Nets vs. Cavs

[hugerobot]

7 pm fso

[Ziner]

[rebelwithoutaclue]

Get it? Cuz it's not really a trap game...

[RickNashEquilibrium]

Robot is padding stats like SD jacks his post count with Peyton/BQ vitriol.

[Ziner]

I am not taking the fall for starting trap pictures again, mine was directed at hugerobot. However, Rick that is the funniest damn trap picture I have ever seen.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

I am not taking the fall for starting trap pictures again, mine was directed at hugerobot. However, Rick that is the funniest damn trap picture I have ever seen.

I especially enjoyed the censored poop in the bag, as if now we don't know whats in it.

[hugerobot]

i'll have no problem starting the thread for the magic on thursday if eeyore doesn't start it the night before. i'm not scared!

[e0y2e3]

Already laying out excuses, eh huggies?

[hugerobot]

just you wait

[Gradysmanldy]

I refuse to let my first started game thread come any time during a win streak. You don't eff with a streak.

Hopefully my first game thread comes next year sometime.

[CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!]

All this talk about cherry picking had me run the numbers again. It is kinda interesting, hugerobot disappears for the Lakers, Thunder, Grizz - teams that may pose a problem - and magically reappears for the Nets, Wolves, Knicks. Checking each thread, I sensed a pattern...

Updated thread standings through 2/8:
e0y2e3: 6-0
Papa Cass: 3-0
Andrew: 2-0
Cease: 2-0
hugerobot: 12-2
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!: 3-1
AK-ROWDY: 6-3
tired: 1-0
Pup: 1-0
bks92II: 1-0
aoxo1: 1-0
davemandd: 1-0
noles1: 1-0
British_Pharaoh: 1-3
Ziner: 0-1
Larvell Blanks: 0-1

[RickNashEquilibrium]

All this talk about cherry picking had me run the numbers again. It is kinda interesting, hugerobot disappears for the Lakers, Thunder, Grizz - teams that may pose a problem - and magically reappears for the Nets, Wolves, Knicks. Checking each thread, I sensed a pattern...

Updated thread standings through 2/8:
e0y2e3: 6-0
Papa Cass: 3-0
Andrew: 2-0
Cease: 2-0
hugerobot: 12-2
CAVSTRIBEBROWNSin07!: 3-1
AK-ROWDY: 6-3
tired: 1-0
Pup: 1-0
bks92II: 1-0
aoxo1: 1-0
davemandd: 1-0
noles1: 1-0
British_Pharaoh: 1-3
Ziner: 0-1
Larvell Blanks: 0-1

If this post proves anything, its banning BP from the Cavs forum!

J/K Brah!

[OldDawg]

I am not taking the fall for starting trap pictures again, mine was directed at hugerobot. However, Rick that is the funniest damn trap picture I have ever seen.

I especially enjoyed the censored poop in the bag, as if now we don't know whats in it.

I can think of a lot of things my dog would do with that conTRAPtion, but crapping in it isn't one of them. Maybe that would be a concraption.

[Cerebral_DownTime]

Who the hell would put that on their dog?

[hugerobot]

i don't make the threads for the "tougher" games because eye or someone else generally makes them the night before. i have the courtesy to at least wait until the morning of.

fuck it, i'll make the magic thread now!

[OldDawg]

Who the hell would put that on their dog?

Better yet, who would want to take it off?!?!?!

[davemanddd]

I am not taking the fall for starting trap pictures again, mine was directed at hugerobot. However, Rick that is the funniest damn trap picture I have ever seen.

I especially enjoyed the censored poop in the bag, as if now we don't know whats in it.

my eyes!!! my eyes!!!

[Cerebral_DownTime]

What a sloppy 1st quarter. It almost seems like they're toying with the Nets.

[neoleo]

Pretty sure Uncle Austin just said shit on live tv.

Fred was talking about the sound a jammed finger makes on the basketball when AC jumped in.

"That shit hurts."

I rewound it four times and that's what it sounds like at least.

[hermanfontenot]

Cavaliers got their 15 pieces of flair tonight.

[peeker643]

Cavaliers got their 15 pieces of flair tonight.

I bet they were as bored playing that game as I was watching them play it.

Now I'm torn between rooting for a 4 OT game tomorrow night for the Magic in Chicago vs. an easy win that sends them here rested and ready to give me a more accurate gauge of where the Cavs and Magic stand.

In the end, I'm rooting for the 4 OTs and the Cavs burying them. Just out of general principle and working on the theory that you should step on a rival's throat at any opportunity.

[Gradysmanldy]

Cavs wont need 4 OT's with Chicago to bury the magic. They just need Wince to suit up and do his thing.

Wish Mo was healthy enough to exact another round of revenge....he looked pretty gleeful burying them the first time around.

Boring game, but how surprising is the consistent play of Boobie? I expected 50% of his games to be like tonight, and the rest to be clunkers. I'd say 80% of his starts have been surprisingly seamless from Mo....does this affect Browns rotation when he and Delonte are back?

(I should take this to another topic)

[davemanddd]

Cavaliers got their 15 pieces of flair tonight.

they must not have got the memo that we aren't using cover sheets on our tps reports anymore.

[davemanddd]

for the longest time, i have been a firm believer that the cavs really don't need to make a trade to win the nba title this year, especially since they will be getting leon powe, mo williams and delonte west all back from their injuries soon, but after watching tonite's game, now i'm not so sure.

while i can certainly appreciate the concept of "being loyal to a good soldier", but the more i watched big z tonite try to quote "defend" brook lopez while at the same time going an absolutely atrocious 1-for-10 from the field, the more i thought the cavs just need to bite the bullet and deal him and his expiring contract somewhere else for ______________________ (fill in the blank with whatever personnel upgrade that has already been discussed ad nauseum on these boards) just to improve their chances even more for winning the title this year. if the team who trades with them wants to buyout z's contract and let him come back here 30 days later, so be it, but if they don't, i can't say that it will be any great loss.

at this point, loyalty needs to just take a back seat to winning at all costs. we need this title now. like the saying goes, if not now, when??? while i would certainly like to see z be a part of winning that title, if they don't and it's because they stood pat at the trading deadline and somebody else picks up _______________ (fill in the blank) instead which allows that team to go on to win the title then, well then i will just be beside myself and that's just not a pretty position to be in.

during tonite's game broadcast i just had to laugh at one of the segments where fredo mcclunk and uncle austin got some email questions and one of them asked if the cavs would ever have a lineup that had z, shaq and andy on the court all at the same time. thankfully they both agreed that such a lineup would just be too slow and teams would take advantage of that. almost as if on cue then, lopez got a 50-50 ball rebound, spun around z like he was standing in concrete and dunked in the ball. my first thought was "yep, too slow".

come on, danny, make a deal please. i'm mixing my metaphors here but there's nothing like holding all the trump cards, but if someone else still has the right bower, that can always throw a wrench into your quest for a title. just go get the right bower, whoever that may be, while you still can. like veruka salt would say - "i want a title too, daddy, and i want it right now!!!".

[Ea$t $ide]

Cavs gave up offensive rebounds on consecutive possessions in the first quarter and I literally got up and yelled "Grab the F^&*'n ball God D*&% YOU!!!" at the T.V.


My wife does not udnerstand why I do this and frankly neither do I. I think giving up offensive rebounds pi#@!* me off more than anything.

[peeker643]

for the longest time, i have been a firm believer that the cavs really don't need to make a trade to win the nba title this year, especially since they will be getting leon powe, mo williams and delonte west all back from their injuries soon, but after watching tonite's game, now i'm not so sure.

I noticed that soft, tall, perimeter shooter from Indiana had 18points and 16 boards last night.

Asking Price needs to come waaaaay down if reports are to be believed but I'm still looking at Murphy as the target.

[Gradysmanldy]

This Cavs team is going to give up offensive boards and hustle plays to the Nets ilk pretty regularly. It's frustrating to watch, but they just don't have the focus or energy against this level of competition. They are bored, and know that they can give 75% and still win.

Z does look very slow most of the time, but he always has. Quick forwards and centers have given him fits for.....well, ever. I'm fine with him being the 5th big on the team (Behind Shaq, AV, Powe, JJ) in the playoffs. 15-20 mins a night, a few putbacks, and some pick n' pops with Lebron. He has shown his value most when playing Orlando, LA, and Atlanta.....teams that require you to have giants to counter gameplans.

I'm comfortable either way; either Z gets traded for an upgrade at the position (which wouldn't be hard to do) or he stays and provides value. Meh.

[davemanddd]

Cavs gave up offensive rebounds on consecutive possessions in the first quarter and I literally got up and yelled "Grab the F^&*'n ball God D*&% YOU!!!" at the T.V.


My wife does not udnerstand why I do this and frankly neither do I. I think giving up offensive rebounds pi#@!* me off more than anything.

i know what you mean. i hate turnovers after turnovers like when one of the cavs steals the ball from an opponent only to throw it right back to the opposition. the momentary shift back and forth in momentum just kills me.

[papacass]

Cavaliers got their 15 pieces of flair tonight.

they must not have got the memo that we aren't using cover sheets on our tps reports anymore.

15 pieces of flair: IOW, they could be satisfied with the bare minimum.

[Larvell Blanks]

I get worried of what people are expecting from Powe. The guy is coming off a major knee surgery and is going to need to get back in game shape. Add to that, finding his spot on this team and his defensive assignments. I think alot of people are expecting him to be the player he was in Boston before he got hurt last year. I don't think he's going to see alot of court time (5-10 minutes) and is that going to make a difference? I think it was Windy who wrote that he doesn't expect Powe to make a difference THIS year, that he expected a bigger impact from him next year. Maybe he'll prove us wrong but I can't count on him to be what he was in Beantown within the next 4-5 months

[papacass]

The feel I'm getting (no hard evidence from actual sources, just reading the wind direction and relative humidity) is that the Cavs will stand pat.

A few reasons: One, I don't think Ferry wants to part with J.J. Hickson if at all possible. Rightly or wrongly, Hix is greatly valued by the Cavs for his upside. The Cavs need a balance of young players on a roster with some aging players at key positions. Hix might also have more trade value if the Cavs give him another year or two to develop.

Two, the Shaq/Z tag-team formula is working. Both guys are performing at relative high levels, and they're reducing the workload on each other, just like the script said they would. You can bet Shaq is loving the setup, and he doesn't want to see Z go for any length of time.

Three, according to Windy last night on ABAO, there is some doubt as to how well Z would handle a trade. He might be a good sport about it, or he might view it as injury added to insult after the benching incident earlier this season. And there is no guarantee of a buyout if Z is traded. The Cavs can't talk to him about it, or prearrange it with another team, lest the Hand Of Stern smite them from above. And you're talking more along the lines of losing draft picks, not a five-figure slap on the wrist. Stern HATES it when teams try to color outside the lines.

So before we even get to the availability of guys like Jamo and Murphy, there are in-house consequences that need to be addressed in concept before a trade is made. You don't want to create three problems by solving one. That's why, according to Windy, there is a lot of spirited debate going on right now among the Cavs' higher-ups.

[Ea$t $ide]

I get worried of what people are expecting from Powe. The guy is coming off a major knee surgery and is going to need to get back in game shape. Add to that, finding his spot on this team and his defensive assignments. I think alot of people are expecting him to be the player he was in Boston before he got hurt last year. I don't think he's going to see alot of court time (5-10 minutes) and is that going to make a difference? I think it was Windy who wrote that he doesn't expect Powe to make a difference THIS year, that he expected a bigger impact from him next year. Maybe he'll prove us wrong but I can't count on him to be what he was in Beantown within the next 4-5 months

windhorst was on all bets are off last night and said he saw powe in a 4 on 4 in practice and we should not be expecting much from him this year.

[rebelwithoutaclue]

The Cavs can't talk to him about it, or prearrange it with another team, lest the Hand Of Stern smite them from above. And you're talking more along the lines of losing draft picks, not a five-figure slap on the wrist. Stern HATES it when teams try to color outside the lines.

It happens every year. It's just unspoken. Stackhouse spoke of it and the only thing that was done was that he wasn't allowed to be in the trade. No fine. No draft picks taken away. Just don't be stupid about it and a buyout can be arranged.

[papacass]

The Cavs can't talk to him about it, or prearrange it with another team, lest the Hand Of Stern smite them from above. And you're talking more along the lines of losing draft picks, not a five-figure slap on the wrist. Stern HATES it when teams try to color outside the lines.

It happens every year. It's just unspoken. Stackhouse spoke of it and the only thing that was done was that he wasn't allowed to be in the trade. No fine. No draft picks taken away. Just don't be stupid about it and a buyout can be arranged.

Buyouts happen every year. But the buyout-and-return scenario is different. Recently, Antonio McDyess is the only example anywhere similar to the Z scenario that everyone is describing. And that buyout/return was fueled solely by McDyess' steadfast refusal to leave Detroit for Denver. The Pistons really didn't care if they got him back, but McDyess didn't want to leave the life he'd built in Detroit.

In Z's case, the Cavs do want him back. It's one of the worst-kept secrets in the league. So if Z is traded and bought out, Stern will have his dogs sniffing all around for any evidence that there was a wink-nudge agreement among the parties. If they find even a morsel of incriminating information, or can make anyone squeal, Stern Kangaroo Court will be in session faster than you can say "Five minutes 'til Wapner."

Stack's comments plus the Dice situation heightened the NBA's awareness of trade/buyout scenarios, and the potential abuses thereof. I fully expect that the next CBA will do away with the 30-day buyout/re-sign rule. A veteran player that gets traded might not be allowed to play for that team again until the following league calendar year (7/1 to 6/30).

[Hi Oktane]

So if Z is traded and bought out, Stern will have his dogs sniffing all around for any evidence that there was a wink-nudge agreement among the parties. If they find even a morsel of incriminating information, or can make anyone squeal, Stern Kangaroo Court will be in session faster than you can say "Five minutes 'til Wapner."

So be it. Given the loophole, worst they can do is levy a fine, to which TMLP would reply, "So, who do I make this out to?"

[rebelwithoutaclue]

The Cavs can't talk to him about it, or prearrange it with another team, lest the Hand Of Stern smite them from above. And you're talking more along the lines of losing draft picks, not a five-figure slap on the wrist. Stern HATES it when teams try to color outside the lines.

It happens every year. It's just unspoken. Stackhouse spoke of it and the only thing that was done was that he wasn't allowed to be in the trade. No fine. No draft picks taken away. Just don't be stupid about it and a buyout can be arranged.

Buyouts happen every year. But the buyout-and-return scenario is different. Recently, Antonio McDyess is the only example anywhere similar to the Z scenario that everyone is describing. And that buyout/return was fueled solely by McDyess' steadfast refusal to leave Detroit for Denver. The Pistons really didn't care if they got him back, but McDyess didn't want to leave the life he'd built in Detroit.

In Z's case, the Cavs do want him back. It's one of the worst-kept secrets in the league. So if Z is traded and bought out, Stern will have his dogs sniffing all around for any evidence that there was a wink-nudge agreement among the parties. If they find even a morsel of incriminating information, or can make anyone squeal, Stern Kangaroo Court will be in session faster than you can say "Five minutes 'til Wapner."

Stack's comments plus the Dice situation heightened the NBA's awareness of trade/buyout scenarios, and the potential abuses thereof. I fully expect that the next CBA will do away with the 30-day buyout/re-sign rule. A veteran player that gets traded might not be allowed to play for that team again until the following league calendar year (7/1 to 6/30).

It was actually the Gary Payton buyout that ruined it for all. He was traded from the Celtics to the Hawks, bought out immediately, then returned to the Celtics a week later. Because of that the waiting period was changed to 30 days. I just wanted to point out that the precedent has been set and IF the Cavs were found out to be discussing a buyout before a trade, no fines or draft picks would be expected to be taken, just that the present trade would have to be restructured.

[papacass]

So if Z is traded and bought out, Stern will have his dogs sniffing all around for any evidence that there was a wink-nudge agreement among the parties. If they find even a morsel of incriminating information, or can make anyone squeal, Stern Kangaroo Court will be in session faster than you can say "Five minutes 'til Wapner."

So be it. Given the loophole, worst they can do is levy a fine, to which TMLP would reply, "So, who do I make this out to?"

Which is exactly why it probably wouldn't be just a fine. To effectively punish, the recipient of the punishment has to feel ...... well, punished.

I just emphasize that David Stern loves to drill teams for doing things under the table. He took away a half-decade of first-round draft picks from the Timberwolves because Kevin McHale had a handshake contract deal in place with Joe Smith. Some of those draft picks were later reinstated, but the sentiment remains.

If Stern finds out there is any type of wink-nudge agreement in place in advance of a Z trade/buyout, the hammer comes down. Z would be fined and maybe suspended. The team that receives Z might get a fine. But the Cavs, since they are team that benefits the most from acquiring a player and then re-signing Z 30 days later, would likely get the most severe reprimand. Hefty fine, and maybe docked a couple of draft picks in the next few years.

Every party involved could cover their tracks well enough that Stern and his legal eagles don't find anything. But if Team Stern does find any crack in the armor, the Cavs aren't going to white collar resort prison. They're going to federal pound-me-in-the-draft prison.

[papacass]

It was actually the Gary Payton buyout that ruined it for all. He was traded from the Celtics to the Hawks, bought out immediately, then returned to the Celtics a week later. Because of that the waiting period was changed to 30 days. I just wanted to point out that the precedent has been set and IF the Cavs were found out to be discussing a buyout before a trade, no fines or draft picks would be expected to be taken, just that the present trade would have to be restructured.

IOW, the trade would become null and void. Because Z is the Cavs' only major bargaining chip, there are no other options for restructuring a deal. Maybe Wally could save the day like Keith Van Horn did for the Mavs in the J-Kidd deal, but I haven't heard anything about Wally's knee recently. And Wally would need to be able to play some minutes, otherwise Stern would put the kabosh on that deal, too.

There are a number of loopholes, but Stern wields a lot of power, and there are ways he can close loopholes if he thinks they're being abused.

It's kind of like it happens once, he lets it slide. Happens twice, he gets a little more perturbed. Three times, he thinks about doing something. Then the fourth time comes, and he decides to make an example of that team.

[peeker643]

So if Z is traded and bought out, Stern will have his dogs sniffing all around for any evidence that there was a wink-nudge agreement among the parties. If they find even a morsel of incriminating information, or can make anyone squeal, Stern Kangaroo Court will be in session faster than you can say "Five minutes 'til Wapner."

So be it. Given the loophole, worst they can do is levy a fine, to which TMLP would reply, "So, who do I make this out to?"

Which is exactly why it probably wouldn't be just a fine. To effectively punish, the recipient of the punishment has to feel ...... well, punished.

I just emphasize that David Stern loves to drill teams for doing things under the table. He took away a half-decade of first-round draft picks from the Timberwolves because Kevin McHale had a handshake contract deal in place with Joe Smith. Some of those draft picks were later reinstated, but the sentiment remains.

If Stern finds out there is any type of wink-nudge agreement in place in advance of a Z trade/buyout, the hammer comes down. Z would be fined and maybe suspended. The team that receives Z might get a fine. But the Cavs, since they are team that benefits the most from acquiring a player and then re-signing Z 30 days later, would likely get the most severe reprimand. Hefty fine, and maybe docked a couple of draft picks in the next few years.

Every party involved could cover their tracks well enough that Stern and his legal eagles don't find anything. But if Team Stern does find any crack in the armor, the Cavs aren't going to white collar resort prison. They're going to federal pound-me-in-the-draft prison.

C'mon Cass. Relax. Come out from under the bed and uncover your eyes.

These discussions and agreements are business as usual in the NBA and there's not a team nor a deal that gets made that doesn't include such discussions.

They've already taken place.

Much ado about nothing.

They may well stand still but it won't be because of something like this. It will be because teams are holding them hostage in terms of what they're demanding.

As an aside, people are playing a very dangerous game with Hickson. That's a complementary player and not a rising star. Take away LBJ and Shaq and see what's wearing that uniform. Yeah, you need those guys. But if Hickson is part of a deal that brings a more talented complementary player in return that you're an idiot for holding up a deal because of JJ.

[Hi Oktane]

C'mon Cass. Relax. Come out from under the bed and uncover your eyes.

These discussions and agreements are business as usual in the NBA and there's not a team nor a deal that gets made that doesn't include such discussions.

They've already taken place.

Much ado about nothing.

They may well stand still but it won't be because of something like this. It will be because teams are holding them hostage in terms of what they're demanding.

'zactly. If you're Stern, regardless of what you know and can prove, you don't send a message by "taking the finger" of your biggest asset (if you don't have to). Those lessons are to be taught using the Indiana's and LA Clippers' of the assoc. Just sayin'.

[Gradysmanldy]

He's shown "rising star" type ability at times, but I generally agree. I just think that a trade price of "nice young complimentary peice" + salary cap relief + draft picks is ridiculous, and would rather see the Cavs stand pat versus pay that kind of a demand. Even with the low level pick the Cavs could get.

[papacass]

C'mon Cass. Relax. Come out from under the bed and uncover your eyes.

These discussions and agreements are business as usual in the NBA and there's not a team nor a deal that gets made that doesn't include such discussions.

They've already taken place.

Much ado about nothing.

They may well stand still but it won't be because of something like this. It will be because teams are holding them hostage in terms of what they're demanding.

'zactly. If you're Stern, regardless of what you know and can prove, you don't send a message by "taking the finger" of your biggest asset (if you don't have to). Those lessons are to be taught using the Indiana's and LA Clippers' of the assoc. Just sayin'.

All I'm saying is Ferry and Co. need to be really careful about how they handle any Z buyout situation. Just don't give Stern a reason.

And yes, the ramifications of a Z buyout won't scare the Cavs away from making a deal. It will be the demands of the other teams that will kill any trades.

[Cease]

As an aside, people are playing a very dangerous game with Hickson. That's a complementary player and not a rising star. Take away LBJ and Shaq and see what's wearing that uniform. Yeah, you need those guys. But if Hickson is part of a deal that brings a more talented complementary player in return that you're an idiot for holding up a deal because of JJ.

During the Knicks game, a TV commentator relayed that during play David Lee shouted as he went down court: "JJ Hickson has the easiest job in the NBA!" I didn't pick up whether it was a factual quote, or an Uncle Austin attribution of what the guy was thinking.

Either way, it's true. JJ is good and has upside... but let's remember he's playing off LeBron and Shaq- not a bad island to wake up on.

[e0y2e3]

I get worried of what people are expecting from Powe. The guy is coming off a major knee surgery and is going to need to get back in game shape. Add to that, finding his spot on this team and his defensive assignments. I think alot of people are expecting him to be the player he was in Boston before he got hurt last year. I don't think he's going to see alot of court time (5-10 minutes) and is that going to make a difference? I think it was Windy who wrote that he doesn't expect Powe to make a difference THIS year, that he expected a bigger impact from him next year. Maybe he'll prove us wrong but I can't count on him to be what he was in Beantown within the next 4-5 months

Watchu smoking LB?

Guy is coming back from his third major knee surgery, hasn't seen the court in ages, etc... he is going to be a playoff rotation player!

Playoff rotation stud even!

[Gradysmanldy]

KG had his leg STAPLED TOGETHER and people expected him to be productive this year, what do you mean a knee surgery a year ago will keep Powe down?!?

[Larvell Blanks]

Watchu smoking LB?

Guy is coming back from his third major knee surgery, hasn't seen the court in ages, etc... he is going to be a playoff rotation player!

Playoff rotation stud even!

What was I thinking? I better put my Wine and Gold colored glasses back on!