm

What would Chicago give us for Gibson?

And don't forget they already inked Korver, not like Reddick was a must have piece. And Reddick's all around game as a SG is better then Boobie's.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Ziner » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:49 pm

Well I am not sure how it works whether we are still considered over the cap or not, but wouldn't the goal be draft picks? How the salary cap works in the off-season is kind of confusing to me. I understand it much better during the year without the cap holds, new players, etc. I take it Chicago is not over the cap though right? So we dont have to match salaries?

Of course Reddick's game is better than Boobie's, I just think the Bulls can do worse than an undersized Guard that can shoot 47% from 3's off the bench.
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby RickNashEquilibrium » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:30 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:What would Chicago give us for Gibson?

And don't forget they already inked Korver, not like Reddick was a must have piece. And Reddick's all around game as a SG is better then Boobie's.


Boobie doesn't have the SG game that Korver does, but he also doesn't show off as much gay elf defense.

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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:50 pm

Moot point, they just got Brewer at a fucking steal, two years $12MM
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Re: The Rebuild

Unread postby Orenthal » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:46 pm

Seems like the perfect signing for Chicago. Get a defensive minded guy, that still has potential to grow outside of Sloan's ball bustin...

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/04/06/top- ... ee-agents/

20. RONNIE BREWER, SG

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Age: 24 | Height: 6-7
Experience: 4 years | '09-10 Team: Jazz/Grizzlies
2009-10 Stats: 8.8 pt | 1.6 stl
Status: Restricted free agent ($3.8 million qualifying offer)


The Skinny: Brewer never made a huge splash as a scorer with Utah, but he did make a name for himself as one of the top perimeter defenders in the league. That's the scouting report he'll tout in a free agent market heavy on scorers. Brewer is also near the top of the list in steal rate (percentage of opponent possessions in which Brewer gets a steal), finishing second in 2007-08 and seventh in 2008-09. He's also quite efficient from the floor with his infrequent shots, and a decent rebounder at the two (but bad for a small forward).
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