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by e0y2e3 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:12 pm
by peeker643 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:22 pm
e0y2e3 wrote:Per Wojo and will be a hard sale to Ferry as Woj says. Iggy is Lbj junior and would be redundant. Intriguing though. All on Twitter, on phone so someone else can grab quotes.
WojYahooNBA The Cavs have been listening intently to Sixers pitch of Andre Iguodala for several days, sources say. Unclear what Philly wants back. 21 minutes ago from web
WojYahooNBA The Cavs still prefer PF's such as Antawn Jamison and Troy Murphy, but Ferry always listens and thinks hard. Iggy is a tough sell for Cavs.
WojYahooNBA The Sixers are in a tough spot, cause it's very unlikely they can move Brand contract. To get much cap flexibiity, Iggy probably has to go. 10 minutes ago from web
WojYahooNBA In the end, most league execs still believe Cavs ultimately do a deal for a 'stretch 4-man,' who can shoot -- not another SF like Iggy.
by diminishingskills » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:46 pm
by Doc » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:49 pm
by Gradysmanldy » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:51 pm
by e0y2e3 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:15 pm
Gradysmanldy wrote:Iguodala is completely redundant on this team. Would be a SERIOUS waste of any trade chips we have to take him. Pass.
by JJN » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:00 pm
by e0y2e3 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:12 pm
JJN wrote:LeBron can play PF, and Iggy can play SG. Don't see the problem here. Plus, no more Parker missing easy layups. Makes me giddy. He is the wing defender that Mike Brown has wet dreams about. Anyways, Iggy shoots 33% from deep, and that is without people setting him up for wide open shots like he would get here. Think about a lineup of Delonte, Parker/Moon, Iggy, Bron, and Varejao. Not only would Bill Simmons have an reactionary bowel movement, but it would be the best defense to fast break squad in the league bar none, and would give us the best depth and flexibility in our lineups ever (plus someone who can spell LeBron for extended periods of time).I don't see Jamo having the effect on keeping LeBron here that Iggy would. Legit Pippin/Robin potential. Now if you would all excuse me, I have some chloroform and a Dan Ferry mask to purchase.
by JJN » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:38 pm
by aoxo1 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:43 pm
by JJN » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:47 pm
aoxo1 wrote:Plus that gives us 2 of the Hyperizers.
by aoxo1 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:49 pm
by mrburns » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:51 am
by OldDawg » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:58 am
Mr. Burns wrote:I'd rather have Jamison or Amare, but if this is option number three, I wouldn't be opposed to it. With the financial state of the league, the Cavs are in a position to add a really talented player for pennies on the dollar. You can't be sure that opportunity will exist in the future, so I wouldn't shut the door on it just because Iguodala's game is similar to LeBron's. It will be interesting to see if they're looking for anything beyond cap relief.
by diminishingskills » Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:55 am
JJN wrote:Think about a lineup of Delonte, Parker/Moon, Iggy, Bron, and Varejao. Not only would Bill Simmons have an reactionary bowel movement, but it would be the best defense to fast break squad in the league bar none, and would give us the best depth and flexibility in our lineups ever (plus someone who can spell LeBron for extended periods of time).
by e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:12 am
by RickNashEquilibrium » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:47 am
e0y2e3 wrote:DS, plugging him in at the two means nothing about dropping our current roster flexibility (meaning Shaq, Powe, etc).Not sure why you are acting like they are mutually exclusive.And Iggy is a good player on a bad team, sure, that is why him being paid #1 money is the worst thing about his game. Do you not agree that having a real starting 2 and Delonte as your sixth/seventh man makes this team noticeably better?I mean the Pippen comparison from aoxo is pretty spot on. For years now Iggy has been drawing the same comp.But I guess having two wing guys that can pass and crash the boards is a bad thing? I mean if you were on board w/ S-Jax it is silly to not be on board here.But I forgot, you only win titles by trading for 34 year olds and trying to out old the Celtics.Asking for one more player that is an elite athlete and a good basketball player is sacrilege to you though, I forgot.EDIT: and let's not pretend like the Cavs are going to be under the Cap at any point in the next few years. Overpaying is irrelevant to this team.
by diminishingskills » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:53 am
e0y2e3 wrote:DS, plugging him in at the two means nothing about dropping our current roster flexibility (meaning Shaq, Powe, etc).
Not sure why you are acting like they are mutually exclusive ... Do you not agree that having a real starting 2 and Delonte as your sixth/seventh man makes this team noticeably better?
But I guess having two wing guys that can pass and crash the boards is a bad thing? I mean if you were on board w/ S-Jax it is silly to not be on board here.
But I forgot, you only win titles by trading for 34 year olds and trying to out old the Celtics. Asking for one more player that is an elite athlete and a good basketball player is sacrilege to you though, I forgot.
EDIT: and let's not pretend like the Cavs are going to be under the Cap at any point in the next few years. Overpaying is irrelevant to this team.
by ajunior148 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:00 am
by ajunior148 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:05 am
DiminishingSkills wrote:Eye, you're a bright guy, and you know your hoops. I'm not gonna take your bait on getting into a pissing match. But you have the blind spots of a bright kid who plays too much fantasy sports, and who confuses a player's fantasy performance with what he really brings in real life. As well as thinking that having multiple players with the same skill set is better than having players who complement each other.
by Gradysmanldy » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:50 pm
e0y2e3 wrote:This is potentially the biggest overreaction posted on these boards ever. This borders on the "We traded ____ for Jamey Carroll" take from dnosco.
e0y2e3 wrote:Serious waste of trade ammo? A guy who is guaranteed to average 16 5 5 1 and 1 at the bare minimum here? A guy who is a bona-fide perimeter defending stud? A guy w/ no attitude issues? A guy whose biggest knock is that he is paid like "The Man" and he was made to play 2nd fiddle? A guy who, while not a great shooter, would finally give us a bona-fide 2nd threat to take the ball to the hoop? Iggy is LBJ light, having LBJ and LBJ light is never in the history of the association going to be a bad thing.
e0y2e3 wrote:Don't get me wrong, Iggy is not my #1 target nor even my #2 (though an argument can be made in favor of Iggy verses a 32 year old Jamo in regards to the long term) and even though I watch him play a bit (fantasy) I cannot definitively say if he could or could not play the 2 next to LBJ. I don't think Ferry came to the a conclusion on that matter yet either, thus the ongoing discussions and attention he is paying. So unless you have definitive proof Iggy cannot play the 2, well you're missing the boat here.
by rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:24 pm
Last question....if he is LBJ lite....is there no other option for keeping him? Why not dump Dalembert? I understand Brand's contract is killing the team and he is immovable.....but jesus.
by aoxo1 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:39 pm
Gradysmanldy wrote:I'll give you that he is LBJ light. A large part of what makes AI the special player for Philly that he has been is that he HAS the same skillset as LBJ. Large, athletic, passes well, finishes well. And since he wouldn't be handling the ball frequently, at the 2, a lot of those skills go to waste. I don't think he's a guarunteed 16/5/5/1/1 guy here. Points, yes....assists, no. And if you take away his assists, I don't see a large difference in what he provides with Delonte West, who is also a premier perimeter defender, CAN shoot the 3-ball (unlike AI and his .324 career avg) rebounds well, plays in the post, and can run the offense. Also, Delonte is familiar with the Cavs system. He's coming off the bench, but we know he'll be taking the bulk of the minutes in the playoffs.
The difference between the dynasty bulls and this years Cavs is Shaq and Mo. The touches that would go to a "pippen" style second option, on this team, are taken by those two. There are only so many to go around.
If we were just adding him, sure. I'm sure he would provide a quality dynamic to the squad we have; NOT upgrading the power forward position AND sacrificing our backup center and depth at PF would be suicide.
I'm not under the assumption that bringing in a skill set like AI2 WOULDN'T improve the team; I just think that with that price tag, with the cost of the trade assets it would require, and the fact that the Cavs play a game where LBJ/Shaq dominate the ball and require shooters to punish double teams....I just don't think it's the best play. Maybe a little too strong to say it would be the biggest waste of assets ever, just not a play im sure Cleveland is able to make.
by Gradysmanldy » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:57 pm
by e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:04 pm
by Gradysmanldy » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:18 pm
by e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:24 pm
Gradysmanldy wrote:Parker is average, across the board. Maybe average+ on defense. Boobie "specialized" his way to 18 points last night on 50% shooting. Moon is back. Mo is above average and fits the offense. Hot wad is getting 15-18 mins a night. Despite how you evaluate them, there's a glut of bodies that are getting paid and have gotten this team to where it is right now.You're missing my point. Guard is not the problem on this team. Until/unless Powe gets active and Delonte actually GOES postal, the biggest need on the team is a PF, not a 14M$ per SF that sometimes plays SG.I'm done beating this horse. If Ferry traded for AI, i'd be ecstatic that the Cavs brought in a marquee player and hope he turns out to be the next Pippen, and hope that we didn't lose too much flexibility and front court depth in the process. My personal preference is that he grab one of the (hopefully) available PF's and works it from there.
by e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:43 pm
DiminishingSkills wrote:e0y2e3 wrote:DS, plugging him in at the two means nothing about dropping our current roster flexibility (meaning Shaq, Powe, etc).You sure about that? You really think Philly is going to give up its lone good/marketable player for cap relief?
Because to a large degree they are. Iggy has logged some minutes at SG, but he is a SF. Bron has logged some minutes at PF, but he too is a SF. Playing guys out of position in order to cram more raw talent onto the team almost never works.You know that I am not an AP fan. And yes, I'm on board with upgrading the team whenever possible. I was actually pretty pissed when Philly took Iggy just before the Cavs' pick in 2004. (Would have been even more pissed had I known that five minutes later, they were going to blow that selection on LuJack.) But if you want a shooting guard, then get a fucking shooting guard. Not a slashing SF masquerading as a SG. And don't blow your limited trading chips on a guy who is just not a good fit on your roster.
Eye, you're a bright guy, and you know your hoops. I'm not gonna take your bait on getting into a pissing match. But you have the blind spots of a bright kid who plays too much fantasy sports, and who confuses a player's fantasy performance with what he really brings in real life. As well as thinking that having multiple players with the same skill set is better than having players who complement each other. (In case you haven't watched the last week, it's been a 38 year old Shaq who has saved the Cavs' bacon. Take away his interior scoring, and the Cavs lose at least two of the last three games, maybe all three.) I say these things descriptively rather than confrontationally. I know where you're coming from, because I used to have the same blind spots myself, when I was around your age. Your view will mature in time as well, I expect. Not today necessarily, but a few years will pass, and you'll notice that the teams with a good blend of skills -- and yes, a good amount of experience -- are always the ones spraying champagne on each other in June. Always. (It kind of reminds me of an old business saying: when a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with the experience ends up with the money, and the man with the money ends up with the experience.)Your method wins regular season games. Mine wins rings. I know which approach I prefer.
From a cap perspective, yes. From a luxury tax perspective, no. If Iggy is overpaid at $12-13 million a season, then what is he at an effective $24-26 million per year? The luxury tax line is much, much more significant than the salary cap.
by pup » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:48 pm
e0y2e3 wrote:We are overloaded at guard?
by e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:51 pm
Pup wrote:e0y2e3 wrote:We are overloaded at guard?If the Browns are overloaded at linebacker, I got not problem believing the Cavs are overloaded at guard.
by Gradysmanldy » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:35 pm
Although I don't see how bringing in a 34 year old whose game could drop off the face of the earth at any time now is much safer than bringing in a young well rounded two who is playing a little bit out of his traditional position. Nor do I see how bringing in a PF this year whose entire game centers around dunking is going to be a great addition w/ Shaq when they already failed together. Not to mention the reports out of Phoenix (for like the 8th time) are the Amare is causing locker room problems and that is one of the core reasons he may hit the market.
by rebelwithoutaclue » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:57 pm
All this talk has made me terrified about what happens with the front court of this team if we add Igoudala's salary after this year when our Salary figure is about 61M......without only AV/Hickson. Z and Shaq off the books, and no money to sign a quality big man. (provided Lebron re-signs and everyone else stays)
by Gradysmanldy » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:28 pm
by e0y2e3 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:33 pm
by Zé Apelido » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:55 pm
by DrPoove » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:21 am
by e0y2e3 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:35 am
DrPoove wrote:FWIWPer Windy today on trading for Iggy:Doesn't make sense because:He's a SF, not an SG, because he's not a great shooter.He at his best when, and needs to, dominate the ball.He's got 4 years left on his deal and the Cavs don't like that lack of flexibility.http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/01/brian_windhorst_talks_cavalier_16.html
by e0y2e3 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:23 pm
by SDM » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:04 pm
by SDM » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:02 am
by e0y2e3 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:37 am
SDM wrote:we still want himhttp://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... p_yet.html
by Orenthal » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:30 pm
by papacass » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:39 pm
Orenthal wrote:Agree with Windy there will be an adjustment period. Iggy is not a player that will just sit on the three point line watching LeBron. He has the game we thought we were getting with Laura. Will the Cavaliers adjust to fit his slashing style, or does his game become a Lite version as he is forced to adjust more to our style.
by Orenthal » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:01 pm
by e0y2e3 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:38 pm
Papa Cass wrote:Orenthal wrote:Agree with Windy there will be an adjustment period. Iggy is not a player that will just sit on the three point line watching LeBron. He has the game we thought we were getting with Laura. Will the Cavaliers adjust to fit his slashing style, or does his game become a Lite version as he is forced to adjust more to our style.The latter. LeIso is so thoroughly ingrained into LeBron at this point, I'm pretty well convinced that the only type of player that could kill it is a veteran and/or all-star caliber PG. Jason Kidd could probably take the ball and dictate the offense to LeBron. CP3 could probably do it. But Andre Iguodala is not going to cause LBJ to adjust his approach to offense. And the coaching staff, for all their begging, pleading and cajoling, won't be able to either.
by peeker643 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:11 pm
by Frank Duffy » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:18 pm
by peeker643 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:31 pm
Frank Duffy wrote:Well Peeks, that Bird/Z news is really useful info. I won't ask your source, but I assume coming from you that it's solid. And yeah, if Murphy's numbers really would translate to a good team, he does seem the better fit.And Eye, good to see you didn't sprain a thumb screeding me last night.
by papacass » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:27 pm
Peeker643 wrote:Legitimately I think the options are Murphy or Jamison.Bottom line is I think Murphy is the right fit for a lot reasons.He scores 7 less a game but aside from that he shoots a better % from all over the floor, rebounds more and dishes out more assists than Jamison. Not just for this year: for his career.He's 5 years younger anfd has done a pretty solid job despite the shit teams he's played on.
by peeker643 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:33 pm
Papa Cass wrote:Murphy is also 6'-11". Adding him would essentially be like adding another 7-footer to the roster. And he does possess the ability to play inside a bit. The fact that he does average nearly 10 RPG means that he's not just going to camp out on the perimeter and completely avoid contact, at least at the defensive end.Jamison is certainly a more skilled player than Murphy, but given how matchup-heavy playoff basketball is, I'm not going to turn my nose up at a 240-pound 7-footer who can at least make himself tall and challenge shots in the lane. Against teams like the Celtics and Lakers, who rely heavily on creating mismatches by throwing multipe 7-footers out there, a playoff rotation of Shaq (7'-1"), Murphy (6'-11"), Andy (6'-10") and Z (7'-3") could do wonders for diluting those mismatches and throwing the opposition for a loop. I think that's especially true in the case of the Lakers. If they can't mystify the other team with their 7-foot smorgasbord of Gasol, Bynum and Odom, they really don't have a lot of other answers -- at least beyond Kobe going off for 50 points.
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