Text Size

Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

It's Izzo?

Talk Cavs hoops and other items from the NBA here.

Moderators: peeker643, swerb, pup, papacass

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby jb » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:54 am

When did every swinging dong turn into a contract diva?

Sign. Don't sign. Take the highest buck. But just stfu and do it or don't do it.

I blame Favre.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby papacass » Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:47 pm

JCoz wrote:
papacass wrote:Avery Johnson is not what I'd consider a quality coaching hire. He's Nellie's Frankenstein. He oversaw the biggest choke job in playoff history (67 wins, first-round exit) one year after arguably the biggest choke job in Finals history.


I'm not sure that Avery's story is written...

Is it really fair to label him that way, considering the Mavs had started perfecting the choke job well before he got there, and have continued their clinic on the choke since he left?

I'm not sure you have solid data points to make that assessment, Cass.

You might be right, but I guess I'll have to him outside the mavs organization first.


What other data points are there besides wins and losses if you're a supposed contender?
User avatar
papacass
 
Posts: 2259
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:35 am
Location: Fairview Park, OH
Favorite Player: D. Miles jersey
Least Favorite Player: D. Stallworth jersey

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby JCoz » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:02 pm

papacass wrote:
JCoz wrote:
papacass wrote:Avery Johnson is not what I'd consider a quality coaching hire. He's Nellie's Frankenstein. He oversaw the biggest choke job in playoff history (67 wins, first-round exit) one year after arguably the biggest choke job in Finals history.


I'm not sure that Avery's story is written...

Is it really fair to label him that way, considering the Mavs had started perfecting the choke job well before he got there, and have continued their clinic on the choke since he left?

I'm not sure you have solid data points to make that assessment, Cass.

You might be right, but I guess I'll have to him outside the mavs organization first.


What other data points are there besides wins and losses if you're a supposed contender?


I'm just saying they were choking before he got there, choking after he left, maybe it's a little more than the HC playing into that.

The lone constants? Dirk. Cuban.
User avatar
JCoz
Donnie, you're out of your element
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:57 am
Favorite Player: Competency
Least Favorite Player: Gene Smith

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Orenthal » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:07 pm

Motherscratcher wrote:Geez, has anyone ever gone from "I'm fairly excited about him" to "I just want him to go away" faster than Tom Izzo? This dude needs to shit or get off the pot.

Yesterday.

Enough already.


Fred Thompson?
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
User avatar
Orenthal
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:18 pm
Location: The Midd Heights
Favorite Player: Dan Gilbert
Least Favorite Player: Blacks, Gays, Poor

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:52 pm

WDIV out of Detroit is reporting Izzo is going to turn it down, having a presser tonight or tomorrow. Heard it from Reghi, cant wait until all of this is over so I dont have to listen to him anymore. Love how he tries pinning this on Gilbert as a failure of his. Guess Gilbert should have used his money on a brain washing machine instead of Jamison. Then Izzo would have came. Reghi is embarrassing himself.

FTR Gilbert is also a failure for not getting Phil Jackson
In the end, we're all "only for a limited time," you guys.
User avatar
Ziner
Tot-Lovin' Hippy
 
Posts: 7058
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Favorite Player: Tater Tots
Least Favorite Player: Yam Fries

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby waborat » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:04 pm

Ziner wrote:Izzo is going to turn it down


Gay...

(Hire Kerr)
User avatar
waborat
 
Posts: 4096
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:04 pm
Location: Concord
Favorite Player: Megyn Kelly
Least Favorite Player: Single digit temps

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:06 pm

waborat wrote:
Ziner wrote:Izzo is going to turn it down


Gay...

(Hire Kerr)


Gay as in happy or gay as in soccer?

:hide:

btw Windy say no presser scheduled. misinformation abound.

No Michigan State press conference has officially been called as yet. There may be a statement. Situation with Izzo still hazy
In the end, we're all "only for a limited time," you guys.
User avatar
Ziner
Tot-Lovin' Hippy
 
Posts: 7058
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Favorite Player: Tater Tots
Least Favorite Player: Yam Fries

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby waborat » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:11 pm

Ziner wrote:
waborat wrote:
Ziner wrote:Izzo is going to turn it down


Gay...

(Hire Kerr)


Gay as in happy or gay as in soccer?

:hide:

btw Windy say no presser scheduled. misinformation abound.

No Michigan State press conference has officially been called as yet. There may be a statement. Situation with Izzo still hazy


CDT garage gay...

Big Juggs on Channel 19 just said presser @ 7:30 tonight
User avatar
waborat
 
Posts: 4096
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:04 pm
Location: Concord
Favorite Player: Megyn Kelly
Least Favorite Player: Single digit temps

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Ziner » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:23 pm

I am confused at this point. To me a players meeting means he is going. From Windy

"According to a source, there's been a Michigan State players meeting called for 6:45."
In the end, we're all "only for a limited time," you guys.
User avatar
Ziner
Tot-Lovin' Hippy
 
Posts: 7058
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Favorite Player: Tater Tots
Least Favorite Player: Yam Fries

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby CP » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:50 pm

Ziner wrote:I am confused at this point. To me a players meeting means he is going. From Windy

"According to a source, there's been a Michigan State players meeting called for 6:45."


No idea how this turns out but you make a lot of sense.

Staying = have presser, then talk to players about why it took so long to decide
Going = talk to kids so they hear it from the horse's mouth, then announce it

Of course none of this has been logical so...
User avatar
CP
 
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:44 am
Location: Stow, Ohio
Favorite Player: Bernie Kosar
Least Favorite Player: Colt McCoy

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:57 pm

Orenthal wrote:
Motherscratcher wrote:Geez, has anyone ever gone from "I'm fairly excited about him" to "I just want him to go away" faster than Tom Izzo? This dude needs to shit or get off the pot.

Yesterday.

Enough already.


Fred Thompson?


Touche Mr Orental, touche.
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby CP » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:38 pm

@PDinsider

It is official, Izzo to stay at MSU. Makes perfect sense w/o LeBron commitment. Moral: Hard to leave home, even if it means doubling salary.
User avatar
CP
 
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:44 am
Location: Stow, Ohio
Favorite Player: Bernie Kosar
Least Favorite Player: Colt McCoy

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:49 pm

Hmmm..... Do we get a coach before FA?
"Our name is Legion, for we are many."
User avatar
Cerebral_DownTime
Go f#%k yourself
 
Posts: 14422
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:31 am
Location: Galloway Ohio
Favorite Player: Fenrir
Least Favorite Player: Walt Flannigan's dog

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby CP » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:52 pm

Might depend on Lakers gig. If the Zen Master stays, then it's possible that two guys (Shaw and Scott) who want that job might consider Cavs gig knowing that only one of them will get the Lakers gig when Jackson is gone. If they know that, they might best be served going after Cleveland job. I can't see anyone credible taking the Clippers job with Sterling there.
User avatar
CP
 
Posts: 1529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:44 am
Location: Stow, Ohio
Favorite Player: Bernie Kosar
Least Favorite Player: Colt McCoy

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby daddywags » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:54 pm

John Calipari. Gilbert couldn't get the guy he dreamed of having so he'll go get the guy he thinks LeBron really wants. Trainwreck. Not only will we have proven failure John Calipari as coach, we'll have to pay him $30 million over 5 years. Nicely done, Dan.
daddywags
 
Posts: 1462
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:22 pm

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:59 pm

This whole thing kinda seems like the king hell catch-22.
"Our name is Legion, for we are many."
User avatar
Cerebral_DownTime
Go f#%k yourself
 
Posts: 14422
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:31 am
Location: Galloway Ohio
Favorite Player: Fenrir
Least Favorite Player: Walt Flannigan's dog

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby metalhead9x9 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:08 pm

I hope LeBron realizes that he was the noose that killed this hire.
User avatar
metalhead9x9
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:51 pm
Favorite Player: Schaudenfraude
Least Favorite Player: Jeffrey Maier

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Commodore Perry » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:33 pm

metalhead9x9 wrote:I hope LeBron realizes that he was the noose that killed this hire.



Or maybe LeBron let Izzo know he wasn't going to stay...
User avatar
Commodore Perry
Old School American
 
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:20 pm

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby waborat » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:34 pm

CP wrote:Might depend on Lakers gig. If the Zen Master stays, then it's possible that two guys (Shaw and Scott) who want that job might consider Cavs gig knowing that only one of them will get the Lakers gig when Jackson is gone. If they know that, they might best be served going after Cleveland job. I can't see anyone credible taking the Clippers job with Sterling there.


I really believe Scott's gonna want to know what Kingie's plans are as well...

And that says the FO can't hire a coach, know who to draft (if pick is bought), sign FAs or know who to trade for because they don't know what He is doing?

The more this plays out with him not talking to anyone in the organization tells me that he's gone...

No way he resigns here for 3 more, doesn't win a damn thing and has the media all over his ass saying it was his fault because of the summer of '10 handiwork
User avatar
waborat
 
Posts: 4096
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:04 pm
Location: Concord
Favorite Player: Megyn Kelly
Least Favorite Player: Single digit temps

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby jerryroche » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:07 pm

Windy quotes Izzo: "[James' future] was one of the key factors. If LeBron would've stayed, that doesn't mean that I would have been there. It was not the only factor. Was it a big factor? Sure it was."

Am I reading too much into that statement, or does it sound like LBJ's "team" had a chat with Izzo and indicated that LBJ was a goner? "IF LEBRON WOULD'VE STAYED..."
jerryroche
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:54 pm
Location: Strongsville, Ohio
Favorite Player: Ol' No.32
Least Favorite Player: Black & gold

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby papacass » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:16 am

Mike Malone. I'm calling it now. No way Gilbert gets anyone from outside the organization to jump on board with the iceberg looming off the bow.

The only type of coach who will take the Cavs job without a commitment from LeBron is someone who views the Cavs as a whole team, and not just LBJ and a bunch of nothing. The only possible coaching candidates with that perspective would be Malone, Chris Jent and Melvin Hunt.

In retrospect, the smartest move Gilbert might have made this summer was to keep Mike Brown's assistants on the payroll.

Gilbert can tell LeBron "Because you won't commit to us, we're moving forward with a rookie GM, a rookie coach and a renewed emphasis on drafting and homegrown talent. We're getting back to the Pistons-Spurs model I wanted to follow when I bought the team five years ago. We still want you back, but if you don't like that approach, I guess you can go chase your pot of gold at the other end of the rainbow."

At this point, I think Gilbert would be well within his rights to tell LBJ exactly that.
User avatar
papacass
 
Posts: 2259
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:35 am
Location: Fairview Park, OH
Favorite Player: D. Miles jersey
Least Favorite Player: D. Stallworth jersey

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:10 am

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Hmmm..... Do we get a coach before FA?



No. Nor should we.

This whole thought process was FUBAR from jump street. The type of coach you get if Bron stays or Bron goes should be the polar freaking opposite guy.

And the irony was that Izzo was the guy if he LEFT.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby TouchEmAllTime » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:24 am

F Izzo, he's the Bobby Cox of college basketball. Ok, just trying to soften the blow a bit.
Bring the NHL to C-Town.
User avatar
TouchEmAllTime
 
Posts: 1197
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:43 pm
Location: Boardman
Favorite Player: James Haslam
Least Favorite Player: 2013 #1 Pick

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:09 pm

papacass wrote:Mike Malone. I'm calling it now. No way Gilbert gets anyone from outside the organization to jump on board with the iceberg looming off the bow.

The only type of coach who will take the Cavs job without a commitment from LeBron is someone who views the Cavs as a whole team, and not just LBJ and a bunch of nothing. The only possible coaching candidates with that perspective would be Malone, Chris Jent and Melvin Hunt.

In retrospect, the smartest move Gilbert might have made this summer was to keep Mike Brown's assistants on the payroll.

Gilbert can tell LeBron "Because you won't commit to us, we're moving forward with a rookie GM, a rookie coach and a renewed emphasis on drafting and homegrown talent. We're getting back to the Pistons-Spurs model I wanted to follow when I bought the team five years ago. We still want you back, but if you don't like that approach, I guess you can go chase your pot of gold at the other end of the rainbow."

At this point, I think Gilbert would be well within his rights to tell LBJ exactly that.


I am glad I read through to this before posting. Anyone from the outside, or anyone in the Scott/JVG tier is going to want to know what is going on with LeBron before putting ink on paper. We cannot afford to wait that long for what may be inevitable.

Sign Malone, a respected asst., and get with remaking the roster/moving forward. Gilbert can start putting his words into action, and build that team that is focused on winning and breaking through to the next level.
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
User avatar
Orenthal
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:18 pm
Location: The Midd Heights
Favorite Player: Dan Gilbert
Least Favorite Player: Blacks, Gays, Poor

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:15 pm

Orenthal wrote:
papacass wrote:Mike Malone. I'm calling it now. No way Gilbert gets anyone from outside the organization to jump on board with the iceberg looming off the bow.

The only type of coach who will take the Cavs job without a commitment from LeBron is someone who views the Cavs as a whole team, and not just LBJ and a bunch of nothing. The only possible coaching candidates with that perspective would be Malone, Chris Jent and Melvin Hunt.

In retrospect, the smartest move Gilbert might have made this summer was to keep Mike Brown's assistants on the payroll.

Gilbert can tell LeBron "Because you won't commit to us, we're moving forward with a rookie GM, a rookie coach and a renewed emphasis on drafting and homegrown talent. We're getting back to the Pistons-Spurs model I wanted to follow when I bought the team five years ago. We still want you back, but if you don't like that approach, I guess you can go chase your pot of gold at the other end of the rainbow."

At this point, I think Gilbert would be well within his rights to tell LBJ exactly that.


I am glad I read through to this before posting. Anyone from the outside, or anyone in the Scott/JVG tier is going to want to know what is going on with LeBron before putting ink on paper. We cannot afford to wait that long for what may be inevitable.

Sign Malone, a respected asst., and get with remaking the roster/moving forward. Gilbert can start putting his words into action, and build that team that is focused on winning and breaking through to the next level.


You don't think a guy Malone will be available after 23 decides the fate of the entire universe?
Sounds a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If 23 leaves do what you need to do. Until then you owe it to the franchise to try and do what can be done to keep him here. Hard feelings for LBJ or not. Yeah, it goes against the emotion and the prevailing sentiment of the moment. But it should.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:26 pm

Orenthal wrote: TMLP can start putting his words into action, and build that team that is focused on him living out his roto-world fantasies and sending plays to the sidelines during games for Adam Morrison and Bassy to execute.


Fixed it.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:32 pm

jb wrote:
Orenthal wrote: TMLP can start putting his words into action, and build that team that is focused on him living out his roto-world fantasies and sending plays to the sidelines during games for Adam Morrison and Bassy to execute.


Fixed it.


Your yin my yang...

BTW I will be doing the polar opposite of your cherish the moments LeBron reminiscence. I will be boo'ing the crap out of that local turncoat mf'er, and wondering why the hell I even gave that personality void buffoon the benefit of the doubt.

He resigns? I pull for the Cavaliers, but eff any player worship.
MMMV.
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
User avatar
Orenthal
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:18 pm
Location: The Midd Heights
Favorite Player: Dan Gilbert
Least Favorite Player: Blacks, Gays, Poor

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:37 pm

Peeker I understand all that logic. I am just so past the point of anymore 23 coddling. If he doesn't resign you have a coach in place and a plan to attract FA's and what kind of pick you would take in the draft if one is brought in via trade or bought. There are reasons teams have coaching vacancies filled before the draft. I understand the unique case here, but that gets back to my first sentence.

If he stays great.

I am getting to almost Herm levels of hate for the guy. Not quite as blind to the truth, but borderline irrational.
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
User avatar
Orenthal
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:18 pm
Location: The Midd Heights
Favorite Player: Dan Gilbert
Least Favorite Player: Blacks, Gays, Poor

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Ziner » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:44 pm

Orenthal wrote:I am getting to almost Herm levels of hate for the guy. Not quite as blind to the truth, but borderline irrational.



Tell me about it man, last night watching the Izzo presser my inner Herm started to come out. Just pisses me off how after all that the organization has done for him he cant just show a little common courtesy. That is not too much to ask regardless of what he is trying to do. Wrong as it may be this franchise catered to him, but to act like that is solely on Gilbert as the national media does is absurd. Lebron acted in such a way that people needed to cater to him. What were they supposed to do tell him to eff off and good luck finding a better situation? If they did 29 other teams could have presented him with a better situation if we just told him to eff off. I also guarantee that whatever franchise he goes to will treat him the same way because that is what LeBron demands even if it is indirectly. I am not ready to tell him to hit the road, but I can't help but feel bitter about the way he has handled himself. Its bullshit to put it bluntly. All I can think is that he really is gone, because if he isn't he would have to be an absolute MORON to act this way. He can't be that dumb, can he?
In the end, we're all "only for a limited time," you guys.
User avatar
Ziner
Tot-Lovin' Hippy
 
Posts: 7058
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Favorite Player: Tater Tots
Least Favorite Player: Yam Fries

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:48 pm

peeker643 wrote:
Orenthal wrote:
papacass wrote:Mike Malone. I'm calling it now. No way Gilbert gets anyone from outside the organization to jump on board with the iceberg looming off the bow.

The only type of coach who will take the Cavs job without a commitment from LeBron is someone who views the Cavs as a whole team, and not just LBJ and a bunch of nothing. The only possible coaching candidates with that perspective would be Malone, Chris Jent and Melvin Hunt.

In retrospect, the smartest move Gilbert might have made this summer was to keep Mike Brown's assistants on the payroll.

Gilbert can tell LeBron "Because you won't commit to us, we're moving forward with a rookie GM, a rookie coach and a renewed emphasis on drafting and homegrown talent. We're getting back to the Pistons-Spurs model I wanted to follow when I bought the team five years ago. We still want you back, but if you don't like that approach, I guess you can go chase your pot of gold at the other end of the rainbow."

At this point, I think Gilbert would be well within his rights to tell LBJ exactly that.


I am glad I read through to this before posting. Anyone from the outside, or anyone in the Scott/JVG tier is going to want to know what is going on with LeBron before putting ink on paper. We cannot afford to wait that long for what may be inevitable.

Sign Malone, a respected asst., and get with remaking the roster/moving forward. Gilbert can start putting his words into action, and build that team that is focused on winning and breaking through to the next level.


You don't think a guy Malone will be available after 23 decides the fate of the entire universe?
Sounds a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If 23 leaves do what you need to do. Until then you owe it to the franchise to try and do what can be done to keep him here. Hard feelings for LBJ or not. Yeah, it goes against the emotion and the prevailing sentiment of the moment. But it should.


Sights it. Shoots it. Good.


This whole fast track faux crisis of hiring a HC is looney toons. You simply have to know what LBJ is doing first.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:57 pm

Ziner wrote: He can't be that dumb, can he?


Z- replace 'dumb' with arrogant, egotistical and with a Montana-sized sense of entitlement that has been building since he was 13 years old and see if that changes the equation.

I don't think he's dumb. I think he's so very much those other three things that he's ignorant as to what anyone else might think or feel about it.

But the bottom line is none of us will give a shit about any of that for another 2-6 years if he re-signs here.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:10 pm

That is where I disagree Peeks. The haters are multipling at an exponential rate, and a quick shot of penicillin may slow the spread, but it won't cure the disease.

Is that too SoulDawg'ish?

Every freaking team since the dawn of time (<- almost an overstatement) has a coach in place for draft and FA. Except for well, the Clippers. Continue to cater and maybe, pray maybe, he signs. Guy doesn't want to pick the coach, he said it... You are getting Malone either way. JVG wants to stay in the booth, Phillip at home or LA, don't matter what Eyo0123 says, Scott is nothing special in my mind.
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
User avatar
Orenthal
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:18 pm
Location: The Midd Heights
Favorite Player: Dan Gilbert
Least Favorite Player: Blacks, Gays, Poor

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:15 pm

Last year Ariza, Artest, and the like pass because they don't know what LeBron is doing. This year coaches pass up the job for the same reason. Marshall, Amon, Hughes, and Z all signed to insane deals because of the previous hostage situation. How many other countless moves made to coddle.

This is how every team handles its superstar right? We could always go back to not winning championships. Oh, yeah...

ENUFF
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
User avatar
Orenthal
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:18 pm
Location: The Midd Heights
Favorite Player: Dan Gilbert
Least Favorite Player: Blacks, Gays, Poor

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby papacass » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:21 pm

peeker643 wrote:If 23 leaves do what you need to do. Until then you owe it to the franchise to try and do what can be done to keep him here. Hard feelings for LBJ or not. Yeah, it goes against the emotion and the prevailing sentiment of the moment. But it should.


It's not so much hard feelings as a matter of how much damage you're willing to do to your organization while you're waiting on a guy who (let's be honest) is probably looking at a return to the Cavs as a fallback plan. Plan C at best, maybe Plan E or F at worst.

As it is, even if LBJ stays, the Cavs are in enough of a state of disarray that I don't seem them contending for diddly squat next year. No matter the coach. This team is firmly behind Orlando and Boston even if Bron returns.

So at what point is allowing LBJ's indecision to sabotage your team become more trouble than it's worth? At what point does Gilbert say, even in private, "Screw this. This is no way to run a railroad. I didn't make my billions waiting on one dude to make up his mind."

Bron makes you extra tens of millions in revenue. But Bron is bad for business. Welcome to Bizarro World.
User avatar
papacass
 
Posts: 2259
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:35 am
Location: Fairview Park, OH
Favorite Player: D. Miles jersey
Least Favorite Player: D. Stallworth jersey

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:25 pm

Orenthal wrote:Last year Ariza, Artest, and the like pass because they don't know what LeBron is doing. This year coaches pass up the job for the same reason. Marshall, Amon, Hughes, and Z all signed to insane deals because of the previous hostage situation. How many other countless moves made to coddle? ENUFF


- Sincerely,

Daniel Ferry

PS - Consider this my resignation.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby jb » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:27 pm

papacass wrote:
peeker643 wrote:If 23 leaves do what you need to do. Until then you owe it to the franchise to try and do what can be done to keep him here. Hard feelings for LBJ or not. Yeah, it goes against the emotion and the prevailing sentiment of the moment. But it should.


It's not so much hard feelings as a matter of how much damage you're willing to do to your organization while you're waiting on a guy who (let's be honest) is probably looking at a return to the Cavs as a fallback plan. Plan C at best, maybe Plan E or F at worst.

As it is, even if LBJ stays, the Cavs are in enough of a state of disarray that I don't seem them contending for diddly squat next year. No matter the coach. This team is firmly behind Orlando and Boston even if Bron returns.

So at what point is allowing LBJ's indecision to sabotage your team become more trouble than it's worth? At what point does Gilbert say, even in private, "Screw this. This is no way to run a railroad. I didn't make my billions waiting on one dude to make up his mind."

Bron makes you extra tens of millions in revenue. But Bron is bad for business. Welcome to Bizarro World.



Tellin anyone who will listen thaat this is AAU / Nike Camp World all grown up and come of age, now running the Association. Started in the 80's with prep schools, dominated college athletics by the 90's, and took through the otts to take root running the NBA.

Hard to believe that Stern is taking this lying down.

LRMR isn't doing anything but protecting their best fiancial interests and everyone is melting down. Not their fault it was tee'd up for them to exploit. Still, the whole "I just want to win" is now beocming as big of a lie as "They'll have to tear this jersey off my back." You look at Kobe reupping and reupping and reupping. He had Phoenix 2007. He's killed coahes, and been aloof and went off about needing a better team. But at the end he's a winner. Basketball is an end in itself.

Basketball is just a means to and end for LRMR. Is what it is.
jb
 
Posts: 17730
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:08 pm
Location: Defend Youngstown
Favorite Player: Daddy Rich / Carwa$h
Least Favorite Player: Hines Ward

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:32 pm

jb wrote:
papacass wrote:
peeker643 wrote:If 23 leaves do what you need to do. Until then you owe it to the franchise to try and do what can be done to keep him here. Hard feelings for LBJ or not. Yeah, it goes against the emotion and the prevailing sentiment of the moment. But it should.


It's not so much hard feelings as a matter of how much damage you're willing to do to your organization while you're waiting on a guy who (let's be honest) is probably looking at a return to the Cavs as a fallback plan. Plan C at best, maybe Plan E or F at worst.

As it is, even if LBJ stays, the Cavs are in enough of a state of disarray that I don't seem them contending for diddly squat next year. No matter the coach. This team is firmly behind Orlando and Boston even if Bron returns.

So at what point is allowing LBJ's indecision to sabotage your team become more trouble than it's worth? At what point does Gilbert say, even in private, "Screw this. This is no way to run a railroad. I didn't make my billions waiting on one dude to make up his mind."

Bron makes you extra tens of millions in revenue. But Bron is bad for business. Welcome to Bizarro World.



Tellin anyone who will listen thaat this is AAU / Nike Camp World all grown up and come of game, now running the Association. Started in the 80's with prep schools, dominated college athletics by the 90's, and took through the otts to take root running the NBA.

Hard to believe that Stern is taking this lying down.


Is he lying down at the bank window? Cuz I think he's okay with that. And yes, I agree with where and when it started.

And I'll stand fast to my opinion that people will be happier when he signs and that this animosity borne of fear will turn into more of, "I knew he'd come back. He gets us".

You can protest and dispute, but please mark it down for posterity.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby JCoz » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:19 pm

I won't be sad of he resigns, that's for sure.

But he will always be thought of as a massive douche bag by me, and that rep is long built over time, not a last 60 days deal....

Also how he has chosen to conduct his business, to the teams detriment in MANY cases, has been duly noted and will be a part of his permanent record AFAIC.
User avatar
JCoz
Donnie, you're out of your element
 
Posts: 4158
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:57 am
Favorite Player: Competency
Least Favorite Player: Gene Smith

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:50 pm

JCoz wrote:I won't be sad of he resigns, that's for sure.

But he will always be thought of as a massive douche bag by me, and that rep is long built over time, not a last 60 days deal....

Also how he has chosen to conduct his business, to the teams detriment in MANY cases, has been duly noted and will be a part of his permanent record AFAIC.



That's kind of my point. He's always been an entitled PoS off the court. Go so far as to say when he's not on the floor or the clock is not running he's an entitled, egomaniacal PoS who's been that way since he came into the league (and I mean the Akron Catholic League) and who I have no respect for or regard for.

People are noticing it now because its convenient to do so and it's about the only defense mechanism they have to him possibly leaving.

That said, yeah, we all hope he's our entitled PoS, egomaniac when the summer ends. Because of all the entitled PoS, egomaniacs taking up 90% of all available spots on an NBA roster, he's probably the most talented one there is or has been in the last 20 years or so.

So really, I'm okay waiting to see who coaches the team. Y'all may be ready to send 23 a message about how we're prepared to move on without him by hiring a guy who you couldn't pick out of line up. I'm gonna wait. Not because I give a shit about LeBron James should he leave here tomorrow. If he does that and gets hit by a truck loaded with anchors I won't give a flying fuck.


But because I'm not into another three or four years of wandering through the desert unless you guarantee me the Playboy Mansion is waiting at the end of the journey.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:05 pm

You say convenience I say culmination. You wait, put off coaching hire, wait on signing potential free agents, turn down deals made to free up more money. Other teams are not waiting...

Ensure the barren landscape.
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
User avatar
Orenthal
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:18 pm
Location: The Midd Heights
Favorite Player: Dan Gilbert
Least Favorite Player: Blacks, Gays, Poor

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:14 pm

Orenthal wrote:You say convenience I say culmination. You wait, put off coaching hire, wait on signing potential free agents, turn down deals made to free up more money. Other teams are not waiting...

Ensure the barren landscape.


What other teams are signing free agents and making deals to free up more money today?

If he goes the landscape should be barren for a few years. Unless you can find a star willing to come here without him. And good luck with that. None of the major player dominoes are going to fall until he signs somewhere. If he signs here you see what moves you can make to pair someone up with him.

Who you want to sign while this is going on? How much room you got to do it? Who would you like to build around with that 30th pick later this month?

If he signs elsewhere barren is destiny any way and the coach ain't gonna matter. It's a superstar league. Have one and you can make things happen. Don't have one and you're effed in the ear.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:16 pm

peeker643 wrote:If he goes the landscape should be barren for a few years. Unless you can find a star willing to come here without him. And good luck with that. None of the major player dominoes are going to fall until he signs somewhere. If he signs here you see what moves you can make to pair someone up with him.

Who you want to sign while this is going on? How much room you got to do it? Who would you like to build around with that 30th pick later this month?


And if we're talking a decision after Labor Day...?
"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT
User avatar
Madre Hill, Superstar
Eternal Optimist
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:06 am
Location: Parma, OH
Favorite Player: The Playa
Least Favorite Player: The Game

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:24 pm

Madre Hill, Superstar wrote:
peeker643 wrote:If he goes the landscape should be barren for a few years. Unless you can find a star willing to come here without him. And good luck with that. None of the major player dominoes are going to fall until he signs somewhere. If he signs here you see what moves you can make to pair someone up with him.

Who you want to sign while this is going on? How much room you got to do it? Who would you like to build around with that 30th pick later this month?


And if we're talking a decision after Labor Day...?


Just don't see it making a difference Doug. While he waits, everyone else does too. Fans, coaches, players, etc... He knows that and it's part of what gives him his kicks.

You're a contender with him here. Without him you're rebuilding for the foreseeable future. And you're rebuilding with zero draft picks in 2010. What difference does it make what coach you stick in that situation? So you either hire a guy you know he'll want to play for (but whom he will not publicly endorse)and hope or you wait.

You can MF him all you want and I will too for his petulant, childish bullshit. But he holds most or all the cards. Here and pretty much everywhere else.
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Orenthal » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:11 pm

Come on. I am not East side. Teams are signing coaches now. Trades are able to be made now, and are usually made in the days leading up to the draft. The draft is inside of two weeks. The FA period begins July 1st, and consensus seemed to be that LeBron would take this thing into August. I have even heard Labor Day.

Wait all you want, Gilbert was more then willing to try and grab his guy before LeBron made a decision. Expect that to keep happening.

btw, we have no pick. One would probably be brought (via trade) or bought. Windy has already went thru our assets, and believes we still have roster flexibility. Delonte is a potential 4 million savings to us, or another team. AP is an ending deal, Powe is ending money. Again I am not East Side, I am not pulling shit outta my arse on this one.

Sure you wait or are proactive and he stays; you are still a contender. You wait he signs elsewhere while you stand pat, you sure as shiv are going to be barren as most teams will have made their moves by then. If you are proactive and he leaves and you at least continue to give people a reason to go to games, keep attendance somewhat respectable, and perhaps continue to build a winner in his absence. I don't buy for a second you have to blow it up. Dallas would be my model. If an owner continues to spend money, people stay in the seats, they feed eachother. You maintain an oppotunity window.

Blast away at my Dallas model. Only 1 out of 30 can win it all every year. I would rather be in that mix every year then HOPE. The blow it up model relies on a lot more hope, luck, and skill by the front office then the Dallas model.
"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."
User avatar
Orenthal
 
Posts: 4182
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:18 pm
Location: The Midd Heights
Favorite Player: Dan Gilbert
Least Favorite Player: Blacks, Gays, Poor

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:00 pm

O- I don't think you're East Side. Not even close. I just disagree completely with your take. If you are proactive and he leaves what do you really have? You have no LBJ. You have no Shaq. You have no Z (no biggie). You very well may have no Mo and no Delonte BECAUSE you have no draft picks and they might be the only remaining assets you can deal to get one. Jamison likely goes (and I'd say he goes at the deadline in February as opposed to before/during the draft). If Gilbert buys a pick in the 18-24 range as was discussed previously what kind of impact player does that get you in a five or six-deep draft? What kind of pick does a guy who's wilted in the playoffs and a schizophrenic, gun-toting combo guard facing possible jail-time/suspension net you(and I firmly believe there's an inverse relationship between street cred and trade value here ;-) ;) :wink: )? You think Moon and Parker along with JJ and Telfair keep attendance respectable? You think those guys even stay? Do you have any hope for Christian Eyenga?

I don't.

I see it as a 'Contend with LBJ while holding your nose because of the power he wields' or wait five years til the re-planted grass grows and a new first-time GM and coach figure shit out. And there's no guarantee the new GM and coach ever figure it out as the washout rate for those guys is high as well.

I don't want to wait that long or take that chance.

I guess I'd take the rebuild over half-assing it and trying to remain competitive but it makes me ill to think about. I will say this whole conversation has inspired a column though. I appreciate that and the fact you ain't East Side. ;-) ;) :wink:
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby davemanddd » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:25 pm

Ziner wrote:Just pisses me off how after all that the organization has done for him he cant just show a little common courtesy. That is not too much to ask regardless of what he is trying to do. Wrong as it may be this franchise catered to him, but to act like that is solely on Gilbert as the national media does is absurd. Lebron acted in such a way that people needed to cater to him. What were they supposed to do tell him to eff off and good luck finding a better situation? If they did 29 other teams could have presented him with a better situation if we just told him to eff off. I also guarantee that whatever franchise he goes to will treat him the same way because that is what LeBron demands even if it is indirectly. I am not ready to tell him to hit the road, but I can't help but feel bitter about the way he has handled himself. Its bullshit to put it bluntly. All I can think is that he really is gone, because if he isn't he would have to be an absolute MORON to act this way. He can't be that dumb, can he?


what's funny is that miami has treated dwyane wade the exact opposite than how the cavs have coddled lebron as the heat have not gone out of their way one iota to do anything to persuade wade to stay there and have actually done a lot of things that probably pissed wade off and yet that's exactly where he's still going to stay simply because of their market.

talk about a double-standard.

that being said, lebron has to know, given he knows all too well cleveland's sad-sack sports history, he will almost certainly become persona non-grata here pretty much on the same level as art modell, jim thome and albert belle who all chased the almighty dollar while thumbing their noses at all the cleveland fans who unabashedly supported them.

lebron promised to light cleveland up like las vegas. if he leaves, even a motel 6 will have more lights on than cleveland will at that point.
dave . . .
davemanddd
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:07 pm
Location: mansfield, ohio
Favorite Player: joe thomas
Least Favorite Player: lebron james

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby motherscratcher » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:40 pm

davemanddd wrote:
Ziner wrote:Just pisses me off how after all that the organization has done for him he cant just show a little common courtesy. That is not too much to ask regardless of what he is trying to do. Wrong as it may be this franchise catered to him, but to act like that is solely on Gilbert as the national media does is absurd. Lebron acted in such a way that people needed to cater to him. What were they supposed to do tell him to eff off and good luck finding a better situation? If they did 29 other teams could have presented him with a better situation if we just told him to eff off. I also guarantee that whatever franchise he goes to will treat him the same way because that is what LeBron demands even if it is indirectly. I am not ready to tell him to hit the road, but I can't help but feel bitter about the way he has handled himself. Its bullshit to put it bluntly. All I can think is that he really is gone, because if he isn't he would have to be an absolute MORON to act this way. He can't be that dumb, can he?


what's funny is that miami has treated dwyane wade the exact opposite than how the cavs have coddled lebron as the heat have not gone out of their way one iota to do anything to persuade wade to stay there and have actually done a lot of things that probably pissed wade off and yet that's exactly where he's still going to stay simply because of their market.

talk about a double-standard.

that being said, lebron has to know, given he knows all too well cleveland's sad-sack sports history, he will almost certainly become persona non-grata here pretty much on the same level as art modell, jim thome and albert belle who all chased the almighty dollar while thumbing their noses at all the cleveland fans who unabashedly supported them.

lebron promised to light cleveland up like las vegas. if he leaves, even a motel 6 will have more lights on than cleveland will at that point.


I agree with you Daveman except for one thing. Thome and Belle aren't even close to the level that Modell is at. And Lebron would be on Modell's level.

Thome and Belle at least left for more money than the Indians could (or would) pay them. Lebron couldn't use that as an excuse. Lebron leaving would essentially be him saying "you can't pay me enough to stay in Cleveland."
According to my sources CDT farts in the tub and bites the bubbles.
User avatar
motherscratcher
Little Larry Sellers
 
Posts: 7731
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: La La Land
Favorite Player: Ernie Camacho
Least Favorite Player: Jose Mesa

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Cerebral_DownTime » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:14 pm

What's going on in here? Don't be upset. We're all gonna make it thru this. Now where the hell did my TV remote go?
"Our name is Legion, for we are many."
User avatar
Cerebral_DownTime
Go f#%k yourself
 
Posts: 14422
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:31 am
Location: Galloway Ohio
Favorite Player: Fenrir
Least Favorite Player: Walt Flannigan's dog

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby Madre Hill, Superstar » Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:49 am

peeker643 wrote:Just don't see it making a difference Doug. While he waits, everyone else does too.


Chicago hired Thibodeau.

You can sit and spin and wait for a guy who's likely to announce he's headed elsewhere come Labor/Arbor/Columbus Day, which leaves you even more screwed than anyone thought possible if he didn't re-sign. Or you can start working on the future now regardless of what the King commands. Yeah, he might not approve of Brendan Malone over someone flashier like Byron "63-121" Scott, but, hell, if he's that hung up on coaching then he'll head right over to D'Antoni and the Knicks.

You just can't let him hold the franchise completely hostage.
"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT
User avatar
Madre Hill, Superstar
Eternal Optimist
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:06 am
Location: Parma, OH
Favorite Player: The Playa
Least Favorite Player: The Game

Re: It's Izzo?

Unread postby peeker643 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:25 am

Madre Hill, Superstar
Chicago hired Thibodeau.


Yee Haaa!!!

A guy who never played, worked his way up the coaching ladder and was credited as being a defensive coach on a championship team with a couple Hall of Famers?

The 2010 version of Mike Brown? Sweet!! LeBron's probably drooling over that resume.

Shit...wait...



You can sit and spin and wait for a guy who's likely to announce he's headed elsewhere come Labor/Arbor/Columbus Day, which leaves you even more screwed than anyone thought possible if he didn't re-sign.


How are you more screwed? If he leaves you're fucked. You can't get un-fucked by hiring someone today and then having him leave. You're only not screwed if you hire someone now he wants to play for. And then maybe he stays and maybe you can somehow get a second stud here somehow.

Or you can start working on the future now regardless of what the King commands. Yeah, he might not approve of Brendan Malone over someone flashier like Byron "63-121" Scott, but, hell, if he's that hung up on coaching then he'll head right over to D'Antoni and the Knicks.


Dude, BRENDAN Malone was 29-71 in his illustrious career. Byron Scott won more playoff games than Brendan Malone won regular season games. He's also won 352 regular season games at a .500 clip. However, the suggestion was made to hire Michael Malone. That's Brendan's son. And as far as I can figure Michael has won 29 less games than his old man.

Don't be lazy man. ;-) ;) :wink:

And right- You wouldn't want him to start holding the franchise hostage at this point. Not when it might scare off Brendan Malone's kid. Hard to find guys like that.

Get Malone and buy the 20th pick. Get Eyenga stateside pronto. Then find another superstar to come here. Let's do it that way today. Won't be time for that if James leaves after Labor Day.

::doh::
"Great minds think alike. The opposite is also true."

"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


I'm on Twitter at http://twitter.com/peeker643
User avatar
peeker643
Duly Noted
 
Posts: 22625
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:33 pm
Favorite Player: Smokey Rowe
Least Favorite Player: Dingle Stetson

PreviousNext

Return to Cleveland Cavaliers & The NBA

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Who is online

In total there are 4 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 4 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 181 on Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests