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rack benz

Unread postby davemanddd » Wed May 05, 2010 10:21 am

hell yes!!! benz nailed it big time with his "city in ruins" article http://theclevelandfan.com/index.php?op ... e&Itemid=5.

when it all gets down to brass tacks and marbles, it's really all just a game. even if the cavs win or lose, the sun will still come out tomorrow and we will all just go on with our lives.

so why do we still have our panties all in a bunch???

lord knows i've had my fair share of death and family tragedy. my mom died of cancer when i was only 8. my sister died of a pulmonary embolism when she was only 36 and i had a niece die at just 20 years of age after a 2-year battle with a brain tumor. my brother still struggles with her death today and she died in 1998.

to top it all off, i've been having to raise my own 2-year old granddaughter because my daughter decided she doesn't want to be a mom anymore and would rather be a drunk, party-going, out of work lesbian living off the system for the rest of her life.

and yet i am still conflicted over a fricken basketball team??? gawd help me!!!

still, benz, thanx for giving us some perspective!!!
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed May 05, 2010 12:23 pm

Fuck perspective.

Fuck being a C-town sports fan.

This is it, an epic choke job and LBJ is gone, the Browns kick-off another season where the Mendoza line will be 5 and 11 ("6-11 is a marked improvment posts will be rolling out!"), the Indians continue their perceptual suck as their Poster Boy continues to morph into a newt, etc.

This stuff isn't going to affect me on a truly deep level and I don't typically get all that angry about game outcomes, but this series and this playoffs is hands down the most important for this Cleveland Sports ever.

It's nothing to ruin your life over, but if there ever was a year to care a little more, THIS IS IT.

We all have our stories dave and I don't think any of us are going to pretend for a second that this team is the most important thing in our lives, but if I want to be salty for three days about it I damn well will be.

It's the fucking playoffs and it's potentially the end of truly caring about C-town sports for me.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby DrPoove » Wed May 05, 2010 12:38 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:It's nothing to ruin your life over, but if there ever was a year to care a little more, THIS IS IT.

Indeed. Browns and Tribe are light years away. With the uncertainty of the "Summer of LeBron" this is gonna be the best shot in a looooooong time if LBJ leaves.

While everything that Gary points out is much, much, much, much, much more important than C-Town sports, it could be a little while before a title is this attainable. So I understand while people are a little more "amped" than usual.

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Re: rack benz

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed May 05, 2010 1:05 pm

Sports are the great escape from life's troubles indeed, in the same way a movie can be or the arts in some respect.

Auctually a great movie to view on this is "Big Fan", it really helps put things in perspective and is a bit of a "scared straight" for the sport fan.

I've been through a lot worse things in my life than a bunch of millionaires not showing up in a game, and again that's where you have to keep your viewpoint at sometimes.

It is still frustrating though. The Browns are still years away from even coming close to sniffing the playoffs, and the Tribe will never, ever, ever win a world series under the current system, and with dolan as an owner, sorry, just a fact of life at the moment.

I don't know, still to me, a significant part of what used to make up the sports fan population in this cityb somewhat died off in 1995 following the Move.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby JCoz » Wed May 05, 2010 1:35 pm

That's a great article by benz. Two solid ones in a row after about a few months worth of mildly annoying Browns takes.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed May 05, 2010 1:50 pm

All due respect to Benz, eff perspective.

This is THE year. We finally have the best team in the entire league, something we've had, at most, on two other occasions over the course of this drought. Best player, best team, HCA. If it doesn't happen this year it never will.

I'm all in with this team. I won't allow myself the back-out of perspective. YMMV.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby JCoz » Wed May 05, 2010 2:01 pm

I'm having a hard time understand a few of these responses.

herm, what exactly are you taking Benz as saying in that article?

I am also all in with this team, but some of this stuff for me just can't hurt as much as it used to. Hell even just back 4 years the Bucks getting torched by UF nearly had me in angry drunken tears.

On the back of so many other crushing blows during my "fandom", you just can't crush me like that anymore.

I was onto the next game before game 2 even ended. Game was over, all that mattered was how they show up in game three.

At least some of you here are older than me..... and I am about as big a nut about MY teams as anyone here, so I guess I have a hard time understanding how people that went through the Browns/Elway and Cavs/MJ (where I didn't at least not at an age where it was as impactful) are not fairly hardened sports fans at this point.

It's like some are suffering the same 1st heartbreak pain every time (and now sometimes before it even happens).
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed May 05, 2010 2:11 pm

herm, what exactly are you taking Benz as saying in that article?


Hmm. 'Your teams will never win anything, but be thankful- at least you didn't die in a car wreck or take an M-1 round from a National Guardsman'?

I don't really see the point in that sort of thinking. I mean, yeah, obviously, things could always be worse. So what?

And no, it doesn't hurt as much as it used to. Certainly not as much as it did in '86 or '87 or '97. What I'm talking about is acceptance that if the Cavaliers don't win it this year it's never going to happen, ever.

And if I accept that, there's no sense in even getting remotely passionate about this stuff.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Wed May 05, 2010 2:14 pm

Can't help but agree. If the team was just meh this year, or struggled against elite competition....its one thing.

After the adjustment period, this team DOMINATED. Destroyed the Lakers, routed the Celtics, Pwn'd the magic.

Suddenly, they stop caring and turn into a pumpkin in the playoffs? Stop rebounding, hustling for loose balls, etc? And fuck lebron's elbow, I saw what he did against the bulls in Game 3. He said it's been bothering him since well before that.

If Lebron wasn't flirting with other cities, I wouldn't care as much. I would know that there are ENDLESS championships on the horizon. But he has placed this onus on us as fans to respect what happens THIS YEAR and put all the eggs in the basket. So if we get all doom and gloom, he's fed the beast.

Cavs need to play like they are capable of playing, everything else is a collosal meltdown and epic choke job.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby peeker643 » Wed May 05, 2010 2:15 pm

JCoz wrote:I'm having a hard time understand a few of these responses.

herm, what exactly are you taking Benz as saying in that article?

I am also all in with this team, but some of this stuff for me just can't hurt as much as it used to. Hell even just back 4 years the Bucks getting torched by UF nearly had me in angry drunken tears.

On the back of so many other crushing blows during my "fandom", you just can't crush me like that anymore.

I was onto the next game before game 2 even ended. Game gone, all that mattered was how they show up in game three.

At least some of you here are older than me, and I am about as big a nut about MY teams as anyone here, so I guess I have a hard time understanding how people that went through the Browns/Elway and Cavs/MJ are not fairly hardened sports fans at this point.

It's like some are suffering the same 1st heartbreak pain every time (and now sometimes before it even happens).


I'm a lot more detached about all of it after the Elway/Mesa/Orlando/Etc disappointments. Not so much personally. The shit still hurts horribly when it happens and I go into 'media blackout' mode. I'll also give it a day or two after a tough loss before I post. Just seems to ruffle fewer feathers that way.

But with a series it's just different for me. You take every possession or even every game as a stand-alone situation and you're in big trouble. I thought this series would go six games and the Cavs would win it. That's based on the two teams and it also takes into consideration the fact the Cavs have done this shit all season. Take a quarter or half off against a good team and you're going to pay a price. But it doesn't affect my thoughts on the series as a whole.

If LBJ is affected by the elbow that's clearly a game/season-changer. But I don't think there's any possible way to know that until you see how he and the team responds on Friday to getting their asses handed to them Monday night. They've responded to rough losses all season with good basketball. If they do that again Friday (or even Sunday) and this series is 2-2 coming back here then what's the issue?

It al just reminds me of this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15910&start=100

They start 0-2 and all hell breaks loose. They lose a playoff game at home against a hated but talented team and all hell breaks loose.

Believe me, I fully understand what this season means. As e0y points out it may mean everything. But even with that it's not encapsulated by one horrible game in the EC Semis.

FWiW I didn't see Gary's article as an attempt to diffuse a potentially bad situation. I saw it as him looking at two separate events and making an observation about how the reactions seem out of whack. We all know in the grand scheme that sports are trivial. Important to us, yes, but still down the list inregard to priorities. I thought it was well-written and provocative. From a journalism standpoint you can't hope for anything more.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby JCoz » Wed May 05, 2010 2:15 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:
herm, what exactly are you taking Benz as saying in that article?


Hmm. 'Your teams will never win anything, but be thankful- at least you didn't die in a car wreck or take an M-1 round from a National Guardsman'?

I don't really see the point in that sort of thinking. I mean, yeah, obviously, things could always be worse. So what?

And no, it doesn't hurt as much as it used to. Certainly not as much as it did in '86 or '87 or '97. What I'm talking about is acceptance that if the Cavaliers don't win it this year it's never going to happen, ever.

And if I accept that, there's no sense in even getting remotely passionate about this stuff.


Maybe I need to read that article again. I seem to have gotten a different impression, but given some of the articles I've read from Betz (see the article regarding the impending holdout of Haden) its not out of the question that you interpreted correctly.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby JCoz » Wed May 05, 2010 2:23 pm

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Re: rack benz

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed May 05, 2010 2:26 pm

Not for nothing but more and more I think that when it happens- if it happens- it'll be a team and a time we don't expect. Like, the Browns will sneak into the Playoffs at 9-7 (or 8-7-1) and get hot. Sort of like what almost happened in '97.

Not sure why I think that, really.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby JCoz » Wed May 05, 2010 2:31 pm

peeker643 wrote:
JCoz wrote:I'm having a hard time understand a few of these responses.

herm, what exactly are you taking Benz as saying in that article?

I am also all in with this team, but some of this stuff for me just can't hurt as much as it used to. Hell even just back 4 years the Bucks getting torched by UF nearly had me in angry drunken tears.

On the back of so many other crushing blows during my "fandom", you just can't crush me like that anymore.

I was onto the next game before game 2 even ended. Game gone, all that mattered was how they show up in game three.

At least some of you here are older than me, and I am about as big a nut about MY teams as anyone here, so I guess I have a hard time understanding how people that went through the Browns/Elway and Cavs/MJ are not fairly hardened sports fans at this point.

It's like some are suffering the same 1st heartbreak pain every time (and now sometimes before it even happens).


I'm a lot more detached about all of it after the Elway/Mesa/Orlando/Etc disappointments. Not so much personally. The shit still hurts horribly when it happens and I go into 'media blackout' mode. I'll also give it a day or two after a tough loss before I post. Just seems to ruffle fewer feathers that way.

But with a series it's just different for me. You take every possession or even every game as a stand-alone situation and you're in big trouble. I thought this series would go six games and the Cavs would win it. That's based on the two teams and it also takes into consideration the fact the Cavs have done this shit all season. Take a quarter or half off against a good team and you're going to pay a price. But it doesn't affect my thoughts on the series as a whole.

If LBJ is affected by the elbow that's clearly a game/season-changer. But I don't think there's any possible way to know that until you see how he and the team responds on Friday to getting their asses handed to them Monday night. They've responded to rough losses all season with good basketball. If they do that again Friday (or even Sunday) and this series is 2-2 coming back here then what's the issue?

It al just reminds me of this: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15910&start=100

They start 0-2 and all hell breaks loose. They lose a playoff game at home against a hated but talented team and all hell breaks loose.

Believe me, I fully understand what this season means. As e0y points out it may mean everything. But even with that it's not encapsulated by one horrible game in the EC Semis.

FWiW I didn't see Gary's article as an attempt to diffuse a potentially bad situation. I saw it as him looking at two separate events and making an observation about how the reactions seem out of whack. We all know in the grand scheme that sports are trivial. Important to us, yes, but still down the list inregard to priorities. I thought it was well-written and provocative. From a journalism standpoint you can't hope for anything more.



I definitlely don't look at this with the finality of some.

I guess its also worth noting that I took an oath of sorts before this season to enjoy this year without worrying about Bron leaving.

I don't why it's worked, but I seriously have not stressed about the summer all year, haven't even given it a though in the playoffs.

Truth is I have no idea whether losing would/would not affect his decision, and if it did/does, I still don't know exactly HOW it would affect his decision.

In the end I have always though he'd stay not to be loyal but because we have presented an extremely difficult to refuse all-in package for him to consider against relatively few other options.

I refuse to go on this Cybil-esque emotional rollercoaster walking on egg shells and swaying with the wind of LBJ's everyword.

Friggin year 2000 hype with this shit, if he goes he goes, and was probably gone before anything you THINK affected his decision actually did so.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby JCoz » Wed May 05, 2010 2:35 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:Not for nothing but more and more I think that when it happens- if it happens- it'll be a team and a time we don't expect. Like, the Browns will sneak into the Playoffs at 9-7 (or 8-7-1) and get hot. Sort of like what almost happened in '97.

Not sure why I think that, really.


I actually agree, if it doesn't happen in the next month and a half, I mean, that's how it happened with the 02 buckeyes.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby hermanfontenot » Wed May 05, 2010 2:38 pm

JCoz wrote:I actually agree, if it doesn't happen in the next month and a half, I mean, that's how it happened with the 02 buckeyes.


That's a Buckeye tradition. None of the three unbeaten NC teams (1954, 1968, 2002) were even picked to win the Big 10 prior to the season, I don't think.

It's the Ohio State teams that are SUPPOSED to win it all (1970, 1998, 2006) that tend to run into trouble in the big games.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby aoxo1 » Wed May 05, 2010 4:51 pm

Had nearly the same thoughts as Herm and e0 after Game 2. Hard to believe if they blow it this year that another chance this good will come around for a loooong time.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby Triple-S » Wed May 05, 2010 5:42 pm

hermanfontenot wrote:Not for nothing but more and more I think that when it happens- if it happens- it'll be a team and a time we don't expect. Like, the Browns will sneak into the Playoffs at 9-7 (or 8-7-1) and get hot. Sort of like what almost happened in '97.

Not sure why I think that, really.


Actually always had the feeling it would be something like that. As much as I enjoy the Cavs, I've been itching to see the Browns get to the playoffs,

Dream scenario would be for them to sneak in and upset a team in the final week (I'm going to say Jacksonville) ala 2002 against the Falcons. upset a team like the Chargers on the road in wildcard weekend, beat the Colts in the division off of some freak of nature play that would make David Tryee think that it would be impossible, and then, who is meeting the Brownies in the AFC Championship game, but Pittsburgh, the Browns get down early, and then work there way out and blow them out of the water in the 3rd and 4th, Jim Nantz hands the trophy to Jammies and Holmgren and all is right with the world again.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed May 05, 2010 6:06 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:Fuck perspective.


Indeed. If I had any perspective, would I really be lurking around this (or any) message board desperately searching for the 2 or 3 coherent thoughts per day while having to wade through countless volumes of crap?

If I had any perspective and wanted to take the Benz approach I would be in church, or praying, or meditating on the tragedies that befall really good people every day.

But I want to cheer for my teams BECAUSE the world is such a shitty place. BECAUSE innocent people who deserve better are gunned down or die in car wrecks or get blown up by IEDs every day. I want the escape.

I'll choose my own perspective, thank you very much. I'll pick my own time to mourn the dead and to give thanks for how fortunate I am. I don't come here to be preached to. I come here to talk sports.

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Re: rack benz

Unread postby e0y2e3 » Wed May 05, 2010 6:08 pm

And matt w/ a "BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!"

I didn't know you still had those in you matt?!
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby FUDU » Wed May 05, 2010 6:12 pm

Lee said it pretty well.

We're sports fans, that is why we visit places like this and that is why we watch. Many of us are basketball fans that have a strong interest in the sport and when you put our local team in the hunt with a local kid that happens to be the best at what he does, it does matter at some level in our lives.

Besides at this point of our Cavalier & Ctown sports lives we are too vested to not give a shit.

I plan on being a one happy SOB if we win it all, I also plan on being one angry SOB if we don't.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby mattvan1 » Wed May 05, 2010 6:23 pm

e0y2e3 wrote:And matt w/ a "BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!"

I didn't know you still had those in you matt?!


Shitty analogy. More like Nicklaus at Agusta in '86. :cheers:

I don't even know Gary - and this is not to pick on him. I like his work.

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Re: rack benz

Unread postby JCoz » Wed May 05, 2010 6:41 pm

I guess this is a very "eye of the beholder" article, I read it again after reading matt's take.

Just really have no clue where you guys (Eo, matt, herm) are coming from RE: the article.

Not saying you are wrong to feel the way you do about that, just that its weird, like I have read a completely different article.

Seems more about his perspective on the news that day rather than what yours should be.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby Ziner » Wed May 05, 2010 7:14 pm

J, I am with you I read the article the same way as you, however I also don't really feel like putting it in perspective. It is his perspective, everyone else has their own. Overall it is in perspective for everyone, no one will be literally be on the 480 bridge (Royal Gorge for me) if the Cavs dont bring it home. However, part of the fun of the playoffs is the ride. The stress after a loss where you get to watch epic melts to the day after a win where nothing can piss you off and you just smile all day. IMO it is fine to ride the roller coaster as long as you acknowledge you are just on a ride. Everyone knows win or lose their life will go on, but if I want to sulk like a baby after a loss like Monday I sure as hell am. If someone else wants to read the obits to make themselves put it in perspective, no hair off my ass.

I just want to have fun, so they better effin win on Friday.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby jb » Wed May 05, 2010 9:30 pm

I've met Gary. Like him as a dude. Respect his writing. But was there anyone confused about whether the Cavs losing equated a car wreck fatality? If so please raise ur hands. Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

I thought not.

Gosh, thanks Dad. That Lifesaver TM sure was tastey.

I'll stop now before I really get my Inner EyeLee on.

Just one guys take & YMMV, but suffice to say Madden that I would cacel out yer vote.
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Re: rack benz

Unread postby gdbenz » Thu May 06, 2010 1:08 pm

I'm enjoying greatly the debate on my column and perspective. I think that the meaning of a column written by anyone, really, including Livingston, is all what you want to take from it. Personally, I'm not into moralizing. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone how they should be a fan. I likewise wouldn't presume to try to tell someone that he/she should get some perspective. It's your life, do what you want.

It just struck me that on a day that I think all Cavs fans felt pretty crappy about the way their team played, including me, on the same front page as the article about that game were articles about the accident in Medina Twp. and Kent State. The extreme of those topics appearing right next to each other was jarring to me. As I read the article about the accident, I temporarily forgot all about the Cavs and just wondered how this family might ever go on. At the same time people were debating the merits of the effort put forth by the Cavs there were neighbors of ours dealing with absolute incomprehensible tragedy.

As I get older, the outcomes of individual games take on less meaning as other things in my life take on more meaning. It's somewhat an outcome of the abject disappointment Clevelanders have felt toward all their professional teams that repeatedly have fallen short. I think though, it's also an outgrowth of the fact that for too long now most of our teams have been so poorly run that it's almost as if they go out of their way to make it difficult to even want to be a fan.

That doesn't mean I have any less interest in the sport itself or how it all plays out. I'm thankful, really, that in Cleveland we at least have teams to debate. But I'm not going to rip the gas pipe off the wall every time one of our teams loses a big game or otherwise falls short. For starters, if that were the case there wouldn't be a gas pipe left in the city anyway. But more importantly, it's just true that life still goes on. There is still work to do and bills to pay.
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