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Anthony Parker

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Anthony Parker

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:05 pm

Let's argue some about Anthony Parker.

This morning was the most recent blasting of Anthony Parker's starting minutes....in a long line of h8ters.

http://www.clevelandfrowns.com/2010/01/ ... under.html
The Cavs need a two-guard just as much as they need a stretch 4. We knew Anthony Parker was a nice bench option when we signed him, and he’s done nothing this year to change that perception. You don’t want to go to war in the playoffs with such limited productivity at the 2.


AP's stats:

FG. 2.6
FGA 5.8
FG% .446
eFG% .567
Ast'd 88% (wow)
Blk'd 4%
FTM .6
Pts 7.2
3 pt. %: .463

This is a take i've seen regularly, and I must admit....I couldn't disagree more.

In this blogger's humble opinion, Anthony Parker is a great starter for 3 reasons:

1. He can be productive without being a volume scorer. He scores enough to keep his man semi-honest, especially knowing that giving him space behind the arc is a big no-no.

2. He doesn't need the ball. He's a veteran, knows his role, and is happy with his limited touches.

3. He plays inspired defense. He crashes screens, chests up, and plays the kind of defense that a "premier" perimeter defender doesn't always play. He doesn't defend with his hands, he defends with his feet.

I feel like AP fits well with the first unit because there are only so many shots to go around. Bron is going to take his share, Shaq needs the ball in the post to get going, you'd like to see Hickson get the ball on the move towards the basket because that is when he's most effective, and Mo generally gets his. Adding another high-volume scorer to the starting unit is unnecessary, IMHO, because it will take away shots from one of the previous group. A 4-star PF? Different story, because that opens the court for the rest. (And think of all the possessions that wont end with Hickson fumbling a pass out of bounds! )

If you take AP and place him on the second unit, he doesn't benefit from having Bron/Mo/Shaq feeding him open looks. He doesn't seem to create well off the dribble, and becomes a bigger version of Boobie. There's no denying that he can bang the open look ALL DAY. (And yes, Ey, I know most NBA players can. Years of Donyell, Amon Ones, and Hughes convinced me that it's not as common as you would think, and doesn't usually come with ++ defense)

Delonte can thrive and power the second unit because he's comfortable with the crew (AV, Z) and because he can CREATE, which is a skillset the Cavs somewhat lack. There's enough firepower in the first unit w/o a dominant scorer at the 2.

Many folks have pointed to stats like 5-man unit efficiency and pointed out that the Cavs are better with AP/Hickson on the bench, but I think that's a wonky statistic. I'll point back to the chemistry issues at the beginning of the year and folks getting used to roles....and I agree with the posters who believe that the best player at the position isn't necessarily the guy who needs to start the game.

My .02$.
Just my take. This seems to be a polarizing issue, so let's discuss.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby Hi Oktane » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:15 pm

If your point is he's a grinder, ok. That said, I like AP a bit more than Pup likes Andy.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby peeker643 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:17 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:My .02$.
Just my take. This seems to be a polarizing issue, so let's discuss.


All relative to me. The cost difference between 'good enough' and 'better' being a big consideration.

I'm fine with Parker on this particular team because of many of the reasons you mentioned. I think he's been disappointing compared to the buzz he created in camp but not to the point where a change is in order.

As to polarizing issues? They're all polarizing issues here. Someone argues that Parker is good enough and does enough to stay on the floor and the first Parker detractor will label that poor bastard a Parker loving-honk. In turn he'll be a hater.

It goes on and on.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby diminishingskills » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:36 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:In this blogger's humble opinion, Anthony Parker is a great starter for 3 reasons:

1. He can be productive without being a volume scorer. He scores enough to keep his man semi-honest, especially knowing that giving him space behind the arc is a big no-no.

2. He doesn't need the ball. He's a veteran, knows his role, and is happy with his limited touches.

3. He plays inspired defense. He crashes screens, chests up, and plays the kind of defense that a "premier" perimeter defender doesn't always play. He doesn't defend with his hands, he defends with his feet.


Meh. I touched on this in last week's GBS (or was it the week before? They all blend together after a while. Let's call it a recent GBS). I think that your reasons are of that nonspecific, nonquantifiable flavor that supporters will use when the specific, quantifiable reasons don't look so hot. And I think you'd have to agree, AP's stats from last season to this season are like the measurements of a couch potato being trained by Jillian Michaels: the numbers are down everywhere. Points, rebounds, assists, steals, even free throw percentage ... you name it, it's down.

Only his three point FG% is up. That said, I think the idea of AP as a three-point scorer is a bit specious. Yes, his percentage is very good this season ... but it seems to me he's good from exactly two spots behind the arc: the two corners. IOW, I don't see him as a true three-point threat. Make sure he doesn't drift off to the corner by himself, and his three-point threat is mostly neutralized.

(Anybody have a good source of shot charts by player? I am willing to be proven wrong if the data show that he actually does connect on quite a few three-pointers from the rest of the arc.)

As for defense ... well, he is taller than Delonte or Boobie, I'll give him that. I'm not convinced he's that much better a defender. He seems to me to be a step slow ... kind of like most other 34 year old, 220 pound SGs.

AP does seem like a stand-up guy, and the kind of teammate who I'd want to play with and live with for seven months out of the year. And I don't discount those attributes. I'm just not convinced that those positives make up for what I see as some pretty poor performances, numbers-wise.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:38 pm

Although I'd like someone better than Parker, he's still a starter on a 34-11 team that just happens to be the best in the league.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:45 pm

Reminds me of a similar type of player. (older, 3-ball from the corner, gritty defense): Bruce Bowen. Another guy who depended on others to create for him, played stiff defense, and worked in a system where the other scorers on the floor took precedence.

His totals are down, but percentages are up/about the same. He isn't included as an option on offense, so he defers to the primary scorers.

I don't think he's great, mind you. Just think he's exactly what I expected, and I'm pleased that he's starting and leaving the more dynamic players (Delonte) to take the majority of the shots with the second unit.

I guess it comes down to expectations; I don't expect big numbers from any starter outside of Mo and Bron; I expect the rest of the guys to know their roles, contribute with their minimum touches, and flow with the offense. (When it flows and doesn't sputter into LeIso)

I'm also a shameless homer for the the fact that our second unit is essentially last years 66 game winning starting unit. Cleveland hasn't had a bench in the last 6 years of the Lebron era that is capable of outscoring another team's bench consistently. And the group this year is nasty.

I'm not even sure why this is the issue that keeps coming up. If we don't win a championship this year, it won't be because of the lack of production from AP in the starting 5.

EDIT: Couldn't find a stupid shot chart. I agree that it seems 50-75% of his 3-balls come from the side pockets, with the rest about mid-way between the top of the key and the left corner. Same corner that Delonte hid in frequently last year, and Donyell threw bricks from when he was here. Likely partially a result of the offensive "system" vs. any personal preference for that area.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby papacass » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:22 pm

AP obviously isn't a starter per se. But he starts because, at least in Roker's opinion, at 6'-6" he's a better matchup size-wise with most other starting SGs.

Redz is the best SG on this team, and if he hadn't had his emotional problems at the outset of camp, he'd probably still be starting there. Moon also logs minutes at the two-spot.

So it's not necessarily that SG is an area of weakness for the Cavs. It's not like it's AP and all downhill from there. AP is probably the third-best SG on the team behind Redz and Moon, but he starts because A) he has prototypical SG dimensions and B) that's the way the Jell-O set when Redz was out for the entire preseason.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby davemanddd » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:23 pm

i still can't help but wonder what if delonte had not got his rambo on last summer, would we even be talking about this??? doubt it as redz would still be the starter and ap would be the guy coming off the bench to spell him and provide the catch-and-shoot offense from off the bench like what orlando got from mickael pietrus in last year's playoffs. am i wrong about this???
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:26 am

There was some discussion before redz went crazy.....saying AP should start and Redz come off the bench because Delonte has better handles and can run the second unit offense, wheras AP is a spot up shooter that generally needs someone to create for him.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:20 am

Gradysmanldy wrote:There was some discussion before redz went crazy.....saying AP should start and Redz come off the bench because Delonte has better handles and can run the second unit offense, wheras AP is a spot up shooter that generally needs someone to create for him.

That makes perfect sense to me

It's kind of an Eric Snow situation with AP
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby Gradysmanldy » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:23 am

Made me shudder just reading that and remembering the actual "Eric Snow Situation"

Ugh. I cringed every time he checked in.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby British_Pharaoh » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:44 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote:Made me shudder just reading that and remembering the actual "Eric Snow Situation"

Ugh. I cringed every time he checked in.


I loved the SNOWman

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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby scott » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:59 pm

Gradysmanldy wrote: ++ defense


Gradysmanldy wrote:gritty defense): Bruce Bowen


I know he came in with this reputation, somewhat, but watching the games I just don't see it.

Something about his size, skin color and the way he moves about to court, earlier this year I'd glance up and think for a second that Alexsandr (with last year's man tan) had sneaked onto the court in his old uni. A comparison to Pavs is never a good thing for an NBA player.

Parker is a below avg defender who happens to have better height than our other options is what my eyes tell me. He is a one trick pony and DS is right, that one trick is even limited to 2 spots on the floor.
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Re: Anthony Parker

Unread postby neoleo » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:44 pm

scott wrote:
Gradysmanldy wrote: ++ defense


Gradysmanldy wrote:gritty defense): Bruce Bowen


I know he came in with this reputation, somewhat, but watching the games I just don't see it.

Something about his size, skin color and the way he moves about to court, earlier this year I'd glance up and think for a second that Alexsandr (with last year's man tan) had sneaked onto the court in his old uni. A comparison to Pavs is never a good thing for an NBA player.

Parker is a below avg defender who happens to have better height than our other options is what my eyes tell me. He is a one trick pony and DS is right, that one trick is even limited to 2 spots on the floor.


Although I agree that he hasn't lived up to his reputation of being a very good defender, he's still nowhere near as bad as Pavs. If nothing else, he's stronger and he tries harder. At the absolute worst, I'd say he's average, and that's still better than any other option we had last year because D West's above average perimeter defense comes in a 6'3" body.

And I also disagree with the idea going on in this thread that AP can only shoot it from the corners. I think it has more to do with the design of the offense than it does with his preference. Besides the corner threes being the closest to the hoop (thus making it smarter to shoot from there), with the design of the offense having LeBron initiate from the top or the wing, the only open three automatically comes from the corner once LBJ drives.
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